tuscl

Saying "no" is not rude.

herbtcat
Cool Cat in the Valley
Sunday, August 25, 2019 8:58 PM
Seeing multiple discussions from PL's asking how to decline a tip, dance, drink, etc. for a dancer or bar girl without "being a dick" or without "being disrespectful." Gentlemen, sac up, please! Are you worried about being a dick by saying no in a restaurant when your waiter asks you if you want a salad with your steak? Are you worried about being a dick at your house if your gardener asks you if you want him/her to plant flowers? Are you worried about being a dick in your car if that crack 'ho you picked up on Figueroa & 7th Street asks you to put you fingers in her ass? Saying is no is just saying no. Being a disrespectful dick has nothing to do with saying no. As an old mentor once told me: It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Please don't make me make Muddy revoke your man cards.

111 comments

  • AnonymousJim
    •
    5 years ago
    It's actually in the dancer's best interest that, if you're going to turn her down no matter what, you do so quickly. It gives her more time to work on someone who might actually be a buyer. I'm not saying you should turn someone down impolitely or rudely, but having a good list of excuses never hurts. "Sorry, I'm waiting on someone else," is technically not even lying. If she doesn't get the message and keeps trying to work on you, that's her wasted time, not yours.
  • wallanon
    •
    5 years ago
    "Are you worried about being a dick by saying no in a restaurant when your waiter asks you if you want a salad with your steak? Are you worried about being a dick at your house if your gardener asks you if you want him/her to plant flowers?" If I'm traveling, I usually have about an hour in a club to get through what I want if there's a dancer that catches my eye. Last time I was at Follies I spent about 3 hours there, which is an exception and I knew it'd be my last time there for a while. Point being, if the pushy dancers that are hard pressed for cash hit me in the first few minutes, is it worth me derailing the rest of my visit on the off chance the girl I'm trying to clear out of my space is the locker room bestie with the dancer I actually want? Or is going to cause a stink because I'm her 10th rejection of the shift and her self esteem goes kablooie? $2, $3, or $5 (depends on if she's a bottom feeder or maybe someone I'd wave over later if the lineup is garbage) is nothing versus a wasted visit because the vibe got thrown off. Plus, the better dancers know what's up and being decent can be the difference between being "next" in line and being the guy she'll walk over to last if she still needs to make her tip out. How many threads have we seen on TUSCL where some guy is ass hurt because he waved money and "bitches" just stared or ignored him entirely? Saying "no" is not rude. That much is true. But I'm in a strip club to spend money to have fun, and I've been doing this long enough to know saying "no" if I'm a new face can be self-defeating if I haven't got the lay of the land before the banditas strike. I've also learned how to communicate what I'm interested in well enough where at most I'll get two or so hanger ons before the girls sort out who should walk over. The days of having a conga line of hoodrats bugging me for $2 is pretty much over unless I'm in a club full of hoodrats, then that's on me for staying.
  • prevert
    •
    5 years ago
    I seldom travel and when I do its with my kids so I guess if I was in unfamiliar territory it might be different. But here at home, it I’m not interested, then I’ll just say no. Probably nonthank you, but it’s a no whichever way I say it. I don’t think it’s impolite for me to say no just like it’s not impolite for her to say no she won’t fuck me.
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • AtAboy
    •
    5 years ago
    Assuming I’m in a club where I never go or rarely and know one knows me and therefor doesn’t know I spend. I don’t want to establish myself as someone right away that’s not spending. I usually say I’m just enjoying the stage and will be interested in dances later and will find her if I’m looking for her. I think her and ask her name. But I also keep it in mind that I may want to start attending this club more often at some point and I want to be viewed positively by as many of the dancers, bouncers, bartenders as possible. Telling the waiter no at a restaurant is not personal. He is not being personally rejected. Telling a dancer no, regardless of how thick their skin is, is still a rejection of her appearance at the least. I know these girls are used to it, but in my very younger years I knew a few girls that danced. And it still occasionally got to them when they had say a lot of rejections in a shift or were just having an off day to begin with. Yes it’s part of the job, but that doesn’t mean they’re not ever bothered by it. Maybe if they are this isn’t the profession for them, but I just prefer to remember that when talking to a dancer. However, I do agree it how it’s said. And it’s absolutely possible and ok to say no in a way that’s not rude. I had one dancer I ignored recently because she was just going on and on about awkward and inappropriate stuff. I think she was very high on something. I didn’t know how to handle that situation since she already seemed agitated and I didn’t want to cause a scene. Thankfully she got the hint and left after a few minutes. I like to stay very low key at clubs, keep things calm, and everyone happy. I find a little of that goes a long way. It’s less about needing to sac up, and more about the fact that I’m probably being slightly manipulative to keep people on my good side, should I decide to make this a club I frequent. I’m not afraid to speak up, but I know I’m there for an experience and it’ll be much better if I’m at least not disliked. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
  • AtAboy
    •
    5 years ago
    Should say I thank her and ask her name.
  • whodey
    •
    5 years ago
    "As an old mentor once told me: It's not what you say, it's how you say it. " Herbtcat, I think this is exactly what the people asking were referring to, it's not that they think saying no is bad, but they are trying to figure out how to say it the best. It's best to come across as polite at possible when turning down a dancer, especially in clubs that you don't go to often enough to have a reputation for spending money. It may turn out that the 7 you are blowing off when you first arrive in hopes of finding someone better turns out to be the best girl on shift and you end up wanting time with her later. This will go a lot better if you politely decline her initial offer instead of rudely blowing her off. Don't forget that dancers spend a lot of time talking to each other and it is often about the customers. Do you really want a girl who you blew off because she is completely not your type telling the dancers you are interested in to avoid you because you are just "a rude broke asshole" before you ever get a chance to talk to them? I have no problem turning down dancers for a number of different reasons, but I always try to be nice when I do. The only exception is when I have been trying to politely tell a girl no and she just won't leave me alone. Then I gradually get more blunt with her and have occasionally had to be downright rude to get her to comprehend.
  • Muddy
    •
    5 years ago
    Lol Herbtcat. It true it’s how you say it. One guy on here is a was it Liwet said like he stops them midsentence and puts his hand 🤚 and says no. That is an easy way to make some enemies in a club lmao!
  • Subraman
    •
    5 years ago
    While I totally understand being a bit more accommodating in a new (to you) club where you don't quite know the norms or any of the girls. But I think this notion that, if you don't start saying no or tipping girls you're not interested in, they're going to fuck up your whole trip, is a hobgoblin that lives just in your mind. Or rather, something you're inventing to justify your actions, which are based on insecurity. Which, BTW, is a perfectly reasonable explanation -- if you get nervous in new clubs and appeasing the hustlers helps calm you, then own it as such, and I get it. But no, I absolutely do not buy that turning down some hustlers will impact your experience one bit. If anything, now everyone in the club knows you're a mark, not the way to navigate your way to the best experience in a new club. I do strongly agree in being polite and respectful, even in your "no thank yous", unless she keeps pushing.
  • twentyfive
    •
    5 years ago
    I’m still amazed that there are so many grown men that are so easily intimidated by a young woman in her underwear.
  • rickdugan
    •
    5 years ago
    I'm past caring about what is rude or not. I'm there for my entertainment, not to spare the feelings of girls who probably shouldn't be dancing in the first place. In fact, when a fatty or fugly heads my way I'll often shake my head or wave my hand in a brushing motion so that I don't even have to talk to them. This rarely seems to prevent the hotter girls from coming over soon after.
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    Waving off girls in a large busy club I doubt would matter. Lots of girls are minding their own business and might not notice. In a slower or smaller club, yes girls are more likely to compare notes and may not approach you if somebody thinks you’re an asshole. But idk, it’s stupid common for customers to want to “watch you on stage” or “I’m waiting on my cheese fries” first as a delay tactic and won’t think of you poorly for it. Now granted, that means that you will be put lower on the priority list for her to approach later if she finds another customer who is already “ready to go”, but if it’s slow enough then it won’t matter. ...Unless it’s slow enough that she gets discouraged and parks her butt in the dressing room. I remember at one club dayshift, a customer gave me a stern lecture about my behavior, but then soon after did take me to the back for a couple of dances not too long after anyways. Lmao
  • Cristobal
    •
    5 years ago
    Saying no does not make you a dick, it is how you say it that determines your penileship. Learn to say no know respectfully and everything will be OK. I felt at first rejecting a dancer would lessen my chances with other dancers but quickly I learned this is about me and my entertainment.
  • AnonymousJim
    •
    5 years ago
    You have the money. You control how you spend it. If you see a lady you want to spend it on badly enough, you will find a way to flag her down when she's free. Neither she nor the club will care how much you were spending before. I see no good reason to spend money on women you're not interested in, even if that earns you a reputation as a non- spender. When it comes time to spend it, they'll take it. The only reputation you'll get spending your money foolishly wil be as a ATM PL.
  • Subraman
    •
    5 years ago
    -->"In a slower or smaller club, yes girls are more likely to compare notes and may not approach you if somebody thinks you’re an asshole. " I'm guessing you're addressing Rick, who takes the waving off approach. But in the case of "polite no" to hustlers, I don't think it has the slightest negative impact, even in small clubs. In fact, IME all the strippers know who the vultures are, and politely turning down those vultures has not ever impacted my experience negatively. Even if a great stripper is friends with a hustler, a stripper ALWAYS knows her friend is a hustler and understands why some guys don't bite. Does this match w/ your experience?
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    5 years ago
    Dancer: "Do you mind if I sit with you?" ISHMAEL: "I know you're working and I don't want to waste your time. I'm not looking to buy dances and I'd rather hang out and watch the stage for now." Or something like that. Direct. Polite. Simple.
  • twentyfive
    •
    5 years ago
    ^ What’s so hard about saying I’m looking now I will let you know later if I’d like some company Sheesh guys this isn’t rocket science, when you go to Disney do you pick the rides, when you go to the movies do you see what you want so why should this be anymore difficult
  • Bavarian
    •
    5 years ago
    No, Thanks. That’s it. Don’t even bother making up an excuse. They don’t care and are going to leave you talking mid sentence.
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    5 years ago
    It's not difficult or complex, but I do think it's important to be respectful and somewhat kind. Because you're rejecting a person, and specifically a woman based most likely on her appearance. That's a hair more complex than choosing one salsa over another at the supermarket. And yeah, I get that rejection is part of the job it takes only an extra second or two to be considerate. To each their own.
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    5 years ago
    Heaving said "I feel bad, I'm too easy to guilt trip." That's squarely your problem. "And those are rides, these are people." Specifically, they're people who want to get paid. They are at work. If you invite them to sit with you, chat them up for however long, and don't buy dances, then you aren't doing them any favors. You're just wasting their time.
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    5 years ago
    That's not my way. But I'm not going to tell you you're having fun wrong. If you're happy with how you spend your money and don't catch a stripper heel across the face for your troubles, then c'est la vie.
  • Subraman
    •
    5 years ago
    Bav-->"That’s it. Don’t even bother making up an excuse. " Agree with this part, Bav Ish-->"It's not difficult or complex, but I do think it's important to be respectful and somewhat kind. Because you're rejecting a person, and specifically a woman based most likely on her appearance. That's a hair more complex than choosing one salsa over another at the supermarket. And yeah, I get that rejection is part of the job it takes only an extra second or two to be considerate." Very strongly agree with this. Bav-->"They don’t care and are going to leave you talking mid sentence." This part I don't agree with as much, Bav; for me you've over-rotated a bit. You might have been using hyperbole, but if not, I've never had a stripper leave me mid-sentence. I think to the extent there's disagreement here, it's that some PLs -- often those who seek variety and have never known even a single stripper well -- seem to think strippers are coin-operated automatons who have no feelings about anything. The girls are effected by their success, just like you would be; the newer girls get their feelings hurt, the super jaded girls get irritated, etc. It might not be about YOU, it might be hurt feelings that four customer/walking-wallets turned them down in a row. But I think it's always worth saying things with a smile, being respectful, basically treating her like a person. But I'm firm and clear about my intentions, relatively quickly but without rudely waving her off or cutting her off mid-sentence They don’t care and are going to leave you talking mid sentence.
  • AtAboy
    •
    5 years ago
    Ishmael thank you for that suggestion on what to say. Sometimes I go to clubs and I am looking to just chat with a sexy woman. Of course I pay her for her time sitting with me. But sometimes I go and I’m not looking to chat, I just want to look at hot ladies and see who I want to do a dance with, vip. Sometimes I’ve had a long day and don’t want to talk. I just want to chill and drink. When a dancer sits and chats with me, it’s not as easy to say no. She’s not asking if I want a dance so I can’t just say no. Dancer [sits down next to me]:So what brings you here tonight? Me: No Having a little script for those situations helps.
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    5 years ago
    If a dancer walks away while I'm mid-sentence (which very rarely happens), then that's on them. I don't care. It doesn't stop me from making an initial effort to not be a dick.
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    5 years ago
    Some dancers are smart enough to not ask yes/no questions.
  • AtAboy
    •
    5 years ago
    ^ I didn’t consider this. Definitely noted
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    @subra Yeah when word gets around of a customer, it’s for something specific and not for saying “no” specifically. I think it’s known some kinds of men are slow to warm up and may only decide to focus on a specific dancer or two only. Me personally, if I heard something negative about a customer—but he’s in front of me anyways, then it won’t stop me from trying but I will speed up the process because I consider him “higher risk” One example I can think of is the guy who kept pitching all the girls to be in his friend’s music video. Supposedly he knew some high profile rapper 🙄 He ticked off a bunch of girls for chatting their ear off on this but not buying dances. That and spitting while talking lol. Luckily, being warned about this, I faster hustled two dances off him under the guise of “oh idk if I’d be good enough for your friend’s video. Why don’t we get some dances and you tell me if I am” And I knew how I was going to act before sitting with him. Ataboy says —>“Dancer [sits down next to me]:So what brings you here tonight?” That is so open ended and makes it even EASIER to let her down easy. If you wanted to dole out flattery, you could say... “Long stressful day. Just getting a couple of drinks to start relaxing before I’m able to better appreciate pretty girls like you later 😉” I personally don’t like asking too many open ended questions to customers myself for that very reason lol.
  • Muddy
    •
    5 years ago
    Me I just can’t say no. I refuse to tell a fat stripper that she isn’t good enough. What I do is I listen their a whole story and let her know that yes I’m very interested in VIP’s. I ask her about her schedule, if she likes Wendy’s, I admire here hair. We sit and chat for hours. Then I ask for a complete tour of the club she shows me outside, inside the dance area where the “magic” happens and introduces me to the manager. I tell the manager that this girl will be MINE for the next few months. We all laugh HAHAHAHAHAHA. Then me and her go to VIP, it’s go time. While I’m sitting here I let her know I forgot I’m broke and I don’t have any money. This way she was let down on grounds that he just didn’t have the money. She’s can’t be ugly no that can’t be it. Yet again I save the day. Of course it does make it a little awkward when I taking an actual hot dancer to VIP 10 minutes later but it’s a new paperless instant world. I just got paid at midnight so what?
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    Omfg muddy 😭😭😭😂😂😂
  • rickthecoconutcrab
    •
    5 years ago
    You’re right cat man. I guess that cats named herb must be almost as smart as those named rick If you don’t want a dance from a female hairless ape just say “scuttle of you ugly ape. I want to defile a hottie!” Scuttle! Scuttle! Scuttle!
  • rickthecoconutcrab
    •
    5 years ago
    “scuttle off” Do you apes know how hard using an iPad with claws is? You sped need to design better electronics! Crab lives matter! Ape lives don’t matter! Unless they are rick apes. Scuttle! Scuttle! Scuttle!
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    @ Muddy, I tried that and I got bitch slapped. Let me know your secrets. I will pay you for them
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    For myself in strip clubs, I've usually had just one favorite and so I would only give money to her. But in general, if you run off a dancer, you can be making an enemy. In our underground clubs, the girls don't ask, they just do. So it works better just to play along with them. In future travels, and in places like TJ where FS is clearly standard, I will want to pick and approach myself. But if a girl is highly aggressive, I think best to try and err on the side of going along with her. It is not wrong to say no, but when young women are really extending themselves, I think it best to accommodate if at all possible. So if you see one you want, I would say, move immediately. I helps with the esprit de corps. SJG
  • chessmaster
    •
    5 years ago
    Only Simps and manginas care about being "rude" to hoes. They won't hate you any less for not being a dick. In fact being a dick, disrespectful, rude, they might respect you more. Hoes see kindness as weakness and will walk all over you if they can. I'm guilty of this in the past but far less now.
  • Bavarian
    •
    5 years ago
    @Subraman In my experience, if I bother saying something after I said no, she will walk off because she does not care. It’s always the same dancer at Baby Dolls. Also at Baby Dolls, I told a dancer I was waiting on someone else. Her response was “I hope she never comes” Not giving an explanation eliminates that kind of behavior.
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • georgmicrodong
    •
    5 years ago
    I agree with Subra and CMI. A little politeness costs me nothing. It's possible to be firm and polite at the same time. And while I don't often club outside my area very often, I've never had too much trouble getting girls to notice me after declining one or more of them.
  • Subraman
    •
    5 years ago
    @bavarian: I have to admit that I've never seen either of those behaviors. I have run into my share of obnoxious, broken, fucked up strippers who were trying to ruin a customer's day. But at the clubs and shifts I go to, they're few and far between (slow shifts, low hustle), luckily. I might shift my attitude if I ran into that often
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    Are most of the dancers at Baby Dolls being mean about being told “no” though? Plenty of customers are comfortable with automatic shut down type of rejections there. I personally spend the extra 20 seconds to take the rejection graciously, and introduce myself briefly anyways before walking away. Just in case he has a friend that shows up or something. That is an example of a club where, even if you *are* being a jerk, plenty of dancers aren’t going to hear about it. That being said, a “come back later” probably won’t work too well either. She might—but the chances are against you when there’s too many other customers in the room.
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    Also don’t forget that a lot of the dancers at Baby Dolls are Cuban. Especially on night shift.
  • Bavarian
    •
    5 years ago
    There are some cheap guys who know they are not getting a dance but still want to feel up any dancer that approaches them 😂
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    ^ If there aren’t customers trying to pull that kind of shit, then I might forget that I’m in Texas.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    I would say that the more forward the girl is being, the better to engage with her. I don't mean buying dances, that is a chump's game. Rather, engaging with her. SJG
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    Remember when Nicole1994 was going to dance and not he touched? Lmfao
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Any feel ups should be with the customarily adequate amount of money, and also by consent. Again, the more forward the girl is being, the more important I think it is to engage with her. "Wanna dance" is not being very forward. For those who want to denigrate the women who dance in strip clubs, then best not to even go to such clubs. SJG
  • DenimChicken
    •
    5 years ago
    It's very simple to just let them know "I'm good for now" and if you think you will be interested later, just let them know that YOU will find them later. As long as you aren't a rude jerk - if you approach her later when you feel ready/like it; much more often than not they will be receptive and interested in doing dances. You are the one with money. I've only had a few times where I told girls no thanks where they stood around asking why I'm not getting dances. Baby Dolls Dallas years ago, actually. I simply said hey I'm not interested to them but they ran their mouths. Even then at most it was amusing and pathetic to watch them. Yawn.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    ^^^^ Best if you can identify the one you want an approach her yourself. But if a girl approaches you, there is nothing wrong about that. As far as how to respond, I still say that it depends on how forward she is being. If it is extreme, I think it better to find it in your heart to engage with her. But that does not mean directly buying dances, as that is always a chump's game. It means front room friendliness. SJG
  • Subraman
    •
    5 years ago
    -->"and if you think you will be interested later, just let them know that YOU will find them later." One of my favorite rants on StripperWeb was a girl complaining about customers saying "I'll find you later". The OP stripper is complaining that that gives the customer all the power -- HE will find HER, so he gets to choose. You can watch the thread as the girls are spinning themselves up, getting increasingly outraged that a customer would say "I'll find you later", and making up all kinds of lines to say back to take their power back; "Well, I'll probably be too busy later", etc. It was the most interesting display of low self esteem power dynamics, along with girls competing to be the peacock with the baddest attitude. And THAT is why I still love reading SW!
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Select the one you want, and then approach. But if the girls approaches you, how forward is she being? I think that makes a huge difference in whether or not you really need to engage with her. SJG
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    5 years ago
    Admittedly, I've never been there. But by description Baby Dolls sounds like a shitty club.
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    Ooh goodness...all this talk of Baby Dolls is going to cause the council of Ricks to descend upon this thread 😂😂 Baby Dolls is a massive club with a high volume of both dancers and customers. A lot of customers skew blue collar, but thanks to sheer foot traffic, there are exceptions. Some girls will target those exceptions and get customers to buy a bottle and sell out time blocks to customers. But otherwise, it’s a lapdance factory club for sure. Dayshift 60-100 girls. Nightshift I think is 100-150?
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    Subra said—> “The OP stripper is complaining that that gives the customer all the power -- HE will find HER, so he gets to choose.” Maybe she was complaining because he led her on in some kind of way acting as if he was going to buy but then not? Otherwise, that’s ridiculous. But then again, I do remember reading a post on tumblr once on how a girl said everytime a customer auto rejected her before she could even get a word in, she would sit with him and talk to him just because she wanted to make him feel as awkward and uncomfortable as possible. Which seemed like a very odd way to waste one’s time away from the money but whatever.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    nicespice, so many here talk about Baby Dolls. I can't figure why they like it above other clubs. Unless it is just because with so many dancers, then there really are no rules. SJG
  • wallanon
    •
    5 years ago
    "Maybe I'm in the minority but I do get suckered into "sympathy dances" when the girl is not that great looking but seems friendly and a non-druggie. I know we visit clubs to indulge our fantasies about hooking up with the hottest females in town and that's all fine and dandy, but we're also human beings with empathy towards fellow humans." I'm more likely to move onto a different club if one is nearby than drop sympathy dances these days, but I did get two dances at this horrible dive somewhere between Ottawa and Montreal because the other customers were talking so horribly about the one girl dancing at the bar. She was heavyset and not my type at all, but she was friendly and interesting even though it was obvious when I walked in that she was hating life and hoping I just turned around and walked out instead of saying something rude and dismissive. I make no bones about interacting with 80% of dancers I meet as sex objects, because 80% of them interact with me like a walking wallet. But some I meet and connect with on a different level, and some others I run into that I just feel like being kind to because it's apparent that they need a little something at that moment and I'll have 1000 other chances to make a club visit all about me.
  • wallanon
    •
    5 years ago
    "While I totally understand being a bit more accommodating in a new (to you) club where you don't quite know the norms or any of the girls. But I think this notion that, if you don't start saying no or tipping girls you're not interested in, they're going to fuck up your whole trip, is a hobgoblin that lives just in your mind." Or hoodrats that live in Atlanta. Or Greenville. Or Huntsville. Or Memphis. Or Fayetteville. Or all kinds of other places guys who hang out in fancy San Francisco clubs will probably never see. Bitches get bitter, and that matters when a whole town only has two decent strippers and more than two clubs. lol. "This part I don't agree with as much, Bav; for me you've over-rotated a bit. You might have been using hyperbole, but if not, I've never had a stripper leave me mid-sentence." I think I just covered this up above, but I've also had strippers get straight up pissed for all kinds of reasons and storm off. The last time it happened she texted me about a month a later and asked if I wanted to see her again. I did, but have gone way over my quota for crazy this year so passed on the offer.
  • rickdugan
    •
    5 years ago
    ===> "It's not difficult or complex, but I do think it's important to be respectful and somewhat kind. Because you're rejecting a person, and specifically a woman based most likely on her appearance." And? If she's a sow, then the sooner that it sinks into her head that guys don't find her attractive on stage, the sooner she'll stop double fisting Little Debbie snack cakes and do something about it. Or she'll find a more suitable profession. Either way it benefits all concerned because being a club can't be making her much money anyway. It's not my job to coddle a self-deluded girl who should already know better.
  • twentyfive
    •
    5 years ago
    ^ so I guessing you feel like being an ass is the same as performing a public service SMH
  • rickdugan
    •
    5 years ago
    ^ More than being a pussy is, yes.
  • twentyfive
    •
    5 years ago
    ^ Being nice is far from being a pussy, it’s not within your purview to counsel her on her dietary habits or what employment would best suit her, sorry Rick being a dick isn’t a very good look anyplace not even in a stripclub
  • rickdugan
    •
    5 years ago
    You're reading a lot into it 25. I said I blow her off, not that I give her extensive feedback. I reserve that for the pigs who can't take no the first time.
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    5 years ago
    I don't think being a prick is a great way to teach a life lesson. And it's not up to me to teach life lessons in any case. How people I don't know reach their personal epiphanies is up to them. But it costs me nothing to be respectful by default, in and out of the strip club setting.
  • gSteph
    •
    5 years ago
    >> Saying no is not rude. << Ask any two year old.
  • twentyfive
    •
    5 years ago
    @Rick you did write this paragraph, did you not, so all I’m going by is what you actually stated. >And? If she's a sow, then the sooner that it sinks into her head that guys don't find her attractive on stage, the sooner she'll stop double fisting Little Debbie snack cakes and do something about it. Or she'll find a more suitable profession. Either way it benefits all concerned because being a club can't be making her much money anyway. It's not my job to coddle a self-deluded girl who should already know better.<
  • day_trader
    •
    5 years ago
    A few club visits ago a dancer who I've known for a few years drops by my table. Asks if I want dances, told her I had just arrived and want to hang out front for a bit, have my drink and watch the stage for awhile. She ended up asking a couple more times. Once she saw I wasn't budging, she asked if I would buy her a drink. I refused, she got all pissy and stormed off, lol. I don't think I was rude.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Day_trader, your refusal was not rude. But still, that was not a desirable position to be in, and the outcome was not desirable either. Best if you can identify the girl you want and then approach her yourself. If a girl does approach you, she is not doing anything wrong. But you will have to decide quickly how involved with her you want to be. If possible, an affirmative decision is nice. But even failing that, there might be slicker ways to brush her off. SJG
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    5 years ago
    RickDugan and VH_Kicks. I'm reminded of countless scifi shows where everyone is terrified about matter and antimatter coming into contact...
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    I agree, it is important to be protective of the girls who may not have the most universally appealing of looks. Want all the girls to feel comfortable asserting themselves at all times. SJG
  • georgmicrodong
    •
    5 years ago
    There used to be a significant contingent of Cubans at Blue Diamond. They had an all business attitude, and if you weren't interested in what they were selling, they would move on pretty quick. Since many of them barely spoken English, it could seem brusque, or even rude, but especially sensitive types.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    5 years ago
    When it comes to dealing w/ dancers I'm kinda of the Bavarian-school that less-is-more - IME the more excuses and/or "the easier I try to let her down" the more stripper-quicksand I end up in and making the inevitable (I'm not getting dances from you) last-longer and it be more-uncomfortable - experienced and/or high-hustle strippers are like bloodhounds when it comes to smelling BS/whimpiness/hesitation and will often go in for the kill when they pick up the scent. The OP was plainly posting about just saying no, not being an ahole about-it; yet many on-here immediately started w/ the "oh you have to be nice to her" blah blah blah "you gotta understand what they go thru" blah blah blah which in my PL-opinion screams at me that many PLs *do* feel uncomfortable just saying "no" or "no thanks" and have to come up with all sorts of elongated explanations and "try extra hard to be nice" as if just saying no or no-thanks is somehow "not nice" - man the fuck-up you manginas - reality is they don't give a shit about you "being nice" they just want you to spend on them out of your own volition or "they are gonna help you along" by using all your excuses and "nice talk" against you to make your wallet submit. As far as I'n concerned (w/ the obligatory "with some exceptions" since we have so many studs on TUSCL whose faves find them too irresistible to not wanna talk to them forever for free); as far as I'm concerned dancers "wanna talk" so they can close the sale and get you to spend - me spending extra-time "to be nice" is not really giving them what they want and in fact may be counterproductive vs a "no thanks I'm good" - to me engaging them in convo and then saying no anyway is just a waste of time and effort for both parties (unless for those life-of-the-party types that like to talk anyone up just for the sake of convo/interaction). I just use the short-and-simple "no thanks I'm good" and of course anything said w/ a smile or at least a neutral-face vs an angry or stern/frustrated look is always best whether dealing w/ a stripper or not. I often see-guys snuggle w/ a dancer and embrace etc then say no anyway - to me I feel I'm leading-her-on and doing more harm than just saying no-thanks - depends on my mood I usually "head them off at the pass" and don't allow them to sit on me b/f I tell them "I'm good" - sometimes I won't be as militant "about my PL space (lap)", and sometimes they just sneak onto my lap b/f I can put up the PL-gate but even if they sit on my lap I avoid touching them at all if I am not interested as to not "give them the wrong impression".
  • Cristobal
    •
    5 years ago
    There is nothing rude about saying "no", we say no to so many non-mongering propósitosns on a daily basis. Be polite about it and everything should be OK, though occasionally a dancer may not take no for an answer, be polite and firm.
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    5 years ago
    If I'm going to give to charity, then it's going to be an actual charity. And I do. I treat people with respect by default. But I'm never going to do pity dances. Not my thing. But if that's your thing, have at it. It's not my place to tell you you're having fun wrong.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    5 years ago
    @VH My comment was just a general-comment w.r.t. the OP; it wasn't directed at you. But to your point - earlier-on in my PL-career I often "felt bad" for dancers not making $$$ - reality is that is not something I can fix, nor should I really try to, IMO. 1) I'm not loaded ($$$) to be in a position to be a financial white-knight for dancers not making $$$; I spend enough $$$ as it is on the dancers I *do* like to then be spending extra $$$ on dancers I feel sorry for 2) I am not really fixing their dilemma and may be perhaps enabling a bad situation Not saying one should not do it; just expressing my PL-journey from white-knight to PL-practicality; per my personal view-point. The best I'll do is sometimes get dances from dancers I'm kinda on the fence about - but that is usually dependent on the cost of the dances - if dances are $25+ then I'm def more picky w/ whom I get dances from and will often bypass dancers I may be on the fence-about. Also - there's often a bit of "no good deed shall go unpunished" when one is a white-knight in strip-clubs - i.e. it can result in said-dancer latching on to you every time you come in the club either b/c she incorrectly assumes you do like her or b/c she knows/feels she can get $ from you.
  • Jascoi
    •
    5 years ago
    cristo and the later comments are where I fall.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Saying no is not rude, but it is better to minimize the situations in which you have to do it. Buying dances and paying for sex are always chump games. But getting a girl off script and outside the club can be good! Don't need to feel like you are giving money to charity. Ways to get a girl outside of the normal envelope. And if she is approaching you herself, she would probably be amenable to such. SJG
  • wallanon
    •
    5 years ago
    For those of you who are around big cities, a lot of them have toll roads, right? There's one town I visit every once in a while, and because of the hotels I use it costs me $4 or $5 each way to the clubs I prefer because not taking the toll road costs me an extra hour in drive time. My time is worth a lot more to me than saving $10 on tolls. When I'm in a new club and I'm on the clock, if a chick immediately swoops in to mark me as fresh meat, it's basically a toll road and I'm trying to skip the line. I'm going to mix metaphors and add that I have a lot of ways to check down out of a play and not tip, but don't feel like writing them out now. This whole thing has broken out into yet another yes or no absolute discussion when there's clearly nuance involved. I'm way past being sorry about sharing what works for me, and TUSCL will be a much better place when all the regular contributors can just agree to disagree on something (and the noobs can stop apologizing for having an opinion). But in the meantime I'll just lol and keep right on keeping on. Spending a few bucks here and there for the sake of convenience (or unexpected help finding what I want) is just that.
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    I am adulting. I found out that saying no is part of being an adult.
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • dr_lee
    •
    5 years ago
    I don't care how they take it. I used to cover my bases by saying "not right now" and I don't even do that anymore. I literally say "no" or "no thanks" making it be known without a doubt I don't want a dance. It gets them off my back the rest of the night and any other time I might come back to the club. It's much easier for me to say no now because the dancer quality in many clubs has gone way down.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Buying dances is always a chump's game anyway. But engaging with a girl you like and getting a front room makeout session going and waking up with her the next morning, very different matter. The issue is, how forward is she being? SJG White Girl [view link] The B-52's - "Rock Lobster" (Countdown 1980) [view link] the B-52's - Give Me Back My Man [view link] The B-52's - Roam (Official Music Video) [view link] The B-52's - Rock Lobster (Official Music Video) [view link] The B 52s With the Wild Crowd! Live In Athens, GA 2011 (real good) [view link] [view link] Garbage - Stupid Girl (Live "Album De La Semaine" 2012) ( real good) [view link]
  • bigman226
    •
    5 years ago
    In NJ & Philly, the parade can be relentless but I've simply decided to stand my ground and say no thank you. It's rare but usually it's because the dancer and I have had a bad interaction. I had a couple of faves at POand each of them had a dick-rider that they would bum drinks and tips off of. I got tired and told them no - you would've thought I had cursed her dead parents. One walked off cursing me and the other stood there asking if I was serious. She was given the option of walking away or me getting rude. She opted for #2 and got fired.
  • Cristobal
    •
    5 years ago
    @papi_chulo I remember you wrote an article (or discussion) about not being an asshole or a pussy. It might be time to revisit the subject.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    5 years ago
    ^ Subraman wrote that article - I just reference it from time to time
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    5 years ago
    Too many SCers get taken advantage of by trying to be "nice" and feeling that saying no is somehow being "not nice". Down here in Miami some of the clubs have tip-parades that are out of control - many of the dancers in those clubs will circulate the club ALL NIGHT LONG asking for tips, not just when they get off stage (it's basically a racket) - subsequently on a busy shift you will get approached by 4 to 6 girls in the course of ONE SONG asking you for a tip - some of them will give you a little grind and let you touch them a bit; others just stand beside you and just ask for a tip - if you say no some of them just walk away, others look at you like if you have some type of problem; others will cause you out or give you a dirty-look; others will nag you until you tip them something. If one sits back and observes one will see guy after guy continuously reaching into his pocket b/c apparently they either can't say no or don't know any better - I was at one such club a year+ ago w/ a local TUSCLer who is a young early-20s guy - we met at a Miami tip-parade club and we were talking about the tip-parade - I only tipped the dancers I liked and that I could feel-up some; he tried doing the same-thing but couldn't and would tip every girl that came-up - when I looked at him w/ a look of "what are you doing (after I'd had a talk w/ him about the tip parade)" he just looked at me and said "I couldn't do it (i.e. he couldn't say no although he didn't wanna tip her)". For w/e reason many SCers feel just saying no or no-thanks to a stripper is somehow being "not nice" and subsequently end-up spending $$$ they don't want to spend on dancers they don't want to spend it on.
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • herbtcat
    •
    5 years ago
    WOW!!!!! Is there an award for most replies in a Front Room discussion thread? As Papi mentioned several times. My ONLY point was for those who feel obligated to tip a buck (or 20) just because a stripper asks, it's ok to say no. It's also ok to say yes. I don't really care. But don't worry that she will be mad, disappointed, channel all of her daddy issues to you, swear a vendetta for your death, start taking drugs or drinking (that ship has already sailed), tell your boss/wife/priest/children what a loser you are, or quit the business and become a nun just because you didn't give her a dollar. She'll just go looking elsewhere. Your personal motivations to help, save, anger, love, ignore, fuck or forget her are irrelevant. Just decide what you want to do and if it's not give her tip, then dont' give her a tip. When I see a homeless person on the street, smelling of piss and vomit, I might give them a dollar, but I usually don't. Strippers (usually) smell better and (insert whatever joke you want here), so do whatever teh fuck you want. Just don't be too much of pussy to say no if you want to say no.
  • Subraman
    •
    5 years ago
    herb, I think we all agree that saying no to a random tip request is not being not-nice. But this is tuscl, and we have to deconstruct the very concept of "no", examine it from all angles, and argue about every other possible case :)
  • herbtcat
    •
    5 years ago
    Subraman, No we don't!!! See what I did there? :p
  • Subraman
    •
    5 years ago
    Well played
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    5 years ago
    Like Nancy Reagan taught us "just say no"
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    I still say that it depends upon how forward the girl is being. They do find strip club dancing to be stress full even under the best of conditions. I think it is important to protect their feelings, and also to try and see beneath the surface. SJG Garbage - Stupid Girl (live Paris) [view link] Only Happy When It Rains [view link] Live On Letterman [view link] I Think I'm Paranoid and Push It [view link] Push It [view link] The World Is Not Enough [view link]
  • TrollWarnBot
    •
    5 years ago
    WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy: san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    5 years ago
    ^^^ Congratulations on finding your login password.
  • herbtcat
    •
    5 years ago
    @TrollWarnBot "I find your lack of faith disturbing..." - D. Vader "Who the bigger fool? The fool, or the fool who follows the fool?" - B. Kenobi NOTICE: You are hereby banned from trolling on my threads by calling out other accounts you claim are trolls. (I'm sure THAT will fix the problem and he will never post again.)
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • Olemanhustle
    •
    5 years ago
    When I was a young Pl, saying no was an issue. But the older I get the more I respect my money and time and the easier it gets to smile and say no thank you. No excuses that way I can change my mind if haven't seen her a$$ yet.
  • Subraman
    •
    5 years ago
    Smile and say no thank you, simple enough. I am a huge believer in "no excuses", and emphasized that in the article I wrote years ago. You don't owe her an excuse, they are unnecessary, and IME in 99% of cases, people make excuses because they're scared, even if just a little, about how she'll react.
  • Cristobal
    •
    5 years ago
    @subraman Great article. No fear, just say no, no excuses.
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • IceyLoco
    •
    5 years ago
    Exactly it's your money and you have a right to decline a service it's not a big deal
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Icey, we have talked about this issue quite a bit. Of course you have a right to decline. And it is best if you select the girl and approach her yourself. If a girl does approach you, that is still good. But you will have to decide. Best not to waste their time. My position though is that while you have the right to decline, it is better if you don't have to. Best not to spread negative vibes. And then I would also consider just how forward the girl is being. I do think it is important to try and protect their feelings. And if a girl is being forward enough, I think it best if one can find some way to accommodate. SJG
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • MackTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    No
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Saying no is not rude, but I still say that it is better if you can limit the number of situations in which you have to say it. SJG
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