What is a fair OTC price anyways?

88 comments

• twentyfive

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  5 years ago

  Well how about describing a shift of six or seven hours where you’ve had 100% of your time compensated at the rate for a lap dance Might happen but I’ll bet it’s rare.
• doctorevil

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  5 years ago

  25 took the words out of my mouth, and I think you actually made the point yourself NiceSpice. A lot of a dancer’s time is spent hustling up dances, so the effective hourly rate is much lower. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a guaranteed payment without having to hustle? I still say $300 is a fair price and most of the dancers I have encountered think so to. In some markets, they are VERY happy with that.
• RTP

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  5 years ago

  Nice, your math is flawed as you can't assume that $20 per dance equates to $343 per hour in floor dances. That assumes that you would be continuously dancing which never happens. You have downtime, time to wreck the shitter, etc. My guess is that the rate is more like half that. I do agree with most of the rest of your thoughts but in the end, this is basic economics. ITC and OTC are worth what the PL is willing to pay. A dancer has any right to charge whatever she feels is the correct compensation, but that will never mean that the PL does not feel she is charging to much for what she offers or that he will be willing to pay more for what he can get elsewhere for less.
• Lovelyeast

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  5 years ago

  When I escorted my rate was $500 per hr. Now that I’m a dancer I don’t even entertain OTC offers because I am aware my price will be declined. Men are funny creatures they will pay more money in a club or getting an escort than they will getting a stripper out of the club. Everything you’ve stated make sense but a person is gonna do what they feel like doing.
• doctorevil

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  5 years ago

  I don’t want to sound crude, but hey, I’m on TUSCL, so why not? When you’ve been playing the OTC game often enough and long enough, you know there is a market rate for stripper pussy. It varies by locale and type of club, and obviously by dancer, but it’s there. In my experience, it’s around $200-$300. Some girls want more, sometimes a lot more, very few will take less.
• edgewise

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  5 years ago

  Missing from these calculations is the tip out for an hour of working at the club vs $0 tip out no matter how long the OTC Also for OTC the PL has to pay for the room (usually) which adds to his total out-of-pocket expense. When seeing a gal incall the room has already been paid for.
• FishHawk

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  5 years ago

  A lot depends on the market, in some parts of the country an upscale export can easily get upwards of $500 per hour. In other areas $300 might be tops. In all markets there are options around $200 or even less, but that experience will generally not be as GFE. More of a bang and go. That being said, even the high-end escorts will give you a reduced price for multiple hours. If you were to consider OTC, why not go for the high-end market. You might not get as much OTC business but that business may be more rewarding. It’s supply and demand like anything else we do in life. You have to set your price at a point that the amount of business you get meets your financial goals.
• FishHawk

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  5 years ago

  That should be escort not export. Oops.
• WillMunny

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  5 years ago

  As several previous posters have noted, there are some flaws in the assumption that the price of a dance (or VIP time) can be directly compared to an hourly rate OTC. The concept is similar to the difference in any regular business between billing rate and salary. If for example a company charges $300/hour for my time, that doesn't mean my salary will be $600,000/year. In reality I would only make a fraction of that because the company is also covering overhead and other "hidden" costs (office rent, taxes, salary for non-billable employees, etc). In the club scenario let's say for discussion I'm paying $10/song (roughly $200/hour) for the dance plus a fully stocked bar, music by a live DJ, wait staff/bartender, bouncer, and a variety of dancers being there for me to choose from. If you consider a VIP at, let's say hypothetically $250/30 minutes - so $500/hour for one-on-one private time with the dancer of choice, all those external amenities are still part of the experience, so it's not the same as OTC for $500/hour unless if the dancer is providing her own music, drinks, and bringing a couple of hot friends for "warm up" time. As previously noted, there's also the reality that in practice a dancer isn't making her highest possible income 100% of a shift. The best hustlers can struggle to sell dances when the club is slow, much less VIPs. And even in a packed club with a bunch of free spenders, it takes time to approach a new customer, make conversation/share drinks, and close a sale. As for screening, in effect this is a mutual process between dancers and customers by meeting ITC. Thus many dancers only offer OTC after one or more ITC meetings - and countless more use that line as a hustle to keep a PL coming back and spending, with no intention of OTC ever actually happening. To get back to the root of the OP's question, ultimately you have to balance what you think is a fair price for your level of quality and services with what the market demand will support. I once knew a dancer that had decided her price was $1000/hour, and stood firm on that number in part because of similar, flawed arithmetic relative to the price of a VIP at her club. There were times she would finish a "good" shift with a net profit well under $500, but somehow she felt entitled to much more OTC. If she had just been willing to accept something more reasonable (but still above "market rate") she could have made much more money, but as it was she was left struggling between rare occasions when someone was rich (or foolish) enough to meet her asking price.
• twentyfive

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  5 years ago

  One principle of business that never changes, is your time is only worth what someone else is willing to pay, that’s known as perceived value, and it’s possible to alter that,, but one minute has a value that once lost can never be regained.
• Lovelyeast

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  5 years ago

  I agree with twenty five. But at the end of the day whatever price you make someone is willing to pay and whatever price as customer wishes to pay some dancer will accept. It is what it is no need for mathematics
• FishHawk

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  5 years ago

  Bharlem81 said it best. And that’s what makes life interesting.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  As I often post, dancers and customers have different agendas w.rt. the SC game, if not diametrically-opposed agendas, so thinking that they will see eye-to-eye w.r.t. SCing (mileage, costs, etc) has usually proven to be a fool's errand. @spice is thinking the way a typical dancer would think - which is what she is, a dancer - custies are not gonna think like dancers thus will not view things the same way. At the end of the day things work themselves out and there are dancers that view the OTC going-rate as worth it to them and some that see it as some kinda premium-service requiring a premium-price; whereas for experienced OTCers they see it mostly an extension of the ITC experience.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  @ spice's economic analysis is similar to Chris Rock's "what's the price for one rib" 🙂
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  It's analogous to buying rice. If a small 1-lb bag of rice is $3; one can extrapolate that a 20# bag should then be $60
• doctorevil

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  5 years ago

  Damn Papi, that was racist.
• RandomMember

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  5 years ago

  I didn't see any mention of the extra danger these dancers take, leaving the club with some lunatic. Add $200 for the added risk.
• twentyfive

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  5 years ago

  @Doc & Papi I thought papis statement was ricist
• Call.Me.Ishmael

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  5 years ago

  I think there's some level of fibbing when guys here brag about getting all-night GFE for $200 from smokeshow dancer. So... there's that. But here's some other points to consider. I've said before that the big differences between a well-reviewed escort and a stripper is that escorts are generally (a) on time, (b) more reliable about what they offer, (c) better at communicating, and (d) better about knowing their market worth. Meaning, they're literally more professional. So, if you look at escorts in the Boston market, the better-looking escorts start at about $400 / hour. $500 to $600 / hour is not uncommon. And it goes up from there. But a lot of guys here don't like escorts because they are too transactional and too business-like. They also don't like paying a premium for the predictability. Also, the better escorts tend to require *a lot* of personal screening data before seeing you. Dancers, on the other hand, make a lot of decisions on the fly (and sometimes out of pure desperation) and seem to be willing to take less money in exchange for an immediate influx of cash. Ultimately, dancers do charge less than the going rate for comparable escorts, but I also think that some of the low price claims made here are fanciful. Of course, everything above is broad brush srrokes. Exceptions abound.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  One thing about dancers & OTC is that is is a way to further cultivate & maintain a regular where not only is she getting extra guaranteed OTC income often on her day off or when she doesn't feel like going into the club; but she'll likely also have him spending ITC on her at least to some extent.
• dancewdcpa

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  5 years ago

  Papi beat me to it... my most successful OTC is when they are not working or at a time different than their scheduled shift. Many good points by many good posters here but for my favorites it is not either/or as you think Nicespice...it can be income to the dancer for both... All about timing!
• rickdugan

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  5 years ago

  ===> "A song is, on average, 3.5 minutes. And dances are $20/ song. 60 divided by 3.5 times 20 equals ~$343 hourly in floor dances. Anybody with any sort of basic pride in her job imo should be starting at $500 bare minimum and not setting it up to make lapdances look like a rip off. " I couldn't agree more nice. If you can reliably make $300+ per hour ITC on a consistent basis, then why would you entertain OTC offers at all? Shit, you'd probably be one of the top earning strippers in the country with no real motivation to have sex for money at almost any price, unless some guy truly lost his mind. Of course we know that this is not realistic and that LDs and VIPs are often very difficult to sell. So comparing unsold dances at a mostly un-achievable 100% utilization to bird-in-the hand OTC money is an apples to oranges comparison. But with all of that said, I'll never tell a girl what her time or body is worth. All I can tell her is what I'm willing to pay. Either it's worthwhile to her or its not. And if enough hot girls turn down my offer, then the market has spoken and I know that I may need to raise it. If enough hot girls find the amount amendable, then I know I'm at the right spot for me.
• twentyfive

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  5 years ago

  @CMI there may be some level of fibbing but remember some of these guys have regular relationships with the girls they’re seeing outside and often there’s dinner drinks and lots of other shit going on besides just sex
• Call.Me.Ishmael

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  5 years ago

  Fair point.
• nicespice

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  5 years ago

  Interesting points. Oh and btw I hope the tone of the OP isn’t coming off as too harsh. I don’t want to come across as an IceyLoco or anything. And if the prices are being closed fair and square without ghb, then there’s nothing wrong with that. ->“Men are funny creatures they will pay more money in a club or getting an escort than they will getting a stripper out of the club.” That is a very good point I haven’t thought of. I guess those bottles of champage really are enticing at the time 😂 Also good point about perception of OTC as inherently part of the experience vs a premium service. That probably is the main thing. For me, I would lump it into the second category. Also relates to why I don’t care if $343/hr is unrealistic. It’s like asking for a discount on a Louis Vuitton bag because I’m not selling enough Fossil purses or something. Also my want for consistency has before also affected me in the opposite direction as well. In a club where total out of pocket expenses for the customer for vip could range from $550[cheaper area, half hour]-$1550[hour, nicest area] If the customer was funding it all with a credit card, tack on 20% on top of that. And yet there were signs in the dressing room that dances were only supposed to be $20 and upcharging wasn’t allowed. I didn’t even want to try selling vip because I knew damn well I would only be willing to slightly increase mileage and I felt like I was ripping off the customer that way. This is despite this is a no-extras club and everything is see through anyways. I think other dancers at least subconsciously felt similarly and handled it by only shooting for vip sales and avoiding single dances because in that club the mo of dancers is to line up along the bar area and couches and just stare at the entrance waiting a high roller to come in and descend. Heck one time, a customer tipped me to go grab another dancer. So I did it, and she looked over at him, and rolled her eyes and didnt say a word, and stood still because because she had already profiled him as not worth it. I guess that’s one useful thing about alcohol. It temporarily drowns away a lot of stuff that I can’t handle as not making any freakin sense. 😅
• rickdugan

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  5 years ago

  ===> "I think other dancers at least subconsciously felt similarly and handled it by only shooting for vip sales and avoiding single dances because in that club the mo of dancers is to line up along the bar area and couches and just stare at the entrance waiting a high roller to come in and descend. Heck one time, a customer tipped me to go grab another dancer. So I did it, and she looked over at him, and rolled her eyes and didnt say a word, and stood still because because she had already profiled him as not worth it. " Well, then it goes one of two ways for them - either they are able to sell those VIPs consistently enough to earn good money or they aren't. Those who can pull off those sales consistently will likely be poor OTC targets because they are already doing well-enough ITC that they are not tempted by $$$ for sex. Awesome - I wish them nothing but continued success. Those who struggle to sell high priced experiences likely won't last long in that club. One can only live so long under "feast or famine" conditions before one is forced to go elsewhere. Now I'll agree that a club that tries to sell at those prices may be creating an atmosphere where unrealistic expectations are common, which in turn may make it a poor hunting ground for OTC. So I'll just go to the club down the street and offer it to the girls who have already left the unrealistic club and have since had a reality adjustment. I'm sure that I'll also see most of the dancers from the unrealistic club elsewhere once they get churned out.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  Another variable is that perhaps most OTCers are regular SCers and/or regular OTCers - i.e. it's not a one-off or a once-in-a-blue-moon thing - i.e. maybe an infrequent SCer that RILs on a particular-dancer may see $500 to $1K as worth-it for a one-time or infrequent thing - but the regular SCer and/or OTCer likely is unwilling and/or unable to consistently pay those prices unless he's somewhat wealthy vs just doing pretty-good. And this same point can perhaps also apply to dancers - i.e. a dancer not into OTC may see it as worth it only if it's $500 to $1K+ - whereas a dancer "more into OTC", for lack of a better-word, getting $200 to $300, or maybe $400, somewhat consistently in addition to her ITC $$$, is attractive to her.
• rl27

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  5 years ago

  The last dancer I regularly got OTC from would only see guys either before or after shift change, and at most two a day. VIP dances at the club were $300 for a half hour, and according to her she would get 175. Her outcalls were $200 for a slightly more naughty version of the dance you got in the VIP, and $300 for a whole lot more. Th
• rickdugan

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  5 years ago

  Idk Papi. As someone who does this a lot with low volume girls and has had to woo more than a few OTC over a period of time, I think it's less about whether a particular girl is "more into OTC" and more about: (1) how the money is ITC; (2) what her cash needs are at that moment; and (3) her comfort level with the particular guy offering the opportunity. Girls who are earning more than they need to support their lifestyles solely through ITC efforts are very poor OTC targets. However, since they do have the ability to keep plugging away ITC if all else fails, cash needs alone are not necessarily going to make a girl jump at an offer of p4p from any guy who makes her uncomfortable. Also, the odds are good that a girl who is seriously open to OTC for $1k will be open to it for less so long as the offer is reasonable and the need and comfort elements are there. Conversely, a girl who is adamantly opposed to selling sex is unlikely to do so regardless of her need or the incremental money difference - she'd rather starve or go to a food bank than "compromise her morals." But of course dancing has a way of loosening those "morals" over time, lol.
• rl27

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  5 years ago

  Man for some reason this auto published while I was typing. The rest of my message is. The private session would typically be 2 to 2 1/2 hours. As she said the money she made in one OTC meet up covered all her various tip out charges and started her day off in the black. Two made her enough to cover bills. Anything she made in the club was basically then all hers. Luckily for me her prices were well in line what I am willing to pay for OTC. I have found that most dancers want to charge slightly higher than a highly attractive escort in that city, which is typically $500 to $750 an hour where I live, even if she is no where near that escort's quality.
• txgolfer

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  5 years ago

  Make me an offer, will consider it.... LOL
• Spillthebeans

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  5 years ago

  A fair rate is one that both parties would return again for.
• mjx01

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  5 years ago

  I 2nd what RL27 said. In the clubs I am most familiar with, the club takes 1/2 of ITC options (LDs, VIP). So that 340 is at best 170 to the dancer.
• wallanon

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  5 years ago

  Fair is whatever a customer pays without remorse. I'm fine with guys paying more than I would have to pay on the hobby experience. It keeps costs down for the rest of us.
• Muddy

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  5 years ago

  Pay? Lol. Pay me. And I’ll let you cut in line ;) Honestly maybe if I was absolutely crazy about a girl that I just thought was beautiful thing ever. Rare but it does happen. (Psssst Nice can we hold hands at the fair tonight for $4,000??? Oh God I’m desperate and lonely!!!!!!!!!!😩)
• Muddy

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  5 years ago

  *was the most
• Muddy

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  5 years ago

  And to keep it serious for a moment some of my favs bring home sooooo much on a weekend night. I know they aren’t lying because I see how many dances they get. They are very generous with their time to bullshit with me for a few while they have customers lined up waiting. I take this into account when asking them on a date. Weekdays only. I think I’m a charming dude but I even know I can’t fuck with that Friday night money.
• wallanon

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  5 years ago

  An interesting discussion topic (since it hasn't been brought up lately) would be whether straight up OTC is a date or an appointment.
• chowder

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  5 years ago

  Supply/Demand. Where the roads cross between what one is willing to sell for and what ne is willing to pay. It isn't any more difficult than that.
• twentyfive

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  5 years ago

  ^ Just ask here there’s plenty of Detroiters here that will point you in the right direction.
• rickdugan

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  5 years ago

  ===> "I recently took clients to Landing Strip and while I feel I wasn’t flat out screwed over I was told in my review that I potentially overpaid. I am very reluctant to take people to clubs as well as go myself until I can discern a “market price” for locals and regulars at the higher end clubs." I wouldn't sweat it if I were you. When I first moved down here from the northeast, I was overpaying too. Consider it tuition until you get a better handle on your local market. But you'll never learn if you avoid going to school because the clubs are the only place where you can figure it out. Guys don't generally like to share granular details of what they spend for p4p on open forums or even privately.
• samiel

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  5 years ago

  At the club I frequent, most Day Shift girls tell me they shoot for $500. Their shift runs from 11am to 7pm, so $500/8 = $62.50/hr. Night Shift girls tell me they shoot for $1000, so roughly $125/hr. Obviously they may make more or less depending on the day. That said, most girls quote me the $300/hr figure as their hourly rate in the club. What do I think is a fair price for OTC P4P? Personally I think a girl quoting me $500/hr is fair. In her mind, I'm guessing she's missing the opportunity cost of $300/hr plus she's adding in sex. I've personally been quoted anywhere from $250/hr to $1200/hr, but the most common quotes are $300-500. It depends on the girl, the day, and many other variables.
• King_Gambrinus

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  5 years ago

  OTC is usually not by the hour, it’s more of a pay per meet though. Only escorts charge hourly rates.
• prevert

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  5 years ago

  Are these prices you're talking about an hourly rate, or for something less restricted? I get what nicespice is saying about not accepting less than she thinks she's worth, but I don't think I'd want to treat a stripper like an hourly hooker. I've sampled the escort scene here in Louisville and Lexington, and I enjoyed myself, but it was also only in the 100-150 range. If I personally was going to pay $300-500, I'd want more than just a quick fuck. Maybe sex, dinner, some smoke, more sex. I don't want to make like she's my girlfriend or anything, but I wouldn't mind a little more relaxed thing.
• prevert

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  5 years ago

  I guess it depends on where you are too. I didn't do that sort of thing when I lived in Chicago, but I imagine prices would be higher there than they are here.
• Call.Me.Ishmael

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  5 years ago

  Some dancers follow the escort model and charge hourly. Others are a bit more lax about time and you're paying for a night out and then capping things off in a hotel room. Other times, they're leaving the club with you and going directly to a hotel. It's inexact.
• ButterMan

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  5 years ago

  I'd never offer a chick less than 200 because I figure if she accepts she is either nasty or a crackhead. But 300 is a pretty standard rate. 2 high end strippers I have paid up to 500 for but no more.
• chowder

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  5 years ago

  Fair is a relative measure. Might consider another thread on what people are actually asking/paying and the structure of the arrangement. It will still vary but it would be actual data and not subjective.
• Mate27

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  5 years ago

  Free is fair if she is mutually looking for a good time with you, or some drinks OTC and a meal before having fun. I wouldn’t go overboard on her. It’s just not fun unless she is a willing participant.
• Subraman

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  5 years ago

  Obviously, members of the winning team don't pay bitches shit. We offer our management services in return. But, for the rest of these guys, I agree with the previous sentiment. nice, it's almost painful to watch you go through backbends trying to logic this out with comparisons to lapdances and escorts (why not throw in SB PPM? Out of everything else in the sex industry, OTC is closest to a date with a SB who is still on PPM, whereas it does not resemble anything ITC and only marginally an escort). OTC price is OTC price, there's no reason to base price it on any other service.
• IceyLoco

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  5 years ago

  Fair is whatever price is agreed on I suppose. Personally I think a hoe should always upsell herself and know her worth. If a trick is willing to pay, that automatically gives her the upper hand and she should use it to her full advantage. If he wont go that high,make sure he pays more than he's originally willing to.
• flagooner

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  5 years ago

  Damn. I haven't been in this room for a while and just seeing this thread. TLDR, but did read @nicespice's post. ^"A song is, on average, 3.5 minutes. And dances are $20/ song. 60 divided by 3.5 times 20 equals ~$343 hourly in floor dances. " 1. No way dancers are fully booked. And the prices/song length varies but I can accept that as averages (but song lengths are typically shorter) 2. Most dancers aren't asian and may calculate that to be $75/hr.
• Jascoi

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  5 years ago

  before joining this site i’ve had otc services a few times about seven years ago. ranged from 150, 300, 400, 500, 700 an hour. mostly incall. i came to the conclusion it just wasn’t for me. (maybe i’ll try again sometime.)
• Subraman

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  5 years ago

  -->"otc services a few times about seven years ago. ranged from 150, 300, 400, 500, 700 an hour" If you were getting OTC where strippers were using an escorting-type model -- which is what the above indicates -- then you get the worst of all worlds: escort economics with stripper hustle & flakiness. No wonder you didn't like it. What you described is a non-starter for me. If you're going to do OTC, and deal with stripper flakiness, at least make sure you get the upside!
• rickdugan

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  5 years ago

  ===> "i’ve had otc services a few times about seven years ago. ranged from 150, 300, 400, 500, 700 an hour. mostly incall." What surprised me most about this comment was the "mostly incall" at the end. It was weird simply because most strippers don't have private places to take guys because they have kids and/or SOs waiting for them. This sounded more a comment I'd see on USASG from a guy responding to escort ads than fun with strippers with local residences. In 90+% of the cases I deal with, strippers need me to host somewhere, which works just fine for me. As far as the rest, I kinda' agree with Subraman to an extent. I don't seek the type of date night that he does, but I'm not usually explicitly negotiating some hourly rate. Again this sounds like someone from USASG rather than someone who took strippers OTC.
• reverendhornibastard

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  5 years ago

  My OTC experience is very limited. I don’t go to clubs looking for OTC pussibilities but it has happened a few times. The most I ever pod was $750 (before tax) but that OTC involves two girls so it was really only $375 per girl. I think the few other OTC experiences each set me back about $300 a$350. In each case I opted for premium cuts. I would never go OTC with a skank. I marvel at guys who shell out megabucks for OTC desploogination services. Remember Eliot Spitzer, former New York attorney general busted in a prostitution scandal ([view link] )? He shelled out several thousand dollars for OTC. While I could afford to do the same, I would never consider it. How can any woman be worth that much? Even if she was that incredibly hot to justify a four digit fee per hour, how would you get your money’s worth? If she was THAT hot I probably wouldn’t last more than 60 - 90 seconds with her! How will you use all the extra time? Can you rent a high prices spread on a minute to minute basis or is one hour the minimum rental period? If one hour is the minimum rental period, can you sublease? If you could sublease you might even be able to run some trains on her and turn a small profit!
• northwest101215

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  5 years ago

  Reverend..... Before tax with OTC?
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  "... Can you rent a high prices spread on a minute to minute basis or is one hour the minimum rental period ..." Good counter-point - if the girl wants to charge $500/hour, does that mean if I I'm done at ~10-minutes then I should just pay ~$80?
• Subraman

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  5 years ago

  With the kind of by-the-hour escort-like girls MisterWonderful is patronizing, the deal is "Your time lasts an hour or whenever you cum, whichever comes first. You still pay for the whole hour. Tips are appreciated.".
• twentyfive

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  5 years ago

  @ Rev are you channeling your inner icee;) Run a train on her make a profit lol
• dancewdcpa

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  5 years ago

  Spitzer was actually Governor of NY when he was caught and resigned my good Reverend. Guessing he paid that ridiculous amount to keep everyone quiet. Clearly he did not get that portion of what he paid for!
• Jascoi

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  5 years ago

  incall... is the girls residence or the hotel room she rents. outcall... is where she comes to my place.
• Subraman

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  5 years ago

  MW: ya, Rick seems to have gotten it backwards, but it's just as weird that she has a hotel room she rents. Or rather, not weird -- given that the girls you saw had an escort pricing model, maybe not surprising she also had escort-like logistics. You've been seeing high volume escorts pretending to be strippers. In the OTC most of us talk about, the whole point is that these artifacts of escorting business model don't exist -- no by-the-hour pricing, and it's not her primary job so she won't have her own hotel room that she's rented.
• twentyfive

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  5 years ago

  ^ I knew a gal used to commute to work at a WPB club, from Orlando, she would drive down on Thursday, get a room, stay till Sunday, work 4 shifts, met her a few times at the room she rented, I didn't know her to be escorting as to me she was a FWB, but there are plenty like that, not just here, but other cities as well, maybe some of them use their room for OTC and income padding.
• rickdugan

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  5 years ago

  Actually subraman, I had his reference right and I think we agree. It's not completely unheard of for a girl to have her own room or place to host, which is why I said that I hosted 90+% of the time and not 100%, but most strippers aren't in this position. Even the ones that are traveling to strip are often traveling with someone else, like a stripper friend, SO, etc. So it's weird that the "majority" of his OTC adventures were incall (them hosting) using a strict escort pricing model.
• prevert

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  5 years ago

  An illuminating discussion.
• Jascoi

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  5 years ago

  The first girl that I got to enjoy sex with after my separation from my wife was a lot of fun in the club but it was a blue ball experience. she offered to me OTC at a hotel room that she shared with another girl. Obviously both these girls were actively soliciting guys (including me) to visit them OTC ‘in call’ in their hotel room. it was a fun experience but I definitely would not do the same experience again... now that I know better.
• wildman22

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  5 years ago

  What's missing from this conversation is context. What is happening and with who? Those are the two biggest factors in determining what is a reasonable price. First, what is going to happen? There are different types of OTC experiences and the price varies by what you want. I would categorize these as: 1) "just sex", 2) "club-like experience" and 3) "date night". The first category is self-explanatory - girl comes to your place and you get right down to business. Everything is over in less than an hour. The second experience is when the girl comes to your place and there is some stripping and lap dancing, en route to the sex. In this case, you get the aura of being in a club - music, sexy clothing, and gradual elevation in contact level (yes, pun intended). Finally, there are the girls that will go to dinner, dancing, or even join you at a strip club before ending up at your place. The second factor, and a major one, is who you are meeting. Attractiveness and personality are quantifiable attributes. There are girls I would pay a lot of money to meet OTC. Others not so much. Here are a range of rates I've had offered to me: Solid 7 Cuban girl with minimal English skills - only interested in category 1 above because she would not by any fun in categories 2 or 3 - $250 for one hour. Turned her down. Club experience - 2 eastern European girls for two hours for $1000 total ($500 apiece for the mathematically challenged). One was a 7 and one an 8. They brought sexy lingerie, did some dancing and touching of each other for my viewing pleasure, then some lap dances in various stages of undress, then on to the bed. Finally, have an offer on the table for an evening that starts with dinner, then on to a nightclub, then spend the entire night. Base price was $1000 and the list of things she was willing to do was extensive. A few had upcharges, but she was very clear up front what those would be if I wanted to go there. They weren't my thing. At the end of the day, the price you should pay comes down to how memorable you want the experience to be. $300-500 should get you basic service from a decent looking girl. $1000-1500 should get you a night to remember with the girl of your dreams (unless you have frequent nightmares - that costs a lot less). For $2000 you can get your favorite porn star. The good thing for me is that my ideal girl is different from many other guys. I'm not into the blonde Barbie look with enhanced tits and Goddess complex. I prefer a brunette with natural body and no tats. And if her eyes are blue, I am willing to pay way more.
• Subraman

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  5 years ago

  Wildman, my view and experiences are fundamentally different than yours. IME, when it comes to strippers, whether it's just a hotel sexing for an hour, or she spends all night, there's often little difference in price. Hell, sometimes the "hotel sexing for an hour" girl quotes the highest prices -- those types of girls are high volume professionals who sometimes charge a lot. By contrast, the unprofessional occasional-OTC girl who parties with me first and even crashes, doesn't even think in terms of by-the-hour or ala carte pricing. That is literally one of the biggest advantages of OTCing, IMO. Perhaps we're having different experiences because you accept the "just sex costs more than date night" right from the beginning, and explicitly approach the proposal and negotiation with that in mind? I never do. "Will you see me OTC? Yes? Awesome! $300? Oh, $350? Deal. ... Oh, let's hit dinner in Hayes Valley and do some barhopping first, cool? Cool!" Any stripper who is not a high volume escort-like girl, just wants her price. I don't ask her to charge me more because we're going to dinner and drinks first, I just throw that in after we're done. We'll drink, go back to the room, have sex, and if she's too drunk to go home she'll crash all night; that's still the $350 we agreed upon. I'll probably tip her for extraordinary service.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  @Subra I would imagine you get that type of experience b/c I assume said-dancer you already have cultivated as an ITC-fave for a while and are a regular of hers thus giving you a good-amount of leverage for her to agree to pretty-much everything you propose I assume for her not to lose a regular - it is also my understanding from your previous posts that you hit slow-dayshifts where I'd assume $$$ is tighter for dancers to where they may be less apt to pass up decent business let-alone regulars' business. It appears to me it's more difficult for the avg PL that has not employed the patented Subra-method - e.g. a cold OTC setup, maybe the first time you meet her (or second); and/or a nigthshift girl in a good $$$-making club where she makes good $$$ ITC and thus she can more readily hold-out for a good-offer vs a decent-offer.
• Subraman

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  5 years ago

  Papi, I have no about people who are using non Subra methodologies, but you're absolutely right about my M.O. I'm already a regular or at least seen her a few times and she knows I'm a regular at the club, I hit the dead slow dayshifts where even my modest remuneration gets her triple what her colleagues earn over that timeperiod, etc.
• twentyfive

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  5 years ago

  @Papi what @Subraman is saying has been my experience as well, you know I rarely do night shift, and you have met a few of the girls I am friendly with, a good time in Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm, or Miami beach goes a long way, and if you play it right, they don't feel like a hooker, and are happy to go someplace they never would have been able to afford on their own, plus not lose a night's income. ( the sweet spot is usually less than $350.)
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  @25 From the dancers I've spoken w/ that know you they tell me they like hanging out w/ you mainly b/c of your 11" - but if you say it's b/c of your gentlemanly skills, then maybe that helps too
• Subraman

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  5 years ago

  BTW, this whole thing with how easy-breezy strippers are with adding on dinner at a fancy place: [view link] Women who foodie call are more likely to score high in the "dark triad" of machiavellianism - narcissism - psychopathy. Describe anyone you know? All I know is, all my ATFs and most of my CFs were always thrilled to accept an unpaid lunch & drinks before their shift, or dinner & drinks after... science!
• twentyfive

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  5 years ago

  @ Papi those girls were exaggerating it’s really only about 7” maybe they were talking about the girth 😁
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  😄
• Dlee954

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  5 years ago

  I only got OTC from chicks that actually was digging me and the most I paid was $150 + $80+ in the club. Some even free and flat out refused the money. Given one I paid before. The recent number collection was because I went against Lil Wayne’s wise words... “can’t treat these hoes like ladies”. I rather do ITC and keep it low. But paying for VIP is a b.
• Subraman

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  5 years ago

  Get them hooked on drugs, abuse them emotionally, and give them an occasional beating, and you'll be Icey Jr.! lol
• twentyfive

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  5 years ago

  ^ the beatings will continue til morale improves
• Subraman

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  5 years ago

  Morale won't improve until he gets better drugs
• Dlee954

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  5 years ago

  Who’s Icey Jr? Treating them ladies is treating a stripper than a stripper. No woman walks this earth is worth more than $100 and I’ve overspent. So, if a woman strips then she’s nothing more than that to me. Has nothing to do with drugs or abuse.
• Dlee954

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  5 years ago

  *them like ladies is treating a stripper like anything other than a stripper.
• twentyfive

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  5 years ago

  @subraman he’s counting on the placebo effect lolz
• Fridiculous

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  5 years ago

  Nice - are you at KOD? I believe I saw you post about this before, I could be wrong. If so, I just want to stop by to hang with you. To buy a drink and chat. Your insight is pretty impressive.
• wildman22

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  5 years ago

  Subraman, don't disagree with your assessment if you are a regular at the club and the dancer knows you. I've had many local girls spend the evening with me for no additional dough and a few for no money at all. But this thread was started by a dancer asking what a fair price is. So I was responding from the perspective - a guy in a new club in a new town and not a regular. I am also assuming that the guy is not Brad Pitt and the dancer is doing it for the money. So my answer was about what that dancer could reasonably expect to get from "Joe Clubgoer". My answer was based on what I have been offered, not what I would pay. I should have added a third category - location. Florida is cheaper than most places because of the large number of clubs and dancers willing to do OTC. The basic fact is that the Cuban girls have driven the prices way down. You can go to Diamond Dolls and get 2 Cuban girls to meet you OTC for $300. But that is not the norm. Happy clubbing my friend.
• IceyLoco

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  5 years ago

  I've had hot Cuban girls ask for as little as $50 for FS.
• Subraman

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  5 years ago

  wildman: that's fair. I guess my statement is more of an addendum: if you're an SCer who hasn't done this before, my strong suggestion is to not get caught up in tiered alacarte services and timeframes. The girls who introduce these things -- 2 hours costs $X, 3 hours costs $Y -- are high volume pros who don't operate like strippers, and you're losing some of the best parts of OTC if you buy into this. Instead, negotiate for OTC, get a price, then casually discuss dinner and drinks beforehand, leave the amount of time open, etc.
• stripperlover777

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  6 months ago

  $500 For The Night For Whole Performance, I Would Still Do The Food/Drinks/Small Items As Extras Above The $500 & On Me. I'm Seeing A Lot Of OTC On Here, So The Dancers Really Wanting The $$$ ✔️ 😛