discussion comment
6 years ago
My buddy and I got the "are you guys gay?" once, when we turned down a stripper! We both stopped for a moment, then started laughing at the same time. Stripper looked annoyed and walked away. I'm not always in the right mood, but when I am, handling this type of thing by laughing or with humor seems to work nicely.
Paul, what I do not *ever* do is meekly go along with what I think of as the stripper interrogation -- in this case, you got the interrogation on "is it because I'm black", but even just turning a stripper down can lead to an interrogation. She's got one of two goals here: 1. make you sooo uncomfortable, and catch you in the inevitable lie (since you're bending over backwards not to hurt her feelings) so that you just give in and get the dance, or 2. humiliate you and enjoy your discomfort to make herself feel better.
So, once the stripper asks me "why?", I do not answer that question, and I do not let her ask me ANY more questions. Do not meekly follow along on the interrogation. If I'm not in the mood, I simply repeat, "no thanks, thank you anyway". If I'm in a playful mood -- and I often am -- I get a big smile on my face and reverse the interrogation (the game is, answer all her questions with other questions and with humor, very often she'll lighten up and get out of interrogation mode, or she'll be annoyed and walk away):
Stripper: "Don't you like black girls?"
Me: "Why would you say that? What girl do you think I might like?"
Stripper: "You probably like that girl there"
Me: "What??? So you think I like girls who wear garters? What in the world makes you think I'd like her?"
...
Anyway, you get the idea: I do not answer her questions, period. I ask my own questions and take the conversation in some goofy direction. Like I said, I have to be in the mood, but it can be an ice-breaker and I've made good stripper drinking-buddies out of it (I love drinking with the black strippers. Don't know why.) Otherwise, I just repeat no thanks, make it stronger by telling her I'm not doing a dance with her, etc. No WAY am I meekly answering her baiting questions -- she's done this with lots of customers and knows just how to wind you up
discussion comment
6 years ago
^^^ Exactly! Same manipulation tactic as "don't you like me?", but with the race card. And also agree, it's not common, exactly, but not unusual either
discussion comment
6 years ago
This is pretty common and I' m surprised this is the first time you've heard of it. The old "you aren't getting a dance from me because I'm black" as a way to manipulate and guilt people into doing dances. It works because many guys do, in fact, get a dance to prove they're not racist. When the girls are rewarded for a particular behavior, they keep doing it.
-->"So she was accusing me of being a racist"
She was not accusing you of being racist. She was manipulating you, hoping you didn't recognize the manipulation (which you don't) and that you'd do a prove-I'm-not-racist dance with her (which, to your credit, you also didn't)
discussion comment
6 years ago
Short answer: to me, I don't see what problem this kind of thing would solve; in fact, in theory it could degrade the experience for some types of PLs.
As someone who leverages the fact that he's a known regular, so a stripper will sit with him for hours based on her perceived risk of losing both me and not getting any dances from anyone else, I'm not sure a club like this would give me the experience I'm looking for. In addition, even when I'm not with a CF and am on the hunt for a girl, I'm guessing that there will be some norms developed around "if you call me through the app, at minimum I expect a tip", whereas I'd prefer to not be obligated to tip during the initial interview of a new girl.
On the other hand, something like this might work perfectly for someone like chess, for whom attractive dancers are mostly fungible and whose preferred experience is getting his hands on a number of them per night.
So -- and this is just a guess -- such a club might attract the variety guys who just dance with anyone hot, but non-whale regular types might not get the experience they want, and even variety guys for whom the strippers aren't fungible. It's in my best interest that the stripper not know 4 other guys have hit the button for her; granted, even in that case, a stripper might choose to stay with a good regular anyway
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"Vantablack no offense but I don't understand where this sentiment is coming from. Your ATF and you hang out regularly, for free, as friends"
That's pretty awesome. A lot of guys here don't like spending time with strippers when there's no sex involved, but I personally think strippers are always fun to hang out with, regardless.
-->" Falling in love with her and her not wanting to fall in love with you is no different of a situation than it would be if you fell in love with any other girl and she didn't reciprocate your feelings."
I'm not so sure. Vanta, you still pay her at the club, don't you? So this is a matter of, still a stripper/customer relationship, but one where she enjoys his company enough that she'll allow strictly-friendzoned experience out of the club. If that's the case, it remains a more dangerous situation than simply being friendzoned by a civilian
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"That said, I don’t see why you are asserting that Krispy Kreme is absolutely implausible"
4got, it's not impossible, of course, but so improbable that your confusion here is what correctly convinced me you didn't have a lot of experience OTCing with strippers.
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"April9424, no disrespect, but I don’t see why a stripper wanting to meet at Krispy Kreme is implausible. In fact, I’d find it less plausible if SuperPony had said she wanted to meet at a Michelin-starred restaurant."
4got, no disrespect, but this is only because you haven't had a lot of experience with OTCs, otherwise you'd understand; if you're doing SJG-style theorizing, then I suppose you might rationalize yourself into thinking Krispy Kreme is totally realistic. In actuality, I can't remember if you've ever mentioned OTCing or not, but based on your statement above, with 100% confidence I know you haven't. Note that Michelin-starred restaurant isn't the most likely thing to come up either.
discussion comment
6 years ago
Good for the strippers!
discussion comment
6 years ago
I'll repeat that there's no reason to talk Vanta out of ceasing SCing. I think he's identified the best thing for him. To summarize, in an uncharitable but truthful way: He went on what is predictably an ultra-busy regular-filled night, expecting a stripper to treat him like a regular even though he's a rando ... and when he gets the predictable experience, uses victim terms ("those girls can go waste some other poor chump's time" etc). He's just not willing to to make any changes in how he does things in order to get what he wants; if this doesn't indicate that SCing isn't the right thing for him, I don't know what does. To get MY chosen experience, I pick the right shift, and the right day for that shift, and become a valued regular, and make it worth it to her to keep my appointments with her, and become friendly with the bouncer so I can get away with more touching... it's VERY much worth it to me, but I'd never get the experience I wanted if I didn't find the process that works -- and if I instead went in on SAturday night having texted some stripper I hadn't seen in months, I would know the likely outcome.
This is NOT a slam. Lots of guys feel the same way as Vanta -- and those guys are far better served and get a more satisfactory experience at AMPs, with escorts, with bodyrubs. And, while finding the right SB can be its own tortuous experience, once you find a great one, you can expect much higher predictability, reliability, etc. These are all far better choices than going to an SC on an ultra-busy night and expecting to be treated like a regular by a stripper for whom you're just a random customer.
discussion comment
6 years ago
Yep, there's just a mismatch; I'm thinking he's right, SCing isn't for him. You don't get to pick both "here's my ideal experience" and "I'm going to go about achieving that experience however I want". You can go about things how you want, and be happy with whatever you experience, or you can compromise on the how to get the experience you want. Vanta, I do sympathize with "why couldn't she have texted me that she has regulars coming", but again, strippers owe very little to guys who aren't their regulars, and as a complete rando who she's not making any money off anyway, keeping you as a backup plan is something to be expected. You're not willing to compromise on the "how", and you're not happy with what you're experiencing as a result. Just a huge mis-match, you're probably showing good insight and self-awareness but moving on to something else.
discussion comment
6 years ago
Perhaps some of the concepts you have -- like an "end game" for PLs -- also indicates that SCing isn't for you. Or that you need to adjust your thinking before you'll start to enjoy it more
discussion comment
6 years ago
Could be this just isn't for you. People are giving you counterpoints because, through experience, we all know it's possible to have a bad night, and we all know that especially on a holiday (Halloween counts as a holiday, in stripper world), it's especially tough. Or, put another way, it's insane to go to the club during what is normally a seller's market sausagefest, and then complain that it's a seller's market sausagefest. Normally, I'd rant about your stripper not honoring your appointment -- my preferred SC experience is highly appointment-based, so I consider the appointment to be sacrosanct -- but by your own admission, you haven't been to the club in months (in other words, you're not her regular) and tried to make an appointment on one of the busier nights when you're guaranteed her actual good regulars will also want appointments. All just feels self-defeating to me.
But, then again, not everyone loves strip clubs, and maybe this legit just isn't for you, and/or you're just having so much trouble understanding the norms that you're not able to engineer a good time for yourself. SA is fun, too; maybe worth a shot
discussion comment
6 years ago
I have no interest in doing anything with a 4/5. None at all, not talking , not getting dances. So in your case, I'd go with the 9/10, but I'd work the system so I didn't have to stay with the status quo.
All that said, are you sure those are your only two options? There's no $10-$20 contact clubs in the area, where sometimes 7s and 8s show up (even if there's only one or two on a shift)? How do you know? All you need to find is one 7, make her your CF, set up appointments with her whenever you want to see her, and now you can have a mind-blowing time with a hot chick whenever you go to your $10-$20 club. I'm skeptical you can't find a way to pull that off.
If the $30 low contact with 9s/10s is really your only option, then I'd look at those strip club trips as primarily a vehicle to enjoy recruiting a hottie for OTC, where the economics are much better.
discussion comment
6 years ago
Respectful but direct. Or, follow the code: 1. Don't be an asshole, 2. Don't be a little bitch
Similar to Muddy's first response, if she's just sat down to talk, pretty quickly I'll tell her, "thank you for coming by to chat, but I'm not planning on doing any dances with you, nice meeting you." If I can get her before that, I do... even before she sits, if she asks if I want company, I say "no thank you"; if she asks if she can sit down, I say "no thank you".
-->"Just last week I walked into a club and as I was ordering a beer, a dancer latched onto me, followed me to where I was sitting and struck up a convo"
With all due respect, she did that because she correctly surmised you were too spineless to dismiss her, and very often the scared guys will either tip her to go away, or buy a dance from her just to get her to go away. She's a smart stripper who knows when she can manipulate a customer who inappropriately feels dismissing her is "rude"
-->"Meanwhile other women took the stage and I wasn't free to walk up and tip them"
You were 100% to walk up and tip them. "Thanks for talking to me, I'm going to go tip at the stage and meet some of the other girls".
Not trying to roast you -- just trying to drive home the point that all this is in your head. YOu will enjoy your strip club trips 1000% more once you learn to pursue your own agenda rather than get passively manipulated by a stripper. It's not the stripper's fault -- she's correctly profiled you as a customer and is doing what she can to make some cash
discussion comment
6 years ago
--->"or an older guy in his 50s I would still stand by the advice to show a variety in your photos."
Yeah, the tongue out or puppy filter definitely wouldn't work for an older guy. I'm actually not convinced it wouldn't work against a younger guy, either -- this isn't a dating site, the girls are primarily looking for signs that the man is mature, stable, "generous", and able to afford what he claims. Puppy filter or tongue out might play on a real dating site, but it sends exactly the opposite message from what women are looking for on SA, is my guess, even if the guy can "pull it off" elsewhere. I think all but the newest least-experienced girls will move on immediately when they see a man sticking his tongue out.
I feel the same way about "variety of pics". Maybe on a real dating site. On SA, you might be thinking too much like a guy. For guys, the most important part of a female profile is the pics. For women, everything I read on the sub is that pics absolutely are not -- I mean, they don't want you to look horrible, but one face pic and one body pic is all that's needed to show that, anything else is gravy.
Anyway, just my theory based on what I've read on the sub. Could be wrong, of course, but I think experienced SBs might not be looking for typical dating-site indicators
discussion comment
6 years ago
thanks lurkingdog!
discussion comment
6 years ago
Snickers used to be my favorite, but I'm on team Baby Ruth now. Snickers is still a close 2nd
discussion comment
6 years ago
Really good stuff Paul. Some things to consider:
-->"as the girl I picked was a particular brand of hot a lot of higher offers were from other metro areas of the country for her to fly there for a few days"
Based on conversation on the sub, the vast majority of these out-of-town offers are scammers. As an SD, you likely do not need to factor these fellows into your calculations
-->"Past that to stand out I would add some more millennial style photos, do one sticking your tongue out, and do a photo with the snapchat puppy filter. Things like that would make you stand out massively over the crowd."
Stand out, but in a bad way, in that you've made it easy for her to identify that you're a tool. Standing out isn't a virtue in itself. I'd be careful here about going from descriptive "here's what guys who contact me do" to prescriptive "here's good advice on how to hook a good SB"
discussion comment
6 years ago
I'm not sure I buy into the concept of "endgame"; it's too goal-focused, when in fact I enjoy every step of the journey and my real goal is to have fun whatever we're doing. SCing is a luxury sport for me, if I'm having fun then I'm doing it right, no endgame needed. That doesn't mean there isn't a typical progression for me, which is along the lines of:
- Get YMMV best-customer treatment ITC
- Move to OTC
- Expand her sexual limits as we get to know each other better
- Move to a more arrangement-like OTC relationship (I didn't use the term "arrangement-like" until my SA experiences showed me that that's where I go with my ATFs)
- FWB
That said, it's not true that FWB is my "endgame". I've only accomplished it a few times, and isn't remotely my "goal", but just something that I enjoy when it accidentally jumps into my lap. My goal is to have crazy fun regardless of where we are in that progression, and as long as that's happening, it's fine if we don't take the next step (although a stripper who won't go OTC eventually gets dropped or second-string'ed)
discussion comment
6 years ago
PS By "ride in on my might steed", I mean "send her dick pics as soon as she gives me her number"
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"@Subraman - With all of the traffic some of these girls get what is your strategy on conversation?"
It's not a strategy exactly, but I seem to have hit my stride with:
1. Favorite, but do not contact, new girls. They're flooded with messages they can't keep up with. Plus, it's good for her to get a dose of the scammers, pic requesters, johns, and incredibly rude guys. They put the fair maiden in distress (and disgust), which prepares her for when I ride in on my mighty steed
2. In a week or two, contact her with a short polite message that references some part of her profile in a clever way, and that does not request her private pics, or make any reference to sex. I could be imagining it, but I feel like this noticeably increases the chance of a return message, even from a hot in-demand chick.
3. Quickly move to establish a little rapport, get her private pics, and get off the site to texting to discuss meeting (and, if she wants, allowance & intimacy details)
discussion comment
6 years ago
Damn, you ARE a hot chick, PaulDrake! I can't message you w/ my fake unpaid SA account, but sent you the nick in messages here
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"Damn that was you, I withdraw my offer."
Good, more PaulDrake booty for me. I hereby add 10% to my offer of half of juice's weekly salary plus 3 dick pics.
discussion comment
6 years ago
Great stuff man! I like your commitment to the experiment.
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"I heard the general going rate for OTC is about $2,500-$4,000 for the type of girls you want to OTC with, and that's assuming they are open to it"
My ATATF & her friends will OTC for $1k -- the price includes intriguing promises of more fun, but if you finally start maneuvering in that direction, eventually leads to: there were no promises made, and no extras offered. Her last extras were a HJ to someone who paid her an extra $1k. (if she's to be believed, but I certainly believe her -- $1k no-extra OTCs are de rigeur in Vegas).
As a general rule, I think PLs are best served by just giving in. Be careful about rigging the system to try to get extras or OTC at anything like an affordable price -- you'll likely just get played. Unless you're a city insider who knows how to work the system, enjoy it all for what it is, an all-glitz-no-substance fun time, because Vegas, Wooooo!!!!