Do Strippers Kid Themselves about their Customers Likely Financial Situations?

Davids...you're right...sortta. I didn't ask her to stay because I think i've got a shot with her or that she's hot or something...actually her attitude makes her unattractivde to me, no matter what she looks like...I'd just like her to stay so the board continues to have plethora opinions...but hey, if she left...no biggie.

They care if someone is spending more than they can afford about as much as Best buy cares if you pay $4,000 for that big screen but your kid hasn't had milk in two days. They are not gamblers annoymous. hate to sound cold but if you spend more at a club than you can afford, your an adult and its your own damn fault

mailman: If one lives by the philosophy of "Stripper Logic" then contradictions are not a problem. Contradictions induce fantasy and fantasy is good.

Man, you guys put up with too much BS from these strippers, even in cyberspace. What is this an online SC? Stripper gets a little criticism can't take it; throws a tantrum; threatens to leave; and all the regulars run up to kiss her ass. How about a little tough love: Stripper threatens to leave, let her walk.

"Dancers are not in denial, I am a dancer myself and I have seen many a guy lose their electricity because they would rather spend it at the club. These people HAVE A PROBLEM. I have hinted at it to some guys that they are spending a pretty penny, but then again they pay MY bills and I do not force them to come to the club. Yes its sad to see some of these guys go through great lengths to spend money at the club, but I live on tips and tips alone. If I don't make money at work, I lose my electricity as well." This is an exact copy of Jabberwocky's post that I found objectionable. It certainly appears to me that she admits to knowing the guys in question HAVE A PROBLEM. She seems to contradict herself in paragraph one of her last post. So which is it? If you don't know there is a problem, then I have no problem with you dancing and making money. My issue is when you KNOW there is a PROBLEM, and just don't give a damn. And for the record, I have never joined the camp that thinks all strippers are bad or hopelessly flawed people. Quite the contrary. I've met many who are good and decent people. Nobody (including me) is perfect, but I just don't think we should, as human beings, prey on the weakest among us. Jabberwocky: Don't take your toys (no pun intended) and go home. I'm sure you have some great insights and perspectives that would prove a valuable addition to our little world. If we don't have diiferences of opinion from time to time, we have nothing to talk about...

jabberwocky: Actually I have done that. How about you?

DavidS is never shy with his opinion. He regularly tells all of us we spend too much. Anything is too much apparently.

Jabberwocky, Ignore DavidS. We do. (Just kidding DavidS, you know that next to RomanticLover you are the board's most popular poster). I think Mailman probably over-reacted, as I said, it's a tough medium. It is possible to read your post as saying "screw 'em, I gotta pay the rent", but I didn't see it that way. I think it was the bit about losing electricity that set him off, but in general he's a good poster. I think your post was closer to my philosophy that we usually don't know for sure, even though we suspect, but our options are limited. As for Chitown, he's a lawyer. He's required to be cynical and jaded. Oddly a lot of us like him anyway. I kid, I kid because I love. I will say one more thing about the bartender analogy. Once again I know this sounds cold. Usually, I couldn't afford to give a shit. I served 80-100 people a night sometimes (unlike a dancer I could do quite a few at the same time). Of those I usually had about 20ish who were regulars. Some were great, others not so much, but I could not get emotionally or, what shall we say, "morally" involved with so many people and stay sane. As I said, I'm sure I served people who shouldn't have been served, but rarely did I have the luxury to reflect on it at the time. Taat said, there are bars that cater to alcoholics, there are dancers that prey on guys. I have no sympathy for them.

I think it was very presumptuous of you to assume that I KNOW when guys have a problem. Unless someone says out of the blue they have a problem, I will never know for sure, and this has never happened. Even though I've seen guys come back day after day and spend more and more money, I haven't a clue if he's spending his last dime or barely tapping into a huge bank account. As I said before I have to assume and then I hint, because I am not one of those people to get involved with somebody's drama-- as I would not want people I didn't know getting involved with mine. The real responsibility would be on family and friends, not complete strangers.

If people ask me for a dance, and unless they've been rude or done something mean, it is my job to dance for them. Dancing is still a job; if a manager sees me not doing any work and ignoring a paying customer as AbbieNormal stated out (with a wonderfully written post) I don't want to jeopardize my job.

I'm sure mailman enjoyed this conversation, all he has done is put me down because I have a different opinion then him. Some of you are so very mature thinking that us dancers have "stripper logic," and that we're bad people, yet you are here on a Strip Club list-- isn't that a hypocritical?

Anyways I am done with talking on this discussion board. You can all think what you want of dancers and think we're bad people for all I care. And you know if you think that the righteous path is to tell complete strangers how to spend their money, maybe next time you are in a club, and you pick up on a man who is spending over his limit and has a problem, it should be you who should confront him.

Well, in a spirit of compromise I probably was a bit harsh to say that denying service was the minimum Mailman found acceptable. I'll say that the internet is a tough medium, since as Will Smith says in "Hitch", "Sixty percent of all human communication is nonverbal, body language; 30% is your tone, so that means 90% of what you're saying ain't coming out of your mouth." It is easy to be misunderstood, and things sometimes come across as far more hostile or critical than they were intended. I'll also this was not a small matter to me at one point in my life, and I'm still not completely sure I did the right thing. At the time I couldn't jepordize my job by denying paying customers service.

I think that part of the issue here is that I was initially addressing a specific poster and their attitude, and now my specific comments to her are being generalized... I responded in the first place because of an attitude I detected from her post. I'm sure she's a nice enough person, but her post sounded like a totally selfish person only looking out for Number 1 to the detriment of those whom she KNOWS has a PROBLEM (her word). I realize I can be idealistic, but it just rubs me wrong when people are self absorbed to the point of rationalizing reprehensible behavior. I understand the bartender analogy, but when you served someone who was probably an alcoholic, I don't imagine your rationale included "oh well, he's ruining his life, but I'm gonna let him because it will improve mine." So fine, don't deny drinks or dances to those who obviously have a PROBLEM. Just don't have a purely selfish motive for doing it. I have enjoyed the discussion on this.

We have more agreement than we think on this topic. First, it isn't the dancer's responsibility to find out where the money comes from or how much a guy can afford. Second, some guys have a problem with spending too much. Third, some strippers will capitalize on that. The whole disagreement seems to be in the very rare case where a dancer knows a guy spends more than he can afford. Jabberwocky says she does let the guy know, subtly, that he has a problem or should maybe cut back if she becomes aware he is spending too much. It seems to be Mailman's contention that nothing less than refusing to dance for him is acceptable, although he does agree that ultimately it is the customer's responsibility. I think the best analogy is a bartender and an alcoholic. I served a lot of people I suspected were alcoholics when I was a bartender. I tried never to serve anyone who was drunk. My feeling was that you can cut off a guy who has had too much that night, but denying someone service at all is a tougher nut. Yes, he will just go somewhere else, and no a lecture from a bartender will not stop his drinking. I didn't always feel good about it, but alternatives are pretty much serve him or don't. Mailman's standard would be nice, but I didn't feel it was right for me to impose my view of how often someone should drink just because I was behind the bar, if they came in sober with money, and this sounds cold I know, it was not really my buisness if that was the 5th day in a row. How much he drank at my bar in a night was as far as I felt comfortable going.

I stand behind each and every one of my former comments. Note that I DID SAY that we ALL are utimately responsible for our own decisions and actions...both patrons and strippers. But decisions are not made in a vacuum. Also, understand that I do not place strippers and drug dealers in the same category. I merely said that Jabberwocky's LOGIC was like that of a drug dealer's...and I believe it is. My sincere opinion...but not the end of the world...I still believe there are some strippers who are good people.

Control you intake of alcohol and lapdances. It's your responsibility. At least the bartender can, and under the law, should cut you off if you had too much to drink. A dancer has no legal or moral duty to cut you off.

Like I said....

I know you're all very eager to attack strawmen on this board, but can you at least read what mailman says before ascribing position to him which aren't his?

He never said strippers have a responsibility to find out if their customers are spending too much. He said it is ultimately the customer's responsibility. He said that if the strippers know about it and continue to take the money then they are pretty pathetic creatures. This is all quite obvious, except to strippers and their worshippers on this board, I guess.

I think the drug dealer analogy is good. Drugs are legal in some parts of the world.

The "If I don't do it someone else will" logic is pretty badly flawed. Can someone think for 10 seconds and post a counter example or will I have to? Jabberwocky? For bonus points find a counter example to "I have to do these bad things because I won't be able to pay my own bills if I don't".

Sheesh... I christen these stripper arguments and their way of thinking "Stripper Logic". Note that it, of course, is no logic at all.

I think an even better analogy than drug dealers would be a compulsive gambler. How would you feel about casino management who knew about compulsive gambling and instead of doing anything to educate such people instead schemed to make matters worse?

Like I say I am pretty sure the regulars dropping the big bucks and falling in love typically have some psychological problems: depression, social phobias, trouble dealing with maritial problems.

A couple of strippers I knew even confessed to knowingly allowing "mental challenged" customers to spend all their money on them.

No wonder strippers have such a bad rep and given their "Stripper Logic" aren't reknowed for being very bright!

Thanks for the comments themailman. So now it is my responsibility to account for all of my customers if they have a spending problem? Sorry its not in the job description. If a person walked into a furniture store and bought $4,000 in furniture that they could not afford, is it the salesman's responsibility to lecture the person? No. The salesperson will keep their mouth shut because it's rude and not their business, and they make their money on commission.

As I said before I hint to a person if I am aware of it. If they can't take a hint, then it's something they have to figure out on their own. A dancer lecturing a person is not going to change their mind. They'll probably just find a different girl who will pretend the person doesn't have a problem and willingly take their money.

Umm, not to sound like davids, but, I think that, like any good profit-maximizer, they really don't give a shit.

I have to disagree with the drug dealer analogy. Drug dealing is illegal. Buying drugs is illegal. Last I checked, buy a lap dance in a strip club was legal.

The question I pose is that how would a stripper know that a person is spending money they don't have? By how they dress? Frequency of visits? Amount spent? That doesn't necessarily mean anything. When I went more often than I should, I was dressed casually. Nothing great, but not rags or bad clothes. Also, it's not like I spend a large amount at one time.

Most dancers I know don't ask to many questions about where the money comes from or how much a customer has. As long as he's spending they are happy to take his money and that's exactly the way it should be. That doesn't mean they may not feel badly for a guy who over-extends himself financialy but restraint, common sense and self-control are the customer's responsibilty, not the dancers.

Jabberwocky... you sound like a real sweetheart. Your selfishness is only surpassed by your utter disregard for others. Your logic sound like that of a drug dealer. Don't make the mistake of absolving yourself from any and all complicity in this "problem", as you call it. Where is decency and regard for your fellow man? If you know there is a problem, but continue to capitalize on it for your own well-being, that makes you as pathetic as the poor bastard you're taking advantage of. I agree that we ALL are untimately responsible for our own actions, but if I KNEW that a dancer was totally ruining her life by being in the club, I wouldn't contribute to her demise by buying more and more dances, even if she was the best dancer ever. Maybe I still have a little heart left, though. Hope I never run into you.

Dancers are not in denial, I am a dancer myself and I have seen many a guy lose their electricity because they would rather spend it at the club. These people HAVE A PROBLEM. I have hinted at it to some guys that they are spending a pretty penny, but then again they pay MY bills and I do not force them to come to the club. Yes its sad to see some of these guys go through great lengths to spend money at the club, but I live on tips and tips alone. If I don't make money at work, I lose my electricity as well.

Yes, my limitation is the fact that I don't want to deal with some shit that could come from patronzing local clubs, although I hear they are quite good (to quote an old mentor, "hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue). The closest decent strip club outside of my immediate area is two hours away, and Favorite CLub is three hours away. I generally spend 4-6 hours at the club when I go, and an overnight is usually involved. That 10-12 hour commitment limits the frequency of my visits, other than what I can fit in on sporadic and unpredictable business trips. I end up going to a club about once a month, which for me is about right. It's still an interesting and enjoyable experience at that pace, and not a routine thing.

There wil lalways be guys who get too caught up. I limit my self to two visits a month, one if I spend too much on the first. Perspective folks. At risk of sounding like RL, they ain't gonna marry you, and if they are, they'll come to you.

In the book "Lapdancer" the author, a photographer who worked a year as a dancer, reports the story of a dancer who broke off with a regular because she knew--somehow--that he was spending way too much money because of emotional issues.

While I never got to bankruptcy, when I started going to strip clubs, I went way too often. I spent a considerable amount of money there too. I cannot imagine how much I spent there. I was able to pay my bills, but that was about it. I didn't always pay the balance on my credit card but that was about it.

What brought my out of it was that I totalled my car and had to get a new one. My parents had to help me out with that - so what was my strip club money was going to them to pay for their loan. I'm way more responsible about my visits - which are less often than then.

But to the topic at hand, none of the girls at the club said anything about me spending too much time or money there. Maybe it was because I spread the wealth, I don't know. I didn't spend large amounts at one time, but several times a week added up. I'm sure that the girls I spent time with fell in the #2 and #3 catagory that davids mentioned. You can usually tell who the #4's are. Too bad I could not find a #1.

You are right that most strippers probably have enough conscience to not want to see their customers starving. (However there are definitely those who could care less.)

I think most are able to, and do occasionally, run the estimates of how much their customers are spending and conclude that it is not sustainable for normal guys. At this point they are forced with the following moral dilemna:

1. they can have the guts to stand up to their customer and tell them they think they have a problem and will not contribute to it
2. they can imagine and make themselves beleive that their customers are rich and can afford it
3. they can tell themselves that the customer is indeed behaving self destructively but it is not their responsibility to get involved
4. the most sinster ones can do things to accelerate the process. Some will rationalize that customer will self destruct anyway, and their money might as well be put to good use: e.g. feeding her own children or deadbeat boyfriend.

I have done extensive scientific measurments, including having interviewed ever stripper alive. I have also consulted psychics to contact all strippers who are no longer alive. From this I have exact numbers as to what percentage of strippers have follow each course above. The numbers are as follows

1. 5%
2. 45%
3. 45%
4. 5%

Denial. I imagine. We can convince ourselves to believe most anything that we really want to believe. Strippers want to believe their customers are rich because she wants more and more money. If she admits he may not be rich, then she has to admit the money may come to a end, and she just can't deal with that possibility. I do, however, have a little faith in the human spirit. I don't think there are many strippers who want to intentionally bankrupt anyone and ruin their lives. I'm sure there are some completely evil stippers, just like there are some completely evil people in every area of life. I do think that trying some honesty would be refreshing. For instance, he tells her that money doesn't grow on trees, and she tells him she's never going to sleep with him. Everyone knows what to expect, so they can just let loose and have fun. Maybe I'm just idealistic...