discussion comment
5 years ago
Good clarifications, Will. Expanding on your thoughts.
In my experience, in Detroit, if you establish fairly early on that you're familiar with the game, per-song costs sometimes aren't even discussed. You agree on a fee for a level of service and go from there. The fee may even change if you decide to change the level of service. It's even possible you may go to "the back" without an agreement, do a dance, try to come up with a number for something more, not agree, then just end the session by paying the fee for the dance(s), which you may not have even known ahead of time and wouldn't have known if you had agreed upon something more.
So fixed costs aren't always clear. If they are, I try to state them, but they aren't always. My concern is moreso guys asking about negotiated costs.
I do see some reviewers be explicit about costs, which is their prerogative, I guess. I think it's smart for any newcomer or non-regular to read a lot of reviews. Odds are on that at least one of 10 will say something about prices. But I think it's not the kind of thing we should be expected to provide all the time, nor should we be asked for it if we don't provide it. If we're not providing prices, it's probably for a good reason.
Like I say, I think asking and answering those questions via PM is a better way to go if you're that interested.
I have also said before that it's smart to do everything possible to not look or act like a newbie, period. If I'm in an extras-friendly area, I will sometimes tell the dancer I live in the area, even though I don't. Her thinking I may end up being repeat business may buy me a discount.
I am suggesting newbies do their homework. I'm also suggesting we all think about what level of discretion we use when telling people what we're doing, and that we shouldn't out-and-out expect other people to, perhaps unwisely, not have that discretion.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I've clubbed three times in Vegas: Once was just OK, once was amazing and once I met the worst ROB I've ever encountered.
The wild west, indeed. If you do, just know it's expensive and some are out to get you. If you have the ability to just head to Pahrump, I might recommend that.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Dunno if I'd say it's that bad yet.
Plus, it's moreso a matter of being careful we don't accidentally ruin the fun for everyone here, or for ourselves.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Thoughts after this (good) conversation:
1. I agree that high quotes may be fine to post because, presumably, they aren't being taken up. "She said I could meet her later for $900. I said that, for that many Ben Franklins, she could tie a key to a string and go fly a kite."
2. Turning back to why not to post actual agreements, though, the key phrase in #1 is "not taken up." Please consider the end of this clip from The Wire when thinking about why you shouldn't post a price for deals negotiated and accepted: https://youtu.be/hGo5bxWy21g
3. I agree that, with PMs, considering the person asking is also great advice. Don't tell just anyone what can go on someplace. Look at number of reviews, other discussion topics, etc.
4. This in no way is referring to prices for "set" things, like the cost for a single dance or a set amount of time in a CR. That info can and should be posted. This is referring to, ahem, negotiated services. I thought that was implied simply by saying we were discussing Detroit.
There's definitely a difference of opinion here, but because I see reviewing dancer quality as one of the most important parts of a review, I find it almost impossible not to include prices and create a potential link between a price and a dancer, even without names, because I'm inevitably going to describe the dancer and give the night of the week I was there, which will narrow things down a lot. I'd rather just not give a price at all.
I again refer folks to The Wire clip above. We are engaging in a far more victimless act, but I think we should all exercise some caution.
discussion comment
5 years ago
This has somewhat already been said from the day perspective, but consider the crowd at night versus the daytime crowd: At night, you get a lot more one-off clubgoers, as in the guys who are out with their buddies, the bachelor parties, etc. Those guys aren't the ones who read this site, probably don't understand how much YMMV and are just there to drink, be at the stage and maybe get a dance or two. Dancers know those guys aren't there for mileage or extras, nor do they even try.
If you're going during the day, you're probably pretty committed. You're probably there alone and you probably know the game. So that's when dancers willing to play that game come out of the woodwork.
discussion comment
5 years ago
My three choices are Polekatz (SW suburbs), Scores (O'Hare) and Gold Club (O'Hare) in that order.
If you're a bargain seeker, Polekatz has $10 Tuesdays. I find the talent there to be very good. Big selection. Dress nice, go alone and tell them it's your first time. They'll put you in the more-secluded upstairs area and send over one of their top girls right away.
Scores has a more limited selection but a good top end. Gold Club still has work to do to catch up to the other two, but is getting there.
I'll message you some recommendations.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Site was acting weird and posted a buch of times. Mods, do with which what you will.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I like Cristobal and Longball's thinking. Here's an expanded path for going west:
- Fly into Vegas and hit up either Rhino, Palomino or, if you're feeling saucy, Pahrump, just to say you did. If you want to hit up a Vegas Aviators game, they have a brand new stadium.
- Head from there to L.A. COI is on your way into town, if you drive. Dodger Stadium is to the north. Anaheim is further south.
- Make your way south to see the Padres. Bring your passport and hit up TJ. At that point, you can head home.
Here's a Northern path as well:
- Fly into Chicago. Stop at Scores or Gold Room if it's nighttime. See the Cubs and Sox. Wrigley is Wrigley while the Sox are a more run-of-the-mill experience. Keep driving south to Polekatz.
- Drive a few hours to Detroit. Pick a nice day to watch the Tigers lose, then head to Penthouse and/or Flight Club.
- Keep on driving to Toronto. Enjoy legal-in-Canada fun before or after watching Vlad, Jr.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I like Cristobal and Longball's thinking. Here's an expanded path for going west:
- Fly into Vegas and hit up either Rhino, Palomino or, if you're feeling saucy, Pahrump, just to say you did. If you want to hit up a Vegas Aviators game, they have a brand new stadium.
- Head from there to L.A. COI is on your way into town, if you drive. Dodger Stadium is to the north. Anaheim is further south.
- Make your way south to see the Padres. Bring your passport and hit up TJ. At that point, you can head home.
Here's a Northern path as well:
- Fly into Chicago. Stop at Scores or Gold Room if it's nighttime. See the Cubs and Sox. Wrigley is Wrigley while the Sox are a more run-of-the-mill experience. Keep driving south to Polekatz.
- Drive a few hours to Detroit. Pick a nice day to watch the Tigers lose, then head to Penthouse and/or Flight Club.
- Keep on driving to Toronto. Enjoy legal-in-Canada fun before or after watching Vlad, Jr.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I like Cristobal and Longball's thinking. Here's an expanded path for going west:
- Fly into Vegas and hit up either Rhino, Palomino or, if you're feeling saucy, Pahrump, just to say you did. If you want to hit up a Vegas Aviators game, they have a brand new stadium.
- Head from there to L.A. COI is on your way into town, if you drive. Dodger Stadium is to the north. Anaheim is further south.
- Make your way south to see the Padres. Bring your passport and hit up TJ. At that point, you can head home.
Here's a Northern path as well:
- Fly into Chicago. Stop at Scores or Gold Room if it's nighttime. See the Cubs and Sox. Wrigley is Wrigley while the Sox are a more run-of-the-mill experience. Keep driving south to Polekatz.
- Drive a few hours to Detroit. Pick a nice day to watch the Tigers lose, then head to Penthouse and/or Flight Club.
- Keep on driving to Toronto. Enjoy legal-in-Canada fun before or after watching Vlad, Jr.
discussion comment
6 years ago
From the Detroit News article linked in the Deadspin piece: " ... more than 100 people wrote letters describing Moyer as a 'God-fearing, church-going, helpful, charitable, conscientious, kind, loving person.' Izzo and several former college athletes also have spoken of his character.
Protip: You can be of high moral character and still like sex and sexuality. You can still be a good, likable person who is kind and generous to others and like BJs. Heck, you might even be what the dancers call "a good customer," one they actually kind of like to see come in. I have no qualms with that being what he was doing.
However, texting and driving is still a really bad idea, and if you kill someone doing it, that's your problem and you have to deal with the consequences.
discussion comment
6 years ago
I'm making my way to the capitol: Detroit.
Checked in with a fave from last time and she'll be there. Only debate is whether or not to OTC. I might.
discussion comment
6 years ago
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Papi_ChuloMiami, FL (or the nearest big-booty club)
The Silk clubs in Milwaukee and Madison in Wisconsin have a shower with a glass wall facing the club. You can pay for a "shower show," where you go in with a girl of your choice and she scrubs you down for a while.
I've seen it once or twice and it looks to me like no one leaves happy. The guy has to be covered; I'm not sure if they provide swim trunks or if you have to bring your own, or go in wearing your boxers, which I imagine doesn't make the rest of the night fun. Not sure what it costs, but I imagine it's not cheap, because the dancer is probably out of commission until she can redo her hair and makeup.
I never would, but I guess others do.
discussion comment
6 years ago
Chicago isn't as bad as some say, but you do get relatively little value compared to Detroit. If you can do Detroit, do Detroit.
If you have to stick around Chicago, the clubs are expensive but a few have hot ladies.
Polekatz is the top choice. About 30 min. from O'Hare.
Scores is next. Close to O'Hare. Gold Club just down the street if Scores isn't working for you.
I, too, have not liked Heavenly Bodies.
Oceans is supposed to be nice, but I haven't been in there yet.
Admiral Theater was a ripoff the one time I went.
Atlantis is nice, but there were barely any girls or customers the one time I went. Same for Industrial Strip, O and 390.
Let me reiterate: If you can go to Detroit, go to Detroit. But you won't feel bad about Polekatz, and Scores is OK.
discussion comment
6 years ago
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founderslip a dollar in her g-string for me
I've been adding a generic comment or two to the boards of the clubs in my Favorites list to get the party started. A few lines describing the club, what to expect, etc. I thought that might be a good way to establish things. Maybe some of you other mongers can do the same for your Favorites.
discussion comment
6 years ago
Dirk: You'd be surprised what passes for "respectful" for guys nowadays. If you treat a dancer like a person, you're probably more respectful than most.
Where I live, we have the dreaded "tip walk." After a girl is on stage, she goes around and asks everyone at the bar if they'd like to tip her for her show. A dollar is fine. It's annoying for the girl and the patrons, but it can be her way of connecting for VIP and it's just the way it's done around here for some reason, plus, it's just one lousy buck each time. It's easy enough to avoid if you just relocate when a girl comes by you really don't want to tip, but again, most of the time, it's a lousy buck and it's faster to just give it to her quick so she moves on.
Anyhow, one night, each time a girl is on her tip walk, the guy next to me listens to the question, then looks her square in the eye, screams, "NOPE!" then turns to laugh with his buddies. You could see each girl walk away with a "I wanna kill myself" look on her face. I kinda wanted to smack the dude, but he and his meatheads would have kicked my ass.
So yeah, those guys are out there. They're getting dances, getting drunk, acting entitled, telling dancers they're dirty strippers who aren't worth it and having their buddies cheer their antics.
Compared to those guys, if you're the least bit polite, you're a gentleman.
discussion comment
6 years ago
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founderslip a dollar in her g-string for me
I can confirm, not showing up for me on mobile, either. Here's the copy-paste of buttons I get:
READ REVIEWS (940)
WRITE A REVIEW
GET DIRECTIONS
SUGGEST EDIT
NEARBY ATTRACTIONS
BOOKMARKED
discussion comment
6 years ago
[sigh] Organized religion getting in the way again.
People just want to be happy. Stealing, killing, being forced to do stuff against your will, not stuff that makes people happy, and religion gets that somewhat. Folks willing to trade sex for money and vice versa make each other happy. No one loses. For some reason, religion doesn't understand that, probably because encouraging their congregations to only have sex to have kids is how you get the Duggars, and that means more people to plop their money in the basket when they get older.
If you're going to look at Detroit and say the clubs are the problem, you're looking at a very wrong thing. Real crime, gangs, drugs, lack of economic opportunity, real problems. Guys having an outlet to get off with willing women, NOT A PROBLEM. It's the flower that blooms through the many cracksin the decrepit, crumbling, bullet-riddled sidewalk next to the burned out crack house that is much of eastern Michigan.
So yeah, just keep scapegoating the wrong things and see how much improves.
Just remember, there's one and only one reason I go to Detroit: The clubs. Go ahead, say you don't want visitors or my $400-$1,000 to go into the local economy. Explain that to the Chamber of Commerce and the tourism board. Kill the one reason guys like me come from other cities to visit. See how that works for you.
Needless to say, it's frustrating. People want to have sex and be sexual. It feels good and it's harmless if done right. Let folks do it, figuratively and literally.
discussion comment
6 years ago
I'm wondering if the $2,500 would apply to clubs, not dancers. Maybe I'm reading that wrong.
The VIP booth bill ... I mean, c'mon. We treat sex like it's worse than doing drugs. If guys are willing to pay for it, and girls are willing to do it, let 'em freakin' do it. Stop trying to control my dick.
discussion comment
6 years ago
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GACAUn-retired: Met my ATF. Married her. Divorcing her.
When you have to wait a long time to get something good, when you finally get it, there's always going to be that anxiety that it's going to disappear and you never deserved it in the first place. You're too used tonot having it.
discussion comment
6 years ago
There are some clubs I've been to that "get it," but they're rare.
There's a manager I know at one club who used to be at another; both clubs have been among my favorites under his watch. He gets it. He's made a point to build dancer chemistry. He really had it good at his first club. One dancer was a makeup expert and did the other girls up when she worked. Another did dress design and altering; the girls would go to her for apparel help. You could see it on the floor: Everyone liked each other and was upbeat and happy. The girls would pass each other and smile and laugh and chat quick. The dancers wanted the guys to be happy, too. It was a non-extras club, but the girls would go as far as the rules would allow and some were particularly clever. You got a great grind from every girl, after great conversation. There were multiple top-end hotties to choose from every time I went, probably because word got around that his club was good to work for, and even the mid-level girls gave a great dance. It's a lot of the same, from what I see, at his new club. He's got high standards for his dancers, but if they live up to them, he treats them well. It's actually how every business should be run.
Do I think he read his reviews? Maybe. Are there some club managers that read their reviews? Maybe.
I bet most don't, though. Any club where you see the same issues, over and over again and again? Nope, don't read their reviews.
There are probably more club managers that post our dreaded "Club Ad" reviews than actually read their reviews. It's unfortunate.
TUSCL can be an awesome resource for so many if used right. But people are estupido.
discussion comment
6 years ago
Papi: I don't necessarily look at all of that as a bad thing. We get misguided sometimes.
All we want out of life is to be happy. Is a ton of money worth it if you're miserably stressed out by your job, your family, your responsibilities? And making everyone around you unhappy in the process?
If anything, I give the younger folks credit. They're figuring out what's really important, maybe better than the older generations, and enjoying life more. Good on them.
And commitment isn't necessary for happiness, particularly in the age of Tinder.
I don't blame the kids one bit for going in that direction.
discussion comment
6 years ago
I've become better and better at finding excuses to escape.
"I think I'm going to go up and tip the girl on stage."
"I have to go to the bathroom."
"I'm going to head to the bar."
Whatever.
Just find a way to relocate. Easiest way to send the message.
discussion comment
6 years ago
You can be gentlemanly and still want/get mileage.
First off, gentlemanly is more than behavior. Do you dress & smell nice? That's gentlemanly. Will you tip well for good service? That's gentlemanly. Do you make good conversation and are you polite? That's gentlemanly. And those are all things that might make a girl want to give you better service.
Think about the woman who's nice in the front room but, ahem, naughty in the back. Who's to say that isn't kind of hot the other way around?
The key is to be considerate. Look up the actual definition of that word.
Be handsy, but if she tells you to stop or moves your hands away, don't try again. Also, handsy and grabby/gropey are very different. If you don't know the difference, do some reading on how to touch women and have them like it.
Try starting by touching her in a way she wants to be touched. Give a little back massage, under the shoulder blades, before the dance, particularly if she's busty (big-busted girls all have sore backs, especially if they're dancing in heels all the time). Good touches for her early tend to loosen the girl up to good touches for the both of you later.
You can ask about OTC in a gentlemanly way, after things have heated up some. "So I have to ask ... might you be available privately?" If the answer is "No," accept it. "Understood. Take it as a compliment, because I'm really enjoying your dances." She may try to propose a room at this point. This is where you should know if you're in an extras club or not, not to mention, know how to subtly inquire about potential services. If it's not going to be worth your money, turn her down, but again, you can do so nicely.
I'm going to Detroit soon. I get great service when I'm there. And the girls I get it from usually tell me they enjoyed spending time with me. Some of it's SS, sure. But one gave me part of her tip back to for parking. Another gave me her number unprompted. Another said I was a dead ringer for her ex. I apologized and she said, "No, that's not a bad thing. I had three kids with him, and you're nicer."
Each instance came after I got FS.
You can be a nice guy and get what you want. Just don't go too far either way. Don't be an awkward, wimpy pushover, don't be an asshole and don't be the worst combination: An awkward pushover who becomes a desperate grabby asshole.
Be confident, be considerate and try to get what you want without being inconsiderate of what she wants. Make her look forward to seeing you at the club again, and not just for your bankroll.
discussion comment
6 years ago
I wear one sometimes, but not often. There are times I'll want to club after going to a game and just happen to have one on.
It gets in the way more than anything. Forward and it gets in the dancer's way. Backward and it hits the back of a lot of lapper booths. Take it off and you might forget it, plus then your hair is messed up.
Some nicer clubs won't let you in wearing a ballcap. Generally, if I think I'm going to club, I don't leave the house with a hat.