discussion comment
20 years ago
Thanks for the post Makalya.
As for the champagne room this one kind of baffles me. The rates are typically $500/hr or thereabouts. Now I have it on reasonable authority that that is about the rate you would pay for an escort or prostitute working in brothel to have sex with you for an hour. So why should strippers be surprised when customers expect that? I mean there is no one in world I am going to pay $500/hr for just to bounce around on my lap and pretend she is interested in me. Are strippers surprised that customers are not expecting to be ripped off?
discussion comment
20 years ago
Oh just seeing the stripper outside the club as friends with no sexual expectations. Never thought of that one. Yeah I guess that could work and you still might want dances.
discussion comment
20 years ago
You know the more I think about this the worse an idea it seems: How do you know the strippers aren't just pretending to be your friends outside the club because they want to keep your business relation good? I mean you tell them that it won't make a difference if they say no but who is really going to buy that? Chance are too high that it will to take a chance if your business is really good (and I assume the most profilic posters here are also the most prolific spenders in the club).
I guess the true test would be once they quit dancing do they continue to see you OTC the club for free. Anyone have a positive or negative experience either way?
I think it's best if you see a stripper OTC to make it clear that the business relationship ends.
discussion comment
20 years ago
I don't like your analogy FONDL: In football it's more or less clear cut what the expected behaviour is. Everyone who starts football knows that tackling is allowed. Many of the new and naive customers to the club don't know to expect the amount of lying/misleading for the sake of money extraction that they run into. The strippers are preying on them to make money with their dishonesty. It would be fine if these customers knew to expect lying but many do not. It's that simple. And as for it being ok to lie about their personal lives: it is not. If they concerned about personal safety they can say they don't want to talk about it. The real reason they make up lies about their personal lives is to seem more attractive to their customers: fake common interests to "hook the fish". Again if they only did this to customers who knew to expect this it would be fine. But those are not the ones the strippers are preying on.
With almost no exceptions strippers are greedy, dishonest PLs with few morals. Don't talk to them just get dances.
discussion comment
20 years ago
I want to know what happens when they get put to the test naturally: When they stop dancing do they remain your friends once the monetary incentive is clearly gone? I've seen one post indicating that the "friendship" ended. That doesn't sound good. What about the rest of you? shadowcat says his ATF is gone now, so it sounds like he didn't have much long term luck. What about the rest of you?
In order to prevent all this why not put them to test? If they are your friends they will understand your concerns and shouldn't mind.
discussion comment
20 years ago
No, no... Regular of a club.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Yeah me, if they are the ones teasing about it.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Sorry, it appears that I was rather unclear about the intent of my question. I am not interested in what qualities of a club or dancer make you decided to be her/its regular versus some competitor. I want to know why some customers decide to regularly visit strips clubs, while others only drop in once in a while. What are the reasons the regulars aren't just getting hot/nice girlfriends OTC the club and getting sexed up that way?
discussion comment
20 years ago
No that would be dumb.
discussion comment
20 years ago
I guess it would be better for our strippers to answer this question. My guess (as a customer) is that they give more pretend affection to the customers who are spending more to keep their business. However, they will develop more and more contempt hidden contempt the more the customers spends. I mean I would think that way if I was a stripper too: what's wrong with this guy that he thinks he has to spend money for friendship, sex anyway?
discussion comment
20 years ago
Yeah, I've noticed that some of the posters here seem to find it incredulous to think that some customers think that strippers actually like them. But maybe for the younger guys it's not such a quantum leap to think that an attractive girl around their own age actually likes them. Oh but he happened to meet them when they were at work: so what?
discussion comment
20 years ago
A stripper would never tell you such a thing in the first place unless you asked her to meet OTC. I would only ask that if she gave a clear indication that she wanted to meet me OTC. If she then said no I would be PISSED OFF and not spend another dime on her.
discussion comment
20 years ago
A couple bucks for two hours? What friggin' club offers that? LOL!
discussion comment
20 years ago
Most 3 years old know what lying is. I guess strippers and the other posters here haven't figured it out yet, though. No wait, they know but don't care.
discussion comment
20 years ago
No I don't like them much. 1-2% might be exceptions. I don't know. I think a better philosophy than avoiding them altogether is to just get dances from them but not talk to them. I don't think they're really human, although some of them look pretty good.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Might be a point for when I'm out of town but locally I'm in enough that they I'm not LEO, and mileage is a cinch at the local clubs (a bit too high for my liking in some cases, in fact).
discussion comment
20 years ago
shadowcat: anyone should be able to find their appropriate level of mileage at Rick's. Beyond a certain level I would be worried about safety issues however and would just visit a Brothel in Nevada instead since the safety issues are better regulated. Plenty of girls will do topless stuff at Rick's for the standard $30. Like I say it runs everything from air up to ... You could very well be right about Rick's being overrated b/c the other local clubs are so lame. I'll take your word for that based on your more extensive experience.
TopGun: Thanks for your insights. I'll try being nice to strippers in the future. Oh wait, I already tried that and it just makes you "a mark". n/m
discussion comment
20 years ago
Yoda: Sorry when they get to the point of lying, scamming, stealing when you are nice to them and not looking for love/sex then they are clearly the ones in the wrong. I haven't got scammed by any strippers b/c my cycnical attitude has protected me from that. I see them trying it all the time though and they tell me gleefully about their regulars who they are hustling big bucks out of. Makes me sick.
It would be easy for someone not as even love with strippers as you are to see that, but I guess you are blinded to their moral defects.
Now let's suppose there are people in the clubs looking for "love" where they shouldn't be? What is the proper moral response in that case?
a) Try and milk the sucker for all he is worth by using various forms of deception including outright lying,
b) do nothing and watch as he goes down into a downward spiral, or
c) tell him he is going down the wrong path and set him on the right course.
Now I know that the posters (and especially the strippers) here are going to have trouble with this question, but I think to anyone who does not regard strippers as "moral infalliable beings" the answer would be obvious.
If I have developed a bad attitude toward strippers it's not what I came in with. It's because I have observed that strippers do not seem to understand basic morals: lying is wrong; stealing is wrong; scamming is wrong. Doesn't matter if the victim is easy to sucker and you will make alot of money by doing it. Wrong is still wrong. It's that simple. Not sure why you guys (and girls) don't get it.
discussion comment
20 years ago
You are right on the money, TopGun.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Yes, I agree that customers are also weak in the superego department, and that is part of the reason that strippers have to put up with so much shit from them. I would guess that x% of strippers and customers only operate on the boundary of morality in sexual department and are normal in other respects. x is much less than 50 however.
discussion comment
20 years ago
johnny: my guess is that if you go for a beer with her she is going to ask you to borrow money.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Yoda: what's the answer to the question I posed? a, b, or c?
discussion comment
20 years ago
Mouse: Interesting that was the next topic I was going to post here: If strip clubs completely disappeared from the face of the earth would the world be any worse off? Certainly there is nothing economically productive about them: it's just transferring money from one group of people to another (customers to strippers) and then from the strippers to whatever it is that they spend there money on. So from an economic stand point no loss. Maybe there would be a slight lose to society from an entertainment prespective, but I think people would just find other things to do for entertainment so it won't be worse of in that respect. It would probably be better for the strippers overall if they were forced to do more normal work for money or spend their time in school. And for the customers, it's hard to say? What would they spend their money on if there weren't strip clubs? I can't say I know enough customers to say.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Yoda: Um, Ford produce cars and McDonalds produces big macs, so those aren't exactly good counter examples. Kmart is a better counter example, but certainly there would be a big convenience factor lost if department stores didn't exsist for consumers so it's clear that those industries are contributing something. If strip clubs didn't exsist the loss to society would be some entertainment value.
Purely economically I think alot of the money that the girls make ultimately ends up in supporting various addictions so that's kind of like transferring it (indirectly) from the customers to drug and alcohol dealers and casinos and keeping those (similarly unproductive) industries going. In the meantime there is a loss of productive labour/education for the girls (and also the "addiction" industries they are probably spending alot of their money on) so it all looks like an economic loss to me for strip clubs to exist at all.
Maybe strip clubs are meant to be a check on a potentially bigger problem: prostitution. I think prostitution should be legalized myself. It would be interesting to see what would happen to strip clubs in the face of legalized prostitution. What's the situation like in the parts of Europe where prostituion is legal?
discussion comment
20 years ago
I only hate the ones who lie, scam or steal. Same in the clothed business world. I like the ones (1-2%) who are genuinely nice. But the genuinely smart and nice ones are probably going to avoid that sleaze in the first place (or get away from it ASAP) so I guess we shouldn't be too surprised that they are not common in strip clubs (see my "fundamental problem" thread). This all gets back to original post in the thread: since they are unlikely to be nice and smart that's a pretty good reason not to ask them for dates.