discussion comment
19 years ago
Didn't tiffany or someone say he started sexual relationships with strippers by starting with private dances? Seems like it might work better for developing "fuck buddy" as opposed to a girlfriend relationship, but it might a tactic worth experimenting with. I imagine that nearly all strippers who are willing to do sex for money have to much emotional baggage to be decent GF material anyway.
discussion comment
19 years ago
I don't know all the details of your situation but you might have caught FONDLities: Getting too hung up on one stripper, not admitting to yourself that you do desire a normal (FREE) relationship with her, being too scared to ask her to start the said relationship for fear of rejection, continuing to spend money on her while you remain uncertain hence decreasing your chance of getting the said relationship.
I think it's pretty normal to get bored of the strip club culture. As you say most strippers and the culture itself becomes less and less appealing the more involved you get. There are, however, a few girls who you will meet who are real gems. The key is take it OTC with them before you end up spending too much money on them, looking like a PL/RIL and ruining your chances of anything happening OTC. I think part of the key her is just to admit that if you meet a girl who real does appeal to you in the future that is ok that you met her in a strip club and hence to "ask her out" very early on before money becomes a factor. Many strippers and posters here will try and tell you that is wrong for some reason but don't listen to them.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Hello, old people? What on earth makes you think that you have to date/get all serious with 20 yo's to get something physical going with them? In fact of any age group that will be the one most willing to just have sex with you no strings attached. Oh wait, I guess you guys are going to try and tell me you won't want just sex with them. Alrighty, sure, we really believe you....
discussion comment
19 years ago
RL is right on the money here:
Strippers are indeed very contemptuous of customers who think spending money is the way to win their affection. They do not think that they are prostitutes or escorts or whores!
If your personality isn't appealing enough to get her to talk to you just based on just that, "tricking" her into talking to you by paying isn't going to help matters.
Spending money in a bid to get her attention or affection makes you look like a desperate pathetic loser: the opposite type of personality that women find attractive.
Some strippers are more comfortable with what they do and if you buy a few LDs from them, they won't automatically put you in the PL category (most will do it after the first LD you buy). With these if you keep getting LDs after what is deemed to be a reasonable amount of time (3 meetings) to determine that you like them 'as people' then you again fall into the PL category for not having the balls to reveal your true intentions.
Bottom line: If you like a stripper and want to date her it's best to spend no money on her at work (some tipping on stage is ok since strippers like kid themselves that they are really just "exotic dancers".) If you do spend money on dances you have probably fucked it up, but you might have been lucky and run into a dancer who is cool with her job, in that case still don't "visit" her more than three times before you ask her out.
discussion comment
19 years ago
FONDL should really answer this one, but unfortunately we are on his "do not read" list, so I'll give it a try:
I think the said customers are not very manly and honest about their true desires. They are indeed desperate for any kind of female interaction first and foremost. They do also desire sex from beautiful young women. Because of their pussy behavior however they never get it. They then try and make a virtue out of necessity saying they never wanted it in the first place.
discussion comment
19 years ago
You right on the money here.
Several SC employees tell me that many strippers are in it just as much for the control as they are for the money. This where Yoda's simplistic model profit maximization model breaks down, for instance.
Some strippers have even told me about judgements they have made about men in general based on their SC experiences. But it's not a fair comparison: Look at the way the best male players play the weakest females (or even the strong ones for that matter) and I think you will find there are as many female PLs in the world as male PLs. Maybe even more!
Playing hard to get works just as well for men as it does for women: if you really mean it.
If you look at strippers lives who are they, for the most part, to be calling other people PLs? Most are single mothers, poorly educated, not too bright (other than in manipulation which they learn from others), and probably addicted to something.
Finally, I also have come to believe that some strippers started out as overly nice and naive girls, just used and taking their revenge out on SC customers.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Maybe he got a life. Let's wish him the best.
discussion comment
19 years ago
casualguy: Excellent point.
This is particularly true of those people who are used to getting what they want. Remember that hot chick in school who could have any guy she wanted? And who did she end up going pining over... The only one who didn't want her.
Use this to your advantage in SC (and elsewhere) and beware of those women who will try to use it against you.
discussion comment
19 years ago
I am certainly going to remember my ATF even though I only talked with her twice. Many good insights from her.
She volunteered her contact information but I did not follow up since we live in opposite corners of the country.
discussion comment
19 years ago
RL: That would seem to be very logical, but didn't you tell us that strippers are mostly interested in dating jealous criminals, failed musician losers, and various other deadbeats? Do you think that many customers fall into these categories?
discussion comment
19 years ago
Sounds like good advice. Let's add that to our collective bag of tricks.
discussion comment
19 years ago
I think how she reacted to you initiating the kiss would be more telling than if she initiated it. In the latter case she is more in the lead, in control so it could very well be a ploy.
What's your take, RL?
discussion comment
19 years ago
Probably setting you up to borrow money.
But you never know, she could be into Hot Old Farts.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Maybe, maybe not. Kisses, on the lips, are pretty rare around here, at least. (Rarer than any type of extras, in fact). I am told the commanility depends where in the country you are from.
I would still trust how see reacted to one you initiated more than one that she did.
Anyway, that's an experiment I would like to try. How about we all go into the clubs for the next month or so and report back on how it works (customer doing the initiating, I mean)?
Oh and needless to say, there ought to be some indication that she likes you before you try this. Else it would be very rude and trashy. Just do it when you are uncertain as RL suggests.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Supply and demand:
Bad economy => increased supply (as desperate unemployed people become strippers)
Bad economy => decreased demand (as customers have less disposable income and hence decide to just jerk off at home)
discussion comment
19 years ago
I nominate this as post of the year!
discussion comment
19 years ago
And, you, AN, have a serious reading comprehension flaw. Here, I will highlight to help you out:
"***If*** anything I predict a drop in dance prices if the economy tanks ***(I am not certain that it will, though***"
Always looking to attack the strawman to prove that you are smartest aren't you?
discussion comment
19 years ago
I know you're all very eager to attack strawmen on this board, but can you at least read what mailman says before ascribing position to him which aren't his?
He never said strippers have a responsibility to find out if their customers are spending too much. He said it is ultimately the customer's responsibility. He said that ***if*** the strippers know about it and continue to take the money then they are pretty pathetic creatures. This is all quite obvious, except to strippers and their worshippers on this board, I guess.
I think the drug dealer analogy is good. Drugs are legal in some parts of the world.
The "If I don't do it someone else will" logic is pretty badly flawed. Can someone think for 10 seconds and post a counter example or will I have to? Jabberwocky? For bonus points find a counter example to "I have to do these bad things because I won't be able to pay my own bills if I don't".
Sheesh... I christen these stripper arguments and their way of thinking "Stripper Logic". Note that it, of course, is no logic at all.
I think an even better analogy than drug dealers would be a compulsive gambler. How would you feel about casino management who knew about compulsive gambling and instead of doing anything to educate such people instead schemed to make matters worse?
Like I say I am pretty sure the regulars dropping the big bucks and falling in love typically have some psychological problems: depression, social phobias, trouble dealing with maritial problems.
A couple of strippers I knew even confessed to knowingly allowing "mental challenged" customers to spend all their money on them.
No wonder strippers have such a bad rep and given their "Stripper Logic" aren't reknowed for being very bright!
discussion comment
19 years ago
AN: you're such an idiot and can never admit you are wrong even a case as totally obvious as this. You really need to work on the strawman thing and the sense of humor thing if you are ever going to get it.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Strippers definitely have the mindset of female players (for the most part, there are exceptions). Then to make matters worse they are pitted against some particularly weak men so you can imagine what will happen.
I still think the male player has the advantage over the female player, however. For some men, the naturals, it is completely obvious how to handle this type of women. Others will need to study a bit:
I recommend www.fastseduction.com for a good starting point to learn how to deal with female players. Could save you alot of money and misery in the long term.
Your friend,
David S.
discussion comment
19 years ago
The website I posted above is free. In particular you might want to search the newsgroup archives for posting by "Mystery" on how to deal with strippers in particular.
To learn more about the men who have made it their life's mission to figure out how to outplay "female players", you may want to pre-order the upcoming "The Game" by Neil Strauss.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060554738/qid=1125330843/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-4862349-8287000?v=glance&s=books
Shoot! When is this board going to support embedded hypertext?
Good luck and have fun,
David S.
discussion comment
19 years ago
I think in some sense stripping is becoming more acceptable. I think it is partly superficial though. It very
un-PC these days to criticize anyone for anything they do which is not illegal.
But if you scratch below the surface even the "doesn't affect me, why should I care people", and those who are close enough to strippers to know them well (eg boyfriends, family, non-stripper coworkers), still think there is something wrong with the job: Both the sexual aspects of it, the "what is your work contributing" aspect, the "what kind of environment are you putting yourself in" aspects, etc.
Below the surface I don't think most people's attitudes towards strippers is all that good. I don't think most strippers attitudes towards themselves are that good either (witness the kind of guys they date/support). The most prolific posters on this board are an exception, but I think part of what they are seeing is what they want to strippers to be (and thus validating themselves) not what strippers really are.
discussion comment
19 years ago
chitown: It's not money. It's conveying confidence, and other "leadership" qualities. Artists also seem to do well, too, although why women find this type so attractive has been studied much less.
discussion comment
19 years ago
AN: no.
discussion comment
19 years ago
AN: to see why I won't elaborate consider the following very rough analogy to our discussion:
me: 2+2=4
AN: What do you mean all jews should be exterminated in death camps? that's crazy! How can you support such a position? (five page triad on how Nazism is bad.)
me: I didn't say I supported nazism. I said 2+2=4.
AN: (five page rant on how saying 2+2=4 makes me support nazism)
me: You're an idiot and attacking a strawman.
AN: Would you care to elaborate, I've clearly explained how saying 2+2=4 makes you support Nazism?
me: no.
AN: Ok, I clearly am right. Looks you're scared to debate me.