Is it so wrong...

You are going to get both sides of the aisle here. What I am going to say to you is what you probably don't want to hear. If you believe it is wrong - which I think from the tone of your post you do - then it is wrong. Likewise, if your wife would think it is wrong, then it is wrong also. A marriage is supposed to be a partnership. That means that you trust each other enough to talk about things like this.

Have you tried talking to your wife about how hard it is for you to be on the road and away from her so much? If not, I suggest you do that. For all you know, she may be finding it as difficult as you. I assume by "being on the road" you mean you are not home for nights upon end and maybe just home weekends. Have you considered that you and your wife can be intimate even though you are not in the same physical place? When my husband was in Amsterdam for work we had phone sex. (And, when I got to Amsterdam ten days later we walked through the red light district together since that was something we discussed beforehand as being off limits until it was both of us.)

Whether you consider yourself the "cheating type" or not (IS there one type? I don't think so.) does not really matter as you clearly ARE considering having sex outside of your marriage or you would not have posted here. And, yes, most women would consider a BJ, even a partial one, as cheating.

You don't list your age. Nor can we really know what "all the time" means to you. Since you clearly can focus well enough to have and keep a job, that is not "all the time" in my book. I personally think about something sexy every 15-20 minutes. Does not mean that I want to have sex that often. Maybe you just need to learn to allow yourself to be sexual and think or feel sexy things without being ashamed or believing it always has to have an ending.

Anyway, mrs m00tpoint's sofa is closed for the day. Turn a copy of your insurance card in at the desk and sit down and talk to your wife.

I expected that feed back...the truth is my wife is not a sex machine. She can go weeks without even giving me a sign...and we have a good marriage, but I am very unfullied at home, its not all her fault, i knew who she was when I married her. I just love sex so much more then she does.

Phone sex doesn't work for her, nor does anything else...she says she is sorry but its not in her to be so sexy...and I think she tries but doesn't think its a big deal.

I just want to find a way to be satisfied sexually so i don't make a stupid mistake. Any ideas?

Its not about my wife. I want to find a way to satisfy myself so I don't always have to relay on my wife when I'm not home...I'm alone alot i mean...any ideas, guys help me out, I'm a pretty vivid and erotic guy so I can take some crude ideas.

I disagree that you have a good marriage if you can go weeks and weeks without sex. Apparently you do too or you would not be seeking it elsewhere. Sounds to me like you opted for a business relationship. If that is the case, then you still should talk to her. Perhaps she will tell you to do what you want as long as it is on the down-low. Perhaps not. At least it would be a place to start.

Also, have you ever thought about the fact that maybe she doesn't feel sexy because you have never really helped her to feel that way? If you "like sex so much more than she does" as her husband it is part of your responsibility to help her find out why and change it.

Why should she give you a "sign?" I had a total hysterectomy three years ago. I did not feel sexy for a whole year. Do you think I did not find ways to be intimate with my husband even when I did not feel like sex? Honestly, it was damn hard work that ended in tears a lot of nights but my husband NEVER went without. And he never let me feel like less of a woman for the times I felt nothing. It took a whole year for us working at it until my body completely healed and things were back to more even keel. And it was worth every step of the way and I can tell you it strengthened my marriage and the respect we had for each other.

Good grief! No one feels sexy all the time. If nothing works for her, I say you are part of the problem too. It is a BOTH of you issue not a YOUR issue. Looking for sex outside of your marriage is the easy way out.

What a place to ask this question. Yeah, you'll get a really unbiased answer here. Why not just PM Rick_TheIdiot_Dugan directly?

Here's the crude idea you asked for: see a marriage counselor!

I'll bet your wife has some reasons for her sex-lite ways that have little to do with you. Some of this might come out in therapy, and an honest and communicative relationship could emerge. I would guess that neither you or your wife are capable of being intimate (intimacy is not sex), and that plays out for you as being perpetually horned-up, and for her as being perpetually clammed-up. It's a very frustrating condition for both of you.

Btw, I'd be interested in getting the rest of that BJ if you don't plan on getting it.

A partial bj is cheating. Regardless, you do need to find ways to get some of your needs satisfied. You should have a talk with your wife. She should know how you're feeling. All else fails, get on anti depressants. They'll kill your sex drive and you won't even miss it. Jk :) bad joke maybe

Actually, mmdv26, you hit on a very valid point. Intimacy is not sex. And, yes, the wife probably does have some pre-existing issues but it also could simply be that the sex they do have is not the type she prefers/needs and she does not have enough experience to know it. Regardless, her current marriage seems to have done nothing to foster a desire to have more sex or better sex. I suspect neither of you really knows how the other feels.

One other thought, I personally use sex sometimes when I am nerved up or need to relax. Perhaps part of the frequent urge is a self-medication to control anxiety, calm down or simply because you don't like being alone.

Anyway, I think it is apparent from your last posts that what you are really seeking isn't honesty and advice but someone to tell you that your wanting to cheat is justified. I won't do that. But probably not for the reason you think. I won't do that because sex without the emotional connection is just sex - physical release. You can do that on your own without cheating. You have a shot at having the whole wonderful thing - sex and the intimacy - with your wife. Why would anyone settle for second best when they have a chance at the full monty? I would never advise that. Second when first place is possible is just not an option for me.

I really don't think you are being honest with yourself about what you want and why you want it.

well let me be the devils advocate.

monogamy inst for everyone and honestly most men and quite a few women cheat, now that doenst mean you dont love your wife it also doesnt mean your marriage is dooooooooommmmmmmed or bad even if you have vastly different needs than she does you need to sort them out if that means getting a bj from a stripper then cool go for it. It was like i was telling my SO (probably legally my common law wife by now) I dont have to love you to have sex with you and I dont have sex with you simply because I love you. Now I will also point out she refuses to masturbate and sometimes lets her frustration build up much like you. She is also bisexual so I have come to learn after 7 years. Now on that note I told her if mrs right comes along dont fucking hesitate pull the trigger and try it out. She also told me that if the right lady comes by I too can go for it just 3 rules number one use protection number 2 dont bring them back to the secret lair and lastly keep it to myself and to a minimum. Her boundary she gave me seems to be fair. For us that seeeeems to be working I told her also if she finds mrs right to take pictures. (fingers crossed mrs right is bi so I can play too). For us it is ok as long as you come back home at night. and yes I have taken her up on the second GF option. It is a lot of work I will say but luckily the SO started a new job and has not so much time for me. And as a side note have you thought about smoking pot to self-medicate maybe if you dont want to be alone learn to play darts or pool make new friends. Or just go bang some sluts. Hell bring it up with the mrs she might be really ok with that.

Let me recommend an article from the NY Times Magazine called Married with Infidelities: nytimes.com.

In addition to the article, is see two key points-- people have different biological needs for food, liquid, sleep, heat and cold. We respect those different biological needs and they seldom form the basis for a marriage break up as long as one person's interest in that biological need does not infringe on the other person's rights or well being. Why should sex be any different? Sometimes the difference in sexual needs are there at the start of a relationship; sometimes they emerge with biological changes over time, such as health changes or menopause. Maybe we should place higher value on emotional commitment and a respectful relationship between two people than on sexual exclusivity??

Also-- don't forget that humans are the product of 20 million years (give or take a few million years) of evolution. Evolution selects for those who enjoy sex-- by that I mean they repeat the act often enough to contribute their genes to the next generation. Evolution does not select for sex only in the context of a marriage or a sexually exclusive relationship. Society, not evolution, programs our value for fidelity and largely to increase the likelihood that children will be raised in a stable home environment. Sexual exclusivity (fidelity) does not insure that the relationship between two people is loving and respectful-- you can think of plenty of examples of these relationships-- people who hate each other but remain sexually exclusive. That doesn't seem to be a healthy environment for raising children or for anything else. How about the flip side--- is it possible to love another person and treat them kindly and respectfully but still to want and maybe have sex outside of that relationship. Well, it happens all the time (the incidence of marital infidelities is quite high, for both men and women). Why should the sexual infidelity undermine a good relationship any more than acting on a biological urge to have more food, more liquid, more sleep than your partner needs or wants? Note that I've focused on sex as a biological act-- if however the sex outside of the relationship has emotional overtones-- you fall in love with your extramarital partner-- then it raises different issues.

So my advice to hulk518 is that it may be OK to act on those biological urges as long as your actions don't undermine a respectful and caring relationship with your SO. If you're racked with guilt, just remind yourself that its not your "fault" after all you (and your sexual needs) are the product of 20 million years of evolutionary programming.

I will second elctroman i will also point out in many cultures getting some extracurricular isnt a big deal. And realize why prostitution is legal in sooooo many places. If you are having issues I will say that paying or trading for sex makes it a business transaction and puts a clear emotional line and sets boundaries and expectations. It gets squiffy only after you no longer are paying or trading, true story.

You need to communicate with your wife! And don't feel bad, I think most married guys feel this way to a point. I know that my wife has gradually cooled off sexually over the years and I've come close to "pulling the trigger" on extramarital activities but haven't quite made it there yet. Tell her what you need and find out what she needs...maybe the two of you can work something out.

Just get some porn and jack off or is that cheating too?

I'll put a different spin on things. Because of my profession and the things I see, if I were to marry, infidelity would be grounds for divorce. I don't consider infidelity to be a safe zone nor is it safe in general. I believe this whole " monogamy isn't for everyone" and "it doesn't mean you don't love your wife" shit only works if she is kept abreast of what is going on and you have a mutual agreement. I don't believe, though, that any man it woman needs to deal with it based on this whole "nature" crap. People that feel the need to cheat without their partner knowing are lacking somewhere. Humans want what they can't have...but wait...they can have it. They can have their cake and eat it too. Why? because they want to. This is what is wrong with people and the family system these days. People need to learn self control. Just because you want something doesn't make it good or right.

First of all, electronman, evolution simply means "a change over time." From a purely scientific standpoint, there are animals that practice sexual exclusivity and animals that do not. For those who believe the evolution theory of human life, apes fall into both groups. In circumstances where they can carry on the line by producing offspring, studies have shown they remain faithful. Where the environment indicates they cannot reproduce, or in circumstances where the male needs to offer protection to more than one female, they are usually not. Sound familiar?

I submit the same is true in human marriages. Where it truly is a GOOD marriage - the parties feel safe, secure and value each other, they seek physical closeness with each other and work together to ensure that nothing erodes that.

"people have different biological needs for food, liquid, sleep, heat and cold. We respect those different biological needs and they seldom form the basis for a marriage break up as long as one person's interest in that biological need does not infringe on the other person's rights or well being. Why should sex be any different?"

How does he know at this point what will undermine his marriage? He won't talk to his wife about it. So, from her perspective, it is not obviously a problem for him. Until he gets over his reluctance to talk about it, he should not engage is such acts. Period.

Talking generally about sex is not the same as saying, "I love you. I value our marriage and that is why I want to talk to you about this. I am feeling very aroused a lot of the time. I don't want to cheat but I really feel like I need more sex. What can we do about that?"

And, smokeshopjoe, NO "most men" do NOT cheat. In fact, numerous studies have shown that both men and women consistently over-estimate the number of married peope cheating. The mot recent CNBC pole done (accurate to 97%) says, "The reality is it's not as rampant as we think, with 28 percent of married men and 18 percent of married women admitting to having a sexual liaison". The guestimates of the survey participants came in significantly higher at 58% of men believing other men cheated and 38% of women believing their counterparts cheated. That clearly is a minority not MOST.

Bottom line: those who personally cheat want to believe others do so because it helps assuage their guilt and make them feel it is acceptable.

I stand by my response. You don't know if it is "cheating" or not until you sit down and have an honest and respectful conversation with your wife.

mrs m00tpoint

Oh, and for the record, I believe my husband would actually be much harder line than I am on this. He would say the lap dances are cheating if your wife does not know you are getting them.

AMEN Stiletto!

HULK, I was in a similar situation as you. My wife and I were married for over 7 years and she was just never into sex. I went through the whole rationalizing bit (sex isn't everything, we have a good marriage otherwise, I'm selfish, etc.) until last year I finally had enough. We ended up going to a marriage counselor who shockingly told me "it's okay to want regular sex from your wife...you deserve a COMPLETE relationship." After realizing that simple but profound statement, I was done. We're in the process of divorcing now and it was the best decision I made. I'm now free to pursue my "activities" with no guilt or shame. :)

Here's my VIEW! I'm not married & not in a relationship.

IF you want to screw around & have Sex when you want & with any person you want, then DON'T get MARRIED & DON'T get involved in a serious relationship. I believe it is WRONG to betray the trust of a spouse or partner in a serious relationship. If you're married or in a serious relationship & feel the NEED to FUCK around - END the relationship!

Sometimes people marry and overlook the sexual connection, but in the end, the problem will always service. I realize these responses weren't really what you were looking for but you need to look at your relationship.

And, on the cheating issue, would it be cheating if you wife gave a partial bj to the UPS guy?

Hulk: "Is it so wrong to want sex or some form of sex all the time."

Yes, it's wrong and sinful. You must banish these evil desires. The best thing to do it to turn all of your disposal cash over to me so you will no longer be able to gain admission to the devil's playground.

Shit Stiletto, I hope that's not your sales pitch at work.

Hulk - The acid test is to ask yourself, "Would my wife care if she knew?" If yes, then it's cheating (which is why you hide it, as most do in our culture). This goes for LDs, partial BJs (did she only lick half your member?), flirtation, and intimate internet liaisons. There is no resolution without either:

A: Telling her and making your indiscretions part of your marriage (a la m00tpoint)

or

B: Divorcing her so you can indulge without guilt.

Short of these, you have only one choice - Cheat at whatever level you can tolerate/justify (e.g., SCs and LDs) and simply live with the schism. It's not ideal, but does represent a half-way measure that may scratch your itch sufficiently within your status quo.

It really comes down to your decision as to whether you want to live authentically and congruently. Not easy, by any means, and most of us don't succeed. We choose a mid-way point that neither destroys nor satisfies.

Be that as it may, the higher ground is to either honor your marriage to the fullest (and take m00tpoint's suggestions about counseling, etc.) or live a hedonist's dream by sucking and fucking your way through all the girls you can afford.

I've done both, and neither will likely leave you not wanting the other. It's an unfortunate by-product of how most of us are wired (the ol' "cake and eat it too" conundrum). So, if you're among the fortunate few who can truly make a decision to embrace one path or the other with no regrets, then that's a wonderful thing. If you're not, then choose the path you think will give you the greater joy and just realize, you will never shake the occasional or not-so-occasional misgivings about losing the other.

Fleshlight between the times it takes your wife to thaw out?

Martial advice on a stripclub forum, hmm.

I thought he was just asking for the best place to get extras between Utica and Albany?

@Dougster: Talking out of your ass again I see. Yup, I have a hot wife and still get some on the side. Stop being so jealous already. Oh, and btw, I noticed that you weighed in on the cost of dancer extras in your area as if you'd actually know - LMAO. Why don't you get your little bitch ass out there and get us something that might actually add the the knowledge base here.

@Hulk - just do what you are going to do and stop being so girly about it. Plenty of men have mistresses or other side pieces - just be careful enough not to get caught. Just remember the 4 rules:

1. DON'T SHIT WHERE YOU EAT

Never fuck around with someone who knows your wife. Women can never keep their mouths shut and always need to confide in somebody. They also get stupid on the backend when you are pulling the plug.

1. DON'T DIP YOUR PEN IN COMPANY INK

Stay away from girls that you work with - too damned many complications can arise, especially when the ride is over.

1. NOT IN MY BACK YARD

Don't fuck around close to home - too many ways that it can backfire.

1. NOTHING RECORDED OR RETAINED

Cash is king. Too many fucknuts get caught when a strange charge hits the credit card statement or bank account. Also, be sure to wipe evidence from your cell phone religiously and never store anything, including contact info. And for fuck sake stay off of emails.

Anyway, good luck!

It isn't the sex that's the bad part, it's the broken promise.

Good discussion here, but I'm still unclear on one thing: What the hell is a "partial" bj? To me, that's your very first rationalization. Either you allowed some woman who is not your wife to touch/fondle/suck your dick, or you didn't. Like someone else said, would a "partial" [whatever] given by your wife to some other guy be ok?

Don't forget #5. DON'T POST YOUR EXPLOITS ON AN INTERNET DISCUSSION BOARD.

lol

Good point, rickdugan. If you're going to do it, do it right.

Steve229 - He's actually asking for both: 1) Whether it's wrong, and 2) Where can he get his "fix."

If by "fix," he means where can he get some booty (cheating at whatever level he chooses) while on the road between Utica and Albany, then I'm not so sure. I'm not a NY guy, but from limited experience in the area, the SC pickins are slim. So, I'd suggest he hit up an Asian Massage Parlor (AMP). Nice thing about AMPs is that he can simply request exactly what he wants and pay accordingly. Want a partial BJ, no problem. HJ while she recites bible verses, no problem. The options are endless for assuaging one's guilt...

For what it's worth,I have been married over 40 years. My wife is an extraordinary woman (Proof? - She put up with me all that time). During that time, I have learned that there are very few rules that apply to every marriage, all the time. But here are at least 3 that I think do make the list.

1. In situations like this always tell your partner what you are feeling, ask what she thinks could solve the problem (A little unfair cause if she could she would). Do it in a loving way and don't talk about blame (won't solve the problem). Agree to limits that both you and she can live with and stick by those limits!!
2. Once identified, don't talk about it. BE discreet. Use free time on the road as opposed to Boy's Night Out.

Most women who find themselves facing the problem you desscribe, feel terrible that they are not satisfying their husbands. One reason often is the kids - it's pretty well documented that when women are really tired and are feeling overwhelmed by responsibility they just don't feel like a roll in the hay. If you have young kids right now, you might try getting a babysitter, going to a great restaurant and then take her to a nice Hotel/Motel and still be home by Midnight(Having cleared all this with her before). Probably cost you less than a Vegas VIP.

1. Don't bring home any exotic germs; don't do something that could result in babies; don't talk about it with her !!!!!!! And most of all stick by your agreement.

That could be cheating to some people and not to others. The key is honesty, and if you are being honest with her then cheating is trumped.

joesparty - partial bj is something like I smoked but I didn't inhale

I agree with Stelleto.

"He's actually asking for both: 1) Whether it's wrong, and 2) Where can he get his "fix.""

But doesn't asking #2 kinda negate #1?

Horny is a natural instinct

If you have to ask...

@Rick: Like I said Rick you and your conspiracy theories are all talk.

You want to put your money where your mouth is? Start flagging my reviews if they are "fake" like you claim. I know you won't, but seriously, the time has come for you to put up or shut up on this.

Consider this me officially throwing down the gauntlet!

Porn & Cheetos should quell those cravings. Done. Unless you prefer Doritos. Then you're cheating on the Cheetos. This can get very complicated.

"most men" do NOT cheat. In fact, numerous studies have shown that both men and women consistently over-estimate the number of married peope cheating. The mot recent CNBC pole done (accurate to 97%) says, "The reality is it's not as rampant as we think, with 28 percent of married men and 18 percent of married women admitting to having a sexual liaison". The guestimates of the survey participants came in significantly higher at 58% of men believing other men cheated and 38% of women believing their counterparts cheated. That clearly is a minority not MOST.

THIS IS ONLY TRUE IN AMERICA also who conducted the survey and even then when surveys of moral issues are done many people lie about themselves. Phone rings operator: would you like to take a survey man: sure SO: who is it Man: survey Operator: have you ever cheated Man (looking at SO): no never ...

people dont admit to themselves who and what they are you seriously think they will tell a stranger? Hell i told a survey taker once that I was a member of the American Green Nazi party and was going to write in hitler or david duke for president.

There is a RUSSIAN expression that go as such "Only a lucky man has a wife who only sleeps with him" I could post it in the original russian but I seriously doubt anyone cares (there is absolutely no reverse statement)

There are several eastern european cultures that roll dice at the wedding when the man rolls the dice it is said that is how long he waits to take a mistress and when the woman rolls that is the number of lovers she will take on in her life.

If Guilt is the only thing holding you back fucking get over it make a choice.

"You want to put your money where your mouth is? Start flagging my reviews if they are "fake" like you claim. I know you won't, but seriously, the time has come for you to put up or shut up on this.

Consider this me officially throwing down the gauntlet!"

SHIT JUST GOT REAL! :o

@Dougster: I don't flag reviews for clubs that I have not visited, but in any event the onus is on you, not me. I'm not the one posting stupid comments about what "all dancers" do, nor am I the one posting drive by club reviews, including one of your most recent gems about a legal brothel that you visited but did not patronize.

You know, I don't go into certain forums that you might use, such as the "Challenges of Living in My Mom's Basement" support site, and take issue with what you and other contributors on that site post, nor do I go on there and claim any great knowledge on the subject matter in general. Why? Because I do not live in my mom's basement so, of course, my input would be of limited value. Just something to think about. ;)

lopaw, so what if someone wanted Cheetos AND Doritos? :)

Rick is all talk, stax. He ain't gonna do shit, except come up with a lame excuse of why not.

@stax: lol, see I told you. A million excuses. All talk no action. Too funny!

Ooooph. Pow. Ka-bam. This thread is like getting my ass kicked in a comic book. Like the OP, I am a horned-up married guy. I can understand what he's saying. And I can understand what the posters are all saying. But it doesn't make it easier to take. And it looks pretty damn bleak for us guys that have a wife who has no interest in sex and takes delight in knowing that her husband can't get anything. I'm going out to the closed garage and start the engine now. . .

"Consider this me officially throwing down the gauntlet!"

Is the Renaissance Fair back in town? lol

Gosh, with all the name calling and bitchy comments, one would think this is a ladies' forum.

LL - I have yet to meet a woman who "takes delight in knowing her husband can't get anything." This is mrs m00tpoint and for over 5 years I worked in a call center with over 300 women. I heard A LOT about their sex lives (believe me, women talk more about it than men do at work) and I never ever heard a single woman crowing about "having no interest in sex." Instead, what I routinely heard were, "Why isn't my husband interested in being with me any more?", a general lack of willingness of husband to perform oral, complaints about a husband who did not talk all evening and then expected sex that night, "Why does my husband jerk off in the shower when we haven't had sex for three weeks?" and a total lack of romance in their relationship. On the other hand, I also heard women saying (with a wink) "I am glad I got a close parking space because I am sore from last night", that they bought a special outfit at Lover's Lane for a weekend away, they wished they had more time off work so they could take their husband somewhere special because he works so hard and "My husband gives great back rubs. They always make me relax and I can enjoy the sex better."

Does it occur to anyone that if we sat down and talked with our SO about what we value, need and want that the desire to seek attentions elsewhere would be significantly reduced and that questions such as this would be a lot less commonplace?

mrs m00tpoint

mrs. mOOt, I didn't come here to pick a fight and I don't think that was your intention, either. But when I'm standing knee-deep in gasoline and you throw a match at me, I might take offense. Maybe the guy is jerking off in the shower BECAUSE he hasn't had sex in three weeks or three months or whatever. My wife's libido is next to nothing, she shifted all of her attention years ago into being a mother only, sleeps with the child, and has tried her damnedest to scrub every bit of sexuality from me. I fought it for the longest time and I have just recently said to hell with it. After getting my ass chewed all the time for being a sex-crazed jerk (I'm not) and being worthless, I am not in much of a mood to light candles and give sensual backrubs. Since I am not supposed to have any kind of sexual outlet of any kind, I have tried to just turn the dial down to nothing. When you repress your biological urges continuously, after a while I suppose they just fade away. But I guess that's my fault for not seducing her all over again, huh? Listen, I am glad you reignited something in the mOOt household, but things are damned bleak here. And I'm not going to be the fall guy. She wanted me to tone it down to match her own non-existent sex drive and I guess she has now succeeded.

LL -

First of all, if you thought my joking comment about the name calling was directed at you, I apologize. We may not always agree on things but usually you do not revert to childish name-calling.

Second, I agree that there is no one-size-fits-all answer for every couple. There will always be exceptions. There are two sides to every story and the truth usually lies someewhere in the middle of the two perceptions. We certainly have found that once things begin going badly each person is hurt, angry or simply does not recognize that the other person is probably feeling the same sort of things. Our defence mechanisms kick in and we start building walls to protect ourselves. It is human nature.

Maybe your situation is an exception, LL. I don't presume to know. What I do know is that I would certainly not stay in a marriage as you describe. If that truly is an accurate description (and I am not questioning your interpretation of it) then the woman you are married to is a selfish, childish and manipulative woman. Presumably the two of you cared about each other when you married. Perhaps she is a woman who, for whatever reason, sees sex as only for procreation. Maybe her mother was a crappy mother and she feels she must be a better one than she received. Again, I don't know. But I would sure as hell being telling her that we were going to get some counseling to find out. And if she refused to go, I would tell her the marriage was over.

That will probably shock my husband since he knows how much I abhore divorce. However, marriage is a partnership and one who refuses to allow intimacy (and yes, I understand sex is not the only way to be intimate but I simply cannot see a woman being intimate on any level with a man she treats as such) is not in a marriage at all in my book. It is a business arrangment. Maybe you could find a housekeeper who was interested in fringe benefits. Seems like that is more than you are getting now.

mrs m00tpoint

Housekeeper w/benefits, isn't that an Ahnold thing?

Tx - yes, yes it is. :-)

Tx - yes, yes it is. :-)

mrs. mOOt, thanks for your level-headed comments. As you can probably guess, I'm just a bit on edge, for perfectly understandable reasons. You are correct, that there are two sides to the story, and you have heard mine but not my wife's. I'm sure she could bend your ear. But given the context I gave you, I will stand by my original statement that she "takes delight in knowing her husband can't get anything." I suppose when one is a tea-totaler, it is kind of funny to watch an alcoholic suffer through trying to find a drink anyway he can. And fail.

Since I am a tenant in my own house (not literally, but figuratively), the FWB angle does have some appeal. Right now, about the only thing I can manage is an infrequent day trip to a SC. But with little money, that's about out. Thus my irritability. The next dumb-ass telemarketer will probably get their ear blistered, however. Thanks for bearing with me.

Why are you still in the marriage if its so horrible?

I wanted to be a full-time dad, not a guy that swoops in on a weekend and tries to buy my son's affection with tickets to the Lakers. I thought I could put up with the crap, but maybe I was fooling myself. If she chases me off, she chases off the best dad my son could have.

I agree with Steve. I thought he was just asking about a good place to get a cheap blow job. Sheesh, I didn't think it was gonna turn into an episode of Dr. Phil.

But what do I know. I'm single. So I'll keep silent but I do agree with Alucard.

If he had only asked for an referral I don't think my wife would have even bothered to respond. But, when one asks "Is it so wrong" as a title, he is welcoming discussion. I guess he posted here because he thought he would get pretty close to unanimous support to go for it and got a surprise.

m00tpoint

Yep, I'm a bit surprised that some people here actually have a realistic appraisal of things. I'm with motorhead and Alucard. Rick's attitude is simply appalling.

I'm so ashamed. ;)

@rick:

You partly feel ashamed which is why you don't tell your wife. But it's more that you feel entitled. A cornerstone of your narcissism.

"Narcissists [ed: Rick_TheIdiot_Dugan?] cheat on their spouses, commit adultery and have extramarital affairs and liaisons for a variety of reasons which reflect disparate psychodynamic processes...

...Narcissists feel superior and important and so entitled to be above the law and to engage in behaviors that are frowned upon and considered socially unacceptable in others. They reject and vehemently resent all limitations and conditions placed upon them by their partners. They act on their impulses [ed: for BBFS with strippers?] and desires unencumbered by social conventions and strictures.

...Marriage, monogamy, and child-bearing and rearing are common activities that characterize the average person. The narcissist feels robbed of his uniqueness by these pursuits and coerced into the relationship and into roles - such as a husband and a father - that reduce him to the lowest of common denominators. This narcissistic injury leads him to rebel and reassert his superiority and specialness by maintaining extramarital affairs.

...Narcissists are control freaks. Having a relationship implies a give-and-take and a train of compromises which the narcissist acutely interprets to mean a loss of control over his life. To reassert control, the narcissist initiates other relationships in which he dictates the terms of engagement... "

rick - Both Doritos & Cheetos is just asking for trouble =D

In all history woman was attracted to men going theyr way. Relationship capabilities never was sexy.

looneylarry hit it on the head. I'm also in a near-sexless marriage (months at a time). I've talked, massaged, seduced, been open about my needs, told her about my clubbing and invited her along, been to counselling, got a new job to be able to spend more time at home, offered to make it just a "business" marriage if that's what she wants. Fuck it. At this point I'm still here just because of the kids. I haven't cheated other than a one-time trip to an AMP. We're good friends and work well together as parents - we're just not fuck buddies anymore and I don't think I'm interested anymore either.

I know for sure that I'd be gone if I didn't think it would screw up my kids and also me since I'd miss being around them so much.

Damn - this is a heavy thread for tuscl.

I'm fare from being expert but I doubt things allways have to get better from talking about it. Mentioned situations are very clear and there just isn't a completely right solution to find. While some say talk about it other large institutions think different Don't ask - Don't tell

@muchfun- what the hell are you trying to say? I haven't understood but maybe one of your posts...ever. I'd really like to not only read but understand your posts. Unfortunately there is some sort of grammar barrier.

Hm is this a joke? If you can't get the Intro the Message is so Short and easy.

Like I said...