Comments by David9999 (page 12)

The foreign dancers I'm running across actually are (in most cases) more like the normal girl next door types. While I don't believe that most american strippers are junkies or whores or necessarily getting beaten by their boyfriends or supporting X-box layabout boyfriends, there is still a part truth to that stereotype. Many born in america dancer, despite various problems beyond their control, as american citizens did in fact have lots of choices in life and instead ended up making bad choices With the foreign dancers, I am in general seeing more a home spun quality, because many are in stripping not due to bad choices in life, but to circumstances truely beyond their control, and often they are strippers because its high enough pay to earn enough money to send back to other family members in their originating countries. They tend to take their jobs seriously, if anything they avoid even having boyfriends and getting sidetracked.

In the northeast USA, relative to the real estate super-bubble between 2000 and 2006, there's been huge decrease in residential construction, new houses and additions etc - and its very easy to notice. This alone (aside from other economic factors) means a large amount of individuals unemployed and disemployed with lots of time to kill with a near perfect excuse provided (for married etc) to out on the town somewhere, whether construction, mortgage lending people, real estate people and so forth. It so happens that strip clubs are relatively low cost entertainment if one avoids private dances and if one can only pays the cover (not common on many day shifts anyways) or has to buy a drink or 2 under the min So what I've noticed is customer traffic relatively high in certain clubs but few buying dancers, so the clubs seem to be doing minimally OK but the dancers taking the hit.

"Paris" is the only buzz killer here, the way I've consistently been dropping hundred dollar bills over the past year on strippers (like certain other patrons spend ones) is hardly a buzz killing move - quite the opposite in fact

Kissing is very low risk for in terms of spreading disease, even some of the basic ones. CNN reported in December 2007 "Colds are most commonly spread by hand-to-hand contact. Cold viruses rarely jump through the air, and there's not much virus in saliva -- even lingering kisses rarely spread colds. The experts advise: Don't shake hands with someone who has a cold, and wash your hands often to keep from spreading or catching the viruses."

Actually that Bond girl accent that foreign dancers can sometimes have can be very sexy, and american born and bred girls simply don't have those accents. The Bond girl accent can be a variation of Brazilian Portuguese, French, Spanish, German, Russian, Italian or 10 to 20 other languages. Early Bond movies apparently used relatively few professional female dubbers to do most of the onscreen Bond girl voices, that's why they sound like a composite accent from a variety of countries, and why most voices movie to movie are somewhat similar.

Obviously "Paris" is generalizing, of course there were "extras girls" many decades ago, and I would take to mean she means "extras" girls THEN started showing up in larger numbers, when it became more mainstream and more the norm and standard way of doing things in many clubs including certain upscale clubs In regards to the expense account issue, aside from closer scrutiny from auditiors and SEC rules etc, there were also various sexual harassment cases where women executives were dragged along with male managers in the office to entertain and discuss business with clients - to strip joints thus arguably creating the requisite "hostile work environment" - so the male managers had to chose between NOT inviting them out or going elsewhere - and they had to chose the 2nd because by not inviting them out that could also be construed as a form of gender based discrimination. So strip clubs lost these clients in large numbers.

The major broadcast/print/and cable media which is about 95% far left has no interest in presenting an honest debate on the issue of man made global warming. There's at least a 3 to 5 year lag between contrary evidence and the major media presenting it, however the public will eventually be very angry when they realize they've been scammed. Look at Scientific American (always going far left when the opportunities arise) which dragged their feet for a year in regards to clear-cut evidence that AT LEAST one third of all carton dioxide being produced on earth was originating from plant decay, and even when they finally published it, they were beside themselves in trying to explain the alleged insignficance of it all.

"Said she's working on forgiving him when this morning she was ready to get a restraing order for him to stay away from her!" Many women tend to get turned on by nonmonogamous, cheating, controlling and disrespectful "jerks" - and I've have at least 2 posts a few months back why every guy should at least put of the "gentlemen horndog" vibe - although this guy clearly went too far with his disrespect in my opinion By the way having a million (or maybe 2) net worth is not the big deal it used to be. You'll need at least 5 if you really want to live high.

Why always the focus (not just here either) on DFK or even LFK, because it anything in terms of impact REGULAR kissing (yup it still exists I think) - for example the 3 to 5 second extended kiss mouth to mouth with little if any use of the tongue. Assuming there's a mutuality to it, in terms of a romantic kick, that's where its at in my opinion - in part because its not overtly sexual per se, instead its more the promise of sex. DFK for example is about as romantic as a blowjob in my opinion.

Its all a matter of percentages, although of course there are still lots of interesting (born in the USA) american dancers. Foreign born women are more likely to be down-to-earth, regular, nonpretentious, unaffected, straightforward and appreciative of the simple things in life - the reason being that most have seen true (vs the John Edwards definition of) poverty first hand. Most have not yet had time to be spoiled by the over abundant lifestyle america provides for most citizens. This can impact everything, whether an ATF type, other dancer, or even with AMP girls. Americans have become increasingly spoiled over the years, maybe I see in some of these women characteristics more common in american women 2 or 3 generations back.

Soon cell phones are going to have built-in GPS capability, allowing caller A to know where (call receiver) B's physical locations is. Of course Caller A and B will be have to pre-agree via subcription or some other method to enable this, so random callers will not be able to do this, but (one might think) what husband would not want his wife to know exactly where he is at all times? Bottom line is don't buy a strip club, it may not be such a great business in the future

strip clubs should all have showers (which few actually have) and the housemother (as a last line of defense) should screen these girls for any problems. In the clubs I've been at however, I've not noticed too many problems like this

For strippers in the last year, only LFK or regular kissing, I count 7 different dancers, not a single one born in america, 1 to 4, all ATF level (2 with so many hours I cannot keep track,) number 5 the sister of an ATF, 6 a very horny dancer from Ecadour, 7 a Brazilian herself initating it but definitely pushing for an upsell. That's roughly 10% based kissing relative to quantity of women danced with. In general, most dancers consider this very personal, and its nearly always limited to a Champagne Room level privacy, meaning your going to be wih them way more time one dance. If the rare cases where there is a mutuality to it, obviously in my case 4 at the AFT level are like that at some level, but 2 of those (for certain) themselves way way into it, (one even more than me) both with an exclusivity factor I cannot detail but I am certain of - well in those cases it simply way way better than kissing 100 women in a year SIDE NOTE - in regards to escorts and AMPs, I don't know too much about escorts but I'm aware of the GFE deal and obvously unless you're are regular its obviously hard core acting especially with a first time situation with that girl Now with AMPs (Korean for this discussion) as many know their "kisses" are more like pecks, perhaps not even kisses per se, however there was this one particular model level girl who kept insisting with an absurd amount of earnestness she constantly missed me and waited for me each morning, even though I rarely saw her (I presumed to be AMP girl SS equivalent) -however in any case she's apparently been traded (like a baseball card i think) for an another equally beautiful girl from another city. With this original girl, I would have loved to have kissed her, because there was a least a small amount of mututality, not what she claims necessarily, that is unlikely, but enough that real kissing would have been very nice. Now her replacement which I've now met has this tiny and highly kissable mouth, but also another peck you on the cheek or graze you near the mouth type. What I would give to get into a real kissing session with that girl. AMPs are germ phobic, which is good news for the serious stuff, but unfortunately they worry about possibly catching something less serious

For strippers in the last year, only LFK or regular kissing, I count 7 different dancers, not a single one born in america, 1 to 4, all ATF level (2 with so many hours I cannot keep track,) number 5 the sister of an ATF, 6 a very horny dancer from Ecadour, 7 a Brazilian herself initating it but definitely pushing for an upsell. That's roughly 10% based kissing relative to quantity of women danced with. In general, most dancers consider this very personal, and its nearly always limited to a Champagne Room level privacy, meaning your going to be wih them way more time one dance. If the rare cases where there is a mutuality to it, obviously in my case 4 at the AFT level are like that at some level, but 2 of those (for certain) themselves way way into it, (one even more than me) both with an exclusivity factor I cannot detail but I am certain of - well in those cases it simply way way better than kissing 100 women in a year SIDE NOTE - in regards to escorts and AMPs, I don't know too much about escorts but I'm aware of the GFE deal and obvously unless you're are regular its obviously hard core acting especially with a first time situation with that girl Now with AMPs (Korean for this discussion) as many know their "kisses" are more like pecks, perhaps not even kisses per se, however there was this one particular model level girl who kept insisting with an absurd amount of earnestness she constantly missed me and waited for me each morning, even though I rarely saw her (I presumed to be AMP girl SS equivalent) -however in any case she's apparently been traded (like a baseball card i think) for an another equally beautiful girl from another city. With this original girl, I would have loved to have kissed her, because there was a least a small amount of mututality, not what she claims necessarily, that is unlikely, but enough that real kissing would have been very nice. Now her replacement which I've now met has this tiny and highly kissable mouth, but also another peck you on the cheek or graze you near the mouth type. What I would give to get into a real kissing session with that girl. AMPs are germ phobic, which is good news for the serious stuff, but unfortunately they worry about possibly catching something less serious

Actually the Nevada issue came up a few months back, and I think she's pretty much figured out what the deal was. I've even asked her at one point why she just didn't cash it in with a (non-married) rich guy, but like many of these ultra top shelf girls (strippers and non-strippers alike) she's a romance junkie too, so she still wants it all, but of course she got sidetracked for a time with the standard broke/loser/abusive stripper b/f deal. In addition her history (one particular guy in the past too) suggests a focus on married guys. Obvious unavailability (like to "make babies") apparently holds some special attraction to her. As far as I can tell her expenses and borrowings are at such a substantial level, she's either going to have to be way more aggressive on her job and the amount of hours she works each week, or quickly find a (non-married) wealthy guy, or probably lose everything. This emerging downturn is going to be a big wake up call for many of these dancers.

Minnow - I was stunned to have an ATF level dancer (a flat out 10 level flawless beauty) tell me she was looking into working as a "dancer" for big money on one of the Nevada ranches, which is on the opposite side of the USA from her northeast locale. Here are some other factors: she apparently was not even aware there were brothels intertwined with all this, and the ranch she mentioned as far as I could tell had no strip club at all, she had been solicited by what she described as an "older woman" she said she trusted (she wouldn't explain in further detail), in the past on 2 or 3 ocassions she's suggested certain outrageous other career options to "test" my reaction as she often claims (nothing this extreme though) and this apparently (while only being tossed out for discussion) was not a test per se it was actually real, her income this year is way down, she has major bills, has half-jokingly asked me if I would be her sugar daddy, and recently asked me (less than half jokingly) if I wanted to "make a baby" with her, (absurd of course) and in fact has very significant ties to the present area she lives in, including multiple kids, extended family, and home ownership. Wild guessing she might be making 30 to 50k as a dancer because she works only half-time, and in her best years she probably made 40 to 80k, however I have absolutely no doubt that this woman would be worth 250k to 500k with full time escorting in a major market like Vegas, or at least 200k in ranch bordello work (she's way beyond any of the the girls on the web site of this ranch, and she could only be matched by top shelf Vegas escorts, meaning she would go out at 500 to 1000 per one hour session), she would be absolutely the top of the scale - however she's simply not a whore, quite the opposite in fact. Her attitude now is that this "older woman" was not telling her the entire story, which is apparently is exactly what occured.

Most dancers on the high end of the attractiveness scale are major drama junkies, so if you give them a phone number either directly or by calling them unblocked, make sure its a throw-away prepaid type cell which you basically only use primarily to collect messages - that way you keep their drama fix to one minute doses. Yes, its true you generally will need to create new drama (to spice it up etc) for these girls to feed their drama addictions, but you should do it in-person with you in control.

I would agree on the the discount issue relative to the pink site, its more accurate to say its simply not being discussed - simply because most dancers have yet to face this stark reality.

"And I don't doubt the possibility of a major recession. I just don't think it's going to work out in the positive fashion that you think it will" I actually meant some of the top shelf dancers, (e.g. NFL cheerleader level or better) may perhaps be able to live in a small apartment or if they have a house with an ARM loan bought at the market peak may be able to keep it with a workout with the lenders, however many will have to dump the $50,000 to $55,000 set of wheels they drive around in - one of the my AFTs has both that kind of loan and house bought at the market top, and a set of wheels just like what I've described.

The term ATF while of course nominally meaning "all time favorite" in practical terms does not have a precise definition however I would describe it in simplest terms (from the customer perpective) as a special status dancer, and its entirely possible (though expensive) to have 2 or more simultaneously. I've tried having a single ATF and I believe its a high risk strategy for a variety of reasons, particularly for a married man. Take the case of a single guy, he could easily have 2 or more girlfriends, and each one could be far more appealing with a higher level of involvement than for example the prior 6 or 7 girlfriends he's had in the past. Strip club AFTs are are really not much different.

"if the first dance does not involve some substantial contact with my dick (albeit still in my pants), there will be no subsequent dances." Would using their knee against your groin qualify as substantial? In high contact jurisdictions, odds are quite high, at least when you're paying for a nude level dancer or any 15 minute session, that her naked clit will be rubbing up against your (still covered) dick - however some girls simply do it better than others, this is what happened to me in a club when my low 30 something foreign born ATF for that club was absent, which is very rare for her - so I end up with this (not typical for me) 100% american girl, very pretty and very shapely blonde and when she told me her age "I'm just 19" - right in the middle of the dance, I came close to losing it, which normally I would never do in such a situation. Some kind of evolutionary thing working I would guess.

Thanks to another thread like this one on ATF and Christmas gifts, started by someone else a few months back, I saved probabably 1000's. Once again having multiple ATFs (if one can afford it) and having each one generally aware of other dancers, plus (if you're real bad), having young, pretty, and nubile AMP girls ready and willing in various locales in town - all of this is a real plus because when you spend less than a dollar on them, for all they know you might be spending $1000 on someone else. Note constantly being accused - for example by a very beautiful ATF dancer - of various indiscretions, some true and some false ("you're late, you were with that massage girl again, right?" "No of course not") - probably means you are probably doing something correct as it concerns any chemistry being developed between you and the dancer, which sounds counter-intuitive but its the absolute truth.

Switching clubs will notnecessarily work when nearly all the clubs in the region are experiencing a major slowdown. In regards to alternate work 2 major problems: 1, a very high percentage of the foreign born girls have some kind of visa issues (e.g their original visa was for 3 months and they are now on month 37 of their overstay) 2. I've met probably 150 to 200 dancers in the last year of so, and probably have had conversations with 100 or so where they mentioned or brought up their backgrounds and goals in life etc and of a rough guess maybe 3 or 4 were college grads, one or 2 on grad degrees, however most barely finished high, many dropped out of high school - the alternate career paths would be something like hairdressing or low end retail, which is very low pay compared to the equivalent effort with stripping. One exception would be the (very rare 1 out of 100) 10 level dancers, if they give up their independence they can alway dig up a sugar daddy to support them or get into a job where a flawless 10 level face and figure would be useful, e.g certain upscale retail jobs, however their wages will still not approach an equivalent effort in stripping. Its entirely possible even in a deep recession that in markets where strip club entry barriers are high (i.e. few if any new clubs can be built) that a higher quantity of low spending now mostly idle or disemployed customers - might be able to scrape together enough money to buy dances now and then, assuming they do not believe they are getting ripped off.

It would seem that selective discounting by dancers may increase the friction between dancers, however based upon speed reading (1000's) of posts on pink site, I've not seen that as a major issue in recent years, instead its the "extras" issue that really creates the big problem. My guess is that this issue will become increasingly important as the economy gets worse and a possible "War between the dancers" (as I've described it a few months back) starts accelerating. Dancers sitting idle half their shifts will help no one, certainly not the dancers and particularly not the clubs as they are now clearly losing dance fees.

Disappearing or hiding - should always be the first option 2. Ultra-cheap gifts vaguely disignated for a certain event s/b the 2nd option. I used option #1 on her birthday very recently. In regards to Christmas with several ATFs types a combination of both hiding and ultra cheap gifts (burned CDs also) worked very well