Comments by Elitis

I'm fine with some good 2-way contact. Fine with extras but rarely actively look for them. Not fine with just looking or talking. Also not fine with bartenders and servers being better looking than the dancers while also not being available for dances themselves.

The "no phones in VIP" is true. You'll leave it with one of the staff members when you go to a room.

^^ "The biggest protection strippers need is to not be discriminated against when they want to switch to a straight job." Not wanting your company that presumably has nothing to do with adult products/activities/services to be associated with someone who is or has been involved with those things (and can fairly easily be found out about) isn't such a crazy concept.

I've never actually done or even attempted to do the $40 dance so *maybe* there is a dancer who would allow touching or would be willing to at least show the goods off even if she doesn't actually take anything off. I actually forgot to mention this since I almost never sit at the stage anywhere, so thanks for bringing it up LapDanceJunkie, but there is no touching allowed on stage either (strangely enough).

@Nixur68 lol you just reminded me of one of my first strip club visits many years ago that I still remember. It was somewhere in Southern California (maybe LA) when I around 18 or 19. I was sitting around for a while looking for a dancer I liked, having rejected one or two that came by. Another approached and I turned down dances with her as well. She says to me "ok, but if you don't start spending money, I'll have the bouncers kick you out". I'm still a bit picky on who I get dances with to this day, but looking back it would have been pretty simple to toss a few singles during some stage sets and that interaction probably would have never happened. But to your point, definitely true some clubs don't want you just hanging out.

I'm basically never interested in idle chit chat or stage sets. I'm not there to socialize or look without touching. I'm happy as long as I get a good grind (or at least decent effort) and the dancer at least pretends there isn't somewhere else she'd rather be.

@PuddyTat to be fair the name recognition she (Mia K) got from her time in porn more than made up for her lack of negotiation skills. She didn't even get screwed over, she got *standard* rates and presumably terms. I think one of the big sites also refuted her claims of only getting $12,000 total in a blog post some time ago.

Half-reluctantly got a dancer's number about a week ago and Googling it was the first thing I did. Supposedly registered through AT&T so, at the very least, it's a real number/phone. I'm also in the "can't believe most of them would have two phones" camp. Using Google Voice or another fake number app? Sure. I believe that. Having two actual phones almost seems like it would be too much work for some of them. I guess for the ones doing extras ITC/OTC, it would make more sense.

So, her "soulmate" just so happened to be: 1. Close enough in age to her 2. Wealthy and/or willing to spend serious money on her frequently 3. Willing to look past her being in a relationship already 4. Willing to marry her quickly 5. Willing to impregnate her quickly 6. Willing to retire her What exactly is *he* getting out of any of this? She sounds like a leech

shadowcat in a weird way that almost humanizes them to me

"They then give you a post it note to hand to the dancer with how many songs and the dancers name." I've been to some shitty run-down places before, but that is wild. A post it note 🤣

WiseToo, I couldn't tell you what the wristband is actually for. They cut it off when you leave. Maybe just signifying you paid? I think it was around $12 for a Crown Apple & Sprite mixed drink before tip.

^ It's a man-hating girl

Gigi is pretty chill. No extras but Divine if she still works there is a fun time.

Never *just* to get into the room but yes, I've spent ridiculous amounts several times. Upwards of $400 at Club 390 in Chicago (several times alone), couple times at Lust in West Virginia for shower shows and bathtub "dates", and I think roughly $800 or so total my very first time at Tootsies in Miami. Part of it is drinking, Club 390 is really only ever with a favorite of mine (no extras but no stripper bs with her and she has no problems actually dancing right up until the end of our time to the point where she starts sweating heavily. She also never asks for a tip), and Tootsies wasn't planned.

I think your issue was just one of timing. Early Tuesday evening nearing Christmas I can't imagine would be good. Though, I've never been here on a weekday or before 8/9PM so I could certainly be wrong there.

^ re: "I think that explains the reaction you're getting in the stripper posts. They are not specifically endorsing the unclear level of scamming you were targeted with. I think the typical thing is, it's the PL who brings up dating or OTC." They may or may not be specifically endorsing my situation. Unless they actually add to the discussion or ask for clarification, that remains unclear. But, all in all, fair point. In their shoes, I suppose it's easy to assume I'm just another customer trying to screw someone over. On the other hand, it would be just as simple to ask and find out: I did not bring the OTC topic up with this dancer at all. She did. Trying to get your money back because a dance wasn't as high mileage as you wanted it to be is one thing. Trying to get your money back because a service you, rightly or wrongly, smartly or foolishly, paid for ahead of time was never provided is another thing. Obviously, I have my stance on both my specific situation and the larger topic at hand, and I expect dancers to side with dancers in general. This is fine. I only ask that they add to the discussion.

^ yes, I paid ahead of time for a service I didn't and was never going to receive. So, new question to add to the discussion. For all the dancers who think I'm in the wrong (I disagree, of course, but you're allowed to have your opinion), have you ever alluded to or outright told customers extras were available if they paid you beforehand and then not gone through with it? If so, why? Do you think that was a fair hustle? Did you give them their money back? Whether you think I'm in the right or wrong, just add to the discussion please.

^ ugh, actually good point, I didn't think about that. Apologies. I'm unsure if there's a way to use a name other than your real one on cashapp, so I have no way of knowing whether that is or isn't her's. Though, in latin culture it's common to have two "first" names so that could be the case or a middle name.

@ww well, I had a *absolute* cut-off point, which was when I did stop. @ilbbaicnl I see the point you're making, and its a fair one. Not at all what happened, just to be clear though. Also, to address the other point, I didn't name them because I didn't remember their names. Rarely do I keep a dancer's name in mind. Ayla Veronica is, presumably, her real name and cashapp. No idea what her stage name was. @Dolfan I went Friday, and yes they close at 7AM. I got there around 1AM if I remember correctly. So, yes, I stayed a very long time. @Call.Me.Ishamel fair, but I'm also not trying to complain or generate sympathy. Of course, I'm not *happy* I lost out on some money for nothing, but as I mentioned previously, I thought the wider topic could make for an interesting discussion. @erg I have to admit this made me laugh a bit.

Well, the breakdown occurred after I returned from the bathroom. They simply disappeared after that. I stayed around for another hour or so to see if they would pop up, as well as looked for them, but nope. This was right up until closing as well so if they had intended to come back to my hotel with me, it would have been the right time imo for an "afterparty". And of course, everyone will have differing opinions on the matter. It's those differing opinions that I think make for a good discussion.

@Dolfan fair point. At the end of the day, no, it doesn't *really* matter what we call it. I thought it might make for an interesting discussion. What's a hustle? What's an outright scam? Etc etc. I added that blurb from my review and the comment more as an example but intended for the thread to be more general and not specifically about my encounter. I didn't go too in depth in that review as I thought it was already getting pretty long. But to address it a bit further she was not just discussing "after-work plans". She specifically mentioned getting a cab/uber together for us to have an "afterparty" and asked how many friends she should bring with us. Throughout the night, she would bring up this "afterparty" repeatedly and ask to be sent more (increasing each time) money to "pay off the bouncers" or anything else "so we could go". Confirming whatever amount was sent each time but playing dumb/not addressing me bringing up the previous amount already sent. As far as the "blocking me from the bathrom" bit goes, we were in line waiting on an available room for more dances at the time, where they were probably going to ask me to send more money. I'm happy to answer any lingering questions around that situation but again, I wanted the discussion to be more around "what do we consider a scam and what do we consider an honest hustle" more so than my specific situation. The money's more than likely gone and I'm OK with that. Life goes on.

Guys I'm not debating whether or not it was smart to send money before any "services". I knew from the start it wasn't likely to end well and I'd probably just be out the money. Thankfully, I make enough that it isn't a *huge* deal. Lesson learned. (And update for anyone curious: no, I haven't gotten that money back. Oh well). The discussion is whether or not we all consider this interaction to be a (fair) hustle as the commentor seemed to think. I think trying to upsell you on VIP or more dances are fair hustles. Suggesting extras ITC or OTC with no intention of following through is just a simple scam/rob.

Agreed with @RonJax2 on the "why not" question. It doesn't happen often but having to explain why I don't want dances with certain dancers tends to annoy me. If I've decided I'm not interested in a dancer, there usually isn't anything she can say that will persuade me so having to explain myself is a waste of both of our time.

@honeysoaked Congratulations on outing yourself as a scammer. Hinting at being willing to participate in certain activities outside the club if you compensate her for her time, and then not following through with it, is the definition of a rob. There is no "hustle" there.

Most, if not all, of the popular south Florida (Miami-area) clubs I went to allow smoking indoors. I'm more surprised by how many people still smoke in this day and age though. Being from the midwest originally, it was not a common occurrence. California, I also did not really notice it. Seems to be an east-coast and (likely) southern thing. I took it up while enlisted, but stopped once I got out. Can't stand my clothes smoking like cigarettes now.

@RonJax2 randomly re-stumbled upon this thread and when I said I felt like OF has had an impact on strip clubs, I meant in terms of the attractiveness of the dancers. If your choices are post the same instagram pictures you already do on OF from the safety of your home and flirt with guys from your computer for double or even triple the amount you normally make or go to the club several times a week dealing with some creepy or unattractive guys who may take things too far and are intoxicated, which would you choose? Of course, there is overlap. Of course, very few OF girls make those crazy amounts, but it's that potential that makes it attractive. "Be your own boss. Make your own schedule. Charge whatever you want. No tip outs. No getting touched. No drunk customers. Make millions!" Sounds pretty good whether it's all true or not.

@EastCoaster re: "FWIW, it sounds like Elitis did not include DD in his recent rounds, which may prove my point." I did not visit Diamond Dolls. I don't know what it was but there was something in my brain saying, "I'm not going there." Quite possibly a review or two I had read a while ago and just mentally wrote it off. @rattdog yeah, I definitely should have approached. Usually, in my experience, with the amount of eye contact we held during her set, the dancer would have come to me afterwards though. I was also feeling lazy given this was the second club of the night I had went to and was still going to more after this one. I also wouldn't write off Miami entirely. I rate pretty harsh (face only), so most guys can safely add one or two points to any rating I give. As for the waitresses/staff, don't get the wrong idea. It wasn't that I found their faces alone much more attractive than the dancers. They were certainly some, of course. It was generally that I found them to have above-average attractive faces (meaning at least a 6 to me) *and* decent or even nice bodies (large T&A, small waists, thick thighs, nice legs, etc etc). It was the combination I found highly appealing. Plenty of dancers had one or the other. Miami is also great for finding extras, so if that's your thing, its another reason not to write it off. @Dolfan interesting. Did not notice any work being done while I was there. I'll have to make another trip once that's complete to reassess it.

@twentyfive fair enough. I did notice the upstairs (assuming VIP) section. And I guess when I say small I mean compared to other places. But yeah, it could have just been the layout making it seem smaller than it was. @RonJax2 re: "Characterizing the attractiveness of women". Which is why I always mention I rank based on face only. Its easy, imo, to call every woman with a big butt/tits and a nice smile a 10. And while attractiveness definitely has a bit of subjectivity to it, the majority of men will be within a standard deviation of each other when ranking women. Scarlett Johansson may not be every man's 10, but most of us will agree she is attractive even if she isn't our exact type. As far as BT goes, it's not that I was unimpressed *because* the talent was on lockdown. It's that out of all the women I saw there (and several could have been doing dances or upstairs to be fair), there were *only* a handful I found attractive and some of those were staff I couldn't get dances with. I would have gotten annoyed (as I did on my second trip to Cheetah Hollandale) had I gotten swarmed no matter how attractive the dancers were. I like to get approached as much as the next guy, but not swarmed and not immediately when I arrive. Finally, to answer your question, I don't think I've spent nearly enough time in any of these clubs to pick a favorite. But if I honestly had to, I would probably pick E11even. I'm still young and do well for myself, so the party vibe and cost (other than tables) isn't a turn off for me. I'm also not super into extras, so a decent grind and two-way contact with a pretty face and decent body on occasion isn't the end of the world. A second? Toss up between Tootsies for sheer size, numbers, and the fact that I've been a couple times now and Booby Trap. Why BT? Honestly, I have no clue. It just seems better for my tastes than the other clubs.

Booby Trap Pompano looked bigger from the outside. I was surprised how small it really was on the inside.

@Array no idea. I've only been to Miami (and this club) twice now and both times have been on weekends. Miami is the type of city you can always find a party no matter what day of the week so I wouldn't be too surprised if it's still pretty good on weekdays. Especially since E11even consistently brings in well-known performers/celebrities (rappers, dj's, singers, acrobatics, etc). I'd expect mostly the same vibe since as I mentioned, this is a night club for partying that just so happens to also have strippers. Not a strip club. @RonJax2 it's a cool and fun spot for partying. Go in with that expectation and you'll be fine. Drinks are reasonably priced (other than Red Bull from what I remember), music was nice (mostly hip hop/rap, but some early 2000's music like Mr. Brightside as well) and the acrobatics performances were cool to see. The strippers are pretty and something can probably be set up for OTC with some of them but yeah, you're not getting a ton of value ITC. @lurkingdog $1000 table was the *low-end*. Much more likely to be at least double. This is a popular spot for celebrities to visit, so tables are priced accordingly.

Techman, "stage dances" I noticed some girls would go nude but no spreading or anything of the sort. Lap dances were top less. So I'd assume the girls have some amount of say in if and what comes off.

@BuckMcNutter yeah, like I said I knew it was high. The Colombian offered the same for $200. @Tonybo probably? Plenty of light-skinned latinas you could mistake for "white". If you want American white, you might find a few. Miami and south florida overall is going to be mainly cuban.

I think you'll be a bit disappointed if (like me) you prefer "no obvious surgery".

The back area is indeed a patio for customers and dancers alike to smoke and talk. I doubt your dancer's intentions going further back involved anything extra, there's cameras in each "room". And as far as I have seen each room on that side is the same set up. The rooms across next to the bathrooms are slightly different (in a worse way) however.

"The only mildly annoying part was that she kept telling me about her FS offering, which made the dance felt like a sales pitch." Pretty sure the general consensus from those that either live there or visit frequently is that the dances *are* in fact sales pitches for VIP. Much less work for her to bounce up and down on you for 5 minutes in exchange for $500+ than it is to actually dance and twerk and grind for 15 minutes or more.

It still exists. tuscl.net/search It isn't linked to on the navigation bar anymore for whatever reason.

For $1500, look her dead in the eyes and ask directly. If she wants to talk serious money, she better be willing to give a serious answer.

It *is* possible at Club 390, surprisingly enough. One of the girls there I'm friendly with has more or less confirmed it to me on occasion as I usually take her to VIP (she unfortunately is not one that does it) and she almost always mentions a certain room smells like sex and/or people leave certain bodily-fluids around. So, if you ask around, you may be able to find one who provides.

You should have went with Ronnie. She's cool with touching anywhere but the cat. Very soft skin all over too.

In most clubs I've been to, I think that is commonly the trade off. Pretty face usually means no T&A. T&A usually means less attractive. Surgically enhanced are obviously exceptions. I don't mind thin, but at least have *something* for me to grab onto.

Interesting review. Never been able to use a card here for anything other than drinks and never had any issues touching the girls during any lap dance, shower show or bath date and I've definitely done them all.

Having been born there and having spent roughly half of my childhood there, I really do hate to see (more of) this happening there. Although, on the other hand, the good areas (i.e north. Lincoln Park area, loop, etc) are still pretty good.

I think those laws have to do with maintaining a safe environment. Drunk + thinking with the "little head" can lead to really messed up situations. Not quite sure what the deal is with making an exception as long as the dancers aren't *completely* naked, but I sort of, kind of get it.

I tip, although begrudgingly. I don't pay attention to other people tipping, but occasionally some waitresses at a restaurant I frequent will mention when someone doesn't tip them. It's happened a handful of times. I'm more against the expectation of people tipping than tipping itself. Tipping is, and always will be, optional. It sucks that the service industry relies on them, but it doesn't change the fact.

They're open pretty late on saturdays so most people don't show up until around 11pm usually. And assuming nothing has changed (which I doubt it has) since my last visit, dancers have no say over cost of dances. Its set by the club. Based on memory, dances are about $30 each. VIP being $400 for 30 minutes and $600 for an hour. So, if you return I'd be wary of that dancer and any others with their own rates. As for the lack of effort, with only 6 working, I'm not surprised. There isn't much hustle factor here usually.

Just dancing, not worth it. Never tried two or more dancers in an extras club so maybe. I will say in either case, make sure you know at least one of them well enough. Speaking from experience, it's pretty awkward and annoying when they start fighting over dumb things in front of you and/or hate each other. Even more annoying when one of them has your number and proceeds to blow up your phone later that night trying to convince you not to see the other dancer again because of x, y, and z reason.

sushiman: "Anyone ever have 2 strippers in a VIP area?" Yes, it's not worth it unless maybe they're both open for extras. For normal lap dances, don't do it. One of them is almost guaranteed to nearly just be standing/sitting there most of the time or air dancing at best.

More or less what Muddy said. Be someone I could see myself bullshitting with outside the club had I not met you there. Low hustle, non-pushy, and be real. Not a fan of fake moaning or pretending you're super into me. One of my favorites in Chicago actually told me I wasn't "bad-looking". Something as simple as that made me like her a little bit more beyond what she looked like. As for dances, ehh, personally there isn't much you can do for me. I like having tits in my face and a nice ass grinding on my you-know-what as much as the next guy, but if I know I'm not going to be hooking up with you, there's only so much I can enjoy.

As someone born in Chicago (and no longer lives there), this is sad. I have not been keeping up with really anything regarding the city, so when I saw the thread title and that Lightfoot was out I was a bit happy. Then, I saw you mention her replacement being even more far-left. I don't think Chicago will get to the point of Detroit, given its position as the third-largest city in the country but maybe that's a bit too optimistic. I guess we will see what the future has in store.

Paper Moon was very meh when I went last year, but I've only ever been the one time so, you might be right ATACdawg

How to fix this step by step (for future reference) 0.I stay at the club around 30 min (day time and not a single girl comes up to me...weird for this club). Response: So, you sat around and didn't approach any of the girls yourself? That makes it appear that you're there for another purpose other than to get dances and have a good time. How it looks: your OTC girl cancels on you. You then show up at the club a week later on a night she happens to be working. You don't get any dances from anyone. She probably had been watching you for a bit and thought you were there for her. 1. I get up to leave and head to exit/bathroom area. I notice her looking at me and goes back to the back. Response: She notices you and immediately dips out once you notice the staring. This is called "avoiding confrontation". It should have been your first sign that something was wrong. 2. I use bathroom before leaving. Response: This one is fine. 3. I get out tip bartender. Then head out. Response: So, *after* noticing her staring at you and fleeing back into the dressing room, you disappear for a few minutes to go to the restroom. That's fine. Your mistake was not immediately leaving after. How it probably looked (to her): you came there looking for her, didn't see her so were about to leave. Noticed her at the last second and decided to stay and wait. Tip before you leave next time. Why go to the restroom only to return to the main area *just* to then walk back out the same way? (assuming the bathroom and exit are the same way) 4. She comes out changed, goes to bouncer and points as I walk out. Response: she came out changed and you were *still* there. Not talking to any other dancers. Not getting any dances. Of course, *we* (now) know you went to the restroom and came back in to tip the bartender, but *she* didn't know that. Again, tip before you leave next time. 5. I get to my car and she and bouncer walk out to her ride. Staring at me. Response: At this point, it should be clear she thought you were waiting for her inside the club and/or would be waiting for her outside. Bouncers walking the girls out to their cars happens often enough, though.

She used to escort in the past, but had a bad experience that made her swear it off for good (or so the story goes). I wouldn't be surprised if her fucking "fans" is true though. Probably charges you for sex, then there's a camera going so if you go too far, there's evidence, and to top it all off she gets to sell the video later. It would be a win-win situation for her.

Came to here to say exactly what Subraman mentioned. It, ironically, isn't the sex that's selling. Or at least not entirely. It's the interaction with women that is. I think most of the people here are older so most of you (men) grew up interacting with other people and going up and talking to women in real life. For the under 30's, online interaction has either been a significant portion of their interactions or it's been the majority. A lot easier (mentally) for a 22 year old today to pay gorgeous women online $5 or $10 to not only see her naked but also get to talk to her about everything things and feel like he has a girlfriend that cares about him. Treating the symptoms pays better than fixing the root cause and all that. Also, shailynn, subscriber count can be hidden. It's not on every girl's page. In fact, I'd argue the girls making serious amounts of money (i.e hundreds of thousands or more) on OF have their subscriber counts hidden. You can however see total number of likes and the likes on each post, which when combined with the monthly fee, can give you a ballpark estimate of how much they make. All that said, in reality and just like in the real world, very few people are making significant amounts of money. If there's a million "creators" on OF, there's maybe under 1000 or so making millions, and probably under 20,000 making $100,000 or more.

Also, unless something has changed since the last time I went, there is no "negotiating" on dance prices. The club sets prices here, not the dancers.

"The private, half hour room, was totally private, behind a door and then blocked off by a curtain; it was fairly spacious. Was on a couch you could easily lie down on and there was a small table. No one could see in that space." Interesting. You're the first I've heard of alluding to what I think you're alluding to happening. I will say, though, keep in mind that room with the curtains and couch isn't always the "VIP" room. You will get one of the rooms with the dark glass door near the regular dance area from time to time.

'Ample enough space but there is a camera directly above you so I'd be wary of any talk of more expensive dances "being more fun".' Also, not my thing so YMMV

DJ, I find it odd you think everyone in a strip club is there for lap dances (and extras) because that's what YOU go for. While I haven't been to this particular place, I've been to a few places throughout the country (and Japan) and I can tell you a lot of guys go mainly to have a good time. That means sitting around drinking and talking to a pretty girl (dancer) sitting on their lap. Maybe getting a dance or two here and there. And those girls are definitely being compensated for their time. If the girl is younger or newer, she very well might be less interested in actually making money and more into drinking for free and enjoying herself, but those are more rare. Additionally, as a younger guy, I get the whole "assumed to be broke" thing. It's going to happen. Deal with it. But don't complain about it if you're not going to try to prove them wrong. Go tip the ones you like on stage and tell her to come find you after her set. Maybe she will. Maybe she won't. Deal with it.

Maybe. Couldn't tell you. No one had a problem with me doing it though.

@StripClubXpert No. I guess I should clarify that point a bit. The dancer(s) of your choice shower, fully nude, making a show of it however they deem fit. There is soap for them to use if they so choose. You sit in a chair directly in front of the shower. Touch as you wish. You get a lap dance if you're ok getting your clothes wet as well. The bathtub "date", I did not participate in this time. But from what they said, the dancer(s) of your choice get naked. You strip down into your underwear. You sit in a bathtub together. What can happen beyond that is unknown to me, but I wouldn't expect too much given the atmosphere of the club.

"She realized I was standing at attention and told me about the vip rooms being 400 for 30 minutes and all inclusive." I'd be careful about expectations there. This is my go to club whenever I'm in the area and was my go to when I lived in the area as well. I've never heard of any extras being done in VIP. Drugs, yes, but not extras. Not to say that they don't occur, but I've never heard of it happening. Also, there's actually two VIP areas. One of them is in the regular dance area. The only difference is its a dark glass door instead of the beads. Anyone walking by could see what you're doing. The other is the room by the stages. Its dark and pretty private in there, with two couches behind curtains so extras *could* happen there but the couches are fairly close to each other so anyone getting a dance next to you could hear what's going on. There's also staff who may or may not come by every so often to check in on you.

I had a dancer do essentially the same thing a few weeks back. I asked about VIP during a regular dance. She sounded excited about it so we went to talk the manager (prepaid VIP dances). While waiting for the manager, she says something along the lines of "oh I have to give this other guy a dance. I'll be right back". I thought that was super weird, but figured maybe the guy was a regular and would maybe only go for a couple dances at most, so I take a seat and give her a chance. I played around on my phone for a bit and pretended not to notice her passing me with the guy on their way back. Wrote her off after that for being a time waster. My next trip to that club, she comes up to me being friendly asking if I remember her and if I want a dance. I declined. And now that I think about it, it probably would have been smarter if she pretended not to remember me. Not only did she waste my time and potentially lose out on VIP money (for her sake I hope that guy she was with was tipping her more than she would have made off me), but didn't even apologize or seem remorseful. Not that I expect that, but you know.

@heaving, fair enough in that case. I misunderstood you then. @drew, I agree 100%, though I think a part of being seen as someone important in the case of women does include being seen as someone attractive measured in how many likes, followers, and "thirsty" comments and messages you get. It's like a showcase of "look how many guys want me. It's annoying being so hot". I'm an introvert by nature myself, so posting pictures of everything and creating an online persona that only highlights the good parts of my life is definitely not my first instinct but being that I am likely a good 20+ years younger than most of you here, I think doing just that has become important in today's society. I'd argue it *shouldn't* be because it's stupid, but as someone else put it for me, it's essentially brand management.

I have to disagree with @heaving. I don't think it means nothing. Everyone wants to be someone important these days and a good way of doing that is making it seem like your life is a lot better than it is by posting pictures of you doing "cool" things. And then there's the highly complex life equation to consider: Attention = scantily clad (photos) + horny men.

@Papi_Chulo " and nightshift most girls $300 to $500;" I wish I would have known that during my spur of the moment visit back in 2017. I think I spent around $800 if not more lol. Unless of course you mean not including the $200 or so to the house (and the courtesy "if you tip him well, he won't bother us" bribe)

Its very much dancer dependent on whether or not they allow touching. Though, yes, the official rule is "no".

@Wallanon, I've got no issue with him lol. I see his comments on reviews from time to time, all saying "club ad of the day", noticed a good 20% of the time he comments anything other than that, and got curious what his deal was. Speaking of issues, what are yours with my "3 reviews"?

@Customernumerouno that's not surprising. I was only told there was hard liquor in the mixed drinks by one of the dancers, but like everything they say, it was taken with a grain of salt.

@Big Third Eye, I wouldn't go as far as to say there are VAST differences in Wagyu beef. Everything about the process is held to an extremely high standard. There are some differences as there is a grading system ranging from C1 at the "worst" to Kobe A5 at the best. However, all of that only applies to real, Japanese-imported Wagyu. And Japan only exports about 10% worldwide, so there is an abundance of fakes out there.

You can't put a price on a piece of real, Japanese-imported Wagyu steak. There is no better piece of meat in the world.

I find it incredibly hard to believe anything a stripper tells me. Though, there has been one stripper that was shockingly honest. Told me what drugs she's tried, which stripper was selling what (drugs), how much she typically made a week, talked about her home life and family, etc. She brought up relationships and how every boyfriend always claims to be ok with what she does for work only to eventually ask her to stop. I ended up asking if she'd date a customer and there was no bs in her answer. Simply said probably not. In the context of a longer conversation, told me she only ever said good things about me. I'm still not sure I completely buy that last one. I'm much more inclined to believe that meant I simply don't come up in conversation ever. But since she's generally pretty open and honest with me, maybe there could be a bit of truth in that. But on the whole, I have to assume a lot of strippers hate their customers. Most guys I see in clubs tend to either be the loud, obnoxious, overly touchy but cheap "look at me" types, or gray-hair and loves to talk about things the average 22-year old stripper doesn't care about.

Club 390 in Chicago is good for non-extras, I enjoy my time there for the most part. Good for some illicit substances too if that's your thing. NYC I've only been to Flashdancers (I think that's what it was called). Fairly attractive (mostly white) women, although a bit too skinny for my tastes. That said, reading some of the other reviews, there's usually quite a few latinas normally. Although, it seems the consensus is its not really all that great for high-mileage extras, and almost universally expensive. Houston is probably your best bet, depending on what you want.

@Papi_Chulo "Reality is that out-of-wedlock births is something very-common in the black-community..." Out-of-wedlock births is very common in America period. As for the rest, agreed. Fast money comes with slow problems

A very open dancer I've seen more than a few times told me she probably averages about $500 a night. I have no idea how often she works, but I'd guess somewhere between 4 and 6 days a week and maybe 6 hours minimum each night. That's impressive enough to me considering she just turned 22 a couple months ago. On another note,

If that was your weirdest experience, count yourself lucky. Weird is strippers fighting over you in the club after a dance, one of them going to the manager afterwards, and later blowing up your phone "warning" you about the other about how she doesn't "really" like you or men of your race, and diving into personal details about the other's life.

Reading this made me realize just how packed in I was when I came here (roughly 2018 or so) if there's stages for the dancers. I remember the dance cubicles past the center(?) bar and that's about it. $75 for cover is insane though. Almost makes getting a table seem worth it if its already that expensive just to get in now.

I don't necessarily think it's an age issue. There are definitely dancers that target older guys under the (reasonable) assumption that they have more money to spend, but it isn't all that hard to get attention as a younger guy. Wear a suit or dress up. All the older men I see tend to, at the very least, wear a button-down shirt and some slacks. If you don't want to do that, make eye contact and smile more. If you look like you don't want to be approached, some just may not approach you. And, of course, you can always go up to them yourself instead of waiting. Or throw a few dollars while she's on stage.

I would have enjoyed my time a bit more had there been latinas (although not the biggest fan of enhanced assets), peekaboo123. Though, like I said, it was New Years right after midnight so likely not a typical night.

I'm surprised they cared about you wearing a mask. I've been a few times now and they've never cared. Though, only once have I been around 7:30 or so. And you are right about coming later. They're open until 6am on friday and saturday so most of the girls (and guys) don't really show up until around midnight or later.

Alright, bit of an update since I decided to go back yesterday. Someone mentioned the first time I went was a bit below normal standards, and I guess I kind of agree with that. I stick by my original rating of the dancers overall, but there were more thinner girls this time. I dressed up quite a bit this time to see what kind of attention I could attract, and although I didn't keep track, I can safely say a good portion of the girls came by to speak with me. I sampled quite a few of the girls this time instead of just one, and judging from this experience, it seems the thinner girls all grind and try a lot harder than the bigger ones. Zara, in particular, is an absolute performer. I would recommend a dance with her if you like dancers who put on a bit of a show. Overall, it seems the girls are all quite young, ranging from 19 to 23. There are certainly dancers there that are older but I did not speak with any. Also, all but one of the dancers who approached me engaged in small talk before asking for a dance. None at all were pushy or asked for tips or drinks for speaking with them. I also asked about getting into the "executive lounge" again, but no one is clear about it or the "VIP cards" they have. The one-hour $600 dance option is the only one I haven't tried, so I assume that would get you back there. But, since I did not go back there, again, I cannot say if any extras could be had. I don't specifically look for extras nor ask about them, but this still seems like a straight-laced club to me.

I liked the tall, skinny blonde who was wearing the knee-high boots, and most of the girls to be honest, I just don't think anyone there was above a 7. And I think giving a 7 out is fairly generous as well. I know my standards are high, which is why I said to add 1 or 2 points to my rankings. Certainly none were outright ugly though. Also, keep in mind I'm only ranking based on facial attractiveness and certainly comparing to the dancers I've seen in clubs in California and Miami.

Forgot to talk about the stage dances a bit so adding that here. Early on the girls did just one dance on the center stage. Later on, they would rotate between each stage after each song. There was a minimum of 3 girls on stage dancing during this time. Some would get fully naked, some would keep their bottoms on, and occasionally some wouldn't take anything off. There are a couple sets of girls who dance together on stage so there could be up to 5 girls on the stages at a time. I'm not sure if the duos were only together on stage or if you could separate them for lap dances. You can take 2 girls back for lap dances, of course.