discussion comment
20 years ago
I can't remember the exact words (this was several months ago), but she said something like how most are married, and looking for the attention that the wife doesn't give them. They are either looking for a lady listen to their problems, or carry out the fantasy of having an affair. Of the single ones, most are there out of lonliness, the remaining ones because they have money to blow. We're talking guys that hang around the club for several hours, not just the quick stop ins. Looking around the place, I'd say she had it about right (this was a small club just outside of LA).
I had already told her that I was from out of town visiting, so there was no point in trying to pull at my heart strings to make me a repeat customer of hers. She went on to criticize the current state of gender affairs in the US, how women don't respect men and only go after their money. I finally caved in for a dance a couple hours later, and she went to the DJ and *told* him to put on a 3 for 1. Ironically, part of the reason I check out new clubs is to see if I'll ever meet someone like her. Ahh..I hope she's doing well, whereever she is.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Here's her website by the way http://www.kristinastjames.com
She mentioned moving out of the LA area in December, so don't know what she's up to now.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Heh, good detective work, Kyle. I'd say you have a smoking gun. Care to respond, RL?
And for what it's worth, I really have no objection to the above statement. A few PLs in a row, and I'm sure any dancer feels the same way on some nights.
But if any dancer ever told me that to my face, I'd remind her that any other job paying that well requires a college education, several years experience, waking up before 7 AM 5 days a week, doing really boring tasks, and being pleasant to people you don't like.
She's free to give me a "reality check" any time, and I'll fire one right back.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Davids: I did hit the Vu last night, just got a later start than normal (usually I have dance lessons Weds. evening). I'm going to check out Honey's tonight, weather permitting.
Shadowcat: Yes, I realized after doing some research the next day that she was a pro and must have been the club's headliner for a couple months (which they hadn't advertised at all for some weird reason). The club told her to dance under a different name, and said she was a playboy playmate from Idaho. Maybe they were afraid of her taking money from the other girls, but that happend anyway.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Oh, and I don't think I'll ever be able to forget about her, no matter how hard I try. My girlfriend and I broke up few days earlier, so there I was stuck in shitty hotel room in suburban LA for a week. I took a wrong turn coming back from Hollywood and stumbled in to this little club expecting nothing, then ended up having one of the most memorable nights of my life.
discussion comment
20 years ago
The trouble that their in may not necessarily be due to anything illegal. I have plenty of friends who are in debt 10K - 50K (combination of student loans, credit cards, or bad investments). They pay hundreds each month on the interest alone, and when you're young and don't have money in the family, there aren't many options available for recovering. Others might not necessarily be in debt but can't find or hold down a good job and have to live week by week barely able to pay bills.
There was a special on porn stars on HBO last night (can't remember the name, sorry) and when asked why the female stars started, all cited desperate need for money due to above reasons, or just the desire to be financially independent doing something they didn't have a huge problem with.
discussion comment
20 years ago
I would be curious to get some real numbers on what the story is with strippers and what got them in the business and keeps them there. I'm not the best to guess, but here goes (note these would overlap):
Single mothers - 60%
Severe financial problems - 30%
Drug addicts - 25%
Leech boyfriends / husbands / family members - 20%
Actual college students - 15% (varies of course by location)
Those who would still dance if it paid the national average salary - 1%
Those who don't want to cry when grinding on an fat, dirty, rude guy for $20 - 0.000001%
discussion comment
20 years ago
I don't doubt that at all. Even when I heard my ex-porn star with the golden heart talk in LA, you could tell that while she probably felt genuinely perturbed about gender relations, she also felt pity for the individuals for falling into the trap of coming to a club, expecting too much, and wasting their money. I'm sure a dancer with less money and less experience would put it more bluntly.
discussion comment
20 years ago
I had a couple cases of brushing lips, then had my first full kissing session a couple months ago. I thought it was great at first, but the next week she barely remembered me, and the week after that she remembered my face but not name or what we talked about. Based on that, it was pretty clear that I wasn't the only one getting this type of treatment. I really didn't care about the other guys, but got a little freaked out last week when I came down with a nasty kanker sore. It cleared up fortunately, but got me thinking of the oral herpes risk and how it might not be worth it (then again you can get that from kissing your grandma or borrowing someone else's chapstick).
I don't think she kisses every guy she dances with, but know I'm not the only one getting extras for "free". As you might expect, she's the type that is selective in who she approaches and hits you with the extras without asking. Needless to say, both myself and every other guy I've seen her with goes at least 3 dances. So, I consider the kissing part of her sales strategy. If you like it and she's doing it, more power to you. I'm sure lots of guys would kill for a good kiss from their favorite. But, remember you're paying money for her time and are probably not the only one getting similar treatment.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Cool post, Mouse. Nice to remind us all that while there are lots of negatives to what a strip clubs sells (as covered abundantly in this week's posts), they do provide a useful service for those of us who understand the name of the game and know when enough is enough in terms of time, effort, and money.
And thanks for taking a stand for us young guys. Those sentences describe me perfectly. For stage dances, I like checking out the super hot chicks my age that I couldn't possibly land a date with. It's a fun fantasy, and nothing more. For conversation and private dances, I like the experienced dancer that's gonna turn me on, help turn her on, and give a little advice.
On a personal note, I used to be extremely shy and ended up spending lots of times in chat rooms, with the occassional date not going very well. I was just really tense, worried that if I said or did the wrong thing she'd be offended and I wouldn't get a next date. Even if I did get lucky, I'd be too nervous and overthinking everything to enjoy myself and make sure she felt good (I know some people are laughing reading this, but am quite sure I'm not alone here).
Hitting strip clubs has helped quite a bit, because it's a situation where you don't have to be afraid of screwing up (If you do, just move on to the next dancer or club). Yeah I know to watch out at first, but once I show them that I'm respectful, spend money, and am not delusional, they get pretty honest and helpful. It's been good practice for making converstation, reading people, and staying relaxed in a situation with sexual tension (even if the tension is artificial).
discussion comment
20 years ago
Mouse: Yeah I had meant to mention that you of course you have to continue a social life outside the club and see if your luck improves or not. Otherwise, it would be like spending a few hours in the kiddie pool and thinking you're now a better swimmer, when all you did was take a small step to get over fear of drowning.
There is of course the possibility that a stripper would deliberately build you up with false hopes so that you could get shot down with regular girls and come running back to her with a broken heart and open wallet. But this is about the lowest possible thing I could possibly imagine a stripper doing.
Honestly, I believe all *professional* strippers want their customers to have happy, healthy social and romantic lives outside the club, and just come there for the fun and fantasy. If they're good at selling that, they'll do just fine financially. It's the ones that are in it short term to get some money that you have to watch out for, since they'll either turn a blind eye to the facts or just don't care. Thought?
discussion comment
20 years ago
Yes, davids, please post. In the case of RL it's pretty obvious he became oblivious to the 'money' part and got in trouble. Your reviews seemed to indicate you knew what the deal was, spent money, and had fun. Kinda like me.
Was there a specific experience that changed your outlook, or was it just a combination of little things?
discussion comment
20 years ago
I consider it open-mouth kissing with hugging and some groping over the clothes. Basically it's the ultimate physical part you'd get as part of a GFE
discussion comment
20 years ago
Oh crap, that just made me throw up.
No seriously, at all the places that it's happend, the booths were fairly well-lit and open, so no even getting a HJ was quite a rarity. I'd definately avoid kissing at any place that had a 'reputation'
discussion comment
20 years ago
Kyle hits it on the mark for me - it's mileage, but attitude is big part too. You'd think the girls in their 20s would be friendlier towards someone their own age, but 9 times out of 10 I get the same treatment as a guy who's 50. The more experienced dancers seem warmer to you both before and after the dance, and seem happy when they pull in a younger guy. I had one who started jumping up and down before the dance (I had been using a hard sell on her all night) and did some cuddling afterwards. It was a nicer than hearing "let's go" and "take it easy" 3 minutes later. That kind of exchange really spoils the fantasy.
discussion comment
20 years ago
My brother is on Prozac for OCD, and my girlfriend is on it for Depression / Anxiety.
It's rather ironic that the main side effect of Prozac and similar medications is decreased sex drive and pleasure, yet many of us head to strip clubs when we need a little cheering up.
discussion comment
20 years ago
I wonder about the media, too. The above article is the first I've read to touch on the prostitution busts and police incidents that happen there. All other articles I've read assumed the club was clean and just trying to make sure their expansion plans were approved. Maybe that was just smooth PR work by the club and the officials who got caught though.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Oh, and if the activities or beliefs of the owners pose a direct threat to me (i.e. white supremecists own a store and I'm black), then of course the decision is simple. I'd be a complete fool to give them any money.
It's when what they do will probably never negatively affect me personally that it's a struggle of the conscious.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Pretty pointless post, there RL. I would have asked something like when you tip, is it just to show appreciation for a good dance, help her out, or to try and gain special attention? But let's go with davids's.
I try to be conscious of who owns the businesses I patronize. I don't care what race, religion, or nationality they are, but do care about their ethical and political beliefs. The reason is a porition of my dollar will go to the second I step in the door, and they may decided to give it to causes or purchase things that go against my values.
So, all things equal I'll go to the "clean" club and chose the dancers that are single moms. But you rarely get that choice. The clubs with dirty owners are usually more fun. That's where it gets to be a complicated decision. Those that say they'll spend money on an inferior product due to the owner being a scumbag, I admire.
discussion comment
20 years ago
I noticed most of the reviews here by anonymous rated either 1-3, or 9-10. Kinda makes sense, considering the people looking to either slam or praise a single club wouldn't have the patience to register.
I try to be objective and consider quality, quantity, friendliness, mileage, and cost. I think everybody considers them to some extend, but we'll all weigh them differently. That's fine, but I do wish everybody would list *why* they're giving it the mark so I could see if those areas are important to me or not.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Shit..that's a great idea.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Oh..if the editors of this site read this, I'd recommend not letting anonymous users post reviews. Part of the reason we joined this site and paid money was to get quality reviews from people who've been to more than one strip club. At least that's the case for me.
discussion comment
20 years ago
I noticed the '2' on Rick's yesterday and was going to mention it. When putting a rating on a club, should it be compared to clubs in the area or clubs on a national scale? Rick's has great quantity, above average quality, and high mileage dances. It's hard to say it's not the best in the state, but there's still a lot to be desired. I try to compare it to clubs in the area, and take in to account local laws.
discussion comment
20 years ago
I agree with Kyle, the "dirty" dancers most often improve mileage at the club, and are usually good news for those of us who want mileage without getting in to prostitution.
***However*** you're experiencing the common side effect - when there is a bust or crack-down, the girls get edgy and are scared they'll be snitched on or caught for doing anything that crosses a line. My guess is this will blow over in a couple weeks, and the market will return to normal. So, try a new club for a while, then stop back and see if things have settled back down.
Also, try and see how attentive the guy 'watching' the area is. At my place they sometimes have 3 guys performing this role, but they're just standing there BSing and talking to the DJ the whole time. If the dancers know this, most of them should be fairly relaxed.
discussion comment
20 years ago
At one of the clubs I frequent, there's a door at the back of the VIP lounge that leads to the employee break room (or something like that). I didn't notice this door until maybe the 3rd time I was there. Dancers mostly use it, but I was tucked back in the corner of the VIP room thinking when the door pops open and some random dude walks out. It was a little unnerving, although there's only a couple dirty girls at this club anyway (maybe that's why).