One question to ask yourself, would you still want a divorce even if you knew you'd never be in a committed relationship again for the rest of your life? If you're sure the answer to that is yes, it's definitely time to call it quits. Otherwise, you're deciding if you want to take the gamble that you can do better. You could try counseling, a trial separation.
Before you take any actions, sit down and have a long talk with her. It might be very painful to hear her out, but it’s important to begin with a talk. Listen to her, as there may be stuff she’s held inside for a long time.
After talking, don’t make rash decisions. Think about it, and decide if you can both work things out. Then discuss what might work best for both of you.
If it’s a done deal, try a trial separation. After a bit on your own, you will know if things are best left separate.
I remember reading a study a long time ago. People who viewed marriage as the end goal tended to stay married. You know, the “ for better or worse” crowd. People who viewed marriage as something to do as long as it was to their benefit almost always eventually got divorced. Makes sense. There will come a time in all marriages when being married sucks.
You ask how to know when it’s time to divorce. Half the country ( or maybe less ) would answer “ never”. Half the country ( or maybe more ) would answer “ when you would be happier not being married “.
Marriage can suck pretty bad for a period of time, but when you think of the other options it can seem pretty good. I know I want to be married, in spite of being nagged constantly it feels like you’re being pecked to death. Then I think how life would be single and blowing cash on two households instead of one and am setting up two sets of rules for the kids in those separate households, not for me.
I focus on all of the positive attributes the other half brings, because no human is perfect. Then I look at my own imperfections and try not to criticize myself either, since being human goes both ways. Life is akways about compromise, so hopefully both of you are giving to the relationship in a concerted effort. If neither of you are willing to work at it, or only one person is willing to improve your situation, then maybe it’s time to divorce, but make sure each party has been given plenty of time to make those efforts. It’s normal to have a few bad years, and you said the first 10 were great! Give it some time. Remember, most adults go through about a decade of depression from the challenges in life, don’t let that be an excuse to destroy your foundation.
I’m tired as hell all the time, but would be exhausted if I had to go on by myself and start all over with someone new. Being that I hope you see good out if your situation in your marriage.
As a space geneious and psychological geneious it is Phil’s phate to help you.
The first thing you must ask yourself is this: is my wife real or a figment of my imagination?
If the former, go see a marriage counselor. If the latter, just wait until somebody says they want to meet you and kick your ass because you insulted them. If that happens you can say “I’d meet up with you for a fight but I can’t because I’m divorcing my fictional wife and have custody of our fictional children.”
So, what changed after that first great decade? Was it her, or was it you? Was it a specific thing, or was it just that you started taking things for granted? Brutal honesty may be the only solution here.
The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable.....
After spending over 4,000 days in divorce court I would point out that from what I see, about half the people who get divorced go on to worse lives and about a half even or better lives. Most people should save what they have. All the advice from above, while well-meaning, was simplistic. If you have kids, it makes a difference. If you're going to pay alimony, it makes a difference. If you work for HER family's business it makes a difference. Lastly I would point out that if you are the problem, the problem goes with you. Without knowing more I would suggest seeing if your marriage could be saved and I would also remember that being part of a couple gets better as you get older, assuming you both want that. On a final note, Covid has changed things. In 39 years of family law I have never seen relationships get killed by something as fast as Covid. Business is the best its ever been.....by miles. 2 years ago I'd see 10-12 prospects to get 2-3 clients. Now I see 3 or 4. Covid made people think poorly of the future and those who do act rashly in the present. Good luck.
It was some criminal defense lawyers saw the wife and told me, "You need to get a divorce right now." Two stints of marriage counseling only had made it worse. But I still feel that I had to have tried that, because I had to be able to face myself in the mirror for the rest of my life.
The fact that you are asking the question is because you believe you know “it is time to get a divorce”...
The answer to your second question “why the hell I'm married to this woman.” you probably can’t remember that at some point you “were in love” and was the best thing to do at the time...
A lot of people have unrealistic expectations about life in general and marriage in particular, and that causes resentment towards the person that they “love”, because “he/she is not living to those unrealistic expectations...”
You will know “for sure, it is time to get a divorce” when you truly believe it is the best for her and your children, not you...
Sometimes, the hardest thing you'll ever do, ending the relationship, will end up being the best thing you've ever done for her and your children and hopefully for yourself...
“Divorce is always good news.
I know that sounds weird, but it's true because no good marriage has ever ended in divorce.
That would be sad.
If two people were married and ... they just had a great thing and then they got divorced, that would be really sad.
But that has happened zero times.”
~ Louis Székely
~ White Privileged stand-up comedian
~ Born Sep 12, 1967 Washington, D.C., U.S.
I just noticed you have The Incredible Hulk as you “banner”, maybe you need to work on your Anger Management problem first...
If you decide to get a divorce, or maybe she decided to get a divorce, please do it as friendly as possible, because it is the best for the children.
As a matter of fact have a Happy Divorce Ceremony for your family to mark a new, better happier chapter in your children lives and their parents....
“In life Something go Very Wrong... Or go Very Right...”
When my 1st wife and I got divorced, I didn't realize it until after the fact, but I think the turning point was when we no longer had fights. Normal couples fight from time to time, and then make up. If you don't fight or argue, it's probably because you don't care about the relationship anymore. At least that's been my experience.
^^^ for you it was the wife that pulled away once she
Found out about your rampid AAMP use. Serious question SJG, how long were you married, and were children ever attempted by you early on in your coupling?
I'd disagree that just seriously considering divorce is a sure sign you need to get one. A trial separation is an option to seriously consider. I don't think a trial session with two or three marriage counselors would be a huge expense.
I somewhat agree with dogchain. If your first choice is staying married but doing side P4P, there's not necessarily anything bad about that. If you've let her know you feel sexually deprived, she should be OK with you remedying that, if she loves you in a healthy way.
A friend went to marriage counseling, and what the counselor said has stuck with me: “think back to the best it’s ever been, and ask yourself if it’s worth putting in hard work and compromise over many months to get there. If the answer is yes, let’s start the counseling. If not, save yourself the trouble and get divorced now.” I thought that was pretty good, in any case you should start with at least one trip to the marriage counselor. Good luck!
My ex was never going to let us have any chance of being happy. She was just too survival oriented.
I had purposely avoided living with her before we were married. But once we were, and cohabitating she made everyday into a nightmare. In that era I found that the best place to be was at work, and always, like about 80 hours per week. The only time there could be any civility from her was on a car keys and wallet date, but never at home.
Finally as it seemed like a downward spiral, I insisted on marriage counseling.
This did not work at all. And there would eventually be a second marriage councilor too.
She made every session into this big psychotic rage dump, so it was very difficult and dangerous to drive home with her in the car. And she would be raging for days afterwards, with each session.
She had GF's, two of them in particular. They would call at all hours and many times per day. They were always stimulating the lizard brain. If there were any chance that the marriage could be made to work, these two were sabotaging it. I would cringe every time the telephone would ring. And then of course later it was the cell phone. And also as things got worse, I didn't feel any compunction about dumping some of it back onto these two.
For it to go the way she wanted, it would have had to have been an entirely outer directed married life, always seeking the approval of outside people. And of course I would have never stood for one second of this. It had to be a partnership. And at various times I tried to introduce ways that it could become a partnership, she and I working to build a future together, and taking the risks and the rewards together. But she would never have this.
Of course really I should have never married her. I should have dumped her, and dumped her very early on. But I didn't and in an extremely competitive and high stress career situation she had seemed like she was a support and a partner. But that was only before we were married. She knew that she had to keep me going out with her. Once we were married she knew that she had a legal weapon. So she was completely different.
Now the marriage counselors, of course they want every thing laid out on the table and discussed openly. This is the only way that they can be effective.
But my then wife would not stand for this. Everything was done by psychotic rage and emotional terrorism.
So yes, eventually I found more and more ways to avoid engaging with her. I think this is what MisterOrange meant by saying that they did not fight anymore.
I needed to have been out of there years and years earlier. I told the first marriage counselor that I had been "railroaded".
I take it by that that you have also turned into a workaholic, finding that it is just not safe to be at home.
With my wife it never was safe to be at home. Just the fact that there were no pressing engagements made it dangerous. Best was to get up before her and get out of the home.
Before we were married it got so that I would pick her up on Saturday evening and we would go somewhere and then stay at my home overnight. Then we would usually go somewhere on Sunday, and then stay together again Sunday night. Then I would take her home Sunday morning. That worked, but worked because it was always the car keys and the wallet.
See she would accept car keys and wallet excursions because they involved conspicuous consumption. Restaurant and food concessions are very pricey. And then the around town mileage and all the expressways, the accelerating up through the gears, and then the braking to slow back down. All ends up having a high price tag. But it meant we were somebody, and she could brag about it to her GF's.
But just sitting home while I was reading, no she could not accept that. Since is was not about advancing consumer status, it had to be illegitimate.
She made our home, originally my home, unliveable.
And I explained this to both marriage councilors, but the ex responded to it with psychotic rage.
35 comments
But when you won't pick up your plate ?
Say something nice
Do something nice for her.
If you can't do that, hmmm
After talking, don’t make rash decisions. Think about it, and decide if you can both work things out. Then discuss what might work best for both of you.
If it’s a done deal, try a trial separation. After a bit on your own, you will know if things are best left separate.
You ask how to know when it’s time to divorce. Half the country ( or maybe less ) would answer “ never”. Half the country ( or maybe more ) would answer “ when you would be happier not being married “.
Which half are you ?
I focus on all of the positive attributes the other half brings, because no human is perfect. Then I look at my own imperfections and try not to criticize myself either, since being human goes both ways. Life is akways about compromise, so hopefully both of you are giving to the relationship in a concerted effort. If neither of you are willing to work at it, or only one person is willing to improve your situation, then maybe it’s time to divorce, but make sure each party has been given plenty of time to make those efforts. It’s normal to have a few bad years, and you said the first 10 were great! Give it some time. Remember, most adults go through about a decade of depression from the challenges in life, don’t let that be an excuse to destroy your foundation.
I’m tired as hell all the time, but would be exhausted if I had to go on by myself and start all over with someone new. Being that I hope you see good out if your situation in your marriage.
The first thing you must ask yourself is this: is my wife real or a figment of my imagination?
If the former, go see a marriage counselor. If the latter, just wait until somebody says they want to meet you and kick your ass because you insulted them. If that happens you can say “I’d meet up with you for a fight but I can’t because I’m divorcing my fictional wife and have custody of our fictional children.”
You’re welcome.
The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable.....
SJG
I will play along and comment on your discussion.
The fact that you are asking the question is because you believe you know “it is time to get a divorce”...
The answer to your second question “why the hell I'm married to this woman.” you probably can’t remember that at some point you “were in love” and was the best thing to do at the time...
A lot of people have unrealistic expectations about life in general and marriage in particular, and that causes resentment towards the person that they “love”, because “he/she is not living to those unrealistic expectations...”
You will know “for sure, it is time to get a divorce” when you truly believe it is the best for her and your children, not you...
Sometimes, the hardest thing you'll ever do, ending the relationship, will end up being the best thing you've ever done for her and your children and hopefully for yourself...
“Divorce is always good news.
I know that sounds weird, but it's true because no good marriage has ever ended in divorce.
That would be sad.
If two people were married and ... they just had a great thing and then they got divorced, that would be really sad.
But that has happened zero times.”
~ Louis Székely
~ White Privileged stand-up comedian
~ Born Sep 12, 1967 Washington, D.C., U.S.
I just noticed you have The Incredible Hulk as you “banner”, maybe you need to work on your Anger Management problem first...
If you decide to get a divorce, or maybe she decided to get a divorce, please do it as friendly as possible, because it is the best for the children.
As a matter of fact have a Happy Divorce Ceremony for your family to mark a new, better happier chapter in your children lives and their parents....
“In life Something go Very Wrong... Or go Very Right...”
SJG
ERIC CLAPTON & PETER FRAMPTON - "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" (HD)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ijcpo1…
Found out about your rampid AAMP use. Serious question SJG, how long were you married, and were children ever attempted by you early on in your coupling?
SJG
The obvious answers to the OP's question:
1. If you have to ask if it's time, you know it's time.
2. When you know you will be better off divorced than you are married.
Does she acknowledge there are problems and does she want to fix them? Has she changed? Have you?
I had purposely avoided living with her before we were married. But once we were, and cohabitating she made everyday into a nightmare. In that era I found that the best place to be was at work, and always, like about 80 hours per week. The only time there could be any civility from her was on a car keys and wallet date, but never at home.
Finally as it seemed like a downward spiral, I insisted on marriage counseling.
This did not work at all. And there would eventually be a second marriage councilor too.
She made every session into this big psychotic rage dump, so it was very difficult and dangerous to drive home with her in the car. And she would be raging for days afterwards, with each session.
She had GF's, two of them in particular. They would call at all hours and many times per day. They were always stimulating the lizard brain. If there were any chance that the marriage could be made to work, these two were sabotaging it. I would cringe every time the telephone would ring. And then of course later it was the cell phone. And also as things got worse, I didn't feel any compunction about dumping some of it back onto these two.
For it to go the way she wanted, it would have had to have been an entirely outer directed married life, always seeking the approval of outside people. And of course I would have never stood for one second of this. It had to be a partnership. And at various times I tried to introduce ways that it could become a partnership, she and I working to build a future together, and taking the risks and the rewards together. But she would never have this.
Of course really I should have never married her. I should have dumped her, and dumped her very early on. But I didn't and in an extremely competitive and high stress career situation she had seemed like she was a support and a partner. But that was only before we were married. She knew that she had to keep me going out with her. Once we were married she knew that she had a legal weapon. So she was completely different.
Now the marriage counselors, of course they want every thing laid out on the table and discussed openly. This is the only way that they can be effective.
But my then wife would not stand for this. Everything was done by psychotic rage and emotional terrorism.
So yes, eventually I found more and more ways to avoid engaging with her. I think this is what MisterOrange meant by saying that they did not fight anymore.
I needed to have been out of there years and years earlier. I told the first marriage counselor that I had been "railroaded".
The whole thing was a great big horror.
SJG
Cutting Crew
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_Cr…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf_X9NZ7…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dOwHzCH…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7VgstsV…
Edwyn Collins - A Girl Like You (Live)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr_ItR4C…
Savage Garden - To The Moon & Back (Extended Version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCm6gRHI…
With my wife it never was safe to be at home. Just the fact that there were no pressing engagements made it dangerous. Best was to get up before her and get out of the home.
Before we were married it got so that I would pick her up on Saturday evening and we would go somewhere and then stay at my home overnight. Then we would usually go somewhere on Sunday, and then stay together again Sunday night. Then I would take her home Sunday morning. That worked, but worked because it was always the car keys and the wallet.
See she would accept car keys and wallet excursions because they involved conspicuous consumption. Restaurant and food concessions are very pricey. And then the around town mileage and all the expressways, the accelerating up through the gears, and then the braking to slow back down. All ends up having a high price tag. But it meant we were somebody, and she could brag about it to her GF's.
But just sitting home while I was reading, no she could not accept that. Since is was not about advancing consumer status, it had to be illegitimate.
She made our home, originally my home, unliveable.
And I explained this to both marriage councilors, but the ex responded to it with psychotic rage.
SJG
Amy Winehouse & Paul Weller - I Heard It Through The Grapevine (Live at Jools Holland, 2006) [HD]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p9DpNrH…
Led Zeppelin: Live on TV BYEN/Danmarks Radio [Full Performance]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-WSbMW7…