Are Strippers Female Players?
Mouse
The ups and downs of dating a female player
By Jonathan Small
Listen in as one man shares what it's like to go out with one of these irresistible but dangerous creatures: The female player.
Tonight would be the night, my friend Johnny told himself.
He'd dated the lovely Sarah off and on—flirting with her over $15 cocktails at swanky clubs, trying to get closer and being pushed away. He finally decided to go for it—to show her how he really felt and pull her into his orbit once and for all. Off they went to New York for the weekend and all was going well. They laughed and kissed over dinner at a hip Japanese restaurant... that is, until a guy named Brad happened to appear.
Sarah had mentioned to her "friend," as she called Brad, that she might be in town for the weekend, and let slip the name of the place where she and Johnny would be dining. Since Brad knew the hottest parties in town, Sarah thought the three of them could team up to hit a few. Before Johnny could raise any objections, his romantic date was co-opted into a group outing—one where he was forced to watch Brad and Sarah bump and grind all night. The kicker? She ended up spending the rest of the weekend with Brad. And Johnny? He was devastated. He had no idea women acted that way. He'd been used... and it wasn't a pretty sensation.
Players. Long a label associated exclusively with men (James Bond, Mr. Big, and Alfie, to name a few), this term has increasingly become all too fitting for a growing number of women as well. Like their male counterparts, female players are always stringing along numerous suitors and thriving on all the attention—not to mention the flower deliveries. What makes her tick? And can we guys stop ourselves from falling for her? As someone who's dated one or two of these ladies (and recoils at the memory), let me share what I can on the subject. First, the good news:
Female player fact #1: There's a definite ego boost that comes from dating her.
These women don't get all this attention from guys because they're wallflowers or plain Janes. They are dazzling conversationalists, well-dressed, and very capable flirts. Says Paul, 37, "I've dated a couple of women like this, and, I have to say, they present themselves in such a great way. It's like dating a character on Sex and the City. They're full of funny stories, and they always have beautiful hair, beautiful nails, great clothes. When you're out with one of them, you feel like a clever, Hugh Grant type out on the town." That's part of what keeps a guy coming back to these women—they feel as if they're part of a rarefied, fabulous world when they're with her. Oh, and there's one more specific way in which they dazzle a guy, as you'll see in my next point.
Female player fact #2: She has incredible lingerie.
All of the guys I interviewed who had dated a female player said the same thing (looking rather dreamy-eyed): Great lingerie. "This is not the kind of girl who's going to be caught dead in plain cotton undies," says Tony, 41. "The woman I dated? She toyed with my emotions, that's for sure. But I can't help but be nostalgic for her lingerie drawer. I'd never seen anything like it. Talk about a kid in a candy store. I guess she'd accumulated that wardrobe to keep her different suitors enticed."
Now, the less-than-good news:
Female player fact #3: These women are on a power trip.
These women believe the pleasure of their company is a treasure men should work for. One player named Christie, 28, explains it this way: "I don't throw myself at guys; I see dates as a trade-off: The guy gets to be seen with a hot girl at a restaurant, and I get to eat sushi for free," she says. "I had a male friend take me to get a couples massage. He got to see me in a towel and I got pampered at a nice hotel. Sounds fair, don't you think?"
Obviously, a guy's ego can take a real butt-whupping from this kind of treatment. I don't know about you, but feeling like a doggie chasing a premium biscuit isn't exactly a sensation I cherish in my personal life. Knowing that these women see themselves as "above you" is a real cold shower in my book.
It goes without saying that guys love the thrill of the chase—and that's exactly what a female player gives them by keeping the relationship casual. "Guys don't like it when you're too eager and available, so I keep my schedule booked," explains Mary, a chic blonde who usually juggles a handful of suitors. "When you make a guy work for it, he really ramps up the romance—he's doing everything he can to impress you and be the last man standing. I'm really amazed by how hard a man will try to win me over: Orchids, dinner at the most in-demand restaurants, incredible love notes—sometimes even jewelry. It's almost embarrassing what a guy will do to get the girl."
Embarrassing, yeah. A female player's way of remaining cool, coveted and non-committal can drive a guy crazy. The prophet Jay-Z once said, "Don't hate the player, hate the game," but that's a tall order. My best advice? If you find yourself drawn into the web of one of these women, set your pride aside—and bring your checkbook.
Jonathan Small has been played like an Xbox by several women. A freelance writer based in Los Angeles, he's also co-author of the new book, The Best Places to Kiss in Southern California.
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The most interesting part is that many of the strippers (and indeed women in general) most likely to try and play you in the said manner are most vulnerable to you simply turning their exact game around on them. Textbook David DeAngelo.
From p.33 of _The_Game_:
"Have I ever told you about cat string theory?"
"No."
"Listen. Have you ever seen a cat play with a string? Well, when the string is dangling above its head, just out of reach, the cat goes crazy trying to get it. It leaps in the air, dances around, and chases it all over the room. But as soon as you let go of the string and it drops right between the cat's paws, it just looks at the string for a second and then walks away. It's bored. It doesn't want it anymore."
As a concession to their monetary concerns: I would recommend visiting on slow nights: Tuesday and Wednesday, for instance are slow around here. (Some clubs have gimmicks on various nights so ask the strippers which nights are the slowest if you aren't sure.)
As for it being rude to play strippers against each other, the strategy I devised was carefully devised to be undetectable to them. Even if they did figure out (and it would take a long time) you are doing nothing wrong by timing your visits to promote competition so they have nothing to get upset about. And if they do get upset that is good too so you can make fun of them about it: "what are you my wife?", "it's not like you're not seeing TONS of other guys", etc...
Finally, you may think it is wrong, in general, to be rude to women (perhaps you don't in which case the rest of this paragraph does not apply to you). The truth is quite the opposite. Women enjoy rudeness if it is done in a humorous way (and at certain appropriate moments in a serious way too). For example if a stripper takes a long time to get to you tell her "Geessh... You friggin took forever to come and see me. I almost feel asleep waiting for you. I think you're starting to take my business for granted. Maybe I'm going to have to break up with you. What are you going to do to make it up to me?" Or tell her you got hungry or thristy waiting for her and now she has to buy you some food or a drink...
Don't treat any women with exaagerated respect. Be as rude to them as you would be to your close male friends. Then they will respect you back.
Mouse: I think I see what you are getting at. The "seduction" material is going to be of most benefit to those guys who have some natural ability anyway? For others it might matter, in the long run, or might even be harmful.
I submit to you that there are certain "sleepers", however: guys who have natural ability/attractiveness but have for various reasons been too shy to utilize it yet.
A friend of mine was an example of this: Very shy, geeky type until he was 28 or so and then he did some reading; it all clicked for him, and presto! chick magnet awakened! On the other hand, he was a pretty good looking guy, so you could argue...
Other common negativists around here are the "I'm too old" crowd.
My position is that a man can spend time in a SC and get plenty of free conversation from strippers and other employees without having to spend more than a nominal amount. The rest of the posters here say everything must be paid for. Who is more optimistic?
Most guys who succeed with women have been succeeding with women for years. These accomplished males are already attractive and applying these concepts instinctively.
Even Dr. Phil admitted that those who don't need self-help study self-help and those who need it the most don't realize they need help.
My big problems with it are:
1) It is over hyped. On the surface it promises you quick fixes, but then if you read it it will explicitly tell you that there are no quick fixes. I am not fond of contradictions!
2) The material is so damn expensive. Fine if you could just justify the cost. But buying the $200 material only gives you a mariginal improvement over a $20 book (maybe adds 5% to your knowledge). I shudder to even think what a waste the $2000 seminars must be...
Just master the stuff in the $20 book. Or better yet use the free resources on the internet. That way you can't be scammed.
It could very well be that the material is not of much value for LTRs but I don't think anyone selling it has marketed it for that or claimed that they are interested in LTRs.
On the other hand, I can see that establishing yourself as in charge and not tolerating BS right from the start is a good foundation to build an LTR on.
Much of this dating self-help stuff reeks of the mercenary self-help scene in general. I’ve always wondered – why don’t these self-help gurus take their own advice and become multi-millionaires. Why share their secrets with us? In stead, they’re hell-bent on telling the self-help needy how to do things – of course, for a price. Go to your local bookstore and check out the self-help section. It's huge! This is BIG BUSINESS. Clearly, there’s more money in telling people what to do than in taking their own advice. Obviously this begs the question – is their advice worth paying for? They don’t take it themselves. Moreover, there seems no end to the demand. This also begs an important question – does it work? Apparently not! Of course, their advice should not be too effect, otherwise the self-help gurus would put themselves out of business.
"Mystery" (www.mysterymethod.com) actually invented the "neg hit". He also seems a more naturally confident, and less bitter about women then DeAngelo does. He has some interesting ideas on dealing with strippers. Check out his archived work at www.fastseduction.com (or take his $900 seminar?).
I definitely agree with you that a strip club is not a good place to try and seduce women. Your 90% number is what I figured too. (Mind you 95% will tell you they don't have boyfriends/husband, I guess that is "fantasy building".) In any case strippers aren't typically good dating material, IMO. Maybe if one is looking for ONSs it would be fine.
Moreover, I had read David DeAngleo's work before – I especially like his NegHit approach. NegHits are fun, because putting down those annoying self-absorbed 10s has special enjoyment, especially as you observe them squirm under the pressure to maintain their self-image. But, some have already been exposed to the NegHit approach – alas, we are not the only one’s reading all that dating junk.
By the way, the most effective charm in the strip club is what I call the “green” charm – green as defined by the color of money. Like yourself, I gave up on trying to seduce strippers, because the odds of finding the one you like without a boyfriend or husband is very slim. I’d say well over 90% are already connected to some significant other. It makes seducing them more difficult. Besides there are many more quality women who don’t strip and are unencumbered by boyfriends. Nice chatting with you! Regards, Mouse
Mouse: I'm not worried about the type of strippers you describe: I've seen it all before. I might have been victim to what you describe if I had not remembered the cardinal rule all along: "Once they start suggesting or hinting at friendship/love/sex OTC for free stop paying them and find out if they are for real."
Have you read _The_Rules_? I think it is a mating strategy geared at women trying to land the "conqueror" type you describe.
As for your final question: Not going to the SCs much anymore. If I do now it's just to go in and chat with some "friends".
The suggestions I post on this board are mostly based on reflections on my time as a regular: I think I blundered into some effective tactics and would like to save others the time of finding them out on their own. I now see that they are consistent with the literature on dealing with female players.
Even if some of the ideas I suggest end up not working the REALLY, REALLY important point is that customers should do lots of experimentation and playing with strippers to see what works well with them and what doesn't. If this annoys some, or you fuck up, it's not a big deal: the next stripper will be coming to visit you any minute now and you can start all over.
Better yet, stay out of strip clubs altogether, or if you go there to try and pick up strippers (be honest now) be sure not to spend money on them!
I believe men are EVENTUALLY going to function (and, thus, attract and keep) within their innate desirability range - hopefully at the upper end of that range. If you understand and effectively apply the seduction techniques you advocate, those methods will help. But, to do so effectively, you'd be a gifted upper level player – a player already enabled by a high innate range of genetics and socioeconomic status. Indeed, women are attracted to intelligence - intelligence that often also has status attached to it.
It’s one thing to read about the “player” techniques; it’s another to effectively apply them. Not everyone can – most can’t - not even close and especially over the long haul, when the truth will eventually surface. For the bona fide 10s (both physically and mentally), you’ve got to be made of the right stuff, and it’s essentially impossible to fake. Don’t even try.
Finally, strip clubs are loaded with woman WHO WANT YOUR MONEY, not your love. Why are trying to work strippers against themselves? You seem like a man who likes a challenge, but be careful. Strippers know men like you better than you may realize – games are a daily exercise for them. Indeed, you remind me of the conqueror type. These people have unusual high energy, which they find difficult to control. They are always looking for people to conquer or obstacles to surmount. They love power and by-hook-or-by-crook they get it. Sometimes they display outburst of emotion, when pushed. To seduce the conqueror (i.e., get his money), the ladies give him a good chase. The girls do not make themselves easy prey. They’ll make themselves somewhat difficult, moody, and they’ll use coquetry. They’ll get you charging back and forth like a raging bull – using your own energy against you.
davids, are you doing in the strip club what you’re doing on this forum?
anyway, i think the main difference between these female players and strippers, is the female players do it for fun/self gain, and any strippers who behave like that usually do it because pretending to be interested in someone to get their money is a job requirement. either way, i guess it's still faking interest for financial gain. hmm.
very interesting article though!
Hopefully Strauss's book will give out many of the good secrets for only $20 too.
I've seen too many examples of guys with bad genes/socioeconomics being good players to believe it isn't something that is learnable: Even if what you are saying is true should someone who is a 7 be functioning as if they were a 4?
I've been interested in the seduction game for some time and have read extensively about it. Having done that, I ended up back where I started – that is, with the basics that I instinctively understood before I started. Here they are:
1. Generally speaking, when boys and girls are rated 1 to 10 in desirability, 10’s end up with 10’s, 9’s with 9’s, 8’s with 8’s, etc. regardless of how well you may LEARN to play the “game.” Stated differently, it is EXTREMELY difficult to change a 6 guy into a 9 or 10 guy. If the socioeconomics and genetics are not there from the start, the results will be about the same no matter how much you "learn." Nonetheless, to function as high as possible within your innate range, there are basics of good manners and bodily presentation that all men should learn and apply.
2. Avoid the girls that don’t like you much, and date only the girls that do like you – in fact, the more they like naturally from the get go the better. To make this work for you, learn to recognize the signs that a woman likes you and, likewise, the signs that she doesn’t care that much. The biggest mistake men make in the mating game is chasing women who don’t like them. When they don’t like you much, move on and move on quickly – don’t waste time and resources on such women no matter how they look or how much you like them. Something is going to happen only if she likes you!
3. The man’s biggest enemy in the jungle of love is an overly high interest level. If he loves her more than she loves him, he’s in deep shit. When the women loves him a bit more than he loves her, then the attitude he instinctively projects is the perfect attitude. She sees this difference in interest level as challenge, and challenge to a woman is romance.
These are the 3 basic rules that will keep a man in control of the situation – have realistic expectations, spend your time with women who like you, and stay a little less interested than she is. Try it a see what happens – you’ll be happy.
.
To learn more about the men who have made it their life's mission to figure out how to outplay "female players", you may want to pre-order the upcoming "The Game" by Neil Strauss.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det…
Shoot! When is this board going to support embedded hypertext?
Good luck and have fun,
David S.
I still think the male player has the advantage over the female player, however. For some men, the naturals, it is completely obvious how to handle this type of women. Others will need to study a bit:
I recommend www.fastseduction.com for a good starting point to learn how to deal with female players. Could save you alot of money and misery in the long term.
Your friend,
David S.