How do you tell if she is leading you on?

Dude one thing you gotta understand is that they are there to get as much out of you with the least output. Unless there’s an agreement to do any sexual favours it’s a scam. They are there to sell you a fantasy not satisfy your urges(Unless that explicitly agreed upon). I’ve talked to many dancers who tell me they like to trick guys into thinking something else will happen but quickly switch up one they get the payment and there’s nothing you can do about it bud

What I do is tell the exactly what I want and looking for. No joking or being playful because they will try to blur the lines of “oh sorry I dont do that”. So be very clear and direct. If she a timewaster or ROB, she will not be interested because she knows you aren’t playing her game of maybe this or maybe that.

The reason why she suggested because she knows she can get more out of you in vip. Without an established motive she will play you like a fiddle

Why would she do anything for free? Promise anything if youre not making an offer? Its a transaction and youre wasting her time giving off cheap vibes.

If she ends up finessing you its because you came off bad to her.

A good rule of thumb is to never pay upfront and don't agree to pay more than the base fee without something specific being agreed on. Being vague is usually a bad sign, but sometimes a girl is being coy because she doesn't want to get busted and doesn't know if you're a cop, especially if she just met you. In my experience, dances can definitely get better over time with certain girls, up to and including extras. Some girls want to be more selective. If a girl tells you, "I only do this with you", it's probably a lie. But if a girl says "I don't do this with everyone", she may actually be telling the truth.

Yeah icey is a hoe on this site all his advice is very feminine and illogical don’t listen to that tranny

It always gets better, for her at least, you, not so much.

If you do a standard lapdance with her, and she claims you will get more in VIP, and then you do the VIP and nothing more happens- at that point its a flat out scam and you can just take your money back.

If youve never done a dance with the dancer before- and she just says things like that youll have a good time in VIP, that itll be fun etc, then thats too vague to mean anything. Since even a regular lapdance can be considered fun.

Any sort of airdance is a red flag. Some girls wont do a 100% air dance but will blend the air dances into the lapdances, to the point they are only sitting on your lap maybe 20-30% of the dance time, with the rest of the time posing or air dancing in front of you.

If she doesnt let you touch her pussy, that means extras will be limited. She might still be willing to offer a HJ or BJ, but, obviously DATY will be off the table, and she wont let you bang her long enough for her to cum.

If you werent touching her nipples in a painful way, but she still didnt want them touched or doesnt allow them to be touched at all- again means extras are limited- maybe she will do a HJ or bj at best.

If she avoids grinding on your thighs or crotch for too long- again a red flag

I'd like to know how "you can just take your money back"?

In my experience, it's more common that favs get worse rather than better over time. They take you for granted, and/or malignant overconfidence drives them to constantly try to get more for less with you. In this form of entertainment, unlike most things, short-term thinking is best. Enjoy it in the moment when both you and the stripper are happy with the bargain you've struck. Don't build up big hopes it's going to get better over time, or even stay good over time. Otherwise, you may end up being a bitter political discourse forum ranter.

It's simple.
(1) Don't pay until after service. If she insists on prepayment, get up and walk out. Of course you'll need to get your coat and car keys.
(2) Never surrender your car keys. Otherwise a dancer can claim you owe her money and you won't get your keys until you pay. The club ALWAYS takes the dancer's side. They don't need you, they need dancers.

Pussylicker if you gave the money to a manager you would have to probably explain the situation in some way to try to ask for a refund.

If its just you and her in VIP and you directly handed her the money, you can just take it back. Theres nothing wrong with taking back scammed funds. If she later wants to involve management you can tell your side of things and leave the club if they insist

Actually the club does need patrons. That’s like saying Walmart doesn’t need its customers. Very dumb logic. At the end of the day we are the ones spending money and they want OUR money. No money = No business

That’s the type of thinking that kills business fast

Show her the money so she knows you have it, but don’t give it to her until after. If she doesn’t hold up her end or it’s a straight lie and bait and switch, walk the fuck right out the VIP. “We had an agreement and you didn’t hold up your end”

This is easier if you’ve built up good will with the staff and bouncers and are a known entity. If you’re an unknown she may demand you pay, but just walk the fuck right out of the club anyway.

I go with my gut. I almost never get explicit about what's going to on in a room. I'll occasionally say something like 'for everything' when I'm in an area where extras aren't common like they are in my normal clubs.

There's not a lot of specific things that on their own really are strong indicators. One of the strongest ones I've seen is the variable intimacy rate dance. That's where she steps up the mileage in the last part of the song to entice you to keep going, then turns it back down as soon as the next song starts. That's as close as it gets to clear indicator.

Another one is selling. I don't tend to have good luck with girls who sell me dances. The good ones simply offer, they don't tell me how much fun I'll have. I also have bad luck with girls who order stupid expensive drinks. Things like champagne splits, not just the trendy tequila or whatever. But those really aren't clear cut.

I disagree strongly that things don't get better over time though. I find it to be a bit of a bell curve, where things improve after a brief getting to know you period, then again there is significant improvement after seeing each other a few times. Then yes, the shine wears off eventually. Sometimes they'll get complacent and entitled, other times I'll just get bored. Sometimes it just takes a little break to renew the mutual appreciation, but often times it just degrades and ends. The timeline varies, but the pattern itself is pretty predictable.

If you're not willing to cut your losses and walk away, find a new hobby. I never prepay. Never. If I am getting dances, refuse the upsell and the dances suck, I let her keep the money and just walk away. If she starts causing a scene, I can always cause a worse scene.

Everyone in this thread has given solid advice. At the end of the day trust your gut and have a plan B and Plan C lined up. If things aren't working in your favor be prepared to cut your losses quickly and in a firm manner, than pivot to Plan B.

I think it helps to be a regular with someone you’ve connected with since repeat business is good. Lots of dancers just hang out forever with their regulars.

If she is talking, she is lying !!! I only trust the ones that negotiate with their mouth full of little ET !!!

A dancer shouldn't deal with customers who refuse to pay for dances up front. Its too easy for him to rob her. Also haggling about costs is a huge red flag for her. Its why she doesnt feel bad finessing these types

I know I’m spoiled by the customs and culture of my local clubs, but I can’t think of a single time when a dancer failed to deliver in VIP, even when the details were not explicitly defined and agreed to.

A stripper who danced at Miss Kittys in the East Saint Louis area told me the manager there got really shitty with her because she didn't want to do extras. Ideally, all non-ROB strippers, whatever their boundaries, should be able to work. The problem there is, when extras are wanted, either the customer has to risk wasting three figure sums, or either the stripper or the customer has to risk arrest, clarifying what is wanted/offered. So that perhaps is a reason for a club to seek to only have extras dancers working there. But very very fucked up if managers try to pressure dancers to do extras, when they are hesitant.

How do you tell if she is leading you on??? Easy. She is.

I dont think haggling is a red flag as far as not paying. A scammer, whether on the dancer or customer side wont haggle because they’re intending to scam.

Also its not so easy to rob over dances. Dancer or customer can get management involved in a ROB situation. Whats more complicated is if the customer doesnt pay the extra for extras received or dancer takes payment and doesnt deliver the extras.

Also @ilbbaicnl not messed up for managers to pressure dancers to do extras if the club is meant to be an extras club.

Extras are a legal gray area, so a club cant openly state that dancers have to provide extras. A dancer who doesnt want to provide any extras shouldnt be working an extras club. Or should refuse private dances/be specific that they are strict lapdances or whatever she offers.

The customer isnt risking arrest being specific with what they want. How likely is it that a dancer is an undercover cop vs. a customer is an undercover cop? Theres probably customers everyday all the time with specific sexual requests.. its the dancer who bears most of the risk in responding to or discussing specific acts and prices

In vegas Managers at chicas bonitas get a cut of extras.

A manager was fired at las toxicas for arranging extras for customers then refusing to pay the girls. Theres a pending lawsuit

How do you tell if she's leading you on?

She's talking.