What does a sugar daddy really get out of sugaring someone? I know sex is typically involved, but aside from that what else would you get? Doesn't it ever bother you knowing the girl is playing pretend just so she can get a paycheck from you every month? I can't imagine paying thousands every month just for that.
It's not necessarily thousands. If you read the sugaring forum on reddit people talk about 200-500 per meet being pretty normal. A lot of guys on here have talked about $300 being a very realistic number. So that isn't really more than what a lot of guys spend in the club.
I have considered it, at the $200-250 per meet range that is something l could afford weekly (and all I want is LDKs) and for that I would probably be able to get 3-5 hours of time including a fun activity (hike, movie, museum), lunch/dinner, and an orgasm at a hotel. If I remember correctly that $250 amount was what you were giving you ATF to hang with her at the SC. Wouldn't you rather do that OTC and do some fun activities with her?
Past that unlike the SC I would argue that sugar babies are way less "pretend" than strippers. If you read the sugaring forum it seems that finding genuine connection is really important to both sides of the arrangement.
I guess the one other thing is that in many cases you can find a sugar baby where each of you are going to be exclusive to the other. That is WAY different than anything else in the stripper/sex worker world.
I was a sugar momma for a bit. It was rewarding in it's own way, but it ended badly and I won't do it again. Too many other great options get me the same results without all that SB drama.
Have not. But it is something I'm considering when I have access to my retirement funds in about six years.
If I do it, it would be pay per session, maybe 2-4 times a month. Not even sure if I'd want intercourse, to be honest. More interested in some form of GFE and maybe oral (giving and receiving).
This much I am certain: It would be discrete, private encounters at my home or a hotel. I would not want to be seen in public accompanied by a woman 30-40 years younger than me. I know some older guys look at that as a badge of honor and an ego stroke, but I'd feel uncomfortable standing out in a crowd like that.
-->"What does a sugar daddy really get out of sugaring someone? I know sex is typically involved, but aside from that what else would you get? Doesn't it ever bother you knowing the girl is playing pretend just so she can get a paycheck from you every month? I can't imagine paying thousands every month just for that."
From what I can tell, much of what you think you know about sugaring is wrong. Who told you it's thousands a month? It can be, but not everyone is paying that. Why, for example, do you think it's any more expensive than typical great OTC? And, in that case, why aren't you questioning OTC?
At my peak, I juggled 5 SBs. I'm in a small town market, so offering $100 a week will have girls jumping all over it (literally). Plus, there's lots of single moms that are just lonely and use SA to meet people and get some help. I've had legit FWB situations develop from SBs. Hell, my current girlfriend started as an SB. She's got cancer and was looking for someone to help with some bills. I taught her about managing debt, we connected hardcore, and recently made the decision that this shit isn't just an arrangement anymore, its what we want for our lives for the foreseeable future. Her only stipulation is cut out the SBs (I can keep the FWBs though which is sweet).
So, to answer your question, what do we get? Sometimes just a physical connection. Sometimes a new friend. Sometimes something even more than that. Though, I'm not even 30, so my view is understandably skewed.
Sounds to me like Vanta has some judgemental issues, why do you ask a question and answer it with the next one ? If you were an adult you wouldn’t be so smug, and realize there are many shades of gray, in between black and white.
-->"I only know it based off what I've read online. I haven't met any real life sugar babies/daddies"
Ah, ok ... I dunno, when I don't understand something, I ask what it's like, I don't ask contrived questions about made-up assertions. But that's just me. Anyway, easy then - the reason you're confused about it is because you don't understand it. Learning about sugaring by reading online articles is like learning about strip clubbing by reading those "how to behave in an strip club" articles in Cosmo.
-->"In a traditional sd/sb arrangement, the girl is not a professional sex worker. So you can find girls who are less mechanical."
So, to pick a nit -- by definition, an SB is a professional sex worker. But the spirit of what you're saying stands... differences with other professional sex workers (these things don't apply to the more escort-like girls B.Ho is finding and juice is pretending to find on SA):
1. Unlike an AMP, escort, stripper in an extras club, she won't be fucking 4 other guys per day (she may, of course, have other SDs and be fucking guys in her personal life)
2. She's a woman who would often would never have chosen professional sex work, if not for the existence of arrangements. This impacts me less since I tend to drift towards wild party girls anyway (not always, but often), but for guys preferring smart college girls, etc., they have options they'd never have.
3. She hand picks her SD, and often will reject many before picking one. On the reddit sub, the standard advice experienced SBs give to new SBs is "expect to spend weeks or months finding a good SD, don't get frustrated if it takes that long".
Arrangements are all over the map, from relatively disconnected "hotel-only" arrangements, to arrangements where there's lots of more engagement. The fact is, the way I've treated my ATFs -- long (sometimes overnight) OTCs, social media entanglement, frequent texting, etc. -- is somewhat indistinguishable to me from the arrangements I've found.
I expect none of this to be appealing to guys who don't even like OTC, or want a more escort-like all-business completely-transactional experience.
-->"But the real question of the day is, with these girls, calling themselves professional sugar babies, aren't they really sex workers ?"
They are, and they know it and acknowledge it. The only place where there's a belief that SBs are in denial over this, is in non-arrangement forums, where it's just something guys like to believe.
*** I should say, I'm sure there are newbie SBs who are in denial over this -- in fact, this suspension of disbelief is what allows them to take that step into sugaring in the first place. But IME, they all eventually get there
I've ragged on the SDs quite a bit because it has always seemed to me that they delude themselves into thinking it is different than P4P sex.
Maybe this has been brought up in the past, but it is the first time I have internalized it.
Subra brings up a good point in identifying a difference in the dynamic. Unlike an escort, the SB decides who she will and who she won't build a relationship with. Like with a stripper OTC. If you make the cut, the experience would likely be better than with an escort.
The tone of the poster and the OP is a bit judgemental! I agree there. When I read about something new, I tried to learn about it with an open mind, read all I can within reason, so that I have facts and people experiences to base whether or not it would interest me to try it for myself. Then when I try it, I see if I found value for the time and $$$ spent.
I did the same when guys were suggesting $500(+) visits were ideal. I tried it a few times. I see what they say, you do get treated better, but it's not for me at this point in my life. The value isn't there. Too rich for my blood and budget. But I won't make a blanket statements about it nor be judgemental about it.
I did the same when guys were suggesting (favorites) CFs, ATFs, or regular & frequent visits (like once a month or once a week). I even tried it 3 times within 10 days of each other. Again, I can see what they are saying. You build rapport and the dancer(s) respond(s) in kind. But, it's just not for me. The value for time and $$$ isn't there. Not right now in my life. I won't make a blanket statements about it nor be judgemental about it. Just rather, I gathered information made an informed decision to try it, tried it, then reflected that it wasn't for me. I left it at that.
Where I am at today isn't where I am going to be in the future. Things always change.
For me, strip club have never been a substitute for real world relationships with women. It's always a supplement, much smaller in time and $$$ commitment than real life. It's much more fulfilling that way. That's just me. I've never felt compelled to try as escort, sb, or a prostitute. The value for me is not there but for other guys who want no strings access to hot women (main or on the side), I totally get it! I just can't make blanket statements about it. That's too judgemental.
“But the real question of the day is, with these girls, calling themselves professional sugar babies, aren't they really sex workers ?”
I’d say so. There are some who fully acknowledge themselves as sex workers.
But there’s a lot who are also in denial about being sex workers. And they want to think of themselves better than escorts, strippers, etc (Which to me indicates some amount of self-delusion and insecurity. At a level even worse than strippers)
As long as a sugar baby genuinely likes her sugar daddies, then it would be something more preferable over other kinds of sex work. But this requires a female who naturally prefers older men anyways.
But there are many others who are not. And those types I just think to myself wtf?
One of my peers has a S/B. He spends about $4,000 a month on her. His position is that he works 70 hours a week and has no time to romance anyone, nor the inclination to get involved again as he is 14 months out of a 22 year marriage and his youngest kid is 19. He added up his estimates of what it would cost to date, without guarantee of sex and it came to about half of what he spends. His position is that he gets sex, with a pretty, much younger woman, whom he will never commit to and can dump when he wants and replace her. He grossed about 850,000 last year so to him 48,000 is about 12,000 for the rest of us and damn cheap imo. I would never consider it because I'd rather have dinner with my and go skiing than fuck a young woman.
The biggest problem with S/Bs is when one of the parties to the relationship starts catching feelings, it happens on both ends and the end result is always complicated.
True 25 and that's the way it oftentimes is with friends with benefits as well. I feel lucky in that my heart hasn't been available to anyone other than my wife for almost 30 years which is probably why I can enjoy the hobby no matter what, if anything, happens. There's a lot to be said for having a beer, watching JBJ hit a grand slam, while you watch young, naked women.
^Had a married friend who had more money than brains. Started a sugar relationship with a dancer, gave her all kinds of attention and money, his marriage fell apart wife left with half of everything plus the house, and the absolute worst part is he is now estranged from his children because of how he treated their mother. To me that is worse than the money.
@twenty five- good point on the catching feelings. The fact that SBs commonly catch feelings for their SD is something that seems not too uncommon which is totally unlike other forms of paid sexual entertainment.
If you read the sugaring forum it seems pretty well split between catching feelings one way versus the other. Maybe less guys post there? A lot of guys who like being SDs enjoy being a provider and I don't think care about stopping paying. Paying gives them power.
I think you're over thinking it. Either you just innately enjoy it or you don't. Otherwise what do you get out of any of it, like OTC? I like hot, young women, too. It's just another option in the sex industry. If clubs around here didn't do it for me, I check out something else. Usually guys are pretty simple.
I'm not judging people that participate in sugaring. Sorry if it looked like I was being judgemental. I don't have anything against people that partake in it. I was just curious as to what it really is like. Like I said before, I don't know much about it and I guess I just have false assumptions regarding it
I like to live vicariously through them. It's fun to read about people who spend $3K to $4K a month on sugar babies or strippers. That's like what I used to make (gross/net). They must be having fun. Me, I sit at the tip rail.
As for strippers, etc. I stopped worrying about if they like me, what they think of me, or "Doesn't it ever bother you knowing the girl is playing pretend just so she can get a paycheck from you every month?" Nah. I worry about my own enjoyment. I only worry what I wife thinks of me and my relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
You guys are just describing p4p and not s sugar relationship.
What is the difference??
In a Sugar relationship you are investing in someone. You take care of some of her expenses, you help her with keeping up her appearance, or it could be helping with her education expenses or investing in a business she’s been dreaming of starting, or you take care of her travel so she can join you on a trip. You are helping someone in ways besides just paying for their time or their pussy.
When you guys are saying you have a sugar relationship and you pay $200-250 per week, no, you just have a regular p4p meetup. Nothing wrong with that.
Sugar relationships are more like dating. You take care of your baby so she can impress when you are out, whether that is accompanying you to a business meeting (you helped with her education expenses, she’s smart and your associates admire and appreciate her joining you), or on vacation (you’re a simple guy and you want everyone to see how hot your partner is while you’re at the pool, you helped her get a gym membership and helped with some attractive body modifications, etc., because you like the attention). You spend time together and get to know one another and you help her to improve her life and eventually maintain a lifestyle that suits and meshes with yours.
These relationships aren’t for everyone, also not every girl has the same list of needs. But just saying, what you guys are describing here is p4p.
I feel like sugaring is just another segment of the sex industry. I hear a lot of other girls though when complaining about financial issues say "I need to get a sugar daddy." So sugaring seems like a form of prostitution that appeals more to girls who wouldn't normally see themselves as sex workers even though they both involve money and sex.
@Pinksugardoll - I would agree with what you are saying if you modify one thing. Every time you say "sugar relationship" change it to "traditional sugar relationship".
Past that pinksugardoll, I would honestly expect you to be someone who could absolutely command a much higher allowance than a 20 year old girl next door type. So I am not surprised that you would consider some of the numbers quoted here on the low side.
I think just like with the strip club, there are Kia Soul sugar babies and then there are F type Jags. I think these relationships are symbiotic, the best ones last with the proper negotiation/discussion and maybe what I would want and need for it to work for me is different than what the Kia Soul needs. Lol.
But I wasn’t saying that it means you spend thousands per week, just means you are helping out more than just p4p’ing, and maybe for a younger girl she just needs help paying her rent, etc.
That narrow definition of traditional doesn't match what's actually going on. To the extent it's worth getting philosophical, I think escorting is substantially about the sex-for-money transaction. What makes sugaring different is that the sex for money transaction may be what frames it, but experiences and emotional connection are important (to the point where they can make or break an arrangement where the sex-for-money part was acceptable). Some SBs and SDs want more or less experiences and emotional connection, but this feels like the main difference, the importance of other factors beyond sex-for-money -- and it can manifest itself in much different ways than described above as "traditional".
Obviously, as I said before, the way B.Ho used SA, and juice pretended to use SA, are a completely different model, that I don't consider sugaring, but just "getting escort-like transactions on SA"
I think that might be a sugaring relationship for guys with 9 figures net worth. Paying $10K/mo to keep up her lifestyle, spa, paying for boob job surgeries, plastic surgery, a life of leisure for her. I don't think it's normal because there isn't a lot of guys with that net worth running around.
@25, I think a mistress is even the NEXT level. Mistress to me is *wife*status* where you spend as much as you would on a wife. But she's still the other woman. Buy her a house, car, vacations, fund her retirement, etc.
-->"I think that might be a sugaring relationship for guys with 9 figures net worth. Paying $10K/mo to keep up her lifestyle, spa, paying for boob job surgeries, plastic surgery, a life of leisure for her. I don't think it's normal because there isn't a lot of guys with that net worth running around. "
on the reddit sub, they call a SD who pays even $5k/month a unicorn -- at the very least, $5k represents an upper tier of allowance. Obviously, there are guys out there paying $10k+, but very very few. the vast majority of sugaring goes on at well under $5k, it appears
@Dominic77 Actually that is what PSD was describing wife status not a sugar baby, the definition of sugar baby is open to interpretation, but the way she described it it isn't anything like sugaring which in general terms implies a quid pro quo, where the description as she put it implies an obligation, and sorry but just getting a bit of pussy one or two nights a week ain't worth all that.
Isn't reddit mostly millennials or guys under 36? Probably not a lot of 8-9 figure guys there as it takes time to generate wealth. I do agree that First, there isn't enough high net worth guys to go around. Second, you'd need a guy with high net worth who either isn't married, has an agreement with the wife, or is able to and willing to hide a sugar baby. Third, he's actually want to do this instead of just get a civvie GF. The Venn diagram of those guys has to be a very small intersection.
There *are* men who are willing to pay high allowances. From what I heard, they are generally married and have little free time. And also have high incomes and net worth.
Earlier in the thread, I mocked sugar babying. But that being said, there are some who are damn good at it. Think of for example whoever Dadillac’s ex SB is. She obviously fucked up, but it does happen.
I would bet just as many people hit the lottery, as there are girls, that get $10,000 allowances, from sugar daddies. Dream on girls, you might be the lucky winner of a Powerball jackpot too. But there are people that think Pretty Woman, is based on a true story, trust me it's based on the fairy tale Cinderella.
This is delusional thinking, at it's finest.
-->"Isn't reddit mostly millennials or guys under 36?"
In general, I imagine. Hell, some subs seem to be all jr highschoolers lol. But completely different with the sugar sub, seems about split between SBs (many of whom are very experienced) and typical-aged SDs (that is, 40s, 50s, 60s, very few younger men). Or, in other words, the sub and places like letstalksugar are much better places to get info than articles, or "I have a friend who says". I peek in on it every few weeks, it reflects accurately a lot of my first-hand experiences, too, not that I have a ton having just done this a few years, but that seems to be a few years longer than many of the people giving opinions (hey, it's tuscl lol).
-->"The Venn diagram of those guys has to be a very small intersection."
Ya, agree. Not that it doesn't happen, but just like the "no sex" arrangements that you always read about in articles, the $10k/month club is not very big
I’m not saying I’m the type to snag onto a sugar daddy. I one time even got an initial offer without even trying and I completely blew it, lol.
But men *do* pay these allowances. In a lot of ways, it’s not even a financially foolish decision necessarily (as long as they have the income for it)
Let’s say SD+SB meet up twice a week. One of those days, they hang out for four hours. Another one, five hours and sleep together over night.
That’s 17 hours in a week.
Trying to pull that off with a $300/hr escort would be $5100 just for the week alone. And escorts like to do things such as require condoms, which sugar babies *don’t*
These men usually don’t go around “shopping” for these sugar babies either. The sugar babies usually come up to them.
For sure. Just very few (at least as a % of total number of SDs).
And yes, absolutely agree that one of the many advantages of both sugaring and OTC over escorts, is because by-the-hour pricing is not affordable if you want to spend a lot of hours. I've been saying that for years -- total price for OTC might (sometimes) be more expensive than an escort, but considering my ATFs often spend many hours (and even overnights) for that price, rate-wise it can be an order of magnitude less expensive. Sugaring exactly the same way.
My rough calculation, I would think a guy could support a $5,000 per month SB indefinitely if he makes about $300k per year and he has an otherwise somewhat modest lifestyle. There are a lot of those guys out there.
Most successful men, aren't going to pay out this kind of money to a lazy entitled woman, that for all intents and purposes is just a mooch, I've had my share of women approach me, but truthfully the woman that I spend big dollars of needs to bring just as much to the table, by being there for me, in a positive way, as I do with my lifestyle.
Just for the record spending 17 hours a week with me isn't gonna cut it, in order to get me interested in her, she needs to have a lot more going for her than just looking good, looking good may be how it starts, but there needs to be more, or I'm gonna get bored pretty quick.
That's me. I got those from StripperWeb. Anytime I see "17hours a week" I'm reminded of them on there mentioning $60K/yr doesn't cut it for her beauty upkeep and life a leisure so they throw out $120K/yr. I don't know if a number of guys pay that or not. Or maybe it's more shit they just make up over there.
I used to follow sugar baby stuff before my first tumblr account got deleted somehow. These women weren’t exactly lazy. They put in a lot of effort into their appearance (more than a stripper would have to), and keep up with their SD conversation wise. There was even advice I saw about cuddling him, and taking the time to give him small gifts, and other girlfriend like things.
And the reason for those hours is because these men have busy lives and are married. You could maybe even swap out the word “sugar baby” for mistress.
Just thinking about all this makes me personally cringe, however. If I was willing to fuck a customer, it would be a straight hourly rate in cash only for me.
I think the redditt sugar forum is just like SA and the real world where the SB's (or want to be SB's) outnumber the SD's greatly. It's also long been said that the number of people reading an internet forum is 10x the number of regular contributors. I think the women who consistently contribute to redditt's sugar lifestyle group are probably among the most successful at it. But there are constantly new women posting to complain that they can't find a SD or that it took forever to find one. The successful one's on redditt also seem likely to have multiple partners and a background in other type of sex work like camming and stripping.
One thing I have been looking at when seeing allowances on the sugaring forum is what is rent in that geographical area. For a weekly arrangement an allowance equaling a normal rent payment for that area seems pretty reasonable, and helps explain some differences in what numbers people report.
@nicespice - those SBs on tumblr sound like the higher end of the market, also how long ago was this?
@pinksugardoll - I have no doubt you could easily find someone to give you $5k a month. Especially if you can find guys in the SC. Even on SA the amount of SBs who are in your age range with your body type are super rare, compared to 18-22yos. The only counter points I would make are:
1) the competition is totally unlike the SC, there are 20 girls to guys in my area, if you restrict it to guys that are looking for long term arrangements that number is probably more like 50:1
2) the "Kia" end of the range on SA are millenials that have been hooking up for free on tinder and consider any cash a bonus
@PaulDrake - you're spot on about the rent as allowance. In my area, rent is between 300-500 a month (or less if she has roommates, and most do in a college town). Tell a college girl you'll pay her rent and buy her booze, and she gets very very happy. You're also spot on about the girl to guy ratio. There was a point where I could set up a different date every night of the week and still stay within my budget.
If I lived in a big city though, I seriously doubt that would be feasible. But here, I can easily meet women hotter than any of the dancers within 3 hours of me.
-->"I think the redditt sugar forum is just like SA and the real world where the SB's (or want to be SB's) outnumber the SD's greatly. It's also long been said that the number of people reading an internet forum is 10x the number of regular contributors. I think the women who consistently contribute to redditt's sugar lifestyle group are probably among the most successful at it"
Agree, it is a high quality forum with excellent information. I consider most of the tumblrs specious
@Titus23 - I think I mistyped what I meant. I meant that for a weekly meeting to pay a monthly cost equal to renting an apartment seems like a starting point (on the low end). If you are paying a girls rent each week then yeah she is going to be very very happy.
Pulling up your area (kansas city, mo) I don't see much for rent under $500. So lets say $800 is a better starting point for rent then $200 a week would be a low but not cheapskate offer.
I'm actually over near K-State. Manhattan and Junction City. Rent around here is about 1K for a 4-5 bedroom place, but the sorority girls all get together and share. And almost all of them it seems, are on SA. JC is much cheaper too.
And yah, I'm definitely not paying rent every week, but if I offer a monthly allowance that covers their rent, and on top of that, we travel, shop, drink, eat, etc.. Most girls are cool with that.
@nicespice
What escort costs $5,100 for one evening and one overnight? The hourly rate usually goes down for multiple hours and the overnight is a flat rate usually less than 5x the hourly rate. No John is going to pay an escort to literally sleep. Also most Johns spend their time with escorts doing sexual acts or foreplay/afterplay. Not hanging out or eating dinner or freaking shopping. Apples and oranges...
Paul Drake, thank you for the compliments, I am flattered, truthfully. :D
Nicespice, agree with you. SBs work very hard. They have to constantly market themselves and are like salespeople in a way, networking with potential SDs who may never amount to anything. I’m saying the same thing as you, $3-6k, I think it’s out there and not too hard to find.
I also think the cost of living does correlate with potential arrangement price tag. I live in Seattle, we have the #1 economy in the US for close to 2 years now. We are having a population boom. I live in a suburb where the rent has increased the most over this time compared to anywhere else in the northwest (I read an article about it, it’s documebted), and I can’t find a place to move (with a garage) that’s less than $1800. Believe me, I have been TRYING. So if cost of living correlated to what an arrangement could cost, maybe that’s why my idea of a “traditional” sugar relationship is different than some of you guys.
I would also say that the girls making the most are not posting on reddit, etc., but interacting in groups where only other SWers are allowed.
I'm not going to bother to sift through all the comments above but I've used SA for over five years now and it's my preferred way of meeting women.
Each relationship is different --the terms, the expectations, and the cost. The advantages, especially if you find a good partner far outweigh escorts, dancers, or if you travel like I do trying to meet women directly.
I date where I live. I "sugar" where I travel to, especially in areas I visit on a regular basis.
I wish I could post pictures of my last SA girl. I did locate her Instagram page. She's 20, 5' 4", about 110lbs, long silky blonde hair to her waist, tight body and 10/10 ass. She goes to a local private school pre-pharmacy major.
--> "The fact is, the way I've treated my ATFs -- long (sometimes overnight) OTCs, social media entanglement, frequent texting, etc. -- is somewhat indistinguishable to me from the arrangements I've found. "
I had one ATF that was about to become SB4 bit then she went and got greedy on me.
SB6 was another ATF that I thought would be more attracted to an arrangement than to random OTCs, and while she did indeed have an easier time of mentally accepting being a SB, her level of commitment to the SR never got past "hot GF" stage ("I'm hot, so I'll show up or be ready to be picked up when I damn well feel like it.")
current SGF is wonderful; truly more like a GF than a sex worker, and we pick out strippers together to OTC with us :-)
@nicespice --> "And escorts like to do things such as require condoms, which sugar babies *don’t*"
you haven't seen the Reddit sugar sub if you think SBs don't use condoms. they will crucify, tar and feather, and burn at the stake any guy who even mentions the possibility of having sex without a condom
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Either that or sugar babies are more educated and classy. One of those two.
I have considered it, at the $200-250 per meet range that is something l could afford weekly (and all I want is LDKs) and for that I would probably be able to get 3-5 hours of time including a fun activity (hike, movie, museum), lunch/dinner, and an orgasm at a hotel. If I remember correctly that $250 amount was what you were giving you ATF to hang with her at the SC. Wouldn't you rather do that OTC and do some fun activities with her?
Past that unlike the SC I would argue that sugar babies are way less "pretend" than strippers. If you read the sugaring forum it seems that finding genuine connection is really important to both sides of the arrangement.
If I do it, it would be pay per session, maybe 2-4 times a month. Not even sure if I'd want intercourse, to be honest. More interested in some form of GFE and maybe oral (giving and receiving).
This much I am certain: It would be discrete, private encounters at my home or a hotel. I would not want to be seen in public accompanied by a woman 30-40 years younger than me. I know some older guys look at that as a badge of honor and an ego stroke, but I'd feel uncomfortable standing out in a crowd like that.
From what I can tell, much of what you think you know about sugaring is wrong. Who told you it's thousands a month? It can be, but not everyone is paying that. Why, for example, do you think it's any more expensive than typical great OTC? And, in that case, why aren't you questioning OTC?
It's just another fun option in the sex industry.
So, to answer your question, what do we get? Sometimes just a physical connection. Sometimes a new friend. Sometimes something even more than that. Though, I'm not even 30, so my view is understandably skewed.
Ah, ok ... I dunno, when I don't understand something, I ask what it's like, I don't ask contrived questions about made-up assertions. But that's just me. Anyway, easy then - the reason you're confused about it is because you don't understand it. Learning about sugaring by reading online articles is like learning about strip clubbing by reading those "how to behave in an strip club" articles in Cosmo.
In a traditional sd/sb arrangement, the girl is not a professional sex worker. So you can find girls who are less mechanical.
You get to fuck a sweet piece of ass!
Its more of a relationship, as you might provide her with a monthly allowance.
You get to fuck a hot young woman!
You get to think not everyone is fucking your girl.
You get to fuck a hot girl!
You don’t need to hit a strip club to get otc - or search sketchy sites for whores.
You fuck a younger woman!
So, to pick a nit -- by definition, an SB is a professional sex worker. But the spirit of what you're saying stands... differences with other professional sex workers (these things don't apply to the more escort-like girls B.Ho is finding and juice is pretending to find on SA):
1. Unlike an AMP, escort, stripper in an extras club, she won't be fucking 4 other guys per day (she may, of course, have other SDs and be fucking guys in her personal life)
2. She's a woman who would often would never have chosen professional sex work, if not for the existence of arrangements. This impacts me less since I tend to drift towards wild party girls anyway (not always, but often), but for guys preferring smart college girls, etc., they have options they'd never have.
3. She hand picks her SD, and often will reject many before picking one. On the reddit sub, the standard advice experienced SBs give to new SBs is "expect to spend weeks or months finding a good SD, don't get frustrated if it takes that long".
Arrangements are all over the map, from relatively disconnected "hotel-only" arrangements, to arrangements where there's lots of more engagement. The fact is, the way I've treated my ATFs -- long (sometimes overnight) OTCs, social media entanglement, frequent texting, etc. -- is somewhat indistinguishable to me from the arrangements I've found.
I expect none of this to be appealing to guys who don't even like OTC, or want a more escort-like all-business completely-transactional experience.
They are, and they know it and acknowledge it. The only place where there's a belief that SBs are in denial over this, is in non-arrangement forums, where it's just something guys like to believe.
*** I should say, I'm sure there are newbie SBs who are in denial over this -- in fact, this suspension of disbelief is what allows them to take that step into sugaring in the first place. But IME, they all eventually get there
Maybe this has been brought up in the past, but it is the first time I have internalized it.
Subra brings up a good point in identifying a difference in the dynamic. Unlike an escort, the SB decides who she will and who she won't build a relationship with. Like with a stripper OTC. If you make the cut, the experience would likely be better than with an escort.
I did the same when guys were suggesting $500(+) visits were ideal. I tried it a few times. I see what they say, you do get treated better, but it's not for me at this point in my life. The value isn't there. Too rich for my blood and budget. But I won't make a blanket statements about it nor be judgemental about it.
I did the same when guys were suggesting (favorites) CFs, ATFs, or regular & frequent visits (like once a month or once a week). I even tried it 3 times within 10 days of each other. Again, I can see what they are saying. You build rapport and the dancer(s) respond(s) in kind. But, it's just not for me. The value for time and $$$ isn't there. Not right now in my life. I won't make a blanket statements about it nor be judgemental about it. Just rather, I gathered information made an informed decision to try it, tried it, then reflected that it wasn't for me. I left it at that.
Where I am at today isn't where I am going to be in the future. Things always change.
For me, strip club have never been a substitute for real world relationships with women. It's always a supplement, much smaller in time and $$$ commitment than real life. It's much more fulfilling that way. That's just me. I've never felt compelled to try as escort, sb, or a prostitute. The value for me is not there but for other guys who want no strings access to hot women (main or on the side), I totally get it! I just can't make blanket statements about it. That's too judgemental.
I’d say so. There are some who fully acknowledge themselves as sex workers.
But there’s a lot who are also in denial about being sex workers. And they want to think of themselves better than escorts, strippers, etc (Which to me indicates some amount of self-delusion and insecurity. At a level even worse than strippers)
As long as a sugar baby genuinely likes her sugar daddies, then it would be something more preferable over other kinds of sex work. But this requires a female who naturally prefers older men anyways.
But there are many others who are not. And those types I just think to myself wtf?
She gets feelings for the consistent $$$ or the relationship would continue without the payments.
I think you're over thinking it. Either you just innately enjoy it or you don't. Otherwise what do you get out of any of it, like OTC? I like hot, young women, too. It's just another option in the sex industry. If clubs around here didn't do it for me, I check out something else. Usually guys are pretty simple.
We like you too but speak up if you have something to say !
Why?
The sex is out of this world awesome.
She’s seriously non-demanding.
She knows I’m attached and not inclined to change that.
I love her.
You might want to try to avoid that last one...
As for strippers, etc. I stopped worrying about if they like me, what they think of me, or "Doesn't it ever bother you knowing the girl is playing pretend just so she can get a paycheck from you every month?" Nah. I worry about my own enjoyment. I only worry what I wife thinks of me and my relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Which part?
What is the difference??
In a Sugar relationship you are investing in someone. You take care of some of her expenses, you help her with keeping up her appearance, or it could be helping with her education expenses or investing in a business she’s been dreaming of starting, or you take care of her travel so she can join you on a trip. You are helping someone in ways besides just paying for their time or their pussy.
When you guys are saying you have a sugar relationship and you pay $200-250 per week, no, you just have a regular p4p meetup. Nothing wrong with that.
Sugar relationships are more like dating. You take care of your baby so she can impress when you are out, whether that is accompanying you to a business meeting (you helped with her education expenses, she’s smart and your associates admire and appreciate her joining you), or on vacation (you’re a simple guy and you want everyone to see how hot your partner is while you’re at the pool, you helped her get a gym membership and helped with some attractive body modifications, etc., because you like the attention). You spend time together and get to know one another and you help her to improve her life and eventually maintain a lifestyle that suits and meshes with yours.
These relationships aren’t for everyone, also not every girl has the same list of needs. But just saying, what you guys are describing here is p4p.
A sugar baby is a sex worker.
Past that pinksugardoll, I would honestly expect you to be someone who could absolutely command a much higher allowance than a 20 year old girl next door type. So I am not surprised that you would consider some of the numbers quoted here on the low side.
I think just like with the strip club, there are Kia Soul sugar babies and then there are F type Jags. I think these relationships are symbiotic, the best ones last with the proper negotiation/discussion and maybe what I would want and need for it to work for me is different than what the Kia Soul needs. Lol.
But I wasn’t saying that it means you spend thousands per week, just means you are helping out more than just p4p’ing, and maybe for a younger girl she just needs help paying her rent, etc.
He's a trendsetter.
Obviously, as I said before, the way B.Ho used SA, and juice pretended to use SA, are a completely different model, that I don't consider sugaring, but just "getting escort-like transactions on SA"
@25, I think a mistress is even the NEXT level. Mistress to me is *wife*status* where you spend as much as you would on a wife. But she's still the other woman. Buy her a house, car, vacations, fund her retirement, etc.
on the reddit sub, they call a SD who pays even $5k/month a unicorn -- at the very least, $5k represents an upper tier of allowance. Obviously, there are guys out there paying $10k+, but very very few. the vast majority of sugaring goes on at well under $5k, it appears
I think it wouldn’t be too hard to grab a SD at that amount, personally.
Earlier in the thread, I mocked sugar babying. But that being said, there are some who are damn good at it. Think of for example whoever Dadillac’s ex SB is. She obviously fucked up, but it does happen.
This is delusional thinking, at it's finest.
In general, I imagine. Hell, some subs seem to be all jr highschoolers lol. But completely different with the sugar sub, seems about split between SBs (many of whom are very experienced) and typical-aged SDs (that is, 40s, 50s, 60s, very few younger men). Or, in other words, the sub and places like letstalksugar are much better places to get info than articles, or "I have a friend who says". I peek in on it every few weeks, it reflects accurately a lot of my first-hand experiences, too, not that I have a ton having just done this a few years, but that seems to be a few years longer than many of the people giving opinions (hey, it's tuscl lol).
-->"The Venn diagram of those guys has to be a very small intersection."
Ya, agree. Not that it doesn't happen, but just like the "no sex" arrangements that you always read about in articles, the $10k/month club is not very big
But men *do* pay these allowances. In a lot of ways, it’s not even a financially foolish decision necessarily (as long as they have the income for it)
Let’s say SD+SB meet up twice a week. One of those days, they hang out for four hours. Another one, five hours and sleep together over night.
That’s 17 hours in a week.
Trying to pull that off with a $300/hr escort would be $5100 just for the week alone. And escorts like to do things such as require condoms, which sugar babies *don’t*
These men usually don’t go around “shopping” for these sugar babies either. The sugar babies usually come up to them.
For sure. Just very few (at least as a % of total number of SDs).
And yes, absolutely agree that one of the many advantages of both sugaring and OTC over escorts, is because by-the-hour pricing is not affordable if you want to spend a lot of hours. I've been saying that for years -- total price for OTC might (sometimes) be more expensive than an escort, but considering my ATFs often spend many hours (and even overnights) for that price, rate-wise it can be an order of magnitude less expensive. Sugaring exactly the same way.
Just for the record spending 17 hours a week with me isn't gonna cut it, in order to get me interested in her, she needs to have a lot more going for her than just looking good, looking good may be how it starts, but there needs to be more, or I'm gonna get bored pretty quick.
And the reason for those hours is because these men have busy lives and are married. You could maybe even swap out the word “sugar baby” for mistress.
Just thinking about all this makes me personally cringe, however. If I was willing to fuck a customer, it would be a straight hourly rate in cash only for me.
@nicespice - those SBs on tumblr sound like the higher end of the market, also how long ago was this?
@pinksugardoll - I have no doubt you could easily find someone to give you $5k a month. Especially if you can find guys in the SC. Even on SA the amount of SBs who are in your age range with your body type are super rare, compared to 18-22yos. The only counter points I would make are:
1) the competition is totally unlike the SC, there are 20 girls to guys in my area, if you restrict it to guys that are looking for long term arrangements that number is probably more like 50:1
2) the "Kia" end of the range on SA are millenials that have been hooking up for free on tinder and consider any cash a bonus
Here is the sugaring forum: https://www.reddit.com/r/sugarlifestylef…
If I lived in a big city though, I seriously doubt that would be feasible. But here, I can easily meet women hotter than any of the dancers within 3 hours of me.
Agree, it is a high quality forum with excellent information. I consider most of the tumblrs specious
Pulling up your area (kansas city, mo) I don't see much for rent under $500. So lets say $800 is a better starting point for rent then $200 a week would be a low but not cheapskate offer.
And yah, I'm definitely not paying rent every week, but if I offer a monthly allowance that covers their rent, and on top of that, we travel, shop, drink, eat, etc.. Most girls are cool with that.
What escort costs $5,100 for one evening and one overnight? The hourly rate usually goes down for multiple hours and the overnight is a flat rate usually less than 5x the hourly rate. No John is going to pay an escort to literally sleep. Also most Johns spend their time with escorts doing sexual acts or foreplay/afterplay. Not hanging out or eating dinner or freaking shopping. Apples and oranges...
Paul Drake, thank you for the compliments, I am flattered, truthfully. :D
Nicespice, agree with you. SBs work very hard. They have to constantly market themselves and are like salespeople in a way, networking with potential SDs who may never amount to anything. I’m saying the same thing as you, $3-6k, I think it’s out there and not too hard to find.
I also think the cost of living does correlate with potential arrangement price tag. I live in Seattle, we have the #1 economy in the US for close to 2 years now. We are having a population boom. I live in a suburb where the rent has increased the most over this time compared to anywhere else in the northwest (I read an article about it, it’s documebted), and I can’t find a place to move (with a garage) that’s less than $1800. Believe me, I have been TRYING. So if cost of living correlated to what an arrangement could cost, maybe that’s why my idea of a “traditional” sugar relationship is different than some of you guys.
I would also say that the girls making the most are not posting on reddit, etc., but interacting in groups where only other SWers are allowed.
Each relationship is different --the terms, the expectations, and the cost. The advantages, especially if you find a good partner far outweigh escorts, dancers, or if you travel like I do trying to meet women directly.
I date where I live. I "sugar" where I travel to, especially in areas I visit on a regular basis.
Good point. I didn’t think of that. Would 2k be a more realistic number then for the week?
I wish I could post pictures of my last SA girl. I did locate her Instagram page. She's 20, 5' 4", about 110lbs, long silky blonde hair to her waist, tight body and 10/10 ass. She goes to a local private school pre-pharmacy major.
;-)
I had one ATF that was about to become SB4 bit then she went and got greedy on me.
SB6 was another ATF that I thought would be more attracted to an arrangement than to random OTCs, and while she did indeed have an easier time of mentally accepting being a SB, her level of commitment to the SR never got past "hot GF" stage ("I'm hot, so I'll show up or be ready to be picked up when I damn well feel like it.")
current SGF is wonderful; truly more like a GF than a sex worker, and we pick out strippers together to OTC with us :-)
The female readers of the main sugar sub outnumber the men by at least 10 to 1, judging by the vote movement on posts and comments.
you haven't seen the Reddit sugar sub if you think SBs don't use condoms. they will crucify, tar and feather, and burn at the stake any guy who even mentions the possibility of having sex without a condom
"they call a SD who pays even $5k/month a unicorn -- at the very least"
Cost by itself isn't the issue as the value received.