discussion comment
5 years ago
-->"There is a time and place for both"
The front room and on stage
-->" or neither."
The VIP room
So yes, I agree :)
discussion comment
5 years ago
High heels make them look way hotter -- their legs look longer, it emphasizes their legs and especially makes their asses stick out a little. Always more attractive.
But one of my favorite moments is when they take their heels off in the VIP and pop down 5 inches and they're tiny.
I've been in a couple of dive clubs where heels are not mandatory, but all the clubs I frequent, mandatory for the girls to wear heels on the floor.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Obviously, the gift of anal is never not appropriate
Full day as your sex slave could be fun... or maybe if not full day, as long as you two hang out together.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I also agree that $500 is not out of line for LA, if she is providing the venue. The venue would cost you, what, a minimum of $150 anyway, so if it were any other stripper, you'd probably be very luck to get away with just $350, and the $150 would bring it to $500 anyway.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I make my offer first -- best way to get quoted an outrageous price is to ask her her price first. But sometimes she says her asking price first anyway. In which case, add me to those who thinks the rule of thumb is exactly the opposite of “I would not offer less than she is asking for this first time". First, because once you pay it once, that's the price and she'll have a very hard time going down -- and then she WILL lower the service level. Second, because it is definitely not the case that higher price equals better service; hell, sometimes I think it's the opposite, that there's some price beyond which, the girls think they're the shit and start coasting.
Most important thing to do, if you intend to see her multiple times, is make sure the price is acceptable the first time. This is exactly the right time to negotiate, and as long you negotiate down to a number she's still okay with, your service will be fine
discussion comment
5 years ago
CC: I can't remember exactly. I think I just pulled out a number that felt vaguely fair for me, and just let things happen from there. I mean, I didn't have any other number to compare it to, I started OTCing years before I ever heard of SA or had any idea what an escort cost. I might've picked a number that was twice what a VIP room costs? (although there is absolutely no reason to tie OTC offers to VIP room prices, at the time that might have been the only anchor I had)
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5 years ago
-->"where did you draw the line at how much you were willing to pay?"
There's a few factors that go into where I draw the line -- the ultimate limit, of course, is how much I could afford, given that I want to do it at least once or twice a month. But that number is higher than what my actual limit is. I set my limit based on asking lots of girls for OTC over many years, as a result I know about what the average is; I'll adjust a little higher or lower based on how hot she is, but that's about what I offer. I also compare that number against other activities -- e.g., PPM for an SB -- and make sure it's still worth it. Although at least in this area, OTC prices for an attractive stripper, and PPM for an attractive SB, aren't terribly far off from each other
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5 years ago
Or I could have just +1 Local Hick. Maybe I should bother to read the previous replies from now on :)
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5 years ago
Ish, I'm telling you, that's a critical mistake. The illusion that her pics and vids are temporary makes strippers feel much more safe and motivated to send pics. If you don't care about stripper nudies, that's one thing. But if you enjoy them, refusing to use snapchat is a huge mistake.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Agree with Paul. For the first few times, I only use use her # to make appointments, and then after each appointment, a "had so much fun" message. By then I might be asking about OTC, and in many cases, she starts casually texting, sending nudies or at least sexies, etc. I like getting nudies and flirting texts, and the kind of girls who collect regulars just seem to know that after a few trips, that's a typical perq. But I'd say stick to making appointments, and post-appointment appreciation texts, for a few trips
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5 years ago
I may lack imagination and vision, but I've just never figured out a way technology might make my experience better. It could be used to do things I don't care about (e.g., VR), or do things that actually make my club experience worse (e.g., reserving a stripper). The changes that appeal to millennials and gen-z -- e.g., make it more of a party with eroticism, rather than focus on eroticism -- is diametrically opposed to what I'm looking for. On the other hand, with genz's and millennials avoiding the clubs in droves, I understand the need for change. For me, this change will just drive me more towards arrangements
discussion comment
5 years ago
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whodeyFat bastard that can afford to fuck hot strippers
I often go to the club which as much as 10k ... pesos equivalent
discussion comment
5 years ago
-->"If you go to Montreal, it's really easy to get an escort and not be arrested. No experience with Toronto.
So, the Nordic model seems to work fine there, and it appears that customers aren't being rounded up and wiped out in prostitution pogroms."
Ish, I'm sure that's true, just like in most cities escorts aren't currently being rounded up and wiped out in prostitution pogroms. But today, some escorts get caught in stings, and for them, it's pretty tough. I have absolutely read of johns getting caught in stings in Canada, and it is now tougher for them than the previous slap on the wrist (and even worse in other countries that have adopted this model). So from the self-interest side -- do expect the consequences to be more serious if you do get caught. The stakes are much higher for men.
That is ignoring the serious philosophical objections I have to this -- the regressive movement of the Nordic model towards decriminalization, and instead moving even deeper into the criminalization with the fact that it's an immmoral unethical crime against the prostitute with the man as perpetrator. I'd prefer this kind of thinking not get into the legal system here. It's many steps backwards IMO.
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5 years ago
BTW if we had good extras clubs here, I'd probably still be doing ITC, even with OTC available. Actually, let me take that back -- at one point I had an ATF with whom I did OTC, who worked at the "limited extras" club here. I did both OTCs with her, and ITCs. I just love being in a strip club surrounded by strippers, so there's always a time I might get excited by ITC even if OTC is available
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5 years ago
Rick, fair comments! Responses:
-->"but I found $250 to keep the girl for hours to be closer to flyover country pricing than something I'd find in a place like San Fran"
At the time I wrote that article, my buddies and I were absolutely still -- sometimes -- finding $250 OTC. No fudging. It wasn't easy -- hell, there were strippers in SF quoting $800 back in 2001. But you could still find $250 OTC with a dayshift girl if you worked at it. But it was definitely the tail end -- today, it's not easy to find under $400 -- which is also about where SBs start here, too. A buddy of mine scored a $350 stripper who as okay, as recently as a few months ago.
-->"Second, who schedules 90 minutes with an escort anyway? The 90 minute/$500 amount was not the most representative comparison stat. "
On the escort forums, 90 minutes is incredibly common. But those are mongers who are the equivalent of PLs here. So, why did I pick 90 minutes? Given that an OTC often lasts 4+ hours, didn't seem totally relevant to compare to a 60 minute escort experience, especially given that the experienced "mongers" all favored 90 minutes. Maybe the article is better with two comparisons: $350 for an hour for the escort, or for a comparison at equal time, $600-$1000+ for the escort for 4 hours.
-->"Third, the costs of those incidentals can add up quickly, especially when one takes a dancer to another strip club."
Yes. 100% controllable by the PL rather than a fixed cost, but if he goes to the SC and spends $1000, well, that's an extra $1000. That's not what I ever did :)
-->"Net-net I don't buy his conclusion that stripper OTC is cheaper than escorts. "
I think if you run the numbers -- but be fair, do it on an equal time basis, 4 hours for each, say -- even with the higher OTC price, if the incidentals are controlled, and do it with a mid-range+ escort who is anywhere near as hot as your typical OTC stripper, it's still way cheaper. Now factor in that the stripper might stay not just for 4 hours, but overnight. (I realize you don't do that, but many of us do).
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5 years ago
Ish-->"The Nordic model seeks a remedy to that. "
I think we're perilously close to having to move this to political forum. But -- Ish, I strongly disagree that the Nordic model seeks a "remedy" to only punishing prostitutes. "Remedy" implies introducing some fairness, e.g., prosecuting them both. The Nordic model, from its roots to its implementation is crystal clear -- they are REVERSING the punishment roles. The prostitutes are not doing anything illegal and no longer can be prosecuted -- only the men get prosecuted, and the penalties introduced are generally much harsher than they are today. There is a conscious design of these laws on a philosophical underpinning of "sex-for-money is not a victimless crime, the prostitute is the victim, the john is the perpetrator and should be punished harshly."
I am happy not to be SCing, OTCing, looking for arrangements,etc., in one of these countries. The view is absolutely regressive -- it is not a step towards decriminalizing, it is codifying and doubling down on the fact that it is a crime with a victim and a perpetrator, and the perpetrator should be harshly punished. Puritanism but with the sense of punishment reversed.
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5 years ago
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gStephThe view from the other side of the room
Well, if you'd just called it Gawker level, we'd all be giving you a standing ovation :) Of course, no one but gawker is capable of reaching that level, but so what?
lol ... I do think arrangement-like is a description would resonate more, and I know a few of us here enjoy that, and have had DM conversations with guys here who are actively pursuing it. "Long term relationship" is too loaded as a term for most people to cop to
discussion comment
5 years ago
-->"My ATF DS will spend more "free" time with me before getting dances than any other stripper. I've sat with her for a couple of hours on a slow day and typically it's around 45 min. And all that translates to longer time with a raging boner because during that time we are spooning and her ass is rubbing all over my crotch"
That is really key -- it's takes the sex not to the next level for me, but hops multiple levels. Getting me all worked up in text before the visit, an hour of insane teasing until I'm practically a babbling idiot, then go to the back with an expanded menu... the sex is waaay better.
For me. As Warrior points out, some guys don't value any of that, and the heart-pumping excitement of new pussy is what they like. Not saying everyone should like it the way I do, just explaining what I get from a CF.
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5 years ago
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gStephThe view from the other side of the room
-->"The levels are possibly accurate"
-->"I hope to never reach the highest level,"
That's the thing -- the levels AREN'T accurate... none of us want to reach the highest level (depending on what the definition of "long term relationship" is -- most of us are interpreting that as romantic, or more likely the PL deluding himself into thinking it's romantic). Plus, one of the nice things about stripper/customer relationships, even if it's ATF/Favecustomer, is how few strings are attached for someone to easily walk away. I'd say outside of one or two guys who I've seen post here over the years who married their strippers, none of us have reached, or want to reach, level 7. So, it's broken.
But, at least a few of us have gotten into PPM arrangement-like relationships with strippers, I wonder if that's a level 7 that (a few) people might enjoy. Having a level 7 that everyone hates and no one does is meaningless.
discussion comment
5 years ago
My weak understanding (I haven't read about it in a while) is that in parallel with decriminalizing the prostitute's role, it's common for these laws to double-down on penalties and prosecutions for the johns. That is, the prostitute is not doing anything illegal, but the johns are not just doing something illegal (the way they already are today), but the penalties are not the mere infractions or slap-on-the-hand misdemeanors they are today. It substantially increases the risk for the men.
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5 years ago
I should also mention advantages around her attention ITC. If I want to drink with her for an hour before getting a VIP, she'll drink with me for an hour before we do our VIP, regardless of who else might be waiting. Or, in other words, CFs and ATFs are what really deliver the experience I'm after ITC
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5 years ago
-->"To me the issue takes care of itself. Once a fave doesn't do much for you anymore, move on. It's not complicated."
Right. I also think the question of "why have a CF?" is also self-answering -- and if you can't see the answer, Nidan, then you haven't really discovered the clear and huge benefits from whoever you think of as your CF (or maybe you've never had one?)
Among the common benefits I've had:
- More of her time
- Expanded menu and general YMMV experiences
- Lower prices
- Better at keeping her appointments
- OTC (for those girls who don't OTC with everyone)
- Nudies and sexting between seeing her
- Ancillary time with her such as taking her to lunch or drinks before her shift so we can pre-game
Those two on the bottom, I really love when she revs me up with sexting, teases the hell out of me as we pre-game drinks, the sex is even better.
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5 years ago
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NohubIf it feels good, do it
I agree -- ultimately the fun is swapping great stories with guys who just love SCs and love talking about them.
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5 years ago
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NohubIf it feels good, do it
It wasn't upsetting to me, I just remember it as predictable -- being able to score a FWB is a pretty tame story compared to many of my others, even if it's so beyond you that it's inconceivable and you think it amounts to a superpower where I can score strippers all the time. Hell, lots of guys here have scored free sex with strippers, it's uncommon but not unbelievable. But, your role in the group is to make little bitchy comments and then go away. Still, there's no way I'd tell any of my really great stories here -- some really are hard to believe
discussion comment
5 years ago
Up until 10 years ago, I went to extras clubs, and was much more of a variety guy. I did have favorites for short periods of time -- a girl I couldn't get out of my head for weeks or months -- but otherwise was always rotating around. In a club with lots of attractive women giving extras, I didn't really see the point.
10 years ago, I switched to non-extras clubs. The advantages of having a CF are many.
If I were going to start going to extras clubs again, I dunno what my model would be. I've gotten good out of extracting YMMV from CFs; on the other hand, if you're already getting extras, how much YMMV is there to get? Maybe pricing advantages, more of her time, expanded menu, and OTC? Not sure, I'd have to do it again to see