The "you're such a gentlemen" dilemma
Lone_Wolf
Arizona
Any of you other PL's deal with this?
When I meet a high talent new-to-me dancer I won't be too handsy or go for high contact dances because I may be vying for OTC or just not in the mood. Perhaps I'll spend time with her two or three times and just not go for high mileage. Often, the dancer will express appreciation and call me a gentlemen or some other beta male adjective.
The thing is though, I'm not really that type of gentlemen and I do want high contact (titty sucking, FIV..etc) just like every other perv in the place does. But, the fucking precedent has been set that I'm not like that.
Hence the dilemma - I can switch to my desired high contact ways and break the nice guy perception or I spend money and time on other dancers that don't have that perception of me. Thus, I can be gentlemen and quit giving her money or I can be like most other PL's and go for it and the cash flows.
I attribute it to kind of like being in the friend zone in the civie world. The longer it takes to go for the gold (vjay) the more difficult it becomes to show your true desires.
When I meet a high talent new-to-me dancer I won't be too handsy or go for high contact dances because I may be vying for OTC or just not in the mood. Perhaps I'll spend time with her two or three times and just not go for high mileage. Often, the dancer will express appreciation and call me a gentlemen or some other beta male adjective.
The thing is though, I'm not really that type of gentlemen and I do want high contact (titty sucking, FIV..etc) just like every other perv in the place does. But, the fucking precedent has been set that I'm not like that.
Hence the dilemma - I can switch to my desired high contact ways and break the nice guy perception or I spend money and time on other dancers that don't have that perception of me. Thus, I can be gentlemen and quit giving her money or I can be like most other PL's and go for it and the cash flows.
I attribute it to kind of like being in the friend zone in the civie world. The longer it takes to go for the gold (vjay) the more difficult it becomes to show your true desires.
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39 comments
I'm not espousing being an asshole - I'm just saying the PL that gets all giddy b/c the dancer "considers him a gentleman" b/c he kept his hands under his thighs instead of feeling her up like he wanted to and was hoping for, is a chump/easy-mark and not a gentleman.
Sex, and a woman's body, is to be enjoyed, especially if that is what you are paying for - this country is way too uptight about sex and enjoying casual-sex even if it's in the P4P space.
Now, if you're trying for more than she's willing to offer anyone as a rule, that's a limitations issue unconnected from being labeled a "nice guy". There are many threads about that.
If you feel like you have to respond, say something like: "I'm just in a mellow mood tonight. I might be in the mood for more fun the next time I come in." Or something like that.
Having said that, I’m not passive and I don’t play a long game in terms of club mileage. I ask the stripper what she’s good with early on. Then I go as far as she says but I don’t push it further. I don’t enjoy a dragged out night of “how much shit can I get away with” and I don’t imagine the strippers like it either.
It simply means that when you ask, you actual *ask*, you do so politely, you acknowledge her right to say “no”, and simply move on without rancor or butt hurt at a negative response.
Buying dances is for chumps.
Front room makeout session. You can stand and back yourself up against a wall. But most of the time she will be on your lap. What could be simpler.
Then when it is time for your own pants to come down, you invite her to the back room. The afterwards take her home with you and keep on seeing her regularly.
Best if you select her and approach her yourself.
SJG
As many inexperienced SCers, I used to default to treating a dancer I was *paying* as I would treat a civvie on a first date - I wanted to enjoy her bod "but was afraid" how she would react and that I would be "disrespecting her" if I asked-for/expected what I really wanted -so as it turned out I would often pay up for the dancer to do the type of dances *she* liked vs the type of dances I liked and this of course was in most dancers' best interest (to be able to get my $$$ and also call all the shots) - and not being able to see the clear distinction b/w a $tripper and a civvie meant that when I was told I was being a gentleman I thought that was a good-thing when in fact it was usually as a result of me not asserting what I wanted as a custy and just letting the dancer do as she pleased which usually meant low-mileage.
IME/IMO being called a gentleman in the SC is more of a low-mileage red-flag than an invite to do more.
For the dancers though, I do think there is legitimately some respect for the "gentleman" who is the first customer out of the last five who doesn't immediately try to stick his fingers in her vag
Not a problem being a gentleman when sitting/chatting and getting a good grope on in the VIP. The 2 are not mutually exclusive.
First off, gentlemanly is more than behavior. Do you dress & smell nice? That's gentlemanly. Will you tip well for good service? That's gentlemanly. Do you make good conversation and are you polite? That's gentlemanly. And those are all things that might make a girl want to give you better service.
Think about the woman who's nice in the front room but, ahem, naughty in the back. Who's to say that isn't kind of hot the other way around?
The key is to be considerate. Look up the actual definition of that word.
Be handsy, but if she tells you to stop or moves your hands away, don't try again. Also, handsy and grabby/gropey are very different. If you don't know the difference, do some reading on how to touch women and have them like it.
Try starting by touching her in a way she wants to be touched. Give a little back massage, under the shoulder blades, before the dance, particularly if she's busty (big-busted girls all have sore backs, especially if they're dancing in heels all the time). Good touches for her early tend to loosen the girl up to good touches for the both of you later.
You can ask about OTC in a gentlemanly way, after things have heated up some. "So I have to ask ... might you be available privately?" If the answer is "No," accept it. "Understood. Take it as a compliment, because I'm really enjoying your dances." She may try to propose a room at this point. This is where you should know if you're in an extras club or not, not to mention, know how to subtly inquire about potential services. If it's not going to be worth your money, turn her down, but again, you can do so nicely.
I'm going to Detroit soon. I get great service when I'm there. And the girls I get it from usually tell me they enjoyed spending time with me. Some of it's SS, sure. But one gave me part of her tip back to for parking. Another gave me her number unprompted. Another said I was a dead ringer for her ex. I apologized and she said, "No, that's not a bad thing. I had three kids with him, and you're nicer."
Each instance came after I got FS.
You can be a nice guy and get what you want. Just don't go too far either way. Don't be an awkward, wimpy pushover, don't be an asshole and don't be the worst combination: An awkward pushover who becomes a desperate grabby asshole.
Be confident, be considerate and try to get what you want without being inconsiderate of what she wants. Make her look forward to seeing you at the club again, and not just for your bankroll.
I usually heard the "gentleman" compliment more during my one-way contact clubbing days. So it wasn't necessarily about trying for mileage, but a certain vibe or energy i had. Just do many of the things AnonymousJim said. Be pleasant, be civil, be courteous, be clean/hygienic, be generous (when warranted), but be confident/sincere in what you want, and you should get better reactions/treatment. I tend to do these things anyway, so it comes off as natural to me. Most girls are willing to accommodate a customer in what he wants within the club rules or her rules. The girls, if they're self-aware at all should fully understand that they are in "sex work" after all.
I still get the "respectful" complement every now and then, which i find unusual when i do all the things that i usually do during a dance. I find myself thinking, what did i do? Or what do other guys do? So i guess there are respectful ways of getting maximum mileage. The longer i do this though, i do tend to care less what dancers (or other people in general) really think of me, which is part of maturing, i guess. The whole social media thing seems to be delaying this for the newer generation, however.
The best I have seen evidence of, in posts and videos, is the TJ style tip + feel up. Sometimes that also goes to kissing.
SJG
Where I live, we have the dreaded "tip walk." After a girl is on stage, she goes around and asks everyone at the bar if they'd like to tip her for her show. A dollar is fine. It's annoying for the girl and the patrons, but it can be her way of connecting for VIP and it's just the way it's done around here for some reason, plus, it's just one lousy buck each time. It's easy enough to avoid if you just relocate when a girl comes by you really don't want to tip, but again, most of the time, it's a lousy buck and it's faster to just give it to her quick so she moves on.
Anyhow, one night, each time a girl is on her tip walk, the guy next to me listens to the question, then looks her square in the eye, screams, "NOPE!" then turns to laugh with his buddies. You could see each girl walk away with a "I wanna kill myself" look on her face. I kinda wanted to smack the dude, but he and his meatheads would have kicked my ass.
So yeah, those guys are out there. They're getting dances, getting drunk, acting entitled, telling dancers they're dirty strippers who aren't worth it and having their buddies cheer their antics.
Compared to those guys, if you're the least bit polite, you're a gentleman.
But i've definitely been that guy that a dancer (usually regular) will spend some time with without expecting any money, just to reset her state of mind (often with some reassuring back rubbing or thigh rubbing or light massage of hands, limbs or shoulders) after being shook up or upset by an asshole customer. Or she might talk it out a bit as well, although i won't usually say much. Once she calms down and her body language improves, she's ready to move on.
Although my version of FIV isn’t fingers - so I’m known to be a bit invasive when checking out the pink...
SJG