tuscl

Dancer choice: sit idle at the bar or discount dance prices

Tuesday, February 5, 2008 1:00 PM
I believe that clubs in general will keep their retail dance prices constant, however its now very clear we are in the midst of some kind of recession, (I would argue a major recession with 3 to 5 years to work off this (mostly foreign saver financed)_ massive credit bubble) so the burden is on the dancers who will be faced with a clear choice 1. sit at the bar and remain idle most of their shift 2. or cut their prices, for example in half. Upscale or semi-upscale strip clubs in northeast locales typically average around 20 to 25 per dance, often with a 5 dollar dance fee to the house. So the smart dancers will aggressively solicit customers for the 25 dollar dance and offer customers steep discounts. This may result for example in 10 dollars to the house, 15 dollars to the dancer - all for an average of 2.5 songs which would include sitting on the customers lap time while waiting for the 1st song to begin. From the club management perspective by keeping the retail prices constant, the dancer discounts will make it seem more like a bargain to the customer. Dancers will not be happy, but soon 100 to 150 dollars (net of house/dance fees) will be considered a good shift for average 7 or 8 level dancers. That's more than twice Walmart wages arguably doing 10% to 20% of the work - still not bad. If they want more than 100 to 150 dollars them they must offer something extraordinary, for example 8.5 or level or higher in atttractiveness - presenting to customers something they will generally not experience in their day to day lives.

22 comments

  • Ironcat
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    16 years ago
    At my favorite club the dancers set the price of a LD and most are more than willing to do multi-dance discounts. They then pay a tip out at the end of the shift to the house. I believe that this set up is most conducive to what you describe, but doubt if it would occur in those places where the dance prices are set by management.
  • David9999
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    16 years ago
    In at least one club recently when I was awaiting a (temporarily tied up) ATF I was getting hit with a wave of solicitions, and some of these were 2 for 1's - this on day's they are not given - so the dancer's were clearly taking the hit not the club. In another club where I normally only do VIP level sessions with an ATF, there was a new girl just starting my ATF was helping to train in regards to how to peform a high contact grind, so she mentioned the semi-private booths at regular price with her with myself picking up only the 5 dollar per song fee for the 2nd girl. It was very interesting as it ended up four songs with 2 super hot (an 8.5 ATF and 9.0 level) Brazilian dancers, the later one very young, very little english, and having just arrived from Sao Paulo and brand new to both america and strip clubs of any kind
  • SuperDude
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    16 years ago
    Some clubs are reconsidering the idea of the cover charge. Customer will be required to by a dance token at the door, redeemable for one dance. The assumption is that he will by a second dance and now the dancers will be getting at least two dances--on the average--from every guy in the club.
  • DougS
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    16 years ago
    In my favorite club where they recently DOUBLED the price for VIP, I fully expect there to be some price discounting by some dancers. My question is... actually, this is probably a question for the dancers on this board... If dancer A discounts the VIP price - let's say she decides to charge her customers $70/30 min, instead of $100/30 min, doesn't that piss off dancers B, C and D? Surely it would, in my thinking. Of course in order to compete, dancers B, C and D will now have to lower THEIR price, OR provide a whole lot more contact than dancer A. The competition that is generated is good for the customers, but the drama generated may be problematic.
  • Book Guy
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    16 years ago
    Dancer choice: think clearly about major business decisions which affect her life in the long and short runs; or just go with the flow and do whatever is the path of least resistance, comes naturally, and allows her to complain about how the world isn't giving her what she wants.
  • David9999
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    16 years ago
    It would seem that selective discounting by dancers may increase the friction between dancers, however based upon speed reading (1000's) of posts on pink site, I've not seen that as a major issue in recent years, instead its the "extras" issue that really creates the big problem. My guess is that this issue will become increasingly important as the economy gets worse and a possible "War between the dancers" (as I've described it a few months back) starts accelerating. Dancers sitting idle half their shifts will help no one, certainly not the dancers and particularly not the clubs as they are now clearly losing dance fees.
  • MIDancer
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    16 years ago
    >>Dancer choice: sit idle at the bar or discount dance prices...<< Or, find a new job. If I found myself sitting at the bar all night for weeks on end, I'd consider it time to (a) switch clubs or (b) quit dancing.
  • David9999
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    16 years ago
    Switching clubs will notnecessarily work when nearly all the clubs in the region are experiencing a major slowdown. In regards to alternate work 2 major problems: 1, a very high percentage of the foreign born girls have some kind of visa issues (e.g their original visa was for 3 months and they are now on month 37 of their overstay) 2. I've met probably 150 to 200 dancers in the last year of so, and probably have had conversations with 100 or so where they mentioned or brought up their backgrounds and goals in life etc and of a rough guess maybe 3 or 4 were college grads, one or 2 on grad degrees, however most barely finished high, many dropped out of high school - the alternate career paths would be something like hairdressing or low end retail, which is very low pay compared to the equivalent effort with stripping. One exception would be the (very rare 1 out of 100) 10 level dancers, if they give up their independence they can alway dig up a sugar daddy to support them or get into a job where a flawless 10 level face and figure would be useful, e.g certain upscale retail jobs, however their wages will still not approach an equivalent effort in stripping. Its entirely possible even in a deep recession that in markets where strip club entry barriers are high (i.e. few if any new clubs can be built) that a higher quantity of low spending now mostly idle or disemployed customers - might be able to scrape together enough money to buy dances now and then, assuming they do not believe they are getting ripped off.
  • MIDancer
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    16 years ago
    David9999: I have little sympathy for the second group you mention. Perhaps instead of buying designer purses and sports cars, they should've invested in an education. Also, (and I may be in the minority here), I'd take lower wages, harder work and longer hours over stripping for $100 or $150 per night. Perhaps the single most alluring aspect of stripping is the ridiculous amount of money you can walk away with on any given night. If that aspect of stripping disappears, so will many of the dancers. And I guarantee that the ones left won't be the happiest bunch. The best nights are those when you hear the word "yes" more than "no," and the money seemingly falls from the sky into your lap. Once THOSE nights disappear, and stripper morale declines, many will leave, IMO. And I don't doubt the possibility of a major recession. I just don't think it's going to work out in the positive fashion that you think it will: I already overhear girls in the dressing room discussing how to cut their costs and reduce their livings expenses so they can leave the industry. And since when do you hear a stripper talk about CUTTING costs?
  • crizgolfer
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    16 years ago
    MIDancer. I love the post. Your points were well articulated and probably right n the money. I have posted similar questions over on the pink site and the major response is that they would not accept reduced prices. One observation I have made over on the pink site is that may of them live pretty high. You are hearing discussions in the dressing room about cutting costs, but for many of those will they really be able to? I Hear about many nice cars, apartments, etc. These things are not easily sut once you are into them. Would this perhaps keep them from leaving dancing rather than taking the "Wal-Mart job"? Or perhaps taking a job and having to continue dancing?
  • MIDancer
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    16 years ago
    Unfortunately, in most cases, cutting costs means taking a hit first. For example, to break an apartment lease, you may have to pay a month or two's worth of rent while the landlord searches for a new tenant. However, I've seen many girls cut their costs by obtaining a roommate, or selling their brand new luxury car for a used Honda. Not to mention, little things DO add up: nixing the fake nails, fake tan, expensive haircuts, brand name makeup, etc. In short, you won't see girls simply walking out in droves, but you will see many who have never before prepared an exit plan, doing so (enrolling in college or trade school, obtaining experience in another field, etc.).
  • David9999
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    16 years ago
    "And I don't doubt the possibility of a major recession. I just don't think it's going to work out in the positive fashion that you think it will" I actually meant some of the top shelf dancers, (e.g. NFL cheerleader level or better) may perhaps be able to live in a small apartment or if they have a house with an ARM loan bought at the market peak may be able to keep it with a workout with the lenders, however many will have to dump the $50,000 to $55,000 set of wheels they drive around in - one of the my AFTs has both that kind of loan and house bought at the market top, and a set of wheels just like what I've described.
  • David9999
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    16 years ago
    I would agree on the the discount issue relative to the pink site, its more accurate to say its simply not being discussed - simply because most dancers have yet to face this stark reality.
  • minnow
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    16 years ago
    D9999: I observed one thread that has been "active" on SW is the "Moonlight Bunnyranch" thread- eg the possibility of working in a legal brothel. One poster said 1 must do what they gotta do to "survive," adding that she'd paid $1K for a new set of tires on her Infiniti! Not exactly eatin' grilled cheese sandwiches. Time will tell.
  • David9999
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    16 years ago
    Minnow - I was stunned to have an ATF level dancer (a flat out 10 level flawless beauty) tell me she was looking into working as a "dancer" for big money on one of the Nevada ranches, which is on the opposite side of the USA from her northeast locale. Here are some other factors: she apparently was not even aware there were brothels intertwined with all this, and the ranch she mentioned as far as I could tell had no strip club at all, she had been solicited by what she described as an "older woman" she said she trusted (she wouldn't explain in further detail), in the past on 2 or 3 ocassions she's suggested certain outrageous other career options to "test" my reaction as she often claims (nothing this extreme though) and this apparently (while only being tossed out for discussion) was not a test per se it was actually real, her income this year is way down, she has major bills, has half-jokingly asked me if I would be her sugar daddy, and recently asked me (less than half jokingly) if I wanted to "make a baby" with her, (absurd of course) and in fact has very significant ties to the present area she lives in, including multiple kids, extended family, and home ownership. Wild guessing she might be making 30 to 50k as a dancer because she works only half-time, and in her best years she probably made 40 to 80k, however I have absolutely no doubt that this woman would be worth 250k to 500k with full time escorting in a major market like Vegas, or at least 200k in ranch bordello work (she's way beyond any of the the girls on the web site of this ranch, and she could only be matched by top shelf Vegas escorts, meaning she would go out at 500 to 1000 per one hour session), she would be absolutely the top of the scale - however she's simply not a whore, quite the opposite in fact. Her attitude now is that this "older woman" was not telling her the entire story, which is apparently is exactly what occured.
  • shadowcat
    •
    16 years ago
    Nevada strip clubs suck. They have so much competition from the ranches and free style hookers that come into town all of the time, I don't know how they make any money. I know that the casinos will kick a bitch out, if they even suspect her of being a hooker. That is why prostitution is illegal in Clark county.
  • quimby
    •
    16 years ago
    I agree with the previous post that the real Las Vegas is much harder and nastier than the image the image that it has. Tell your ATF to ALWAYS have one or two people with her, that know where she is all the time, and that can raise an instant and effective alarm if need be. Just assume that you are dealing with people who are capable of anything and (given the constant need for money) just might do it... Boffing Asians and Middle East gamblers @ $1000 per night is one thing but you have to be very sure of the people you work with... Making a baby with your David 9999 (would this be David 10000 if it was a boy?) is much easier and much safer..
  • David9999
    •
    16 years ago
    Actually the Nevada issue came up a few months back, and I think she's pretty much figured out what the deal was. I've even asked her at one point why she just didn't cash it in with a (non-married) rich guy, but like many of these ultra top shelf girls (strippers and non-strippers alike) she's a romance junkie too, so she still wants it all, but of course she got sidetracked for a time with the standard broke/loser/abusive stripper b/f deal. In addition her history (one particular guy in the past too) suggests a focus on married guys. Obvious unavailability (like to "make babies") apparently holds some special attraction to her. As far as I can tell her expenses and borrowings are at such a substantial level, she's either going to have to be way more aggressive on her job and the amount of hours she works each week, or quickly find a (non-married) wealthy guy, or probably lose everything. This emerging downturn is going to be a big wake up call for many of these dancers.
  • quimby
    •
    16 years ago
    David9999, I have the same experience that you have regarding how dancers manage money. (and we're haveing discussions about dancer's vocabularies ?) A dancer that I date occasionally is/was under them impression that she was doing fine and that she could manage her money like she had for years... One look at her bills and I am helping her file for bankrupcy... The credit card expenditures in the last 3 years could stock a small country... No matter how long I think about this, I do not understand it...
  • shadowcat
    •
    16 years ago
    quimby. It is not always dancers. When I filed for divorce. It will be 4 years ago on Apr 4th. She had me in $80,000 in credit card debt. In debt consolitation and my credit rating was totally fucked. The house was mine but I had to refinance to buy her out. best rate 10 1/2% and that was with the help of a friend. I now have a zero credit card debt, have restored my credit rating, Have refinanced on a 15 year fixed at 5 1/4% with no points. I now owe $126 on a house appraised at $240. I recently gave my daughter $10,000 to buy a new car and still have $30,000 left in my checking account. And now that I am drawing full SS retirement pay, nothing has ever looked rosier. A year ago I gave an ATF $1000.00 with no strings attached. She has made me proud. She is now going through EMS school. I hope that if I ever need medical help in Colunbia, that she is the one who responds. I hope that she remembers where my dick is. LOL...
  • quimby
    •
    16 years ago
    Thanks, Shadowcat, I am glad that your were able to dig yourself out - my only explanation with how these women sleep soundly at night with their astronomical debt levels is that there must some wiring in the brain missing; these women have no ability to see the relationship between wild spending and poverty... (w/o getting too personal, how will your ex get by ? )
  • funtimes2bhad
    •
    16 years ago
    I frequent a club close to home. The club takes the money upfront, whether it's cash or credit for the VIP room. Girls are left to decide if they will discount the private room. Most won't because they don't have problems with it. But, we're in the midwest, and the regional recession that the country is/will be experiencing seems to have affected us only slightly.
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