First time arranging OTC. How much?

I think in most places that would definitely be high although it’s possible that is the going rate in some places. I suspect the most common range is going to be 400-600 but there are variables that could go that high. If you do pay the 1000 though it will be hard to negotiate down the next time.

Way too much.

That's what inexperienced SCers that ask instead of saying what'll you pay, get quoted - you're being hustled and seemingly letting her have complete control of the situation which normally does not bode well for the PL - seems you set this up w/o a plan nor knowing/having researched how to go about it

There are plenty of factors to determine what is a fair OTC price:

Not including hotel (and possibly good food and drinks), $1000 sounds too high (do you really want to spend the whole night with her?).

I consider what a VIP FS session cost (her tip amount) and use that as a starting point.

In the COI, I've offered B Teams girls $200-250 and my offers are accepted about half the time.

Do you want the whole night? Do you need the whole night?

I don't think you should go with an expensive whole nighter when it seems you're nit experienced with OTC.

You don't wanna overpay particularly the first time with a girl you wanna repeat with - usually she'll expect the same amount going forward.

You come across as if she's doing you a favor by doing OTC with you and thus you have to pay her an obscene amount - dancers do OTC bc they want $$$ - OTC is not some holy-grail one has to break the bank to get.

IME/IMO:

1. Dancers that ask for obscene amounts are often not worth it

2. If it takes an obscene amount to get her to do OTC, that could mean she really doesn't wanna do it and if she really doesn't wanna do it then it may likely not be worth it - paying big $$$ does not mean a much better time - I think she just thinks she has a chump on the line ready to be reeled in

It would help if you stated which club you're talking about so one can gauge what caliber of dancer you're dealing with and thus be able to gauge what you should pay

$1000 is fine, if you're getting a 9.5, and you're in Vegas. Otherwise, 2x-3x too high. Stop asking the girls for a quote and tell them what you're willing to pay; if you're not a great negotiator (and who is, when their dick is hard?), best to start off from your own lower number. In addition, suggest you don't negotiate for "all night" or even mention time. The nice thing about strippers is that the ones who have a non-escort-like model price OTC by the event, not by the hour, at least if you don't start off asking for all night. Get your price, and she stays however long she stays, which may well end up overnight; if you do a little (or a lot of) drinking, chances are she'll spend more time, but don't let her get drunk

$526

I think her rent might be due soon, thus the outrageous $1000 quote.

Per your reviews you're in Phoenix - if you were in NYC or LA and she was model-quality, maybe - hardly anyone that does OTC on TUSCL would pay more than $500 (and it doesn't mean you should spend even $500 if it's just an hour or two thing).

Again - this looks more like an inexperienced SCer being hustled - dancers hustling inexperienced custies is basic to strip-clubbing - it's up to the custy to know how to not to get hustled, you can't expect the dancer not to do it - asking her her price usually signals "I don't know shit, please feel free to rip me off".

One should treat OTC like buying a car - not smart to not have any idea about the cost of the car and depend on the "friendly" salesman to give you a good/fair deal.

Per your reviews you're in Phoenix - if you were in NYC or LA and she was model-quality, maybe - hardly anyone that does OTC on TUSCL would pay more than $500 (and it doesn't mean you should spend even $500 if it's just an hour or two thing).

Again - this looks more like an inexperienced SCer being hustled - dancers hustling inexperienced custies is basic to strip-clubbing - it's up to the custy to know how to not to get hustled, you can't expect the dancer not to do it - asking her her price usually signals "I don't know shit, please feel free to rip me off".

One should treat OTC like buying a car - not smart to not have any idea about the cost of the car and depend on the "friendly" salesman to give you a good/fair deal.

You shouldn't do OTC to just do OTC - you should do OTC to do it right - this is not the only dancer in the world, or all of Phoenix, that would do OTC - meaning you don't have to accept/jump-at a bad deal - like any business transaction, one has to be willing to walk away and look for a better opportunity.

I suggest reading some of the other discussions on OTC.

Go to the TUSCL homepage (TUSCL.net) and type "OTC" in the search-box at the bottom of the page and educate yo self unless you play yo self.

Ok, thanks guys. She is a 7 at the Hiliter club in Phoenix. I have only attempted OTC one time with a girl and she came back with some $300 for lunch shit. I am used to escort mongering for $200+ a pop. I am open to spending a bit more to live the “stripper I bagged” fantasy but not 3X the multiple...

Or I could just wait two weeks and go to TJ...

High Lighter doesn't strike me as a big $$$ club given its reputation was attained via its $10 floor-dances - AFAIK HL is a midtier club not some supa-expensive supa-upscale club - for a midtier club, paying what the avg escort price would be is a good rule-of-thumb (or pay her more or less what the avg dancer at a club charges for extras in the club).

The takeaway here is to have an idea of what P4P is in the area/market and use that as a rule-of-thumb - and control the process since you are the one paying (you make an educated fair offer and it's up to her to take it or leave it and if she leaves it, you try w/ someone else).

Wait and go to tj 1000 is 10 hk arribas or 20 to 30 sg

$1000 for a 7 is pretty high, even for the whole night.

I am going to repeat what Papi said: Do you really need the whole night?

I'm sure that there are plenty of girls who will accept $250 - 300 for an hour or so.

For those of us who have been making good money for a long time, I think it's easy for us to lose sight of just how much $300 is. For someone' whose next best option is a $12 per hour job were she not a stripper, it represents 25 hours or work at that vanilla job - more if you factor in tax withholdings. Now some strippers make enough money ITC that they are not tempted by OTC money, but for others, especially in slower clubs and/or with lots of bills to pay, it's a nice additional infusion of cash that isn't easy to come by.

Honestly, if you’re building rapport with Hiliter girls, you should be able to take one out for free or for dinner and drinks.

I’ve never been asked to pay, they tell me that “I won’t charge you” to let you know they just want a good time.

FYI: this happens when your young enough to date them, charming, and got some game and time to commit to playing with them. Now that I have a family I don’t even bother. So if you’re an old dude or if you can’t put in the time to get it for free, ignore what I just wrote.

A. Do *not* go for an all-nighter your first time out with a girl (even I won’t do that with girls with whom I’ve had sex ITC). No matter how much you think you want or need it. You have no idea what she’s going to be like for that long a period of time. You might hate her an hour in. Give it a few times to get a feel for whether or not this is someone with whom you’re going to want to spend an extended time, including potentially actually sleeping and breakfasting with.

B. As Subraman has said, arranging for a specific amount of time will likely yield a less than satisfactory experience. I personally often ask for “however long we’re having fun.” I like to chat and relax both before and after, this approach gets me what I’m looking for more often than not.

-->" I have only attempted OTC one time with a girl and she came back with some $300 for lunch shit. I am used to escort mongering for $200+ a pop"

It sounds like you're in "the definition of insanity is to do the same thing and expect a different outcome" territory. In the case above, you'd asked her to quote a price? To re-re-re-repeat: name your price, don't negotiate for time (just however long it takes for dinner/drinks/sex, the girls may surprise you with how long they stay). One of the main advantages of strippers vs escorts is that you get a far hotter girl, for a far far lower rate (when measured as total price for the amount of time). The fact that you're getting the opposite means your process is broken.

The HL girls that do OTC are generally available from $300-$400. Anything higher is above local market, and will screw up their expectations from their regulars!

Sub, I think his real problems were that he was (1) negotiating for a whole night; and (2) too uncertain of the local market to approach this with any confidence.

I've negotiated too many of these to count over the years and it has never been my experience that a girl who thinks her efforts are worth $y will only accept a lower $x if I get the jump on her. In fact, IMO this belief also stems from negotiating insecurity not too dissimilar to that displayed by sexmeplease. As long as you handle it with a little tact, an otherwise willing girl will not turn down a good payday just because a guy doesn't bite on a pie-in-the sky number. If a girl turns down a reasonable counter-offer, then the odds are good that she was never going to do it at that price in the first place.

Sub, I think his real problems were that he was (1) negotiating for a whole night; and (2) too uncertain of the local market to approach this with any confidence.

I've negotiated too many of these to count over the years and it has never been my experience that a girl who thinks her efforts are worth $y will only accept a lower $x if I get the jump on her. In fact, IMO this belief also stems from negotiating insecurity not too dissimilar to that displayed by sexmeplease. As long as you handle it with a little tact, an otherwise willing girl will not turn down a good payday just because a guy doesn't bite on a pie-in-the sky number. If a girl turns down a reasonable counter-offer, then the odds are good that she was never going to do it at that price in the first place.

Rick, I don't doubt that a savvy negotiator can get quoted $1000, and then cooly negotiate her down to $300. But I know my limitations -- I can't bring myself to counter and stick with $300 with a girl who just quoted me $1k; further, I'm just happier being in action rather than reaction mode. I think that for someone who has no idea what he's doing -- like OP -- he'll be more like me and is better off never hearing a $1k quote

Hey guys, thanks for chiming In. A little context, the mention of OTC and the $1K was unsolicited and given to me by the lady. I countered with a $300 number and she said “no way.” I have heard guys chatting about lower number expectations here. That’s why I was curious about the amount.

For reference, I negotiate $$$,$$$ deals daily and I am not shy about money. I never actually expected the “all night” time limit to actually be “all night.” Just wanted to measure what you guys were seeing.

Meat and AZDD, since you guys are local to me, is the $300-$400 number for a younger prettier girl or older lady offering extras only in the back type. I agree that the 7 I am talking with is hotter than the average pump and dump on listcrawler...

SMP posted: "A little context, the mention of OTC and the $1K was unsolicited and given to me by the lady. I countered with a $300 number and she said “no way.” I have heard guys chatting about lower number expectations here. That’s why I was curious about the amount."

Then she was never going to do it for $300 no matter what you said or how you pitched it. $1,000 is high pretty much anywhere in the country. For some reason she had you pegged for a mark.

Copy that. I get what your saying. If Meat and AZDD can weigh in on proper expectations of a hiliter girl I would appreciate it!

IMO $300 is an acceptable offer in that market - her "no way" answer I take as a dancer not serious about OTC and just looking for a big score.

I'd stay put - not uncommon for dancers to come around to a fair offer if they are interested in OTC. but it seems like she was just looking to $core by hustling you.

IMO she was trying to play you which is all too common in the strip club game - these girls are in the club week in week out for months and years and know the game way better than the avg custy and why many custies often get taken to the cleaners (there is always a green mark walking thru the door to be fleeced, it's part of the strip club fabric.)

1000 upfront would be risky. As soon as she gets the money she will have an excuse to leave after 20 minutes and will promise to be right back but disappear. She likely has ADD or a drug habit and wont focus on you for more than an hour especially if it is friday night

I get me some $20 lot lizzards

I've not done OTC with strippers but have done plenty p4p. The goal is to have a reliable regular and paying past a certain amount misses the point. The girl will need to see you as a regular or potential regular and thus not get greedy. $250-300 per meetup and time is never talked about. Sometimes you take them out for a nice meal or something fun, depends on how likely or OK you are with running into people either of you know. If time never comes up, the ones who are OK with a reasonable amount will never clock watch - or at least you will never catch them clock watching. 2 or 3 hours is typical and if you click with her it makes it a great experience that can be maintained for quite a long time. Strippers may want more for OTC since $250-300 is what they would make with just 1-2 customers a night. Also have never paid up front, always end of meet. I have had a few p4p ask for up front and they were all one-and-done boring mechanical and a waste of time.

Yeah, never paying upfront goes without saying

The times I have done OTC, the price is typically slightly more than her cut of a half hour VIP, and her nightly payout to the club. Where I am, that's around $200 to $300, and often no time limit, but typically one to two hours. With my most recent regular, we would typically meet up three hours before her shift, and she would stay until about 30 minutes before her shift started. As she said the first time we did OTC, "You get to have a great time without the bouncers interfering, and I even after tipout, anything else I make in the club is all mine." She also used the time to try new dance moves and outfits, as she said, "get an honest opinion on how good it is."

To the OP, I have fairly limited OTC experience in the Phoenix market, but those experiences were with incredibly hot dancers for $300-$500, but never higher. The best escorts in town are usually in the same range for an hour of fun, although I’m starting to see an upward pricing trend in that market. There are a lot of factors that influence whether a dancer will consider your OTC offer. A big question is whether she is truly independent, or worried about a BF or husband finding out. I always try to reassure them that discretion is more important to me than it is to them. They have to feel safe about being alone with you, which is one reason I think older, married customers can sometimes get more OTC action, because they are seen as safe choices, who aren’t afraid to pay for their fun.

Pricing can be all over the map, at least the initial offer. I had a dayshift dancer quote me $1200 for OTC, and then got defensive when I suggested that her price was way above market. “You get what you pay for” was her indignant response. I mentioned $500 to another incredibly hot night shift dancer, and she laughed and said 500 would be for dinner! But later she said “we’ll talk”, which I thought sounded like her softening her position. For some reason I have not pursued that dancer further for OTC, although I still get dances from her. She hasn’t brought it up, so I don’t think she was serious anyway. I have affirmative OTC conversations from maybe a half dozen Phoenix dancers, that due to my scheduling difficulties, I have not had a chance to seal the deal, or learn that they weren’t serious to begin with.

I also recognize that the hottest girls probably get OTC offers all the time, especially at a club like Bourbon Street, where the night shift parking lot is usually filled with Ferraris and Bentleys. I know rich guys can be notoriously cheap, but I’m sure there are some that wouldn’t think twice about laying out a grand to fuck one of the Bourbon hotties. That reality changes the market dynamic for the rest of us mere financial mortals, unless you can be seen as a regular that will bring repeat business. Good luck out there, happy hunting and negotiating!

-->" I had a dayshift dancer quote me $1200 for OTC, and then got defensive when I suggested that her price was way above market. “You get what you pay for” was her indignant response."

Just as a side note, when I do get quoted high prices first, I've found that the girls who ask high prices respond VERY poorly to "your price is way above market" type arguments. These girls know they're above market, believe they deserve it, and think you're a peasant for not agreeing. A basic response where my demeanor is basically that I could see why she could get that kind of price, hell I could imagine her getting double, but unfortunately my budget is $X, is the approach I've been most successful with. Stroke her ego, give her some reason to think she's being charitable and doing you a solid just because you're not a dick. Again, that could be a limitation of my own negotiating skill, maybe some guys can argue her down with market analysis or negging, but the few times I tried that, it ended so poorly that I don't do it that way.

Trying to use logic with a stripper in strip club bizarro world is often a futile endeavor - I find it it better to play dumb (as long as one knows what they are doing)

A real escort is $250-$400/hr/2 pops. I call it a date, and "help you out", I'll never negotiate specific time. If they want a schedule, its Sun-Thu all night, I'm not giving them enough to skip Fri/Sat, its never 1 hour, only few hours until we drink and "fool around" or "we get bored". I take the girl out, so more cover/alcohol/other bills. Swinger clubs are my fav, but I'm just there to get her drunk on a fancy couch & fuck her on it 2 hours later with a waitress and bartender that look other way. No swapping. Nobody hits on us.

Rare cases its an afternoon date at her house until she has to goto the strip club but those tend turn into needles, foil, and fucking sessions cuz she cant do foil at a night or strip club. If its a notel she will take off the smoke detector like a robo by pushing up a chair and freebase. Atleast she isn't a clock watcher & we get to chit chat while she uses.