Which option would you have chosen?

Ok, I propose a challenge to the board: Write the story from Brooke's prespective.

"I may be making too much of it, but I keep wondering what that brief change in her expression meant when I opted not to move to the bar."

^^^ Pathetic to "keep wondering" about this after all these years don't you think?

I don't mind people posting on ways to get with strippers if it's not pathetic. Your topic failed to meet that bar.

I mean you think you succeeded here b/c you were able to buy dances from her (gee that's quite an accomplishment: do they ever refuse?); get a phone number she didn't return messages for (I have never had a stripper not return a call); and wonder what that look meant years later? Well I'll tell you:

Most customers follow the strippers lead exactly. So she was just a bit surprised when you didn't. But then she adapted and was able to play you anyway.

I really don't see any way you could have got together with her given this additional information you've provided now: you were a pathetic loser regular three years prior, she knew that so was of course not going to have sex with you. Then she comes back sees you still there after three years, still spending money and begging for sex. (Not a good way to get it incidentally.) Then you are a chicken shit little pussy to scared to show up at a party, where you probably could have gotten something if you had any social ability whatsoever.

Now you are a pathetic loser regular pining about her years later.

Next time try not being pathetic and see if that helps you any.

Good luck, man.

If what I got was played, then I wish I could get played all the time. Or if, as JC speculates, she was using me to sell VIP to other guys, well, at least she was using me.

Davids, it's ironic that you think my topic should be taboo, when virtually all of your posts are about how you imagine you can play your cards so that strippers will be "into you". Make up your mind.

JC, the place we were at is far better for selling VIP dances than the bar, so I doubt if that was her intent. It could have been some other "pro" hustle, and her face could have meant nothing more than "so much for that angle". I was dubious about her 3 year layoff from dancing, simply because she was doing it again just for the weekend. Seemed unlikely, unless being back in town allowed her to relive old glories. She did seem conflicted about doing any dancing that night, but once she got started she was pretty confident and assertive for one so out of practice.

AN, my experiences with strippers attempting to play me are nearly always about emotional manipulation more than money. The money can be just a token amount to make them feel they still got something. I'm just attracted to that kind of woman, inside or outside of clubs. Not real heavy duty game players, but it's one trait of a type that I guess I find exciting. I can enjoy ambiguity. It can get me in trouble, but I turn it to my advantage, too. It sure makes strip clubs fun! I hadn't given it much thought before, but now I see how leaving things ambiguous can be a crutch. I'm not too worried about it.

As for dating, I'm not interested in trying to set up dates with strippers. They're too unreliable. Besides, I live about 70 miles from this club, and I'm not about to waste that much time. However, I am usually interested in getting together for sex with strippers after they get off work. Hey, as long as I'm in town! Early in our talk, Brooke told me about a party her friends from the club were throwing for her after work. She told me I should come, but I said sorry baby that kind of thing ain't my bag. I really can't stand being around those lifers. So, anyway, that idea was out.

As I recall, she was planning to be in my town, where her parents live, on Sunday, and my call was ostensibly about the chance of getting together then, but really, I only wanted to get my phone number to her and, of course, to see if she was really "into me". And I left no ambiguity about what I wanted. I told her when we were together how many ways I wanted to fuck her, and again on her voice mail.

Davids, very little you posted has anything to to with my topic. Stop dragging in bullshit about your own obsessions. Your broken record of self-loathing is a bore.

Wonder how many other customers Brooke tried the same scam on. Also are they still wondering about "the who got away"?

Very few of us get what we want in life. If you set your criteria at fantasy fulfilment, that's a pretty high bar. Chandler got what he wanted that night, hot dances. Wondering if there could be more is human, which you seem to equate with "loser" or weak. If the choices are a totally honest stripper who wants you, or the one who plays the fantasy angle but doesn't I'd guess the "honest" strippers are about .01%. My objection to your methods davids is that when it comes down to it you don't seem to leave room for anything between conquest and failure. There is apparently no middle ground between dating stripers and free sex and being a RIL or ATM.

He did not get what he wanted. Why was he calling if he got what he wanted? He got a worthless phone number plus some dances.

If you factor in chandler's years of pining I also bet the experience was not fun for him overall.

Just to clarify, I made my last post before I read the davids "AN; here is the difference" post. Read it in that context.

In response to davids' last post I'll just say this. The ambiguous situation is something you seek to end. To destroy actually. Some of us enjoy our fantasies. In addition, if the situation becomes ambiguous, you advocate a resolution that removes all possibility of fun with that stripper in the future. chandler spent money, but he had fun and got what he wanted. Could he have turned it into OTC? Probably not, but had he followed your advice he wouldn't even have some hot dances to remember her by (and probably would not have the phone number either).

Read my last post, dyslexia is a terrible disease. My appologies.

JC: I would not have been in chandler's situation in the first place. Could I have dated her if I somehow had to take over where he did? Very, very unlikely. Strippers don't like loser who buy dances from them and will play 'em like chandler got played. Ambiguity is a big weapon against those dumb enough to tolerate it.

I will say this once only, and it pains me greatly. davids may have a valid point. There may be some value in finding out or forcing the issue IF you get into the situation where you are feeling those feelings you don't want to feel. I still think most of your theories are, questionable davids, but you may have a point in a case like this one. Not sure I would handle it the way you advocate, after all chandler did get a number and address and attempt a contact, and got his answer, so I think that part of your criticism is a bit too much. I think his post was more of a study of a situation, like wargames at West Point, than a whine wondering if she was into him.

AN: Here's the difference, when the stripper suggested to me that we hang out OTC, I didn't let myself wonder about it or spend another dime on her: I called down on it. No money involved or wondering once she made tried to make her play. She lost money with gambit.

Now look at chandler by contrast still wondering about "the who got away" years later, what the gleam in her eye meant, and he still spent money in the ambiguous situation. (trying to have it both ways is the fundamental problem here)

And don't tell me he didn't want to see her OTC: he fucking called her/didn't reject her contact information.

Chandler, this is my tale of missed opportunity. I was in my secon year of grad school. I was dating a first year. MOst of our friends were my circle from my first year (science geeks). One friend she had bonded with was a girl I'd had a very minor fling with the previous year. This fling girl was fairly open about her bisexual tendencies. My SO had also hinted at a wild past with some group sex. One time after sex my SO somehow brought the subject around to my fling friend, who I'll call Jane (I'll call my SO Mary). So Mary starts talking about how she and Jane were doing girl talk, and that Jane was a bit depressed at having no boyfriend for a while. Well she (Jane) was a very attractive girl, and known to be a bit wild in the sack, I said I don't think she'll have to wait long. Mary then turned the talk to fantasy, and mentioned that Jane had talked about a threesome being one of hers. Fell free to call me an idiot at this point. I, thinking it was still pillow talk just said, she shouldn't have any problem finding a couple for that. The conversation shifted. I think I inadvertantly slammed the door on a threesome with two of the hottest girls I'd ever had. Fire at will guys.

Well, at least you read the body language well enough to see that whatever her plans, you upset them. Who knows what they were. As fpr being played, interesting thought davids, since no money other than lapdances (i.e. services rendered) seems to have changed hands, and to paraphrase, he got what he wanted. In a similar discussion of davids being played it seems to me he objected on the grounds that he didn't fall for her bogus offers. Here he seems to say that by keeping it ITC and getting what you want, but then leaving an opening for more (which didn't seem to pan out) you were somehow played. It seems to me that davids, you associate "played" with emotional manipulation on some level. Perhaps you could expand on how he was played.

I think we can concede he wanted sex. We all do, it's the price we argue about. Wanting sex and seeking it out are different things.

You guys are losers/get played because you clearly want to date strippers but instead of admitting it to yourselves and trying and to find out for certain "is she/was she really into me?" You just do exactly what the strippers want (you keep yourselves wondering (even years later) but still spending money) and then cry about your uncertainty online. Christ, just fuckin ask and find out.

You'll never see making a "does (did) the stripper dig me?" post. You know why? Because I will find out. Maybe it will turn out she doesn't, but knowing is much better than wondering about it for years. If she doesn't, so what. Onto the next one.

apply these principles here:

a) don't let the woman lead - piss her off instead b) make a ballsy gamble - walk around with your junk hanging out. c) go home alone and give your hand a workout just like davids does.

Did sshe ever contact you in the three years she was gone? No. She didn't give you a thought until she saw you again. Talk to her and find out what she's doing and what she would like to do. Get a lap dance or two, but that's all you're going to get.

Go to the bar. I disagree with davids (I know, shocker). Since she's only in town for a few days, have a nice conversation, get her feeling friendly and/or drunk, then hit her up for the dances if that seems to be the way to go. I don't think you lose anything by taking it slow to see where she is going.

Enquiz: I will finish the story, but only after the replies have stopped coming in. So far so good.

Changed my mind on this one (yes even after saying it was a no brainer). Clearly you were interested in more than a dance: So I would apply some principles here:

a) don't let the woman lead b) make a ballsy gamble

Tell her you would like to talk to her (we have so much to catch up on, so many interesting things have happened to me (kind of not credible if you are still a regular, but heck what have you got lose by trying...) Tell her you can't go back there at the moment because you have to go visit your grandmother who promised to bake you an apple pie. Tell her to give you her cell number and that you will meet her after work. If she complies I think this is a good sign, if not you can go back another night and try again... I would push it to the brink before I agreed to dances. In fact, why not risk not getting any dances at all? There are other strippers in the world.

Now if she does comply, I am not sure if you should call to cancel the date or not... My gut would be to push it to the brink.

Needless to say if she pegged you as a loser customer this all is going to fail, but if you think it's possible that she didn't might as well try it. If you really could not live with dances from her then I would fall back to the strategy I originally posted.

If I was enamored with her as much as you were, I'd follow her suggestion and go for the talk. The LD can always wait for a good-bye moment. Better things could happen through the conversation. But if I were in your shoes, and she made that suggestion to me, I would follow her lead. If I'm still anxious for the LD, I just wait for the opportunity. If it doesn't happen, I would probably be disappointed, but I would be more disappointed to ruin the moment. Some memories can be more precious in the future than others.

Do we get the ending to your story at some point??

OK, it's official. Even davids agrees on this one. Talk to the woman anywhere she wants to talk. If she feels comfortable with you, then good things normally happen. (At least I hope they did in this case, since it isn't hypothetical...)

This is a no-brainer: If you were interested in talking to her go back and talk to her. If you were interested in meeting her outside of work then go back and talk and ask. You are not going to get into trouble for these things and destroy your possibility of getting a dance if she turns you down. If it doesn't work then get your dances. There was nothing to lose to by going back to talk to her, so why is this even a question? (If you weren't interested in talking to her and just wanted dances then just get dances.)

JC: When I heard she had moved to Florida, I assumed it was to Tampa or the Miami-Ft. Lauderdale area to dance, so hearing otherwise was a surprise, not that it proved anything. You're right about there being no absolute "no hustle zone", restrooms possibly excepted. I intentionally left out a lot of details and qualifiers so that responses, hopefully, wouldn't get too sidetracked, but your sidetrack is certainly relevant, so thanks.

First, just because a girl says she moves to a "non-strip club city" in Florida doesn't mean that she wasn't dancing. I'm not saying that your Brooke was dancing, but several girls drive in from out of town to work at clubs. Some even prefer it that way, because the risk of having someone they know meet them in the club is lower that way.

Second, there are hardly any "non-strip club cities" in Florida. Every Florida metropolitan area has several clubs, and everywhere else in Florida is in driving range from them.

Getting back to your question, I would have gone to the bar with her to find out what was what. Offer to get dances from her -- which is what you wanted -- if all she wanted was someone to kill time in the club with. There is no such thing as a "no hustle" zone in a strip club; what you're talking about is a "no obvious hustle" zone.

A con artist is a hustler whose angle isn't obvious. They're playing on your hopes to get you to do things you wouldn't normally do given reasonable judgment.

If she's as hot as you say I would follow her anywhere. Seriously, I don't see the downside of going to the bar where I assume she is more comfortable by virtue (not a word used often in regard to sc's) of the fact that she mentioned it. I wouldn't think that just because you went to the bar that would eliminate the possibilty of later lap dance heaven. In fact, I think it would increase your chances to get better dancers after plying her with a couple of drinks and conversation to get her as comfortable as possible. So, my definitive answer is, yes I would have gone to the bar area without a moments hesitation.

chandler, I think her plan was to get you into the VIP by first moving you to a non-dance area (where dancers don't normally dance for customers) and then selling VIP there. When you said you wanted to stay away out there, her expression change was "he doesn't want VIP," followed by "time to put on a show for the other guys who might want VIP."

I'm not sure why davids thinks you got played. Maybe he actually believes that, had he been in your shoes, he would have been dating this girl. Because we all know that, in his eyes, we're all just losers who want to see strippers OTC like he does, and he's the guy who wants to date those girls. Err, wait, what's the difference? Oh yes, he has a "plan" based on some delusional, convoluted rationalizations where because he doesn't spend money on strippers means that he's better than the guys who do.

I wonder if davids can resist playing his tired old "You posted How to let go?" card. Oops, wait, I just played it for him. Now what's he going to do? ;)

Oh one more thing, she definitely didn't stop dancing when she was in Florida or wherever it was she went. She's definitely a pro (hustler) now.

Looks like you got played, sucker, and now you're still wondering about it years later.

I think the board is plumetting to new depths. We used ot have "is the stripper really into me?" now we have "was the the stripper really into me?" "could the stripper have been into me if I had played my cards differently".

As for your final post here's the deal: Most customers on this board do want OTC fun with strippers but will deny it. Then once in a while the possibility will come along and they will take it, negating everything they said before, or will wonder about it (why if it's what hey don't want) or will wonder about it years later.

Oh, and it looks like SuperDude came closest to matching my attitude about the choice. I might have presented the two optinos - table/lapdance or bar - more starkly than they were in reality, but it made for some revealing replies. Here I thought the board was generally more content to be in the club as customers, but the chance of OTC fun seems to hold a spell.

Here's what happened from the point when Brooke asked if I'd like to move to the bar:

"I'm more comfortable out here," I told her. Brooke's face sank and then quickly recovered. She had looked disappointed in me, if only for an instant. I asked if she had wanted to sit at the bar so that she could rejoin her dancer friends. I thought I might have seen her up there chatting earlier. She said they weren't really friends. She had seen all she wanted of them. She just thought we could be more relaxed away from all the activity on the floor.

I told her I was sitting at my primo table for relaxing, with my primo hot babe on my knee, and a cold beer in my hand. I wasn't inclined to move, so why not give it a go. If it's not working out, we can always try something else later. Brooke agreed without any sign of reluctance. We settled in and chatted and snuggled for about an hour before she did a couple of dances.

I said how I often wondered what had happened to her, and how surprised i was that she had survived her wild youth without turning into a druggie porn star. She kept saying she couldn't believe I wasn't married or tied down with anybody. Mostly, she talked about how much she enjoyed Florida, where she had recently earned a real estate license. She kept telling me I should come down and visit her, and we could have a lot of fun together.

The dances were great - better than her dances from years before. The way she got into it, I had to wonder about her being out of stripping for so long. Brooke had always been fun to watch dance for other guys, playing her part like a soft porn actress. Now all the guys at the nearby tables stared agape as she worked me over. After two songs, she took a break, and I gave her a backrub like in the old days. After more time chatting and caressing, we did one more dance, and then all the dancers got called onstage for a bachelor send-off.

She came back to tell me some guy had nabbed her for upstairs VIP dances, and asked if I'd be around for awhile? I said sure, I didn't have to leave right away. Then I realized how dumb that was - there was just over an hour left before closing, and Brooke could be up there for the duration - I might never see her again.

Just as she and VIP dude were about to hit the stairs, I ran over and grabbed her arm. Saying I hadn't realized how late it was, I said let's stay in touch and asked for her phone number. She wrote down her cell number, her home number and address in Florida for me, then, before heading upstairs, she gave me a long kiss on the mouth with some tongue. I called her cell phone once before she left town and I left a message on her voice mail. I never heard back and I haven't tried reaching her again.

I may be making too much of it, but I keep wondering what that brief change in her expression meant when I opted not to move to the bar. I don't let it bother me too much, though. I got what I wanted. Like anybody, I always want more, but I might have wound up with less.

So, boys, feel free to dissect or rip me a new one as you wish.

Well that's pretty close to being a funny post, parodyman. And here I had almost given up on you.

I think I can simultaneously outdo your humor and intellect however (well that's not much of a challenge the audience laughs):

I will just point out that if one does not intend to get lap dances, then it is much more logical to jerk off before you go to the SC rather than after. This will help you be sincerely disinterested in even the hottest dancers. (Plus you'll get to go sleep a little bit early once you do get home.)