Comments by phonehome

Well I like them big, DD's at least. To get that big for most women means implants and I on a lot of levels prefer implants, I like that round "fake" "Pam Anderson" look. I guess I am a product of the era I grew up in, Tiffany Towers, Wendy Whoppers and Lisa Lipps. ETC I don't like them nice and firm not the saggy "hanger" look, I also prefer older women, 30's, while there may be plenty of 18 years olds packing nice firm round DD-DDD's, and it seems like there are more these days compared to 20 years ago, but let gravity take it's toll for 20 years and then maybe popping out a kid or three and they are not firm and round any more, so I prefer a woman who was a C maybe D cup at 18 and at 38 has put in 600-800 CC's per to fill them back up and is now a DD maybe an F. Are there bad boob jobs yes? But there are way more women who have that saggy deflated look or were nothing more than an A-B cup to begin with.

I'm sure there are more than a few 15 year olds working in strip clubs in the US as well. A "womans" body and a fake ID is all that it takes. Fake ID's are easy enough to get. Compared to 20 years ago girls develop a lot earlier therse days. For every 18 year old that's like 5'1" and has C or D cups there is probably a 14 or 15 year old who is the same. As a customer or maybe even a club owner I am sure you wouldn't be able to tell the differnce.

I will agree with that, if you will agree that these days there are more than a few 14 year olds who have a body that can pass for 18-20 IE 5' - 5'2" C-D cupps give her a fake ID and the Illussion is complete. If she smokes, drinks and maybe does a few "other things" that 18-20 year olds do, I think most guys would be fooled.

Ironic but I was actually thinking about Tracy Lords in realtion to this, but I didn't know how many people would remember her because it's been well over 10 years since she did finnally turn 18. I don't remember the exact quote but Ron Jeremy said she fucked and "felt" just like any "fullgrown" woman he had ever experienced. I don't think too many guys will dipute the fact that girls develop quicker these days than they did 20 years ago, just go to a mall on a weekend in the summer some time if you are in doubt LOL. Maybe you could say that Tacy Lords was a one in a million fluke back then, but now I'm not even sure you could call it out of the ordinary.

Yoda I would agree that yes the 14 year old girls do dress sexier and try to look more adult these days but it isn't just clothes and attitude there is a little bady there too. We all have our own experiences. I graduated HS in 79, I didn't go to the biggest school in the world but when the girls were 14-15 they still looked like girls they didn't start changing into anyhting that would be confused with a woman until 17 or 18 a few maybe 10% at 16, but even one year 15 to 16 or 16 to 17 was enough to make a world of difference. So I know we are only talking about a difference of 2 or 3 years or a 25 span but it is enough to make the difference between the likelyhood of fake ID'd 15 year old passing for 18 - 20 being greater today than it was 20 years ago. Back then it was possible but very rare, today maybe it is not likely but also not out of the rare either.

Of course on the other hand there is then this little bothersome federal law that requires any business to report all cash transactions 10 grand and up. That law has been on the books for something like 10-15 years. The intent of the law was to curtail money laundering and try to limit the underground economy. I'm just wondering how did she avoid that, or did she? You can still do it but is like begging to have an IRS agent show up and ask you where you got the money. "ahh I found it" or "somebody gave it to me" would not good choices for answers :-)

If 2 -10 grand a night was "bragging" or not who is to know. I did find it interesting though,if you do the math, you are talking an easy million a year, she didn't seem to have the life of somebody who was making a million bucks a year. When the BF dumped her and she went home to de-tox you had the impression she didn't have a whole lot. I know that dancers can and some do spend it as fast as they make it, but it would be hard to spend 100 thousand dollars a month, every month, that is a lot of money.

Kit: Well I did watch this, and her days at CH2 where she said she was making the 2-10K a night she was just a house dancer, not a feature, those days were BEFORE she got into porn. That wasn't until after her BF in vegas left her and she went to her fathers place in Northren California to detox. It was after this that she went to Southern California and eventually got in to porn. I don't know where you worked that you made the 1500 a night, but back in those days, a lot of girls in vegas made that kind of cash. The point I was making was that although she was making a lot of money, when the time came that the BF dumped her and she went off to de-tox, she didn't seem to have any or not very much anyway.

Shot disc, I know it was a while ago, do you remember anything about the girl from JC? I got a few unsolicted BJ's there too. I think here name was Tanya, older blonde, fake tits about DD's I used to go there back in the day, back when they used to get some pretty decent features. The place went down hill pretty seriously starting about 3 or 4 years ago, to the point that when they did have a feature it was somebody you never heard of, and normally looked like a house giorl from a slightly higher end club. D's DD's nothing special. If it was somebody halfway famous, you normally found out they were just killing time, filling in a week in there schedule. IE "I was in Houston last week and I am going to be in Atalanta next week" So it was JC or nothing. I have not been there in well over a year

NEVER? It may not be often, but NEVER? Even once is all it takes for it to not be NEVER.

Yoda I think you have the majority/minority thing backwards. Maybe you just have some highly abnormal strippers in your area. I have seen a few other people make comments to the effect that they beleive you seem to put these girls on some kind of pedestal and I would tend to agree. That said, no I don't think they are dumb lazy sluts either, they are just not all the smart savy business women you seem to want us to believe they are. My experience is that strippers fall into three basic groups Group one are the girls that have never done anything else, they got lead into it by some older female friend or relative as soon as they had a fake ID and what would pass for a "womans body" In no time these girls are making 100's and sometime better than a 1000 of dollars a week. these girls have never had money beyond some small amount they got for their parents or whoever, which they always spent pretty much as soon they got. The fact that they now make more has not changed that habit, they just find more to spend it on. Clothes, shoes, cars, vacations, sometimes boyfriends and sometimes yes drugs. Very quickly being at the club is there life, the other strippers are her friends. It's a big party that they get to go to every night and get paid to attend. Because they are 18 (or less) and they have plenty of older (mid to late 30's)stripper friends, they tend to believe that they can do this for what at the time seems like forever. They maybe tell themselves that they are going to start saving their money, they just never do. Next thing you now a lot of them are 40 years old, probably divorced a few times, several kids and can't find a club where they can make any money dancing anymore and they have nothing. Group two are the true college girls, some actually get do get there degrees, but most do not, some get caught up in the never ending party and never actually start, a lot more just quit, it just gets to hard to keep getting up in the mornig for class, at first they miss a class or two but before long thye just quit altogether. then there are some that look ahead and see that an entry level job in whatever they are going to school for is only going to pay a fraction to what they are making now, so they quit, so they can make all they can from stripping while they still can. They tell themselves that someday they will go back, but most never do. One way or another they basically end up the same as group one girls. Group three is the smallest they are they are typically older (late 20's to early 30's) they have had other jobs and normally have a good idea about the value of money. For whatever reason they end up stripping, these girls are mostly likeley to be the home buyers but it takes disipline to not blow all that newly found money and even some of these girls can't resist the temptation. I can site two examples, favs of mine from a way back, both single moms, one 37-38 the other 33-34 the older one her son was out of the house the younger her daughter was something like 14-15. Both had stripped for around 15 years the older had had a few other jobs over the years but always ended up coming back to it. The younger one never did anything else as far as I could tell. They were pretty good looking, the younger one had the big fake boobs and with the right makeup and hair could look a lot like Pam Anderson. Her "dream" was to be in Playboy, IMO she had the looks for it and she alway talked about how she was going to send in pics, just somehow never did. Both made good money, 200 dollars was a "bad night" they were not the "I just work on weekends" type either It is a conservative estimate to say that over 15 years each of these girls made well over a million dollars, but neither one of them really had anything to show for it, cars that were nothing to write home about, the older one rented, the younger one had a double wide that probably cost 50-60 grand tops, I don't know that she actually owned that free and clear. The last time I saw the older one she was starting to work as a waitress at her club because she wasn't making it as a stripper any more. Physically or money wise. I have no idea what they spent all there money on.

Yoda Well you have your experience and I and others have ours. I also do prefer the older goup three girls and OF THAT GROUP it may be true that the majority, but maybe not by much, 60-40 or so are the smart money savers, but you can't look at the small sub-category you or I prefer and and draw conclusions for the whole group based on that. When you include all three groups I think you would have to agree that the smart money savers are in the minority, 10% maybe. As far as the pedestal thing,that may have been a little harsh, but I have seen others comment to that effect and you do seem to always paint strippers in a very positive light and there is nothing wrong with that, for the smaller slice of the population you prefer it may be more true, but noticing in the population in total a negative and acknowledging it as being there is not bashing them it is just stateing the truth as you see it. ShotDisc: No I don't care what they spend there money on either, but as far as the "well at least they are not living of the government" thing, trouble is some are. How many I don't know, I won't go as far as to say a lot, but I believe it is a significant %, not just a few. They get paid in cash and as such can qualify for all kinds of goverment benefits, AFDC, WIC, other income based benefits, because they "don't have an income" Why? For the same reason most don't pay income taxes, because they know they do not have to. These girls are all to some degree hustlers, some more than others some a lot more than other, Uncle Sam is just another "regular" An Example, I like examples BTW is that Big Blonde that was at Jerry's Cabaret in Mobile a few years back we talked about a while ago. I talked to her a few times and she was a talker, she was on SSI disability, she said because she was BI-Polar. She said if she worked a "real" job she would loose her benefits.

Makayla It is nice that you pay your taxes, but you have to know you are in the extrememe minority in doing that. It is nice that you have expenses that you can offsett some of your income with but at the end of the dayyou will still have some income left, a general rule the IRS uses is if your expenses equal or exceed your income 3 out of 5 years then you "job" becomes a "hobby". There are deductions given for "hobbies" It is not rare for people that are in business that deal with a lot of cash to at under report the amount that they get. Your "average" housedancer gets nothing but cash, and does not get any income that is reportred on a W-2 or 1099, it is quite tempting to just not report any of it. This can lead to a problem for girls that do save there money. Interest income gets reported VIA 1099, then you have to file. a high percentage of interest/unearned income to earned income raises red flags, when the bank acct. in question has regular deposits in cash it triggers the "where did you get the money" question. The picture only gets worse from there. Some try to avoid this by the "I put the acct. in my boyfriends name" thing but this can cause it's owm set of problems. the least being that he will no have to pay additional taxes and can fall into the same unearned/earned income problem. I believe the majority of dancers that as a rule file there taxes are the house girls that have or had some other type of "W-2" wage paying job, so they have to file. The rest are mostly features, they get paid a lot of non-cash apearance fees at clubs (if they can't get paid in cash) Modeling fees, Hustler and Score ETC. is going to pay with check. "acting fees" if they are into videos. They also have the most to write off in the way of expenses, travel, costumes,ETC. these girls do also make some cash along the way, but they do report most or least some of it. There are not that many girls in the business, once they become known I guarantee thet there returns are looked at every year.

Excuse me I meant to say that there are NO deductions given for hobbies. My mistake

I agree with most of what has been said. 250K a year is the exception but it is quite possible. The girls that work at the clubs in Vegas make a 1000 a night sometimes more, sometimes a lot more. So if you work at it and treat it like a job it can be done. Making 100K a year is possible at a lot of clubs throughout the country. Even if the girl works at one of the small clubs and she only makes on average 200 dollars a night, if you do the math that is 40K a year if she works 4 nights a weeks, 50 weeks a year. Then there is th question "what would these girls be doing if they weren't dancing" a lot have no skills that would get them anything except an entry level un-skilled blue collar job. Some are dropouts or might have only GED, most probably are high school grads but might have not had the best grades so going on to any serious colledge is probably not in the picture. So the answer is most likely some kind of not much more than minimum retail sales job. For some perspective, if you have "real' job and you make 10 dollars (after taxes) an hour, a standard work year is 2000 hours so you make 20K a year. The point as I see it in this is that it is possible but you have to really work at it, no one I know in the real world makes 100K-250K a year working some no skill required part time job. Many dancers seems to have this warped veiw of reality, they think that they are supposed to be making 100K a year even though thy only work 2 days a week and are taking vacations every time they turn around. And yes I do notice how you go to a club and there will be all those girls sitting at the bar or where ever talking to their stripper girl friends, or their boyfriends who come in just to hang out with them. They act like getting up on the stage when it is there turn is this major inconvience in there lives, all the while there will be guys at least a few sitting out there that they are ignoring, but these are the first ones to bitch about how they didn't make any money and have this "you have to pay for my time" attitude

Yes they are making more money than they have ever seen in there lives, sort of goes along with my "what else would they be doing" point. As far as the "well there waiting for a regular to come in" thing, Ok, and when that regular doesn't come in, then what? These are the first girls that you will hear bitching about how they didn't make any money that night, while they let god knows how many hundred walk out the door. I think everyone has had a time or two when they have left a strip club with 3 or 4 hundred dollars in there pocket that thye planned on spending because the dancers you might have spent it on couldn't be bothered to come over and get it. I think the point of this thread was how much these girls can make not how much they choose to make. I just wonder how these girls that were satisfied with less like you talked about above feel when they are in there 30's can't make it as a dancer anymore and have nothing to show for it and are back to being a waitress, knowing that if they had busted there ass for the last ten to 15 years they would have an easy million in the bank to live off of for the rest of there lives. And yes if she provides good service I always tip waitresses well.

Ye s I agree other people do live beyond there means as well, especially when they are younger. But most of these people are working full time or as close as they can get to it at the best paying job they can get. They are not "on purpose" working less. So while everyone can probably spend less not everyone can earn more.

Taking two groups of people and saying one can work overtime or get a second job and the other can work closer to but still less than full time and simply saying that each can work more does not seem to me to be an "apples to apples" comparison. Not everybody can get a second job, some people can't even get one. As far as the overtime thing goes, not everyone can get it. Ther are a lot of 9-5 type places that at 5:01 they shut off the lights lock the doors and go home, you coudn't work overtime even if you wanted too. It is true that there are some companies that use overtime on regular basis, mostly to avoid hiring extra employees, normally to save on benefits, sometimes it is practically mandatory for the employees to work it. Ther are also companies that avoid paying overtime like if ti were the plague or something. this normally falls into two types, the first is the type that will routinely ask/tell people to come in early or stay late or come in on there day off and it is then the old "we will give you time off later" deal, the trouble is that you always end up having to take it when it is convient for them, "no you can't take friday afternoon off, we are going to be busy" ETC. Sometimes yu end up getting screwed on the deal and never get it but for the most part you do get to take it even though it may not be all that beneficial for you. The other type is when they tell you to come in early or stay late (off the clock of course) and that is just how it is, if you want your job you will do it or they will find somebody who will. Think Wal-Mart here they have been sued several times over the past years for this sort of thing. In there eyes if you are not willing to put in long hours "for free" like some kind of psuedo manager, then you are some kind of "non-team player" and they will do what they can to get you to quit (no un-employment) or trump up some reason to fire you.

Yep older every time for me as well. Too many of the younger girls seem like that they are there just to hang out and party with there girlfriends and there boyfriends when they come by. They also seem to think they are supposed to be showered in money just because they showed up. "wanna dance?" "gee you are such an asshole because you didn't IMMEDIATLEY say yes.

Yoda asked if you were still spending money on her while you had this "relationship" if you were then I seriously think that you got played by this woman. Most dancers will always try to claim that they are not married or don't have a boyfriend because they are afraid that if they said otherwise it would discourage guys. There are also the ones that will tell some guys (sometimes) that they are married, "but getting divorced" It's always a done deal, they are "just waiting for the paperwork to get finished in two or three months" and always part of it is that they really like you and want to be with you "after the divorce is final" I guess they figure that this will encourage the "knight in shining armor" in some of guys. These guys figure that if they can stay here in the right place at the right time that they will end up with the girl. After that 2 or 3 months has grown to 6 or 7 and the divorce still isn't final, when she can tell that maybe the guy is getting a little impatient, is when suddenley she has decided to "give him one last chance" "we are doing it for the kids" is a popular excuse. At this point she probably has someone else sucked into the front end of this scam. When she called you again after, IMO that was just an attempt to real you back in and see if she could get you to go for another few months and few thousand worth of "it's just a paperwork drill" scam.

As said go into this with your eyes wide open. It is probably a sales gimmick and money will always be "important" That said she might actually like you so who knows? If it starts to look like it is the latter, keep something else in the back of your mind, as was said before if she is in her 30's then the end of her days dancing is coming up fast. If she got into dancing to support her kids because she had no other marketable skills or at least ones that would make what she makes dancing, then she probably still does not, so what is she going to do then? Maybe just maybe she sees that day coming up fast and is looking for some guy (any guy) to take care of her, or to be a little more blunt be her next meal ticket. Now if it turns out you like her, she is pretty hot looking and maybe a bonus great in bed and likes to be there fairly often and her kids are not total monsters you won't mind being used, You don't say how long she has been dancing but even if has only been a few years a lot of dancers start veiwing men pretty quickly as walking dollars signs, she could see you as one, probably in the typical customer way but you can look like one in other ways too. There can be any number of things going on here

What I have heard more than a few times is that plenty of clubs "on purpose" hire more waitresses than they need because they really want them as potential dancers. It works a couple of ways, first it is the girls idea, they see very quickly that they can make far more and compared to being a waitress work less, so changing is there idea. secondly it is not the girls idea, it normally goes like this, there will be a night when there are not many dancers, (maybe on purpose) but of course plenty of waitresses, it is then the manager approaches one of the new ones and asks if they would dance 'just for that night" "just as a favor, to help them out" Some of the ones that go for it discover the money and discover that they can do it, maybe even like it. Either way they get a steady supply of new dancers who would not intially want to do it. The other end of the spectrum are the girls that did strip for a long time and don't have the looks for it anymore, it is not as many but I have seen that too.

The oldest? There was this woman that it depended on when you asked, normally 40 something, heard 47 once, she could pass for maybe 37 on a good day and still looked pretty good considering she was mostly likely pushing 50, especially if you compare how she looked to what a lot of 40 something year old women look like. Youngest? I don't really go for young and don't really ask there ages anyway but I am sure that I have seen more than a few that were less than 18 maybe a lot less, what with how there are so many 14 year olds walking around in "womens" bodies these days, anyone who has been to a mall in the last 10 years knows there are a lot more of these types than there were a generation ago. I keep thinking about it from a SC owners perspective, some pretty young thing comes in, she has an ID, real or fake, who knows, that says she is 21, is 5'1" or so has C to DD cups and looks every bit a much like a woman as any of the strippers that you have now that you know are a least 21, smokes, maybe talks about having a kid, how are you going to know that she just turned 15.

when that happens, then you have to wonder, if she were just in it for the money, the fact that your married or whatever shouldn't matter, when it apparentley does then you have to conclude that she is looking for something else, a husband probably, she is tired of stripping, most likely getting older and can't really do it much longer anyway but is still pretty hot looking by normal woman standards, she probably hasn't availed herself of any other options for making a living, it may be the only thing she has ever done, she does not want to start working at Wal-Mart and is just looking for some guy to take care of her. Maybe that is Ok with the guy involved or maybe it isn't every situation is different.

The club I used to go to that got features the most, it's now close used to get a lot of the famous big fake boobs girls whe I started going there, to name a few that were there more than once, Crystal Storm, Plenty Uptopp Colt 45. there were normally two types the established girls that when you talked to them while getting pics or dance you found out were just filling in weeks between major gigs, if they were not thee they would have nothing for the week, IE "I was in Houston or New Orleans last week and am going to be in Atlanta or Tampa week. Then there were the "new girls" who were on there first national tour after becoming features, I saw Chelsea Charms right after she got the string implants and was in her 1rst layouts in HBB and Score. Never saw her again afer she became "famous" Then they started getting more "porn stars" some "famous" ones but a lot that all things considered were not all that much different from your average housegirl at a higher end club, in fact it seemed like at least half the time she was someone you never heard of and claimed some dubiuos mag and movie or contest credits that could have easily been totally made up and for all anyone knew were housegirls from some out of town club, good looking normally blonde with fake DD's but that was about it, you could find girls like her being housegirls plenty of places.