Ditching ATF

39 comments

• georgmicrodong

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  5 years ago

  Presumably the dancer in question knows the reason you stopped seeing her as well. I can't imagine she'd want to interact with your any more than you want to with her. Don't over think it, and stop with the analysis paralysis. Just go. Worry about how to handle *her* only if she approaches you.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  I think you need to go to a good-surgeon for him to reattach your balls.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  It's fucking business; not a marriage - you don't owe her any excuses/reasons nor does she owe you any - you see who the fuck you wanna see in the club and so does she. Too many PLs on here don't seem to be able to distinguish a strip-club business relationship from a real-life genuine relationship - at the end of the day you are just a customer and you pay/patronize who you want as a consumer - she doesn't give a fuck about you other than your $$$, thus you don't owe her any explanations nor should you care what she thinks b/c she doesn't think or care about you other than your $$$.
• ChesterCheetah

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  5 years ago

  Thanks for the clarity. Easy to get deluded that these things mean more than just $$$ rofl. This will make it easier to find someone new for fun and games. I’m pretty sure this chick will miss my cash soon enough which will be the best revenge. I was getting kind of bored with her anyways . The ‘fun’ we were having otc was of diminishing returns anyways. I hope seeing her best friend at the club won’t be an issue. Sometimes even though it’s just for cash sometimes these girls seem to act like it’s high school.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  Strip club "relationships" are relationships built on $and - a good dancer knows how to play her role to keep a customer happy but at the end of the day you are just a customer and just a mean$ to an end, and once she has no need for you you are "out of sight out of mind" and she's on to the next business opportunity - IMO one can't put much, if any, stock, w.r.t. a woman one is paying to be w/ you - not saying it's wrong or bad, just one should have proper expectations of what it is and what it ins't - as the saying goes "don't hate the playa hate the game" - the game is what it is. It is not uncommon for many of these girls to flake on you, or take you for granted as a regular thinking the regular worships the ground she walks on - to be fair, many regulars also become a PITA to deal with and want more from a dancer than she's comfortable w/ and basically want her to be like a girlfriend and for her to feel like he does - many PLs see "love" but most dancers just see $ signs - it's the reality of the game - as we say around here on TUSCL, "a strip-club is not a girlfriend supermarket" and not the place to go looking for an S.O. or someone to fill that void - it's a paid-service, not a genuine relationship (with rare exceptions).
• DeclineToState

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  5 years ago

  @Papi: -->"It's fucking business; not a marriage - you don't owe her any excuses/reasons nor does she owe you any - you see who the fuck you wanna see in the club and so does she." -->"you are just a customer . . . she doesn't give a fuck about you other than your $$$" Amen. Thanks for the reminder. A few CFs I've gotten to know, I really like them as people. But it's bizarro world and emotional attachment unlikely to end well
• ChesterCheetah

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  5 years ago

  yeah definitely the mind set I go in with. This is the problem with seeing the same dancer with more of a ‘stripper baby’ relationship. When lines are crossed it’s a bad idea on both parts , personally I think these things should be kept to otc dates and not get involved in their lives . I always think the stories are ploys to try to extract more money. Then it’s time to call it quits. It was a good deal until that happened .
• anthony6613

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  5 years ago

  Great advise Papi.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  Yeah - once they start w/ stories of woe and financial emergencies and hardships, then you officially become their personal-ATM and a mark, vs a just a customer paying for their services.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  Nothing wrong w/ being in a relationship w/ a dancer and enjoying it as long as one sees it for what it is and know how the game is played - seeing it as a real relationship usually turns out badly for the PL - when dealing w/ these girls one needs to have a backbone and not be "Mr Niceguy" and "Mr Fix It" b/c this will often get used against you and you being taken advantage of. One is paying them for them to take care of you and make you happy/satisfy-you, per se - doesn't make sense to be paying them and fixing all their suppossed problems and be their caretaker- not to mention most of the shit they say/make-up are often lies to just extract $$$ from RILs or unsuspecting/inexperienced SCers that can't see the difference b/w strip-club bizarro-world and the real-world.
• Subraman

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  5 years ago

  I'm an advocate of "smile, say hi, tell her you're with Porsche tonight but it was really nice seeing her", and move on . If YOU act like you did something wrong, well, the girls can smell fear, intimidate, and bitch-itude. I have been where you are OP, where it felt like it was some huge issue, like seeing your ex-girlfriend who doesn't realize she's your ex- yet. Be nice, smile, exchange pleasantries, move on as if nothing is wrong... because nothing is. It is tougher if you made her a "stripper baby" -- I know, since I do that with my ATFs -- but you will be absolutely shocked how normal everything is if you just move with calm confidence
• ChesterCheetah

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  5 years ago

  Problems started when she got used to the special treatment but I had to slow it down for a bit. Then the drama started with I need money for this and that and since I’m only into PPM arrangements I just said well you’ll just have to wait til I see you again . I don’t think her stories were lies but she’s not hurting for cash being a successful dancer with a well dressed ‘boyfriend’. Just made me sense she thinks I’m a mark and screw that. This isn’t why it ended though lol.
• ChesterCheetah

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  5 years ago

  There was some real drama at the end which I can’t really get into. Otherwise things would have gone on for some time I’m sure. So now it would be somewhat awkward but I’m thinking the best way to handle is just what others have said, realize this was really just a business arrangement and as such we are both entitled to find a better one.
• herbtcat

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  5 years ago

  Generally agree with @papi. You don't need to apologize to the cashier at Burger King when you drive past on your way to Popeye's for one of their stupid chicken sandwiches. BK knows you will return for a Whopper in due time.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  As Subraman mentioned, you don't need to be an ahole - some of these girls will sink their dancer-teeth in if they see their antics get to you - personally when dealing with women strippers or not I've found acting indifferent works best - and feeling indifferent works even-better but if you don't feel that way then fake-it-till-you-make-it. And best to not hold on to grudges - getting burned by strippers has happened to the best of us - again it's part of the game - most dancers are straight/fair but if one clubs enough you will run into some serious sharks disguised as dolphins.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  Many of these girls live day-to-day and not uncommon they sometimes become dependent on a good cu$ty to were they'll stop going to the club and live off of that custy - then they freak out when the gravy-train no longer is coming to the station.
• McNaffles

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  5 years ago

  Well, CC, you likely will know which days she doesn't work and also the scene in the club. So pretty straight forward to move onto the next CF. Depending on the club, may be worth avoiding any clique the ex-CF had unless you like extra drama.
• PaulDrake

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  5 years ago

  I would buy a dance or two from her and then let her know that you are "doing a variety day today".
• twentyfive

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  5 years ago

  I think that for a lot of guys that they enter a strip club under a mistaken notion that they are the hunters and the girls are the prey, and it gets flipped on them, because they don't recognize who the true big game hunters are in this business.
• ChesterCheetah

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  5 years ago

  she was a cute lil dolphin in disguise but really a great white lol. I was playing a little reverse romance hustle but at one point felt like Brad Pitt in 7 where Morgan freeman says ‘ John Doe has the upper hand’ for those who’ve seen the movie . I like the acting indifferent approach and going for some dances and moving along would work nicely too. Thanks Papi.. words of wisdom.. fake it til u make it lol
• rickdugan

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  5 years ago

  ===> "I think you need to go to a good-surgeon for him to reattach your balls." This, lol. Unless you want to give her the power to decide where you club and who you spend your time with, you need to saddle up and deal with it. But as far as the rest, I think that some of the comments on here were a bit simplistic given the situation (no offense Papi and Sub). OTC always has the potential to change the dynamic between a customer and a dancer, especially when it has been a regular thing for some time. The money alone, without any other considerations, has the potential to increase drama. It sucks to lose a good source of side cash. Additionally, many girls who agree to OTC still don't think of themselves as prostitutes and don't want what they've done with a club customer to get around. This is especially true of girls working in more conservative clubs. They rightly fear that, once the relationship is over, a customer may be more likely to run his mouth to someone else. Now I have no idea what kinds of money, girl or club are involved in this situation, so I won't try to make any specific predictions. Increased drama is of course by no means assured, but it would be foolish not to be prepared for it . Simply go to the club and follow her lead. If she ignores you, then proceed as you wish. No need to make things weird if she's already over it. If she comes over and sits with you, then IMHO it's best to deal with the situation head on. I would something like "Hey, you've been awesome, but I have to admit that I'm itching for a little variety now. But I hope you know that you don't have to worry about me running my mouth - not my gig." After this, I'd also continue to tip her a bit onstage as a sign of my continued appreciation. Not only is this a way to put a tie on the end of the arrangement, but it is also a humane approach. Of course it requires a ball sack to overcome whatever natural fear of conflict you may have. Alternatively, you could run some passive aggressive bafflement angle and blow her off like she's just being unreasonable. But take it from someone who has been in this situation more than a few times when I say that this can backfire badly if the girl decides that she's been scorned. Now sometimes there isn't much you can do to stop her from pissing in the well even when you do deal with it head on, but you certainly increase your chances of minimizing potential drama when you do so.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  "... I think that some of the comments on here were a bit simplistic given the situation ..." For an experienced SCer/TUSCLer, stating the basics is like saying the sky is blue. We get these type of threads every now and then where a poster posts about a dancer-relationship gone bad as if it hit them out of the blue and totally unexpected given how the "relationship" had been till then - experienced SCers/TUSCLers know how not to get into these situations, or at least not be shocked if it happens b/c he may have led his guard down a bit - most experienced SCers/TUSCLers don't have a need to post these type threads - thus I assume when someone does it's b/c they may be somewhat oblivious to the obvious/basics and why IMO sometimes the obvious basics need to be stressed to them - experienced SCers/TUSCLers are able to handle these situations w/ more "sophisticated techniques" per se and to them the basics are like saying the sky is blue - many of us have been at this for years but the unfortunate reality is that there are many guys walking into clubs mostly to completely clueless of what strip club bizarro world is really like and are unable (sometimes unwilling) to see/detect the basic warning flags. I offer "simplistic"/obvious advice to those that seem are not aware of the obvious due to lack of experience; not as the best advice from the POV of an experienced SCer/TUSCLer.
• Skin4Win

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  5 years ago

  First thing you should do is be honest with yourself about what you are actually wanting to accomplish. From some of your replies (like revenge) it sounds more like you’d like her to believe you’re moving on and miss your money rather than you actually wanting to move on without any drama. This is common especially in situations like yours where it’s been a longer term otc/stripper baby arrangement. If you truly are wanting to move on and have no further interest in this girl, including how she thinks of you or your money, then the best way to do that is like mentioned above just act like nothing happened and just don’t spend on her anymore. If asked tell her it was just time for something else. The only reason to do anything different is if you’re still wanting her attention because she misses you (re: YOUR MONEY!)) which like I said is common. If that’s the case good luck to you because it’s a never ending game of drama that you will pay for in money, time and headaches.
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  I don't see the point of him getting dances from her or him tipping her at the club if they are not on good terms or if he does not have interest continuing the relationship - I would think that would be sending mixed-signals and her possibly taking it as if he's still interested and that everything is ok - the relationship can still be salvaged if he's interested but it would require and understanding upfront about what both parties expect and also require the OP to clearly know what these relationships are and what they aren't - i.e. she doesn't see you as a love-interest or even a friend, just as a good business opportunity (w/ rare exceptions) - if you are looking for true/genuine feelings on a stripper's part then sooner than later you will be disappointed; these P4P stripper relationships are not meant to be as most normal dating relationships in the real-world; it's two different animals and are meant to be enjoyed in different ways and w/ different strategies. Again it's business - if one dilutes themselves into thinking it's more than that or that $$$ isn't the primary, and often sole, reason, and one becomes emotionally invested, then one is kinda in no-man's-land and setting themselves up for failure/disappointment b/c those emotional feelings one may get are rarely felt on the other side (by her).
• Papi_Chulo

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  5 years ago

  A custy is the one paying and should be the one in control w.r.t. what happens in the P4P relationship and set the standards - dancers are mainly if not solely interested in the $$$, if one gives them what they want (the $$$) but also doens't set/require expectations from her, many will start asking for more and providing less and less b/c the custy did not set any standards from the beginning.
• Phandy

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  5 years ago

  When it gets fuzzy is when she stops caring about the $$$. If that’s not the case, it’s business. I’ve had 2 dancers in my PL career tell me not to pay them and ended up dating them. It can happen but very rare and they aren’t going to change so even if that happens you better be ready to deal with the fact they’re still at a minimum dancing if not more for other dudes.
• ChesterCheetah

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  5 years ago

  Oh it was business no denying that lol. And I know how freely she gives out her number so God knows how many dudes bang her on the regular. I was seeing her daily for a couple months tho so I’m sure she was getting pretty used to getting treated like a princess. She liked my baller lifestyle and I enjoyed the game of delivering some ‘romance’ which I’m sure her pimp wasn’t giving her. When I stopped abruptly she seemed to have real difficulty going back to the club daily but then the drama started with her needing money for this and that which I wouldn’t do. And calls for emotional support when she’d fight with him or her dog was sick etc.
• Call.Me.Ishmael

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  5 years ago

  If it looks like I'm going to see a dancer regularly OTC (but even ITC sometimes), then I set down some ground rules early on about begging for money, drama / complexity, and even being late for our get-togethers. Importantly, I also give them the opportunity to set their ground rules with me. But the most important point is that we *both* have the option to end the relationship without reason. And, if that happens, we need to figure out how to be in the same room without drama. Often, how a dancer reacts to that talk tells me whether or not she's going to work out. And I move forward (or not) accordingly. One dancer very honestly said "I'm a mess right now and I can't promise any of those things." The difficult bit is sticking to the "terms". So far, I've been pretty successful (with a few missteps). Anyway, there's a lot to be said for setting expectations early on.
• Call.Me.Ishmael

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  5 years ago

  Honestly, the gist of what I do and expect is not far off (minus the immigration stuff...). And, I accept any accusations that how I set things up might be too "business-like" for some guys. That's fine. But, my counter argument would be that saying all of this up front often saves me from serial drama down the line. Not always, but often. So, it's worth it for me.
• rickdugan

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  5 years ago

  ===> "Your employment is at will employment and you are free to resign at any time for any reason or for no reason. Similarly I can also conclude our involvement at any time with or without cause." Funny heaving, though the agreement you draft for CMI should probably include a non-employment clause like the following: **Not an Employment Contract. The agreement shall not be deemed to constitute a contract between the John and the Sex Provider identified herein, or to be a consideration for, or an inducement to, or a condition of, the employment of any Sex Provider.** After all, we wouldn't want CMI to be sued under employment laws for sexually harassing a girl who is being paid to suck his cock, would we? ;) While you're at it, you no doubt will consider a limitation of liability for pregnancy, right? You have to draft that up special of course because it probably won't be in your template IC agreement, but you wouldn't want to send CMI in unprotected in the event that he enters her that way, would you? And of course don't forget the non-disclosure provisions, though, as we've seen with our current President, they might not hold up so well if CMI runs for political office. Can't hurt though I suppose. Perhaps you could detail the list of sexual services that she needs to keep confidential just to add some more teeth to the agreement.
• Call.Me.Ishmael

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  5 years ago

  I only look dumb enough to run for any political office. But I'm not, so that's not a problem. Everything else... I'm taking notes.
• Nidan111

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  5 years ago

  Holy shit. This is exactly why I will never have an ATF nor a CF. It is a fucking fantasy that I leave at the club as soon as I walk out that door. I pitch the phone numbers and the Facebook data and many times (not always) will forget their stage name by the next day.
• Clubber

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  5 years ago

  I stopped with my ATF because of distance. No other reason. Still saw her some afterwards because she knew my family. During those times she was rather cold to me, but I understood.
• Icee Loco (asshole)

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  3 years ago

  Chestercheetah geordie. I guess so much for that amazing wife of yours 😭😭😭😭🤡🤡🤡
• ChesterCheetah

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  3 years ago

  Hey buddy watch it. Disrespecting someone’s wife is totally not cool even for scum bags that hang out in this forum.
• rickdugan

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  3 years ago

  ===> "Chestercheetah geordie. I guess so much for that amazing wife of yours 😭😭😭😭🤡🤡🤡" The naivete of that comment is just silly. Without married men looking for a little side variety the strip club industry would largely cease to exist. As one dancer recently said to me, "They're all married, at least the ones that have real money to spend." Now obviously that's overly simplistic and not always the case, but most weird loners who are struggle in the romance departments also struggle to deal with people in work settings, which often results in lower personal income ceilings. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but the reality is that most successful guys are married (or divorced) with kids.
• Icee Loco (asshole)

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  3 years ago

  I'm passing this on to some stripper hoes at little darlings do they get a heads up on this weirdo. Proof he's geordie in my photos....screenshots
• Mate27

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  3 years ago

  ^^^ why you trolling? Lulz
• wallanon

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  3 years ago

  I dunno about "geordie", but when I decided that the situation with my ATF needed to be set aside I just showed back up at the club looking for something new. We'll still talk (and more) every so often ITC, but it's probably not going back to what it was during the COVID lockdowns.