Just Glad To Say OTC

... and from here on you are not going back ITC ever !

This one sums it up! https://tuscl.net/article.php?id=44731

Well, Subraman's article was well crafted, but I had a few issues with some of the baked in assumptions.

First, I do a shit ton of OTC and I've become pretty good at managing the cost over the years, but I found $250 to keep the girl for hours to be closer to flyover country pricing than something I'd find in a place like San Fran. Now maybe some of these girls think they'll get more if they stick it out or maybe he's paying them more than he claims, idk, but that's not a sustainable number in a place like San Fran unless the girl is a real pig or desperate for a drug fix.

Second, who schedules 90 minutes with an escort anyway? The 90 minute/$500 amount was not the most representative comparison stat.

Third, the costs of those incidentals can add up quickly, especially when one takes a dancer to another strip club. This is why I only do this sporadically. IME dancers who go with customers to other clubs always want to ingratiate themselves with that club's dancers and that comes right out of the guy's stack - cha ching.

Net-net I don't buy his conclusion that stripper OTC is cheaper than escorts. Indeed, I suspect that one can bust an ut for far cheaper on an escort site than by taking a stripper out in San Fran.

Now none of this is to poo poo on his article, which by and large I think was very well done and on the mark. I just think he fudged the numbers a bit to make the cost piece look better. IME Stripper OTC is generally much more expensive than dialing up an escort and, with all the added benefits, it should be.

Rick, fair comments! Responses:

-->"but I found $250 to keep the girl for hours to be closer to flyover country pricing than something I'd find in a place like San Fran"

At the time I wrote that article, my buddies and I were absolutely still -- sometimes -- finding $250 OTC. No fudging. It wasn't easy -- hell, there were strippers in SF quoting $800 back in 2001. But you could still find $250 OTC with a dayshift girl if you worked at it. But it was definitely the tail end -- today, it's not easy to find under $400 -- which is also about where SBs start here, too. A buddy of mine scored a $350 stripper who as okay, as recently as a few months ago.

-->"Second, who schedules 90 minutes with an escort anyway? The 90 minute/$500 amount was not the most representative comparison stat. "

On the escort forums, 90 minutes is incredibly common. But those are mongers who are the equivalent of PLs here. So, why did I pick 90 minutes? Given that an OTC often lasts 4+ hours, didn't seem totally relevant to compare to a 60 minute escort experience, especially given that the experienced "mongers" all favored 90 minutes. Maybe the article is better with two comparisons: $350 for an hour for the escort, or for a comparison at equal time, $600-$1000+ for the escort for 4 hours.

-->"Third, the costs of those incidentals can add up quickly, especially when one takes a dancer to another strip club."

Yes. 100% controllable by the PL rather than a fixed cost, but if he goes to the SC and spends $1000, well, that's an extra $1000. That's not what I ever did :)

-->"Net-net I don't buy his conclusion that stripper OTC is cheaper than escorts. "

I think if you run the numbers -- but be fair, do it on an equal time basis, 4 hours for each, say -- even with the higher OTC price, if the incidentals are controlled, and do it with a mid-range+ escort who is anywhere near as hot as your typical OTC stripper, it's still way cheaper. Now factor in that the stripper might stay not just for 4 hours, but overnight. (I realize you don't do that, but many of us do).

BTW if we had good extras clubs here, I'd probably still be doing ITC, even with OTC available. Actually, let me take that back -- at one point I had an ATF with whom I did OTC, who worked at the "limited extras" club here. I did both OTCs with her, and ITCs. I just love being in a strip club surrounded by strippers, so there's always a time I might get excited by ITC even if OTC is available

Just an observation, not that I necessarily know the facts to each PL's circumstances.

The Dugan style seems to often go in for OTC cold-turkey per se - hit the club and try to score OTC often w/ an unknown dancer the same night/visit he meets her? And from her POV, it could just be a one-and-done, and thus why it may be harder to score a prime-price with the Dugan cold-turkey approach?

The Subra method seems to be the "fave-dancer' OTC approach - e.g. he grooms a fave-dancer in the club with whom he consistently spends on her in-club visits - so he gets a "bulk-discount"/regulars-discount per se based on the fact he takes care of her on a regular/semi-regular basis in the club, and likely on a regular basis OTC, so perhaps the fave-dancer is willing to take less per meet and make it up on volume Subra ITC/OTC visits? Also being a regular, a dancer may be more agreeable to a lower OTC offer in fear of getting voted of the Subra-island if she doesn't play ball per se (her being take off the fave-list).

Not saying this is exactly what's going-on, just a PL-observation.

^ not to mention Subra seems to source his OTCs from dayshift where $$$ may not be as plentiful nor as consistent and thus better deals to be had w.r.t. many dayshifts

The dancer I went OTC with did strongly hint at an even lower cost with regular visits so that would make sense (shes also hinted at overnights - but I am not sold thats possible). Her initial offer was about double on what we agreed to, whether or not my prior visit & ITC had an effect on cost is hard to know.

In the end I think a lot will always come down to a combination of dancer / negotiation skills / timing / frequency. IE it would make sense that a 1:30am on a busy night with a dancer you've never met, who has already had a successful night has less odds of being cheaper than a night when it is quiet, you're already acquainted with the dancer & the dancer has not had a strong night.

I quoted that link not from a cost/pricing angle (as that can vary greatly), but of all the experiences - ITC, civilian, call girl, street walker, I too find OTC with a dancer as the best. Royal Ossetra Caviar!

Dancers have great bodies, tight and firm - that many civilian can't match, much less prostitutes and call girls. Dancers have great personality, whine less (i said less!). All of this results in very satisfying sex - nearly wanting more.

Also why do subra, dugans appear to play a long game for something that is a simple pay for play transaction?
I have friends who scoff at hooking up becoming more complicated than pay for play.
But I would not touch the kind of girls these buddies gladly fuck. A female is a female for them.
Yes some guys just wanna nut.

My experience has been more effort results in non-extras girl providing the extras.
It is quality of experience than money cannot buy. Anyways my 2 cents

@Papi: I work both long games and quick strikes and, IME, a longer game does not equate to cheaper OTC. If anything, a girl that resists longer often wants more when she finally does agree. Rapport can definitely help overcome misgivings about providing pussy for $$, but it normally doesn't motivate girls to provide it on the cheap. Any girl who has been dancing for a while has received countless offers and has probably heard girls jabbering in the DR as well, so even those girls who don't do OTC much (or at all) tend to have a decent handle on what's fair market price.

Now I don't know the San Fran market at all, so I'm not going to argue with Sub about the numbers, but I do club enough in a few other expensive big city markets, including L.A., that I strongly suspect that there is something missing from his account. Maybe he found a couple of unicorns or maybe he traded in a lot more on quality than he'll admit, idk.

I also question how many guys want to keep an escort for 90 minutes or a stripper for the whole night. A majority of guys who do these things are married and/or have other obligations, so they can't get devote for large chunks of time just to get some paid pussy. I suspect he may be projecting his own desires upon the broader population and then cobbling together this tenuous comparison to justify his choices. As someone who has sampled multiple p4p options over the years, I agree that stripper OTC is the caviar of p4p. I just own that I'm paying more than a lot of guys for pussy because I like them very hot, very low volume and much less transactional than the other p4p options.

Assuming comparable hotness and services, in terms of bang for the buck, I think that depends a lot on the experience one is looking for. In terms of buck for the bang, I think escorts are cheaper in most markets.

It’s very hard to try and game out all possible scenarios when doing OTC and I wouldn’t even try, I have two that I’m regular with, most of the time no money changes hands, one gal I help her with her rent occasionally the other gal would rather I take her shopping once or twice a month, I think in their mind it makes them my GF and not a prostitute, I’m not judging just explaining how these particular gals deal with it.

I'm still having a Ball in Sugar Babe land. All the looks of the best strippers, but not the craziness. And an overnight stay is kind of implied.

Just now read Sub’s article and think it’s right on. I’ve played in MPs, bodyrub studios, escorts,and SCs, and definitely agree on the overall hotness level of strippers. There have been times in some cities where the escort scene rivaled strippers in looks (Houston in the early 2000s). There was also a bodyrub girl in Houston that was as hot as any woman I’ve come across anywhere, ever. But lately, most of the escorts advertising in my play area (AZ) are older than most strippers, and overall are not getting better looking, but worse IMHO. Meanwhile, strippers are getting hotter and hotter, and there are always new girls. I like seeing my regulars in the club, but it’s always exciting to meet someone brand new. The struggle for me is getting past the notion that strippers are worth more for OTC, just because they are strippers and are hotter. Last night a stunning stripper that I’ve known for awhile quoted me $800 for OTC. I’ve had others quote $1200, and later come “down” to $600. BUT, at nicer clubs it’s hard for me to imagine any of the ultra hot dancers doing OTC for less than $400, and most want $500 at least. I’ve been doing this for a long time, but I really need help with negotiation skills. On some level I’m relieved when they decline a lower offer, but in the back of my mind I’m thinking of actually paying their asking price, and THAT is scary. Great advice all!

"no pussy is better than stripper pussy - why? because they are crazy... and fuck like they are getting paid!!"

desertscrub implies this might be a problem?

A good rule of thumb azdd, is most strippers I have met who offer OTC want basically the same amount you pay them in the club for a half hour dance. So if it's $300 for a half hour then they typically go for $300 for an hour or more. If the club takes a large cut then they may take less. I knew of one club where the VIP is $300 and the dancer gets only $115 out of that, and she asked for $250 for an hour OTC.

Hotter ones may want a bit more, often tacking on their tip out. One dancer I used to see until she got a bit too flakey, would see guys before or after shift. How well she did before shift often determined whether she danced that night.

*******OTC Cheersss 💲✔️