Prostitute vs dancer

Yoda, I used to like 2 different Providence clubs but I don't remember their names. One was near a big hospital a couple blocks off of I-95, and was very fancy with bouncers in tuxes and valet parking, it had an upstairs topless room and a smaller downstairs nude room (for $10 extra) and really attractive young dancers. The other was just off of I-295 just west of town and a little less fancy but also had very attractive young girls. I could have been a regular in either of those places.

I'll admit if the dancer is hot, and I have some $$ to spend, that I'll check out the menu if it's offered. But, I don't initiate the contact or the rules; I always make sure the dancer sets the limits on what she'll allow. (I admit I have done some CFS in H-Town in the past, but always with a raincoat.)

I've had fun at clubs where I knew many of the strippers 'like to play', as they put it, but without going for FS. Most of the time, that's how I approach getting a lap dance.

For example, I was in Houston Saturday afternoon at Treasures and I decided to get a set of 2 dances from a hot looking dancer. Anyway, she let me suck on her tits and feel her ass, which is what most clubs allow in that town, and she was grinding me good. Now here comes the odd part: she asked me after the two songs "Did I want to play?"

I turned her down, even though I was tempted. I was mildly surprised because I didn't even ask for anything approaching full service when I met her, but I surmise that since many clubs in H-Town do offer the full menu, she was checking to see if I would do too.

Besides, even though I had a raincoat available, I didn't go to Treasures to f++k, when you can go to spas for less cash for the same thing.

I don't have a favorite club in Providence right now. I have favs in 4 different places and I pick a club based on who I feel like seeing. When you prefer older dancers you tend to wind up switching clubs when they do. For years I only went to Club Fantasies because that's where my first ATF worked. Eventually she moved on and I tried some other places. They all have something to offer. I think you would probably like Fantasies or the Cadillac Lounge. They both have beautiful women and comfortable areas in which to spend time with them.

Yoda, I agree with your last statement, that's been my experience too. But it doesn't bother me when a girl recites her rules at the beginning, I actually prefer that, especially in places where the rules are fairly murky and vary greatly from girl to girl. I often ask about rules before I commit to buying a dance if I'm unfamiliar with the place, just so there 's no misunderstanding. I don't usually buy dances if I have to sit on my hands, and I like to know that in advance.

BTW, what's you favorite Providence Club? I haven't been there lately and am out of touch.

In spite of my previous statements on this topic I HATE girls who recite their "rules" as I sit in the chair anticipating what is supposed to be a sensual experience.
Concuct during a lap dance is pretty simple. You let the dancer call the shots. If you are respectfull and clean she will put forth her best effort in order to get as much of your money as possible. If you don't like what she does or allows you to do on the first dance then don't buy another one. The wildest experiences I have ever had in an LD where all initiated by the dancer and always within the first song.

When I say that I ask permission, I don't mean that literally. As Shadowcat correctly points out, I assume that certain behaviors on her part imply permission for me to do certain things. But when I'm with a new girl I usually do ask up front what her rules are. The answers tend to fall into three categories: (1) some girls will immediately tell me in detail what her rules are; (2) some will tell me what the club rules are but follow it up by saying she doesn't care what I do as long as no one is watching; (3) and some will avoid the question saying that they don't like to discuss rules in advance, it spoils the mood. I don't really care how they answer, it's my asking that is important to me, because then if I do something that they don't like it's their fault not mine. I've only ever had one girl get mad at me, which was many years ago, and I still have no idea why. I think she just had an attitude problem.

Yoda, you're response sounded angry even if you didn't mean it that way.

While I haven't been following this thread due to its dead-horse-flogging title, I have to echo what AbbieNormal posted a while back about rules and consent. I'll even go a step further and say that it kills a bit of my buzz when a dancer states her rules at the outset of the dance. It's like being told what I'm getting for Christmas before I open the package. Discovering just what can happen during the dance is a big part of the thrill for me. So much so that I'd almost prefer getting to third base that way over her telling me in advance that home is mine for the taking. Almost.

in the club i worked at, whilst we certainly weren't encouraged to hit, kick, etc customers who broke the rules, management had an understanding that if someone tries to sexually abuse you, the first reaction for a lot of people is to swing a fist. i did club work for 2.5 years, and in that time i only became physically violent with 3 people. one girl kept squealing with laughter and screaming out "look how fat she is" while i was dancing on stage, so i slapped her and pushed her into a table. one guy tried to grab me and push me down while i was in the private LD room, i kicked him in the shin, scratched him and pushed him into a wall. the bouncers really hurt that fucker, hah. and i once punched some fat chick in the face because i was talking to a group of guys at a table, and she reached from behind, stuck her hand up my skirt and grabbed my crotch, thinking it was funny and ok because she's a girl. i never got into any trouble for that, i guess because everyone knows i'm not usually a violent person at all, and because they realise that in situations like that, sometimes you just snap.

i'm not saying that i think it's ok to hit everyone who pisses you off. but strippers do put themselves in a very vulnerable situation, and security can't be there all the time. because i'm very very strict on my no contact rule, i have to be constantly alert and watching the guys hands. i think if a customer actually touched me between the legs, i'd kill them.

if someone tried to sexually abuse me in the street, at a nightclub, anywhere, i'd hit them or fight back. i'm very clear at the beginning of a dance about my rules, there's signs posted all over the club and in the LD rooms reading "strictly no touching the girls at all times" and they announce it over the microphone all the time. but if some asshole STILL can't get it that he's not allowed to touch me after all that, then i think he deserves a smack in the face.

FONDL: I'm glad that you agree with me but your way off if you think I'm angry at anyone posting here. I'm posting my opinion like I always do. The rest of you guys can poke and prod at will if it makes you feel good about yourselves. As far as I'm concerned, it's abusive and unacceptable behavior.

LapFanM20: I agree with you that dancers should be disciplined for abusing customers. Why shouldn't customers be held to the same standard?

Yoda, dont know where you worked but every club I have ever been in, and it has been a few across the country including most of the states you mentioned, if the dancer Smacked , hit, kicked or punched a customer (with out them specifically asking them to) would be fired.
If a customer gets out of line it is the bouncers job to handle that customer (and a bouncer who hits or punches a customer without provication is not only in risk of getting fired, but arrested for assult as well)
Plus the club owbers really dont like the cops having to come to the club, hey to many calls constitutes a public nuisance and the place gets closed on a permanate basis.

Yoda: I guess you want all customers to sign some kind of agreement that he/she will not touch any part of the stripper's body unless invited to do so. I like to experiment to see what is allowed and what is not. If I go for the breasts or the kitty and get a rebuff then I don't attempt that again. Lately before I get dances from a dancer I don't know I'm asking what her dance rules are and I honor them. For instance one dancer replied that she didn't want hands down the panties but when I tried to rub the panties she drew back and I responded my hand is not down your panties. She responded you're a man and you're gonna break the rules which is what men always do.
Another dancer said she didn't like her breast touched too much so I didn't touch them too much but when I did touch them she didn't slap or punch me or kick me in the balls. Actually she said nothing to me wqhen I did feel her breasts.
When you've touched, kissed or sucked on a nipple were you asked to do so by the dancer or did you ask permission to do so?

I'm not sure who I may or may not be disagreeing with but I think there is some context here. If you were in a regular resturaunt staring at a waitresses chest or butt that might be considered rude. If the resturaunt were Hooters, it'd be normal. If it were Scores, it'd be expected. While getting tactile is a little different I have to admit that I've usually relied on acquiescence equals consent standard rather than the ridiculous verbal consent standard. Having to ask and receive verbally permission for every act just kills the mood. I usually ask what the rules are if it's a new club, but I've found that the stated rules are usually more strict than what you are really allowed by the dancers, but they are required to state the rules. I will try or not try things based on the permissiveness of the club I'm in. If it is a commonly a fully nude full grind full contact club, I admit I usually won't think twice about trying to caress some breasts and butt. If the club is typically lighter contact I may try to test the dancers limits very slowly (giving her plenty of notice what I am intending to do) and if my hand gets moved away, it won't wander back without some sort of noticable change in the dances. (In other words, if the first dance was a light grind and my hand was moved when trying to cop a feel, but by the fourth she's handling willy and pushing nipples in my mouth, I may just try touching her breasts a second time.)

Yoda, I agree with you completely. And I think just about everyone else here does to, so I think your anger here is misplaced. I always ask a girl what her rules are in advance, and then I follow them. I think most everyone else here does pretty much the same thing. I'm not into extreme contact, but I don't like clubs or girls that allow none either. I also have a problem when girls lead me to believe that they will allow certain things and then they don't. Fortunately I don't run into that very much.

Sorry to all of you guys who seem to think that grabbing a woman's breasts at will is ok but it's just not. I don't care what freekin state your in or who does what. Unless a dancer makes the first move your crossing a line. What gives you the right to assume that EVERY woman wearing a g-string in a particular club is comfortable with being molested just because one or two may allow it? Now, I've squeezed MANY breasts over the years, sucked on hundreds of nipples and engaged in all sorts of behavior with dancers that would get me thrown out of the boyscouts but it was never without the lady's OK.

dancers are fantasy prostitutes, not all of them agree to be actually penetrated, but whatever moral justification makes them feel better is fine by me. Long as I keep getting good dances.

Foxxy: I have heard of such clubs as you describe in SOuth Oz. It has been my good fortune never to stumble into one, in part because of the guidance that I get on this board.

In strip club terms, I seek restaurants; what you describe are food museums.

ahh, ok. i'm not sure if it's an australia-wide thing but i know in the state i live in, touching, penetration of any kind, etc is really illegal. hell, in the club i worked at i saw my boss actually throw a girl's suitcase down the stairs and scream at her to "get the fuck out you dirty fucking whore" because she got busted kissing a customer in the VIP room. even opening our legs once we had our thong off was discouraged.

makes me realise how naive i am to it all... i honestly had no idea that there were clubs like that out there. i don't understand why girls would bother stripping somewhere like that and doing that kind of stuff... why not just be an escort or work in a massage place or something? i dunno... it all kinda fascinates me really

lol

seriously, from what i've read on here and on the stripperweb forums, i think i was working at the tamest strip club on the planet!

Foxxy, there are plenty of clubs like that in the US in places like Washington,DC; northern Virginia; Massachusetts and many other areas. We just don't waste our time going to them, we drive to towns and states that allow some fun.

being a dancer myself, i have a largely different view to most of you.

i'm going to be completely honest and say right away that from what i've read in the other topics, i'm the kind of stripper that the majority of you would hate. i'm constantly using the "i'm a dancer, not a prositute" line. why? because that's exactly how it is, for me anyway. at the club i worked at, in south australia, any kind of contact is STRICTLY forbidden. if a guy was to grab my breast during a dance, i'd kick the shit out of him. but then again, i don't "grind" on laps. i don't dirty talk or nibble ears or let anyone lay so much as a finger on any part of my body. i have never met a customer OTC for anything, i don't discuss my sex life with customers. in the private lap room, i dance seductively while taking my clothes off. yeah i'll sit on his lap but i certainly don't grind or do anything that comes even remotely close to getting him off, and while i am dancing for him his hands stay down the sides of the chair at all times. i don't engage in the typical "stripper shit", and i'm usually what someone referred to in another topic is a "hit and run girl". i'm not one for conversation or befriending customers for money, i'm not one to hug & kiss my regulars, i have the attitude that i'm there to get paid to dance naked, if you would like to look at me then give me money and i will do my job.

so for me, being that i simply dance naked and nothing else, the "i'm a stripper not a prosititute" line is totally applicable. but regardless of that, there is a very fine line between stripping and prostitution. some girls would probably see grinding on your groin until you cum totally fine, but would get angry at you for trying to touch her. like someone said above, maybe it's a control thing. i don't know. i've never been in that situation. i guess where you draw that line is a totally personal thing, and varies between each person, be it dancer or customer.

Actually it was Yale that had the prostitution ring. Brown had "The Ivy League Stripper" who wrote a book.

Shekitout, Yoda is from the People's Republic of Massachusetts, which is about as lame a SC state as there is out there. But he spends a lot of time in nearby RI, which is quite good. I've fondled boobs many times in several different Providence clubs and nobody ever cared, but maybe they've become more strict in enforcing their rules lately. Providence isn't Philly but it's not bad, especially if you like a lot of very attractive young college girls. You may recall that Brown University was famous for it's college girl prostitution ring some years ago.

You know it is always curious, go to a club, any club and talk to a girl and they will normally tell you how all the other girls are whores but of course she is not even when you know from other guys that have been there in the past or maybe your own previous experiience with this same girl that she is just as quick to be giving HJ & BJ or even FS as any of the of the rest.

And they will all say that about all the other girls.

I remember a club I used to go to had this girl who was the type I liked, something like the second or third time I took her into VIP and with no prompting from me she is all the sudden undoing my pants and starts fucking me with her tits and then sucking on my dick, another time, I figure it will be a repeat performance and she all the sudden is fucking me.

This was not a club where extras were the norm and maybe one other girl ever did as much as play with my dick through my pants.

Yoda: You need to come to the Carolinas if you're getting your face slapped & kicked in the nuts by dancers or getting thrown out of the club by the boucers for merely touching a dancer's breasts-unless you don't want to touch a dancer's boobs, butt or kitty. Are the dancers in the clubs you frequent allowed to touch you & do they? To almost quote Horace Greeley: Go South, young man, go South!

Lap dancing is "protitutionis interruptus." Hey, it's sexy behavior for money.

If you look at things from the perspective that anyone who sleeps with someone of the opposite sex for 1 million dollars is a prostitute, I believe 85 to 95 percent of the entire population consists of prostitutes. I believe most guys would be willing to have sex with a number of females if they were paid much less than a million.

A guy says to a dancer "Will you sleep with me for a million dollars?" Of course she looks at him and says "Sure, if you have a million dollars I'll sleep with you." The guy says, "OK, how about for $200?" "What do you think I am?, snaps the dancer, "some kind of whore!?" "We've already established that." says the guy, "Now we're just haggling over the price." The definition of a prostitute is then someone who will do more for less than you will. (This is a joke, of course not all women are prostitutes...)

I think that trust is a big factor but don't forget that most dancers will "losen up" over the years as they get more and more used to being naked or grinding on a lap.

Sorry, Shadowcat, maybe it ws Yoda who said that, anyway I think I read it here not long ago. I agree that doing whatever the norm is in a particular club is fine. If a girl has stricter rules than the norm for her club, she should tell you that up front, before you commit to a dance.

Every dancer I've ever known defined "prostitute" as any girl willing to do more for money than she does. I've known a lot of dancers who went out with a customer after hours because he was extra nice to them and treated them really well and they liked him. Does that make them prostitutes? I think "prostitute " is one of those terms that you can't define. Like "pornography." Everyone has a different working definition. And that definition changes depending on the person and the situation.

Yoda, I don't know about the other states that you mentioned, but I know of many clubs in PA where hands on breasts is considered a standard part of a lap dance. I've run into that in many other states as well. It all depends on the club.

Sheikitout: What clubs do YOU go to and where do you get off thinking it's OK to touch a dancer's breasts without her OK? I'd advise you to stay out of clubs in RI, Massachusetts, California, Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Arizona for starters. I've been to clubs in all of those states and there is no breast fondling allowed. When it happens I've seen, among other reactions, the guy getting slapped, spit on, kicked in the nuts, dragged out of the club or beat up by bouncers. That doesn't mean it never happens but only when the dancer decides it's OK. Not when the customer decides he's going to act like a jerk.

A veteran dancer once told me that by her estimate about 60-70% of dancers will cross the line and have sex for money at some point in their career. This included in the club and OTC, but didn't include what she considered "part of the job" things like letting the occasional guy hide a finger or take a quick lick of the kitty. She also considered getting a guy off in a lapdance part of the job as long as willy wasn't free. The caveat she said was that this might happen only once for one dancer, or it might happen on a regular basis for another. The reasons could vary from being late on the rent to having a cute customer just after breaking up with a boyfriend. The trick was to find the right dancer on the right night. Of the 30 to 40% who never will cross the line she said most of them have too much self image tied up in not crossing that line to ever be convinced to do so. A lot of those girls she said tend to consider anyone who goes further than they do a prostitute, so seeing the ones they consider whores making better money can make some of them bitter and defensive.

My technique is to always ask a new (to me) dancer what her rules are in advance. If she won't tell me, and I've found that to be pretty common, I move ahead slowly and make it obvious where I'm heading to give her plenty of time to stop me when I approach her limits without it causing either of us any discomfort. I've encountered a problem doing this.

Yoda: I didn't "grab her boob". I merely softly squeezed it. What clubs do you visit that you run a risk of being kicked in the balls or getting bounced for touching a dancer? I'll definitely stay away from those clubs.
tiffany1: She didn't tell me not to touch her breasts-I gathered she didn't want 'em touched by the way she would move away when I tried to touch her breasts. She should have stated her boundaries prior to the dances if she had boundaries. If a dancer tells me before hand what her boundaries are I honor those boundaries but to have to discover what they are for yourself is a bit much. I guess I better ask not only how much the dances are but what are her "rules".
I have never considered the dancers to be prostitures per se but I know some are.

FONDL: Wise choice....and a good way to get rid of a pain-in-the-neck dancer....

Wasn't it Shadowcat who some time ago described dancers as "R-rated prostitutes"? I think that is an aptexcellent description of many of them. But I'd never tell a dancer that unless I was trying to get rid of her.

You're trying to impose logic on a situation that is beyond the realm of logic. Some girls will glady do X but not Y; some will gladly do Y but not X. And some will do X on Tuesday but not on Thursday. It may make no sense to anyone but the specific girl, but that doesn't matter, that's the way it is. Trying to make any sense of it is a waste of time. Either accept it or move on.

BTW, there are no dancers who think they are prostitutes. Doesn't matter if they occasionally take money in exchange for sex, in their mind they're only doing it because they like the specific guy at that specific moment, and the money is incidental. In their mind they are dancers, not prostitutes. There is nothing to be gained by arguing the point.

You're being much too literal in your interpretation of her remarks. If you're dealling with reality and straight forward logic there's no such thing as one-way contact. When two people touch, each touches each other. But, she's not dealing with logic, she's dealing with control. If she initiates the contact, she's the one in control. Her I'm not a prostitute comment is a euphemistic way saying, "I'm the boss, now shut up and do what I tell you."

Shekitout - unless it was specifically agreed upon before the dance, anytime you continue to do something a dancer tells you not to do, you're the asshole not the dancer. She said that because you didn't respect her boundaries. You're actually lucky you didn't get bounced.

Some Dancers are prostitutes and some prostitutes are dancers. Being one doesn't make you both by default. If you don't know the difference by now you never will. If I was a dancer and you grabbed my boob without any promting from me I would have kicked you in the balls and gone for the bouncer.