discussion comment
19 years ago
Yoda: Whatever: If memory serves correctly you were the one leading the charge with "bogus statistics". Nice to see you back peddle on another one of your positions though. That's kind of amusing.
discussion comment
19 years ago
You're an interesting poster, AN, in a sort of diabolical sense. You like to subtlely twist another person's posts or "fill in the gaps" to make it look like they said something they didn't. (This is called a strawman for those who don't already know.)
I'll tell you what: I'll spell this one out for you but in the future I may well ignore if you are going to use sleazy debating tactics:
a) It has always been position that strippers do not really mean it when they say they are your friends and that it is a lie. What I was not aware of was the inside the joke and basis of rationalization it provides. Many of you didn't know it either (though it will be easy for you to lie and claim after the fact that you did). In fact, when the subject came up, I think it was you or chitownlawyer or whoever who said it meant they appreciate you as a nice customer, enjoy spending their time with you as opposed to someone else, blah, blah... What I am advancing here is that strippers do not even mean that much. They just mean you are a "regular customer". You could be nice or not. They will refer to you in the dressing room as "their friend" anyway as long as you are their regular customer. You could even be old, fat, and a grade A asshole, you will be told you are their friend anyway if you are their regular.
b) I never advanced my observation as earth shattering. In fact I implied in the very first sentence that I was bit embarrased that it took me so long to see. What it does provide, however, is an quick and easy way to interpret what strippers say: just substitute "friend" for "regular customer" and reparse the sentence.
c) I never claimed to be smarter than Hayek: In fact I credited him with a brilliant observation in the computational theory. I just said his thesis in _Fatal_Conceit_ did not rise to the level of brilliance. Maybe we could survey 20 economics professors and see if they agree?
d) Just because I disagree with the classical economists and think of them as shallow does not mean that I think I am smarter than them. What has happened with them is that they create models based on overly simplistic axioms and hence to start from shakey foundations to reach the often errorneous conclusions they did.
It's exactly like some mathematician constructing an elaborate mathematical construct that does not apply to our universe because the axioms are wrong. Sure the mathematician is still smart if he can build an elaborate and consisten model from his axioms. However, at the same time, he can be faulted, even called shallow, for starting with the shakey foundations he did.
Ok, got that?
Now on a bit of a tangent:
The real problem with the classical economists is that they were not objective (same with the Marxists): They knew the conclusions they wanted to reach and constructed the model to reach the desired conclusion: ie. free market capital is optimal.
If there is some corollary that intuitively that does not make sense, say from an ethical prespective, then rather than admitting this is a problem with the theory they will just say "well that just proves that what you thought was unethical really is ethical after all".
Anyway, you are behaving badly now, obviously upset about something and it's hurting the quality of your posts. (You started off good but have taken a nose dive lately.) Good luck getting back on track, man.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Yoda: Tell you what, find me one post where I claimed they were "statistics" and maybe you'll have some credibility (for the first time in your posting career). Else you are just another poster here who likes to attack strawmen.
Have a nice day!
discussion comment
19 years ago
Man, if you guys think you are insulting me by saying that I'm like RL, you are way off base. I actually admire the guy's honesty, intelligence, and sense of humor. I certainly don't think he is prefect but he is one of my favourite posters here.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Geessh... The profundity implied in the topic was obviously a joke, as the first sentence should have made clear. As I've said before I think that if some of you older guys here developed a better sense of humor you might not have to pay for female affection anymore. Might be able to get it for free! Imagine that!
discussion comment
19 years ago
Get real: No self respecting stripper in Seattle would even shake your hand for five dollars let alone bounce around on your dick.
discussion comment
19 years ago
mailman has some excellent points: If she rejects you then you find another woman to ask out or get dances (or whatever) from.
Asking her out early is good, but you are going to have to establish yourself as interesting and not intimidated or obsessed with her looks. She is probably going to have to get the feeling that are not just asking her out because she is hot (the exception being if you are so hot yourself that you can regularly bang hot chicks "just for fun no strings attached" and she's cool with that.)
Also "romantic dinner" doesn't sound like the most original dating idea in the world. Some creativity here will probably improve your chances too.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Word on the street is that many strippers were sexually abused as children. This is probably particularly true of the ones doing extras. I talked to many strippers whose "brother" had some kind of rap sheet/was doing time.
It won't surprise me in the least to learn that strippers have a statistically higher chances of having families members with criminal records than the rest of society.
discussion comment
19 years ago
I'd bet like 90% of strippers are taken. Shouldn't surprise you when this happens. (Although I can see why most customers might think they would be single at first: strippers, for the most, aren't exactly premier dating/marriage material are they? Rest assured that most boyfriends are just using them for sex and money... )
If you like her that much, think you can do it, don't mind ethically then try and steal her away. Otherwise just find a new stripper (there all over the place) and move on.
discussion comment
19 years ago
If anything I predict a drop in dance prices if the economy tanks (I am not certain that it will, though).
discussion comment
19 years ago
Well that's pretty close to being a funny post, parodyman. And here I had almost given up on you.
I think I can simultaneously outdo your humor and intellect however (well that's not much of a challenge the audience laughs):
I will just point out that if one does not intend to get lap dances, then it is much more logical to jerk off before you go to the SC rather than after. This will help you be sincerely disinterested in even the hottest dancers. (Plus you'll get to go sleep a little bit early once you do get home.)
discussion comment
19 years ago
Looks like you got played, sucker, and now you're still wondering about it years later.
I think the board is plumetting to new depths. We used ot have "is the stripper really into me?" now we have "was the the stripper really into me?" "could the stripper have been into me if I had played my cards differently".
As for your final post here's the deal: Most customers on this board do want OTC fun with strippers but will deny it. Then once in a while the possibility will come along and they will take it, negating everything they said before, or will wonder about it (why if it's what hey don't want) or will wonder about it years later.
discussion comment
19 years ago
AN:
No tricks. I don't lie about who I am (which is much more than most strippers are ever going to do for you). I only talk for more than 7 minutes to ones I like (note that like does not implying wanting to date or have sex with. I may just want to be friends with tme.) Otherwise I send them away.
The upside to them is that they get to have interesting conversations with someone who is going to treat them as ordinary people and not sexual commodities. Apparently some of them actually like this, and the ones who don't have the option of getting up and leaving at any moment.
In your opinion, would I be acting more ethically if I told them in the first minute "Just so you know I am not in here to buy dances. So if you need to make money go and do it."
Finally, strip clubs are all about fantasy. Hence even if I were to be lying and manipulative (which I am not) it's not really lying and manipulative: It's just fantasy, which the strippers themselves say strip clubs are all about.
discussion comment
19 years ago
I think the best criteria is just normal first date criteria: You like her enough that you won't mind spending an hour to get to know her in a more condusive environment. You don't think that would be a waste of her time or yours. Once you get that feeling and think she feels the same then ask her for the date. About 20 minutes I would say.
discussion comment
19 years ago
I don't think you have to be committed to marrying her before you ask to see her OTC (for free).
discussion comment
19 years ago
Well chandler they first had their doubts that I could get strippers to even talk to me for free over the long term (many still deny it) or that I could get phone numbers. Yeah I'm still a long way from sex for free (which I guess is the holy grial). I feel I am probably pretty close to dates, but perhaps my calibration is off. We'll just have to see.
Interesting that so many people want to see me fail. I don't understand why that is. If I figure this out I will share whatever useful knowledge I gain. If not, well it doesn't harm the rest of you any. (Maybe some strippers will feel they wasted 7 minutes on me, but it's really their own fault for structuring their sale not to take into account that many customers are not in SCs to buy dances: No rule saying you have to.)
discussion comment
19 years ago
AN: I think it's pathetic for single men to pay for conversation, non-sex or sex in some cases.
And honestly it doesn't matter if strip club regulars in cyberspace think I'm pathetic. The stripper's opinions are what matters. If they think I am pathetic they can stop talking to me.
AN: Like I said, first they doubted they would talk to me for free (many deny it still); then they doubted I could get numbers (many deny it still)... One step at a time. Rome was not built in a day. Remember I stated at the point of being a pathetic LD buying regular, so this is enormous progress already.
Just to whet your appetite though, I tried something new last visit which may have been a major breakthrough (or perhaps it was a bomb)... Too early to report success or failure though.
discussion comment
19 years ago
I think good principles here are:
When first meeting, remember cat string theory: If you want to lead a cat you can't just tell it to "come here": You need to dangle a bit of string in front of it. Specifically
a) reveal information at your pace not hers. avoid her direct questions
b) create mystery and ambiguity (e.g. is he a nice guy or a jerk?)
c) provoke confrontations about why she wants to know
d) drop hints that you know the score on strip clubs and are cycnical about strippers in general
e) give out information indirectly (eg via stories)
Now it might be easy for you to come across as too much of jerk by employing the above. It's easy to blow low to moderate self-esteem strippers (of which there are a shokingly high number) right out of the water. Some might say that is ok you don't want them anyway, which is true in some cases: e.g. if you are only staying for a bit in town and/or just going for ONSs, but in other cases you might want them around to act as social proof. It's a judgement call.
The trick to not being too much of a jerk is to employ humor. It's ok to be a jerk at first but you must be a "funny jerk", a "smart jerk", a "flexible jerk" (can be won over) and if possible an "already popular jerk".
The dynamics change as the relationship develops. You can, obviously, become more open and honest, but that is the subject for another post and in any case, it seems the first 5-10 minutes are the most critical anyway.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Dancer walks up, tries a seven minutes pitch and fails. Insists you come with her for a free dance, "then if you like it you can get more".
discussion comment
19 years ago
Sounds like a perfect oppurtunity to play them off against each other to get better "dances" for yourself. Be smart, good luck, have fun!
discussion comment
19 years ago
Does anyone consider it charity?
discussion comment
19 years ago
If your objective is not sexual then you are a PL.
discussion comment
19 years ago
I would like to elaborate on the theory and practice of playing strippers off against each other.
A couple of "givens" before I begin:
1) I assume your objective with strippers is to get the best possible dances for your money
2) I assume that you are an SC regular
Given this, the WSCR (wise strip club regular), can use a strategy based on "variable reinforcement" to increase the quality of his lap dances. "Variable reinforcement" involves randomly rewarding people for their behaviour. Although it is most useful in dog training and in getting people hooked to gambling and other addictive behaviour, it can be used with good results in other areas of life.
Now before we get into the details, let's consider a couple of questions:
1) Is "variable reinforcement" manipulative? Most certainly.
2) Should you have any ethical qualms because of this? Although ethics is, to some degree, subjective, you most likely should not. The reason for this is that nearly all strippers do not respect normal standards of ethics, and hence it is best to manipulate them before they do the same to you.
With that out of the way, onto the specifics:
1) make sure that you have about half a dozen favourites at the clubs you attend
2) make sure you get your favourites schedules (note that for most strippers these are only rough guides)
3) make sure you get your favourites phone numbers, but, and this is very important, NEVER call them. If they pester you about it repeatedly or suggest that you might have thrown it away, then either show them that it is in your cell or remember a few digits of it for them the next time you see them. Never ever call them though.
Now that you know their schedules used it in a couple of unexpected ways:
a) use it mostly to determine what nights to go in when they are NOT (yes that's right NOT) working: if you got a "dance" from one stripper recently make them miss your business, in general. But, on the other hand, sometimes do totally unexpected thing like come in two nights in a row for "dances". The important point is to not do this in any predictable pattern or based on what the stripper does. Let her try and find reasons when there are none.
b) use knowledge of dancers schedules to determine nights when multiple favourites are working. Pick one at random to get a dance from (there are exceptions to this: if one is misbehaving just ignore her until her behaviour improves).
Your conversations with strippers are very important while employing these tactis: Two strategies are good:
a) don't talk at all, or
b) if you have it, apply the charm you would to normal women (if you go to SCs b/c you a PL who can't get dates OTC then silence will probably work best until you work out your PL issues).
In your conversations it is very important to refer to your "regulars" as "friends" and to refer to getting lap dances from them as "hanging out" or "talking".
Also if you randomly determined not to get a dance from a particular stripper one night: talk quite openly about wanting to "hang out" or "talk" with another "friends" that night. Kept it clear, however, that you will still get "dances" from the one you are dissing that night in the future, however. It is also good to talk about the traits you like in your other favourites, "Oh, actually I came mostly, just to see X tonight. Isn't she cool? She has such a great sense of humor, blah, blah, blah..."
If strippers ever start acting like babies "you like her more than me" or whatever then just joke about them insecuring, or exageerate how much you like the others and what she most do to catch. The important thing here is to have a friggin' sense of humor about it.
So to summarize the strategy, the important points are to make strippers compete for your business; randomly reward them such that they'll try and think of ways to win more of your business but such that they won't be able to since they cannot control the outcome of random events; use your charming personality or silence to enjoy (or be intrigued by) the time they spend with you.
Oh, and a final note: Although this strategy's objective is not to get dates with strippers, do not be surprised if you start getting the feeling or they start hinting pretty explicity that they would like to date you. Once you reach that point you need to make a decision:
a) If you do want to date the stripper, first make it clear that you like them but are breaking off the business relation. Then ask her out. *No matter what her answer to being asked out is *never, ever* buy dances from her again*
b) If you do not want to date the stripper then either ignore the subject of dating altogether or if you don't mind possibly being a big deceptive drop humourous hints about the two of you dating but never follow up on it.
In a future post I will explain how "playing strippers off against each other" can be used by non-regulars as well.
Good luck and have fun!
Your friend,
David S.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Just do it!
discussion comment
19 years ago
Sounds like Yoda and FONDL to me.