tuscl

Are Strippers Female Players?

Monday, August 29, 2005 5:29 AM
I saw this article, and it reminded me of what strippers do to customers - THEY PLAY THEM for their money. In the article a guy reports his experience with a FEMALE PLAYER, playing him for entertainment and a free trip to NYC. I believe many strippers have the same MIND SET when dealing with strip-club customers. What do you think? The ups and downs of dating a female player By Jonathan Small Listen in as one man shares what it's like to go out with one of these irresistible but dangerous creatures: The female player. Tonight would be the night, my friend Johnny told himself. He'd dated the lovely Sarah off and on—flirting with her over $15 cocktails at swanky clubs, trying to get closer and being pushed away. He finally decided to go for it—to show her how he really felt and pull her into his orbit once and for all. Off they went to New York for the weekend and all was going well. They laughed and kissed over dinner at a hip Japanese restaurant... that is, until a guy named Brad happened to appear. Sarah had mentioned to her "friend," as she called Brad, that she might be in town for the weekend, and let slip the name of the place where she and Johnny would be dining. Since Brad knew the hottest parties in town, Sarah thought the three of them could team up to hit a few. Before Johnny could raise any objections, his romantic date was co-opted into a group outing—one where he was forced to watch Brad and Sarah bump and grind all night. The kicker? She ended up spending the rest of the weekend with Brad. And Johnny? He was devastated. He had no idea women acted that way. He'd been used... and it wasn't a pretty sensation. Players. Long a label associated exclusively with men (James Bond, Mr. Big, and Alfie, to name a few), this term has increasingly become all too fitting for a growing number of women as well. Like their male counterparts, female players are always stringing along numerous suitors and thriving on all the attention—not to mention the flower deliveries. What makes her tick? And can we guys stop ourselves from falling for her? As someone who's dated one or two of these ladies (and recoils at the memory), let me share what I can on the subject. First, the good news: Female player fact #1: There's a definite ego boost that comes from dating her. These women don't get all this attention from guys because they're wallflowers or plain Janes. They are dazzling conversationalists, well-dressed, and very capable flirts. Says Paul, 37, "I've dated a couple of women like this, and, I have to say, they present themselves in such a great way. It's like dating a character on Sex and the City. They're full of funny stories, and they always have beautiful hair, beautiful nails, great clothes. When you're out with one of them, you feel like a clever, Hugh Grant type out on the town." That's part of what keeps a guy coming back to these women—they feel as if they're part of a rarefied, fabulous world when they're with her. Oh, and there's one more specific way in which they dazzle a guy, as you'll see in my next point. Female player fact #2: She has incredible lingerie. All of the guys I interviewed who had dated a female player said the same thing (looking rather dreamy-eyed): Great lingerie. "This is not the kind of girl who's going to be caught dead in plain cotton undies," says Tony, 41. "The woman I dated? She toyed with my emotions, that's for sure. But I can't help but be nostalgic for her lingerie drawer. I'd never seen anything like it. Talk about a kid in a candy store. I guess she'd accumulated that wardrobe to keep her different suitors enticed." Now, the less-than-good news: Female player fact #3: These women are on a power trip. These women believe the pleasure of their company is a treasure men should work for. One player named Christie, 28, explains it this way: "I don't throw myself at guys; I see dates as a trade-off: The guy gets to be seen with a hot girl at a restaurant, and I get to eat sushi for free," she says. "I had a male friend take me to get a couples massage. He got to see me in a towel and I got pampered at a nice hotel. Sounds fair, don't you think?" Obviously, a guy's ego can take a real butt-whupping from this kind of treatment. I don't know about you, but feeling like a doggie chasing a premium biscuit isn't exactly a sensation I cherish in my personal life. Knowing that these women see themselves as "above you" is a real cold shower in my book. It goes without saying that guys love the thrill of the chase—and that's exactly what a female player gives them by keeping the relationship casual. "Guys don't like it when you're too eager and available, so I keep my schedule booked," explains Mary, a chic blonde who usually juggles a handful of suitors. "When you make a guy work for it, he really ramps up the romance—he's doing everything he can to impress you and be the last man standing. I'm really amazed by how hard a man will try to win me over: Orchids, dinner at the most in-demand restaurants, incredible love notes—sometimes even jewelry. It's almost embarrassing what a guy will do to get the girl." Embarrassing, yeah. A female player's way of remaining cool, coveted and non-committal can drive a guy crazy. The prophet Jay-Z once said, "Don't hate the player, hate the game," but that's a tall order. My best advice? If you find yourself drawn into the web of one of these women, set your pride aside—and bring your checkbook. Jonathan Small has been played like an Xbox by several women. A freelance writer based in Los Angeles, he's also co-author of the new book, The Best Places to Kiss in Southern California.

33 comments

  • FONDL
    19 years ago
    Mouse, I was probably using "competitive" in a slighlty different sense. To use your car-buying analogy, there are two different approaches that I've seen: in one case the buyer and seller work together to try to get a deal that satisfies them both and gets the customer to return; in the other case the buyer and seller are each trying to get the better of the other person, even if it involves deception, and it usually does. I think customer-stripper relationships often fall into one of these two types of relationships. There's nothing wrong with either as long as that's what you enjoy. Personally I prefer the cooperative and honest approach, whether you're talking strippers or car buying.
  • Mouse
    19 years ago
    FONDL, the approach I outlined above was intended to enhance one's negotiations within the strip club - that is, to get the most mileage for your money. I think davids espouses the same sort-of-thing (if I understand him correctly). This is much like negotiating for the best deal on car or a home - but in this situation getting the most for you entertainment dollar in a strip club, which takes a somewhat different negotiating style. I'm not advocating becoming competitive with the strippers; I wouldn't stand a chance!
  • FONDL
    19 years ago
    Mouse, I wasn't trying to imply any sort of value judgement, I was just pointing out that we don't all view competition the same. I think that many people enjoy winning most when everyone wins, but a lot of other people enjoy winning the most when someone else loses. In fact for some people I think it's the other guy losing that they enjoy the most. Some people are just more competitive than others. That's all I was trying to say. Personally I don't much enjoy competition unless it's on a very social and friendly basis where nobody much cares who actually wins. Other people probably find that boring.
  • Mouse
    19 years ago
    Fondl, I'm not certain I understand your comment, "And I think they say a lot about who you are." I don't want to react until I fully understand your intent with that comment. How many different types of "you are's" are there, and what is each?
  • davids
    19 years ago
    Mouse: I think I agree with every word of your post. The most interesting part is that many of the strippers (and indeed women in general) most likely to try and play you in the said manner are most vulnerable to you simply turning their exact game around on them. Textbook David DeAngelo.
  • FONDL
    19 years ago
    We had a discussion thread on this board some time ago (in fact I may have started it) about some people preferring to have a cooperative win-win relationship with strippers while others prefer to play a competitive win-lose game of manipulation. You guys are just repeating that discussion in different terms. Some of us enjoy relaxing with a friendly lady in a club, some of us want to play games. We are there for different reasons and looking for different things. Neither approach is right or wrong, they're just different. And I think they say a lot about who you are.
  • Mouse
    19 years ago
    davids, like you indicate with the cat-dangling-string analogy, people love the challenge of the chase – indeed, to women it's ROMANCE itself. (Romance = female pornography.) When there's no chase, there's no challenge and no more romance - just boredom, and you're soon history. I always keep some pizzazz in the relationship by never being too easy or too available. Play the coquette and withdraw on occasion to keep her from taking you for granted. Make her chase you. Conquers (like yourself) are especially vulnerable to this ploy, and strippers exchange the chase for money all the time. Strippers are always just out-of-reach – it’s their aura. They know this and use it daily for many guys who visit strip clubs. Some strippers are so intent on getting your money – so competitive with each other – that you can use it to your advantage. Get them charging back-and-forth with each other competing for your business – then dupe them into giving you the highest mileage. To do this, don’t become one of their regulars or develop ATFs – it’s then they’ll take you for granted. Stay aloof from all, just go for mileage, mix-it-up (this one today, that one tomorrow, etc.), and don’t let them sink their tender hooks into you. Who knows, soon you’ll have one outside the club. Good luck!
  • davids
    19 years ago
    Mouse: The following quote might be a good analogy of how a flayer (female player) would play a conqueror: From p.33 of _The_Game_: "Have I ever told you about cat string theory?" "No." "Listen. Have you ever seen a cat play with a string? Well, when the string is dangling above its head, just out of reach, the cat goes crazy trying to get it. It leaps in the air, dances around, and chases it all over the room. But as soon as you let go of the string and it drops right between the cat's paws, it just looks at the string for a second and then walks away. It's bored. It doesn't want it anymore."
  • Mouse
    19 years ago
    Casualguy, I think you make a very good point with you comments, "In this sense I believe it is common for strippers to play guys in strip clubs selling them a fantasy that she likes them more than the other guys etc. etc. Business often behaves the same way making customers feel special or delivering good customer service, unless they have a monopoly and start taking customers for granted." This is all so true in life.
  • Yoda
    19 years ago
    Mouse and CG are dead on with their comments. I have a fave who whispers in my ear that she is giving me a special deal on the VIP room that I do with her when I visit because she likes me. I happen to know at least three other guys that she whispers the same thing to. Do I care? Hell no! The price IS bellow fair market for her club and the session is amazing! It's all about marketing and the rules and principls that dancers apply are commonly practiced in many sales oriented industries.
  • casualguy
    19 years ago
    I believe a smart stripper will like to count on certain regulars and will even assign a certain dollar amount range to each guy that she can get every week or month depending upon how far thinking she is. Then she can either string these regulars along selling them a fantasy while possibly enjoying their company as well. Of course at that point the regular has become a routine customer like a supplier to Walmart. All the other people become bonus points to rack up or possibly even a new regular if she plays her cards right. In this sense I believe it is common for strippers to play guys in strip clubs selling them a fantasy that she likes them more than the other guys etc. etc. Business often behaves the same way making customers feel special or delivering good customer service unless they have a monopoly or start taking customers for granted.
  • Mouse
    19 years ago
    davids, maybe all your friend had to do was start talking to them (rather than being shy) and unconsciously advertise - I'M AVAILABLE. Once the chicks get the message and, if he's innately attractive, he'll quickly become a chick magnet. The "reading" may have helped to increase his confidence. But, I doubt the "detail" were that critical.
  • Yoda
    19 years ago
    Some are and some are not. Mostly what a good stripper is is a good actress. She is playing a role-whatever roll it takes to get your cash.
  • davids
    19 years ago
    AN: Strippers and other employees are prudent enough to know when business is slow and they aren't jepordizing money by talking to you for free. Usually if I mention the fact that they might want to try and make money, and they'll say something like "don't worry, I've already worked this crowd: no money coming out of them tonight". Then I don't mention it in the future, since it would be insulting them to imply they don't know better. As a concession to their monetary concerns: I would recommend visiting on slow nights: Tuesday and Wednesday, for instance are slow around here. (Some clubs have gimmicks on various nights so ask the strippers which nights are the slowest if you aren't sure.) As for it being rude to play strippers against each other, the strategy I devised was carefully devised to be undetectable to them. Even if they did figure out (and it would take a long time) you are doing nothing wrong by timing your visits to promote competition so they have nothing to get upset about. And if they do get upset that is good too so you can make fun of them about it: "what are you my wife?", "it's not like you're not seeing TONS of other guys", etc... Finally, you may think it is wrong, in general, to be rude to women (perhaps you don't in which case the rest of this paragraph does not apply to you). The truth is quite the opposite. Women enjoy rudeness if it is done in a humorous way (and at certain appropriate moments in a serious way too). For example if a stripper takes a long time to get to you tell her "Geessh... You friggin took forever to come and see me. I almost feel asleep waiting for you. I think you're starting to take my business for granted. Maybe I'm going to have to break up with you. What are you going to do to make it up to me?" Or tell her you got hungry or thristy waiting for her and now she has to buy you some food or a drink... Don't treat any women with exaagerated respect. Be as rude to them as you would be to your close male friends. Then they will respect you back. Mouse: I think I see what you are getting at. The "seduction" material is going to be of most benefit to those guys who have some natural ability anyway? For others it might matter, in the long run, or might even be harmful. I submit to you that there are certain "sleepers", however: guys who have natural ability/attractiveness but have for various reasons been too shy to utilize it yet. A friend of mine was an example of this: Very shy, geeky type until he was 28 or so and then he did some reading; it all clicked for him, and presto! chick magnet awakened! On the other hand, he was a pretty good looking guy, so you could argue...
  • AbbieNormal
    19 years ago
    DavidS, no I think you read your opinion into what many of us post. It's not that I'm too old, it's that as I've grown older I look for different things, and I can't usually find them in a 20yo girl, so I'm not really interested in dating them. You will probably say I'm deluding myself. I don't go into a strip club for dates since I don't really want to date a stripper. Again, you'll probably read what you want into that. With the above in mind I think it's rude to go into a strip club and monopolize a dancer's time, meaning she can't make money with someone else, and not give her some tips and buy some dances. I also think playing strippers off each other is rude. You seem to think that if we don't agree with you it's because we don't understand, don't value ourselves, have a poor self image, or are unenlightened. I understand, I just don't agree.
  • davids
    19 years ago
    Skeitout: No the negativists are the ones who think they have to pay women for affection, to talk to them, for love, and for sex. Truth is once you start to pay the less likely you are to get these things for free. Mine (and I think RL would be with me on this ones) is a very optimistic position: You can get the things mentioned based just on the merits of your personality. Other common negativists around here are the "I'm too old" crowd. My position is that a man can spend time in a SC and get plenty of free conversation from strippers and other employees without having to spend more than a nominal amount. The rest of the posters here say everything must be paid for. Who is more optimistic?
  • Mouse
    19 years ago
    davids, I'm not saying the "Players Guide" is invalid. In fact, just the opposite, I think much of it is valid - that is, when its used by the right guy with the skills to understand it and apply it effectively. The hard part is the latter part about "the right guy with the skills to understand and apply it effectively." Most guys who succeed with women have been succeeding with women for years. These accomplished males are already attractive and applying these concepts instinctively. Even Dr. Phil admitted that those who don't need self-help study self-help and those who need it the most don't realize they need help.
  • Shekitout
    19 years ago
    davids: Eat worms & die! Well not really but you and RL one & the same. You remind me of Debbie Downer from SNL. Always looking for the dark side and not the silver lining. In the words of Spiro Agnew "You're a nattering, nabob of negativism."
  • davids
    19 years ago
    Mouse: I don't think that it's all invalid: I have seen it work in action and it is quite astounding. My big problems with it are: 1) It is over hyped. On the surface it promises you quick fixes, but then if you read it it will explicitly tell you that there are no quick fixes. I am not fond of contradictions! 2) The material is so damn expensive. Fine if you could just justify the cost. But buying the $200 material only gives you a mariginal improvement over a $20 book (maybe adds 5% to your knowledge). I shudder to even think what a waste the $2000 seminars must be... Just master the stuff in the $20 book. Or better yet use the free resources on the internet. That way you can't be scammed. It could very well be that the material is not of much value for LTRs but I don't think anyone selling it has marketed it for that or claimed that they are interested in LTRs. On the other hand, I can see that establishing yourself as in charge and not tolerating BS right from the start is a good foundation to build an LTR on.
  • Mouse
    19 years ago
    Davids, in my opinion this PUA guru and self-help scene – including all the expensive books, seminars, etc. – is a SCAM. I went through some of this shit, bought it hook-line-and-sinker (at considerable expense), but I have the same coterie of women as before. Nothing really changed, especially in my long-term relationships. Much of this dating self-help stuff reeks of the mercenary self-help scene in general. I’ve always wondered – why don’t these self-help gurus take their own advice and become multi-millionaires. Why share their secrets with us? In stead, they’re hell-bent on telling the self-help needy how to do things – of course, for a price. Go to your local bookstore and check out the self-help section. It's huge! This is BIG BUSINESS. Clearly, there’s more money in telling people what to do than in taking their own advice. Obviously this begs the question – is their advice worth paying for? They don’t take it themselves. Moreover, there seems no end to the demand. This also begs an important question – does it work? Apparently not! Of course, their advice should not be too effect, otherwise the self-help gurus would put themselves out of business.
  • davids
    19 years ago
    Mouse: DeAngelo's stuff is quite interesting. Still I detect in him some lingering underlying resentment towards women. Some of his stuff just plain doesn't work (for me at least). For instance he suggests not smiling, but I find the opposite works much better. "Mystery" ([view link]) actually invented the "neg hit". He also seems a more naturally confident, and less bitter about women then DeAngelo does. He has some interesting ideas on dealing with strippers. Check out his archived work at [view link] (or take his $900 seminar?). I definitely agree with you that a strip club is not a good place to try and seduce women. Your 90% number is what I figured too. (Mind you 95% will tell you they don't have boyfriends/husband, I guess that is "fantasy building".) In any case strippers aren't typically good dating material, IMO. Maybe if one is looking for ONSs it would be fine.
  • Mouse
    19 years ago
    davids, yes, I've read "The Rules" as well as "The Real Rules" - the latter a follow-up book to the former making exactly the points I'm making above about the inevitable long-term result of 9s with 9s, 10s with 10s, etc. (When I talk of a 9 or 10, I’m referring to an overall alloyed score of mental and physical qualities.) Basically, “The Real Rules” state BE REAL (i.e., be honest and be yourself, it’s what determines the outcome anyway, so why not save time and cut to the chase from the start). Moreover, I had read David DeAngleo's work before – I especially like his NegHit approach. NegHits are fun, because putting down those annoying self-absorbed 10s has special enjoyment, especially as you observe them squirm under the pressure to maintain their self-image. But, some have already been exposed to the NegHit approach – alas, we are not the only one’s reading all that dating junk. By the way, the most effective charm in the strip club is what I call the “green” charm – green as defined by the color of money. Like yourself, I gave up on trying to seduce strippers, because the odds of finding the one you like without a boyfriend or husband is very slim. I’d say well over 90% are already connected to some significant other. It makes seducing them more difficult. Besides there are many more quality women who don’t strip and are unencumbered by boyfriends. Nice chatting with you! Regards, Mouse
  • davids
    19 years ago
    Foxxy: So the female players who aren't strippers aren't "gaming" for fun/personal gain? Mouse: I'm not worried about the type of strippers you describe: I've seen it all before. I might have been victim to what you describe if I had not remembered the cardinal rule all along: "Once they start suggesting or hinting at friendship/love/sex OTC for free stop paying them and find out if they are for real." Have you read _The_Rules_? I think it is a mating strategy geared at women trying to land the "conqueror" type you describe. As for your final question: Not going to the SCs much anymore. If I do now it's just to go in and chat with some "friends". The suggestions I post on this board are mostly based on reflections on my time as a regular: I think I blundered into some effective tactics and would like to save others the time of finding them out on their own. I now see that they are consistent with the literature on dealing with female players. Even if some of the ideas I suggest end up not working the REALLY, REALLY important point is that customers should do lots of experimentation and playing with strippers to see what works well with them and what doesn't. If this annoys some, or you fuck up, it's not a big deal: the next stripper will be coming to visit you any minute now and you can start all over. Better yet, stay out of strip clubs altogether, or if you go there to try and pick up strippers (be honest now) be sure not to spend money on them!
  • Mouse
    19 years ago
    davids, like I said above..."to function as high as possible within your innate range, there are basics of good manners and bodily presentation that all men should learn and apply." I believe men are EVENTUALLY going to function (and, thus, attract and keep) within their innate desirability range - hopefully at the upper end of that range. If you understand and effectively apply the seduction techniques you advocate, those methods will help. But, to do so effectively, you'd be a gifted upper level player – a player already enabled by a high innate range of genetics and socioeconomic status. Indeed, women are attracted to intelligence - intelligence that often also has status attached to it. It’s one thing to read about the “player” techniques; it’s another to effectively apply them. Not everyone can – most can’t - not even close and especially over the long haul, when the truth will eventually surface. For the bona fide 10s (both physically and mentally), you’ve got to be made of the right stuff, and it’s essentially impossible to fake. Don’t even try. Finally, strip clubs are loaded with woman WHO WANT YOUR MONEY, not your love. Why are trying to work strippers against themselves? You seem like a man who likes a challenge, but be careful. Strippers know men like you better than you may realize – games are a daily exercise for them. Indeed, you remind me of the conqueror type. These people have unusual high energy, which they find difficult to control. They are always looking for people to conquer or obstacles to surmount. They love power and by-hook-or-by-crook they get it. Sometimes they display outburst of emotion, when pushed. To seduce the conqueror (i.e., get his money), the ladies give him a good chase. The girls do not make themselves easy prey. They’ll make themselves somewhat difficult, moody, and they’ll use coquetry. They’ll get you charging back and forth like a raging bull – using your own energy against you. davids, are you doing in the strip club what you’re doing on this forum?
  • Foxxy
    19 years ago
    davids, you seem to be strangely preoccupied all the time with the whole "men vs women" thing... anyway, i think the main difference between these female players and strippers, is the female players do it for fun/self gain, and any strippers who behave like that usually do it because pretending to be interested in someone to get their money is a job requirement. either way, i guess it's still faking interest for financial gain. hmm. very interesting article though!
  • davids
    19 years ago
    Mouse: Definitely alot of advertising going on on that site. $2000 seminars, etc. However, the newsgroups and Player Guide are free and contain most of the stuff one would learn from the seminars (along with distilling/contrasting the various philosophies). I think every man should have to read the Player Guide: for self-defense, if nothing else. Hopefully Strauss's book will give out many of the good secrets for only $20 too. I've seen too many examples of guys with bad genes/socioeconomics being good players to believe it isn't something that is learnable: Even if what you are saying is true should someone who is a 7 be functioning as if they were a 4?
  • Mouse
    19 years ago
    davids, I went to that “seduction” site you suggested, and there appears to be some useful info there, but no doubt there's money to be had by those promoting the site, and it made me think who's playing whom...hmmm. I've been interested in the seduction game for some time and have read extensively about it. Having done that, I ended up back where I started – that is, with the basics that I instinctively understood before I started. Here they are: 1. Generally speaking, when boys and girls are rated 1 to 10 in desirability, 10’s end up with 10’s, 9’s with 9’s, 8’s with 8’s, etc. regardless of how well you may LEARN to play the “game.” Stated differently, it is EXTREMELY difficult to change a 6 guy into a 9 or 10 guy. If the socioeconomics and genetics are not there from the start, the results will be about the same no matter how much you "learn." Nonetheless, to function as high as possible within your innate range, there are basics of good manners and bodily presentation that all men should learn and apply. 2. Avoid the girls that don’t like you much, and date only the girls that do like you – in fact, the more they like naturally from the get go the better. To make this work for you, learn to recognize the signs that a woman likes you and, likewise, the signs that she doesn’t care that much. The biggest mistake men make in the mating game is chasing women who don’t like them. When they don’t like you much, move on and move on quickly – don’t waste time and resources on such women no matter how they look or how much you like them. Something is going to happen only if she likes you! 3. The man’s biggest enemy in the jungle of love is an overly high interest level. If he loves her more than she loves him, he’s in deep shit. When the women loves him a bit more than he loves her, then the attitude he instinctively projects is the perfect attitude. She sees this difference in interest level as challenge, and challenge to a woman is romance. These are the 3 basic rules that will keep a man in control of the situation – have realistic expectations, spend your time with women who like you, and stay a little less interested than she is. Try it a see what happens – you’ll be happy. .
  • AbbieNormal
    19 years ago
    They used to be called gold diggers. I don't think the phenomenon is all that new.
  • FONDL
    19 years ago
    I'm sure there are strippers like that even though I've never known any. But if a girl was really good at it I wouldn't think she'd need to work as a stripper, she could get all the money she needed without working anywhere at all. She'd probably have a sugardaddy or two to take care of all her bills.
  • davids
    19 years ago
    chitown: It's not money. It's conveying confidence, and other "leadership" qualities. Artists also seem to do well, too, although why women find this type so attractive has been studied much less.
  • chitownlawyer
    19 years ago
    I don't know about dancers, but that sure brought back memories of some women that I knew (and some that I chased) as a young lawyer in a major metropolitan area (far from my current home). These women would make you feel on the top of the world when you were with them, but shitty all other times. I get some spiteful happiness over the three or four of them who forget when to turn the player bit off, and are now in middle age and involuntarily alone. I guess that's why men can play the game longer and better than women...men are trading on money, which has a much longer shelf life than looks, the main commodity available to women.
  • davids
    19 years ago
    The website I posted above is free. In particular you might want to search the newsgroup archives for posting by "Mystery" on how to deal with strippers in particular. To learn more about the men who have made it their life's mission to figure out how to outplay "female players", you may want to pre-order the upcoming "The Game" by Neil Strauss. [view link] Shoot! When is this board going to support embedded hypertext? Good luck and have fun, David S.
  • davids
    19 years ago
    Strippers definitely have the mindset of female players (for the most part, there are exceptions). Then to make matters worse they are pitted against some particularly weak men so you can imagine what will happen. I still think the male player has the advantage over the female player, however. For some men, the naturals, it is completely obvious how to handle this type of women. Others will need to study a bit: I recommend [view link] for a good starting point to learn how to deal with female players. Could save you alot of money and misery in the long term. Your friend, David S.
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