Comments by chitownlawyer (page 23)

I actually agree with davids. The best policy is not to get hung up on any one dancer to the extent that her presence determines whether you will go to a particular club. I have had two ATFs in my clubbing life, including the current incumbent. However, I have always been able to enjoy myself at Favorite Club, and find congenial company, regardless of any particular person's presence or, for that matter, availability (my ATF hold that position with a number of others, and even if she is working when I am in the club, it may be an hour or two before I get to spend time with her). I liken the situation to the fact that I have favorite dishes at the restaurants I regularly go to, but if they happen to be out of one thing on a particular night, there is a whole menu of good food to choose from.

Denny: Thanks for the info, and thank God for Indiana. Who would have believed that this dyed in the wool conservative Republican state would have such great strip clubs? I'll just be glad for my time spent in the neighboring state to my east. What is contact like at Kappa Kabanna? Do you know anything about Club Cabaret, which is apparently just to the east of Peoria, across the Illinois River?

Obviously, money is the ageless commodity here. I don't know where the author of the immediately preceeding post lives, but in my part of the country, a $100K income is pretty good, depending on a man's other commitments. HOwever, saying, I sell real estate at $40K is probably not a big come-on. Ultimately, what gets attention is not how much money you have, but how much you will spend on the dancer. And I think a lot of people in business (not just dancers), will create rationalizations so thay they don't care if the money they get comes from someone's 401(k), kid's college account, etc.

To clarify my prior post, although offers of OTC have always been veiled in such a way that they could be construed as non-commercial propositions, I have always interpreted them as being commercial propositions. This is especially true when I have known a dancer for all of five minutes, and she grabs me at fifteen minutes to closing time with the offer of some after-hours fun that morning at her home or my hotel--which is not a frequently received proposition, but one I have gotten maybe four or five times.

Dain, I haven't seen a thousand pudenda, but I've seen a lot, and I don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. Could you please clarify the aspects of the gynecological landscape that you are describing?

I had heard the formula was half the man's age plus 10. Now that I am in my 40s, I like that better than AB's rule.

I must be getting old, because if I was at liberty again, in my early 40s, I would not go after a very young girl, even if the prospects were favorable. I think you get to a point in life where common interests, cultural contexts, etc., become more important than bedtime. But for a short term experience, strip clubs give you a wonderful opportunity to think that younger girls are attracted to you, and that you could really have a successful relationship with one. But if I was really looking for a serious longterm relationship, I doubt I would go below 35, and certainly not below 30.

Actually, I view my SC spending (which is not all that much, with about one visit per month),as an investment, since it keeps my spirits up in a way that helps my practice, and sometimes saves me from an expensive divorce. In other words, Gentlemen...."Strip clubbing doesn't cost...IT PAYS."

CasualGuy brings up a good point, and one that hits home personally. Generally, if I was not at a club, or traveling to and from the club, I would be working. Since I am self-employed, and charge for my services on an hourly rate, the time that I am not billing is the most substantial cost of "the hobby" to me. I hve become fairly inventive in finding ways to combine at least the travel to clubs and some of the necessary expenses (mileage, hotel if I stay overnight in the city where Favorite Club is located) into billable work. Of course, when the government gets 50% of everyting you make, it's easy to justify a little down time.

Yes, my limitation is the fact that I don't want to deal with some shit that could come from patronzing local clubs, although I hear they are quite good (to quote an old mentor, "hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue). The closest decent strip club outside of my immediate area is two hours away, and Favorite CLub is three hours away. I generally spend 4-6 hours at the club when I go, and an overnight is usually involved. That 10-12 hour commitment limits the frequency of my visits, other than what I can fit in on sporadic and unpredictable business trips. I end up going to a club about once a month, which for me is about right. It's still an interesting and enjoyable experience at that pace, and not a routine thing.

I certainly would have sex with a 20 year old. However, I wouldn't get involved in a serious relationship with one.

No., unfortunately I could not put in the top tier of clubs, although it hits all the bases. Of the factors that you mentioned, the eclectic selection of dancers is a point in its favor. As I think you know, Favorite Club is located in an area that does not have a large population of latin women. Since latin women are my weakness, I have a better chance of being able to scratch that particular itch if a club has a large selection of diverse women. I also tend to like women with smaller builds, including women are out-and-members of the ITC. Again, the more women there are at a club, the more likely I will find the ideal: 32A, 5'5, straight brown hair to her shoulders. (Describes past ATF, but not current one, who is outside all of prior rules/policies.) With respect to no booze, this isn't a big deal one way or the other. Of course, no booze is a trade off for all nude, and since I don't need to see more than I can see on a woman wearing a g-string, the all-nude part doesn't add anything to my opinion of the club. At any particular club, on any particular night, I can take or leave drinking, but I wouldn't like it if all clubs were dry. Pasties on the nipples are a turn off. State law governing Favorite CLub requires that nipples be covered, but most clubs in that state do it with latex that, truth be told, probably circumvents what the legislature had in mind. HOwever, some of the dancers at IS actually wear more than is necessary. I almost expected to see tassels. Again, it is incongruous to have a women grinding her cooch against you to the point that the inner labia are exposed, but her nipples are covered. Bizarre. However, the main reason that I would not give IS a 9 or 10 is that the place seems blatantly commercial....I was reminded of the phrase, "Lap dance factory." My favorite clubs have an open, lighthearted atmosphere, almost like a private party. It seems that everytime I turned around at IS, someone was being told some rule. I still am a little confused by the "no standing on the floor" rule. When the very nice young man told me that "club policy requires that guests be seated at all times in the show room," my first thought was to walk out the door while telling him, " We'll solve that problem...I'm not your guest any more" The ironic thing is that none of these rules related to how customers treat the girls. The fact that girls are constantly leaving the floor to go upstairs for privates (as opposed to being able to do couch dances in the main floor), also prevents the formation of the kind of dancer/customer bonding through the night that I like. You also tend to a feel a little sorry for the girls left on the main floor while the others are upstairs doing privates...like the last kids picked at baseball. So, if you were to put together a list of ingredients that a good sc should have, IS would get a check mark by every one. But sometimes the whole is less than the sum of its parts, and that's the case here. But Ava and Rosa both give excellent dances...well worth the $55 and a nice tip. By the way, they did run a three-for-$45 special while I was there.

That's IBTC...but you already knew that.

Sorry, RL, every time that I have been with a dancer that I wanted to kiss on the mouth, she has always beaten me to it. Hasn't this been your experience, too?

"BTW, my ATF is 5-5, A-cup, shoulder-length brown hair. Everybody thinks she's Hispanic too, especially when she puts red highlights in her hair which she often does, because she has the coloring and the round face, she even has a Hispanic-sounding first name" FONDL, I thought that you and I were cyber-buddies, and here you come along teasing me with the shit set out above. Someday, perhaps I will find your ATM's little sister. Or, perhaps I will save up my pennies and contingency fees for a trip to Houston or El Paso.

Sorry, guys, for feeding the troll. I just got out of a four hour long doctor's deposition, and I am in a strange mood...just couldn't resist. I'll try to restrain myself in the future.

How about superfluous? I'm glad to see that seven years of higher education weren't entirely wasted.) Natural for me, and I actually think that a set of perky A's beats an indifferent set of B's.

I have no intention of stepping into a fight between AB and davids, so nothing I say here has any relation to their ongoing discussion. With respect to the effect of high gas prices on the economy, I would merely point out that, as compared to the early 80s, when oil hit its inflation-adjusted high of about $100 a barrel, the U.S. economy was much more dependent on oil than it is now. I saw some source recently that claimed that, per unit of GNP, the US economy uses 1/2 the oil it did in the early 80s, due to increased automobile fuel efficiency, the decline in manufacturing (obviously, a mixed blessing, that), increased efficiency in fuel used for heating and cooling, electronic transmission of data that once could only be physically transported, etc. I do think, however, that other economic trends should bring down the real cost of dances. It seems clear to me that the labor market is sorting itself out between low wage, relatively unskilled work, and people in the "knowledge workforce," with a transfer of wages from one to the other, and a gutting of the middle class. (Keep in mind that I am no ranting liberal...I am a hard-core Republican who was only prevented by term limits from voting three times for Ronald Reagan.). I read in a newspaper article today a quote from dancer who said that there was no other job she could work besides dancing in which she, as a single mother, could support her two children in a relatively comfortable lifestyle, working a reasonable number of hours. I don't think that it is a coincidence that over the last ten years, a number of strip clubs have sprung up in small towns that have seen a loss of the small manufacturing plants that used to provide relatively good wages for low- to medium-skilled workers. If my idea is correct, then you should see some young women who previously could get factory work going to work as dancers. The interesting dynamic is that the same forces that could cause more women to dance could also reduce the number of men who can afford the luxury good of spending time (and money) at strip clubs. Others who have posted on this board have commented on the decrease in customers with the decline of the expense account, the end of the internet bubble, and political correctness taking over business entertaining, with a possibly related increase in "extras" as the same (or a greater ) number of dancers compete for a declining number of customer dollars. From a customer's point of view, the next ten years look bullish. The wild card is, of course, the moralist side of the Republican Party, who might drop a turd in the punchbowl with legislatiion that puts a barrier between otherwise willing buyers and willing sellers of dancers' services. Or, I could be full of shit.

FONDL is right, we are all over the place on this one. I will take slightly more chances that he will, but I recognize that as certain benefits go up, so do the chances of an adverse result including, but not limited to, disaster.

I'm with the libertarian, "Don't tread on me," "Get the government off our backs" wing of the GOP. Doubtful that anything other than hard cold cash will lead to the desired results.

Remember, Mailman, it's not just $5.00, because to spend $5.00, they need to make $5.00 after taxes....oh, never mind.

I see the big concerns, in no particular order, as AIDS, law enforcement, and being set up for robbery with attendant physical assault. All of these can be controlled to some extent, but none can be completely eliminated. After the possible controls are put into place, to-wit: AIDs-> condoms Law enforcement--> A dancer who is well-known to you. Robbery/assault--> Meeting in a fairly public place where you have at least as much control over the environment as the other person; It comes down to each man's personal risk tolerance. At least this is what I hear from the older boys.

As usual, FONDL, you raise many good points. I'm afraid that my small government wing of the GOP may have bitten the dust somewhere around the time that Barry Goldwater died, and ROnald Reagan know longer knew who he was (or that he was). There are still a few, but there are thin on the ground, and mostly in the western states. I am certainly no fan of the current administration, with its expansion of Medicare, further federal forays into the state bailiwick of education, etc. Some liberals, especially feminists, are also strongly opposed to sc's, but liberals have so little actual power any more that it's hard to hold them accountable for any actual governance, except in a few isolated places. I blame the feminists/liberals for the crappy club scene in Minn/St. Paul and Madison, WI. Maybe that is what is going on in MASS. As for Indiana, if you think of conservatism as involving moral control, it is a paradox. If you think of conservatism as involving maximal personal freedom, consistent with minimizing negative social externalities (i.e., not subjecting unwilling parties to the effects of the activities of willing parties), then the glorious strip club environment is entirely consistent with the longstanding Republican orientation of that state (A historical footnote: Indiana is the only state that voted the same way in the 1896 and 1996 presidential elections; every other state that was in the union at the time of both elections changed parties over the intervening century. Obviously, Indiana voted Republcan both years). I think that this busybody aspect of government comes from the fact that local and state governments don't have any money anymore, but legislatures still want to have something to do. The cheapest legislation a deliberative body can pass is that which tells other people what to do.

DandyDan: My favorite club in the KC area is Bonita Flats, about 25 miles SW of KC, across the Kansas line. A little rough, but great dances. Unfortunately, no private dance areas, for those to whom that is important.

Foxxy: I have heard of such clubs as you describe in SOuth Oz. It has been my good fortune never to stumble into one, in part because of the guidance that I get on this board. In strip club terms, I seek restaurants; what you describe are food museums.