Comments by Book Guy (page 13)

We're doing pretty well here in New Orleans, there are some locations that can boast near fifty years as burlesque / hootchie-kootchie / strip clubs. The out-of-the-way neighborhood-y club "where the locals go" has been a stripper joint (under two names, or maybe three) since the early 1990s (IIRC). There have been a few major changes in the overall scene, due to factors entirely outside the control of management or ownership -- hurricane, new by-laws about smoking indoors, f.e..

I have difficulty distinguishing among the various rejection and/or unavailability signals. For example: A. Is it me? Am I undesirable and she's looking for other types of guys as customers? I would like to know why, so that I can adjust whatever is necessary, though I'm of course not expecting such a type of constructive feedback at strip clubs. B. Is it her? Is she presently not giving dances to anyone at all? Maybe a sugar-daddy is coming in? C. Or is it just not right now, but will be fine in a little bit of time? She needs a drink, she needs to get warmed up, she needs to cool down, she needs her security guard to get out of the loo? In some cases I would be willing to chase after her later (or soon) if she does not disapprove. In other cases she would probably disapprove. But because I don't know which case is which, I tend to err on the side of caution, by simply interpreting any (all) stand-off behavior as indication of rejection for the entirety of her shift. Depending on the club, this can be fine for the girls (tons of other money-making opportunity). Or can be a total loss of income, because it does usually turn out that I'm willing to spend when and if I do get warmed up, but the warming up has to come in significant part from the dancer. I'm fine with approaching, but if she's playing hard to get, in fact too hard to get, so hard to get that nobody gets her, then that's her mistake.

Had to Google for "Kitty Genovese" LOL

My tastes differ ... :P

Geez, the closest I got to strippers who clean, was one who recently said she charges $80 an hour to help declutter. (Is "declutter" a euphemism for giving a handjob?) So she says, the company that does this mostly gets hired after someone in the family dies. A crew go into the house, trash everything that can't be sold, arrange for furniture and kitchen implement donations, put everything viable on E-Bay, leave the place entirely empty, and charge the $80 (usually takes ten days with five people, so that's a neat $4000 for the whole house) and take an additional 40% of any E-Bay sale, and return or keep the items that don't sell, probably to re-sell again in another season. It sounded like a great arrangement to me, my parents are both borderline-hoarders, certainly pack-rats if not actual "buried alive" types, and I'm going to be stuck cleaning up after them when they're gone some day.

On the one hand, I think autism and ADHD are over-diagnosed nowadays. A few years back, everybody who had a problematic relationship with a parent called that parent "Narcissistic." Didn't matter if the parent was a shy retiring type who utterly hated their own visual appearance (or, in a ton of other ways, displayed non-Narcissistic behaviors), still the internet-diagnosis as "you are the child of a Narcissistic parent." Similarly, I feel we're now claiming everyone who has a hard time holding down a regular office-bound job must be ADHD and that impulsive irresponsible behavior always counts as "on the spectrum." Most dancers, IMO, probably suffer from something, but the prevalence of ADHD among them is probably no higher or lower than in the general population. On the other hand, some of it seems to fit. I've learned a great deal about ADHD because I've been, at various times, diagnosed with it, though I think (at least, at this juncture) it's inaccurate, and at various other times I've been diagnosed as absolutely not having it. As with many things psychological, most of the diagnosis hinges on self-assessment questionnaires and "inventories" of behavior, so the subjective element can't ever really be eliminated. For dancers, some of it fits -- generally, I think, they're stimulus-seekers, they're probably impulsive, they're uninterested in regular or routine or reliable activities, they can report that their day consists of being in surroundings with bright twinkly lights and loud banging music more often than most people, they don't complete long-term educational projects or fulfill other typical young-adult life-goals as much as many other segments of the population, they're oriented to kinaesthetic (rather than auditory or visual) stimuli, they're impulsive, generally they appear to lack adequate executive function. Some of what I like about strip clubs fulfills my ADHD diagnoses -- the bright lights and the loud music, the short-term and hyper-focused accomplishment of goals (pussy!) rather than the more usual longer-term care-driven and intermittent approach, the extremely shallow and disposable but highly stimulating human interaction, the major sensory impact, the fact that the behavior somehow "feels wrong" but also "feels good" in a way that my own mental executive department cannot override (see recent TUSCL thread on subject of whether or not strip-clubbing might be an addiction). Strip clubbing is a high-stimulus endeavor which gives immediate sensory feedback and does not generally attach an accomplishment-type reward (promotion, recognition, higher grades, peer esteem) to planning or goal-setting. There's not much of a way to upgrade your status or improve your experience by having a three-point plan of action and a set of goals which you divide into sub-goals; rather, the experience is likely to be positive (or negative) on the basis of a one-tier approach without goal or sub-goal setting. I think for me the part where an ADHD diagnosis does fit, is with my disappointment in having a regular job. Observers who are unfamiliar with neurodivergence (or simply scoff at the idea) would say that I, and people like me, simply fail to buckle down and put our big-boy pants on for the purposes of the workplace. But people with my type of neurodivergence (if indeed I do have it) would counter, that although we do know that neurotypical people are also applying a great deal of effort to their own workplace experiences, the effort required of us to have the same level of compliance and accomplishment is actually much greater, to an insurmountable degree. It's just impossible. I have overcome (some) typical workplace challenges through a variety of work-arounds, many of which would be addressing issues similar to what workplace accommodations would address. But mostly, what I've done is live outside conventional norms. I apply a good support system, with family to fall back on, and my own natural talent for schoolwork to the act of getting more and more education (and yes, my procrastination is a major impediment, but by hook and crook and innate recall I have gotten higher degrees even though I delayed many major projects), something which many dancers may be unable to do. I was born male, but my interest in physical fitness when I was younger probably would have put me in the physical category able to be a stripper if I had been female; my parents, not a broken home, directed my energies elsewhere; the girls I meet at strip clubs have neither of those life circumstances. For anyone who thinks ADHDers need to simply try harder, here's a metaphor. It's not like telling Steph Curry to practice jumping more and more and some day, if he puts in the proper effort, he too will be able to dunk a basketball without help. Rather, it's like telling Bill Shoemaker, Laffit Pinkay, or Peter Dinklage, that they just aren't trying hard enough and that's why they can't dunk a basketball without using a trampoline.

Personally I'm not familiar with Atlanta clubs (Follies? , this one Vivide) but I do know that going as far as fucking on the main floor isn't all that uncommon. There's a special thrill to it. The "chair forts" at Treasures (Houston TX) f.e. are legendary and I've availed myself of them several times. Is Treasures still offering that type of ... fortification? Har :)

When I was younger and regularly attending, I was also regularly feeling guilty about attending. Now that I am older, I look back and simply think, "I shouldn't have felt so guilty." Nicotine and alcohol have more detrimental effects. I like pussy. I don't think I'm "addicted" any more than I am addicted to food, air, water, shelter, clothing. Not addicted, though I do use them all regularly, because I entered this world as a being who is made up of mammalian male heterosexual genetics. I suppose that if I had all that money back, I could have invested it at a decent rate and made a healthy return. The thing is, that wasn't guaranteed at the time and I suspect I would simply have frittered it away in other non-investment pursuits like restaurant dining or getting fancier cars. Over the course of my mongering career, indulging a regular mongering and strip-clubbing "habit" since the late 1980s, I suspect I haven't spent enough to make or break me. I didn't spend any money on children or wives during that time, so perhaps this is my replacement expenditure. How much did it all add up to? Maybe $100,000.oo? $200? I could do the math I suppose ... My biggest regrets are, as also suggested by @rattdog, not getting more from particular girls. The ones that got away, either because I was a bit stand-offish at the time, or because I'd just been with someone else, or because I foolishly told myself to wait for a while, or whatever other reason. I can picture some of them quite specifically, from as long ago as twenty years, and I still say to myself "drat! shoulda coulda woulda" about them. Let's see now. So. The youthful-looking one, who actually was wiser and older than her appearance, but with a cute round face and a pixie haircut, recently in from (so she said) Lithuania, at a Russians-mostly club North of Toronto named Fantasia where there were no rules. Firm body, youthful but curvy, small breasts, firm high ass. We chatted so many times over several visits to the club, but I never ever took her back to a booth. Why oh why not? I don't know what my excuse was. Or. The stunningly curvaceous Cubana who was at the side-stage right when I first walked in to Diamond Dolls Pompano on my first visit ever to that club. Swarthy, naturally well titted, nipples jutting through a negligee, and the breasts rose and fell still firm without sag, her skin swarthy, with smooth shiny black hair and matching eyes, but stupid me! I thought it had to be a loss-leader, she was at the front, too good to be true, I hadn't scoped the joint yet. Or. The real ballerina in Texas. Full high standing splits, one leg straight below her with the other leg straight above her, knee to her face, she appeared eight feet tall in her platforms, and she all but explained that this is how she would lean into my cock by means of that split position, so she said breathily while gently kissing my ear and nibbling my lower lip on the main floor. Her price was reasonable but I didn't have cash on me, hadn't brought my ATM card, would have had to use club funny-money on a credit card so I let the big head do the thinking and turned her down. Pretty face, pert near-flat breasts, smattering of abs, pale almost lily-white skin with downy peach-fuzz (anorexic?) along the small of her back. I should have let the little head do the thinking. Or. Late late late one night in (IIRC?) Houston, a dancer asked me for a ride home. Sweet bashful African-American young lady, new to dancing, didn't want to spend money on a cab and I was going her way back to my hotel. She was sweaty from stage exertion, with droplets on her temples. We got to her apartment high-rise and I didn't even blink, just let her out of the car. Doh. Must have been in a stupor. I can still see her quizzical facial expression but she didn't actually speak of anything, just walked away ... forever. Or. A favorite at my local, who always got along so well with me that she would engage in more-than-allowed in any of the private booths, all without prompting, all without extra price. She'd just say "I don't know why I'm so into it with you, but it's great" and I could see that she was flushed and hot with exertion and delight. (Or she's a great actress, I don't care which.) Regularly hinted at OTC opportunities. Regularly I missed the hints. Eventually she stopped dancing, haven't seen her for about a decade now, though I still hope when I go back to the same club. I have saved the website pictures of her, which are no longer up on the internet but are available forever on my PL hard drive. As I said recently (and it got good response so now I'm quoting myself in my limited repertoire because that's what PLs do) "You young kids, don't neglect your poundage opportunities, you never know when you won't have any more."

To the OP, for me it's understood, that you want a translation of what the statements in reviews mean, and that you're not trying to pin your interpretation of any particular behaviors or judgments onto the group. I think different review writers will have different assumptions, of course, but I also think you're probably reading it mostly right. My first experience with Cuban nationals (not referring to people of Cuban extraction who mostly grew up in the USA; referring instead to citizens of the nation of Cuba, who grew up there, who culturally exhibit traits from there, but who now are traveling to the USA to work as strippers) was at the full-service clubs in Pompano Beach. Around 2015 or there-abouts. Now in 2024 I find that some Cuban nationals are appearing in some New Orleans strip clubs. Haven't really been clubbing in other cities much during that time. In Pompano I found them to be extras-focused, service-oriented, reliable but impersonal. They operated in a manner designed to corral a customer for a specific service, generally full service in a private booth, which they performed efficiently and for a reasonable fee as agreed upon. There was not much (not any!) up-selling, there was general trustworthiness, but there was also a very low degree of interpersonal flirtation. I speak some small amount of Spanish, but I found that this didn't really matter. They were all business. The reliable level of service could be refreshing. Among my other experiences in clubs in the USA, there might seem to be greater risk of rip-off, in the form of a promise of more than is given even though more is paid for. So it's more patently reliable from the Cubans. But also, I found the Cuban directness a bit dispiriting. I began to realize, by comparison, that one of the experiences which I value in a strip club, is the continual ongoing flirtation. I want a dancer to slowly warm me up, and to act like she and I are having a mutually enjoyable interaction. I want that we share funnies together, she maybe leans against me on the main floor, we fondle each other a bit, that kind of thing. The glossary calls some of this Stripper Shit, but defines it mostly negatively. I like it mostly positively. I found that interactivity entirely lacking among the Cubans at Pompano. This fact might be due to the specific club, not the nationality, but the style of club and dancer had to have gone at least partly hand-in-hand. Of course I'm generalizing here. The more of them that arrive, the greater the variety will be.

I say Toronto. Ticks all your boxes, as Dolfan says. In Toronto mongering up to and including full-service is pretty much legal, the strip clubs near the airport are well clustered so you can hit several, the exchange rate is pretty strong in favor of US right now (you gain a bit of buying power by traveling from US to Can). See reviews to check prices, but I think you can probably assume the costs will be the same (or because of exchange, marginally better). It's a huge city (just below 6 million) so there's everything to do -- cultural institutions, party zones, brew-pubs, all the major professional sports, ice hockey hall of fame, clean sparkling steel-and-glass skyscrapers and mega-tall CN Tower, also late-19th-Century run-down trendy gentrifying neighborhoods with restaurants, entirely more safe and sane than most of USA's cities. Also nice outdoor green spaces, the geography is criss-crossed by ravines that are mostly (extremely well maintained!) public parks. Plenty of airports in USA have direct flights to YYZ Toronto Pearson International. Best to have a passport, and make sure to find a good place (probably not at the airport) to exchange cash. Pro tip: maybe keep a ton of US $1 bills for stripper tipping, the Canadian one-dollar and two-dollar denominations are coins. Second choice Fort Lauderdale. The Miami gridlock is not much worse than Toronto. And the heat and humidity will probably be about equally unbearable in both cities, if you're there any time from now to September. @gammanu95 I agree, the "Libtards" like myself ruin strip clubs. I think the root of this is their idea that the best state is a paternalistic state, maximizing regulation in order to (supposedly) "help the underprivileged" (including women). [[ BTW I am derogating myself here. I am a hard-core Left Wing voter, generally, and on boards like this I call myself a "Progressive" (I would prefer the Scandinavian model for our economy and social safety net, generally speaking). But, I freely admit it, those regulations which all but put strip clubs out of business are DEFINITELY a down side of my otherwise preferred politics. ]] It sometimes doesn't make sense. Places which are SO dang pro-feminist that they practically legalize prostitution (f.e Vancouver, Portland), you would think, should have good strip clubs to go with that. But generally those places have a miserable strip-club scene. If there were a TUSCL bottom 40 I suspect that liberal cities like Boston MA and Portland OR and Austin TX would be among the leaders right along with Salt Lake City UT and other traditionally restrictive places. Generally speaking, of course -- you can always find an out-lier.

Pass. Not appealing to me at all.

I'm also not sure what MrMonger's flex is supposed to be, or what instigated his aggro. Why is he denigrating the dude who shared info with us? Serious chip-on-shoulder syndrome. Anyway, to Schmoe31415, thanks for the info. I was considering a monger's trip to Atlanta for this club (and a few others) in particular. It's now officially on delay but I'll keep my eye on the reviews and discussion. An aside, it's not so easy to harass via police. "Annoyance by cop" is often a bad play. I'm pretty sure that excess phone calls to the police can, eventually, be acted against, perhaps pro-actively by the police themselves. Depending on the location, there are laws against filing frivolous or false police reports, etc.. It would be up to a Georgia lawyer, prosecutor, officer of the law, etc., to know the proper specifics for this situation. But, just generally speaking, doing the sort of thing that this vindictive individual is doing is really not worth it. Best that can happen for her, in my estimation, is that the club is put on annoyance-watch like it is now, for about three months. What else can she possibly get out of it? To the contrary, what she's risking is being put on public record. The cops might want to use her info to make real arrests, presuming that her accusations do pan out for them; in which case she would be identified as a complaining witness and might (again, depends on location and specific of the case) even be required to testify as to why she had her suspicions. "Well, judge, I knew they were letting the girls blow the customers because of what it tasted like" doesn't go down well in open court. Or the cops might want her to back down and stop wasting their under-funded resources for her own petty rivalries, so they might visit her to see if they could get real specifics out of her, in which case her lifestyle and choices around her own home will be under their scrutiny. Look up "plain view doctrine" if you think it's not a risk to invite the police into your home when you're an extras-provider ...

Since this has become a discussion I'll chime in further. First, I didn't know that the Celtic cross and the broken cross sun were neo-Nazi symbols but the ADL website says they're of the "most important." Pity, I'm of Celtic heritage and like the idea of wearing some symbol or other that sardonically might identify me as "anti-British-Empire" and pro-Scottish or pro-Irish but I don't want to be neo-Nazi. I guess it'll have to be that leprechaun guy they use at Notre Dame ... Second, here's a Youtube video about the history of a style of tattoo that they're calling "ig" for "ignorant." The tattoos are done deliberately poorly. Yup, you heard me. Anyway, the guy who did the video story is named "Struthless" and is an OK presenter. He's not trying to defend the idea of the tattoos being done deliberately poorly, but it is at least fair info that there is a sub-culture out there that is, indeed, going out of their way to look "ignorant." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITxAS6OaCxE

Just saw my comments in this thread from LITERALLY SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/279/921/796.jpg

But I always regret NOT going out. I didn't, this past weekend. On Friday and Saturday I scheduled some free time, but just didn't feel like going, so I didn't. Now that it's Sunday night I really feel like going to a strip club. The clubs here are interesting on weekends, but generally deserted on Sundays and really don't merit much effort on weekdays either.

"Marco" on her ass, tramp-stamp style. Which, she explains, is her five-year-old son. Riiiiight ...

Let the word get out that you're not very outgoing. Tell one or two dancers at the tip-rail, that you are the sort of guy who wants to really be approached in a serial manner by every dancer in the house. Each dancer has her own clique of friends, so if you communicate this notion to a suitable cross-section of clique membership, you'll be identified as someone who is not going to be super-rejection-heavy. Beware. This strategy has the obvious disadvantage of causing all the dancers in the house to assume that you want them to approach you. Generally speaking, each end of the spectrum has advantages and disadvantages. If you hate it when any girl approaches, and you send that vibe, on the occasion when the super-hottie whom you wanted to approach ends up ignoring you, then you have only yourself to blame. If you hate approaching and want every girl to do the approaching, on the occasion when the dogtrot messengers whom you wanted to ignore you end up approaching, then you again have only yourself to blame. In fact, the please-approach-me vibe is not unusual in a strip club. That's part of the appeal for men, we are less expected to take the initiative and at least some of the onus is put onto the women. This is unlike at civilian meet-ups where the social expectations are, that any male who fails to approach is by definition both a bad catch and bad at catching (neither of which is logically a necessary conclusion, but we socially assume them anyway). Additionally, I might add, one of the main reasons I end up chasing after some women in strip clubs, is in order to avoid other women. In a room of twenty quasi-hot women and five uggs, I'll probably corral one of the quasi-hotties as self-protection. The uggs are going to be the most pro-active about approaching. And, in line with the male social-expectation (see above) they will often, quite wrongly, assume that because they are being forward and pro-active, they are therefore defining themselves are more desirable. Problem is, it doesn't generally work that way (at least not for me). When a dorky male becomes an approach-monster dorky male in a civilian club, he generally is accomplishing at least a mild reduction in his undesirability merely by the fact of making an approach. "Points for confidence," the girls say to themselves. To the contrary, when a visually unappealing female becomes an approach-monster visually unappealing female (in a civilian OR strip club) she is not generally accomplishing a mild reduction in her undesirability. Instead, by the fact of making an approach, she is probably becoming MORE undesirable, generally speaking. "Even more loss of points for arrogant self-congratulation in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary," the boys say to themselves. It's the "fat girl in mini-skirt that was designed for skinny girl" phenomenon. Sure, some guys give positive points to the ugg because of her chutzpah, but that's pity points, IMO. Just some thoughts. You may disagree. Approaching strippers is really quite easy. Reach out and touch someone.

Pass. Annoyingly self-congratulatory personality, much too large and wallowing for my preferences. Theoretically I can see the appeal, according to other guys' tastes, but this is exactly counter to my own tastes. Well wait, come to think of it, in a rare fantasy I might want to denigrate and use her, smash her mercilessly, make her actually feel the good pain of being "taken for all it's worth" without quarter, wipe my dick on the curtain on my way out and leave her whimpering. That's a fantasy. The few times I've done that (or, tended toward doing that) with a partner, I haven't liked doing it even though it might have satisfied her desire for being dominated and even though before-the-fact it seemed like a good idea. But just to make this Vergara thing shut the fuck up and stop talking about how great and all-powerful she is, maybe yes, I'd want to smash her in that manner. Maybe. But I'm not sure it would actually ever shut her up, though ...

I think I'm with wallanon on this one, it's about my energy not hers, but the right girl will solve that. The chicken egg conundrum. I think my experience sometimes is, that although I'm WILLING to try to put my game-face on, so I attend the club even though I'm not really desiring to go very badly, what happens is, ALSO I don't meet any girls who really make me want to put my game face on. Back in the late 90s there were enough super-hotties at any club you went to, that I could personally be almost assured of having the "oh boy I just gotta have her" experience in my own mind. Now that's not the case. I'm arriving in a moderately disinterested mood, therefore unlikely to put much positive energy into it, but with the hopes that the dancer themselves will be of high enough quality that they pique my interest and therefore cause me to increase my positive energy. I want them to instigate me. But they just aren't doing it for me. Maybe I simply need better clubs with better dancers.

I must be getting old. I'm almost 60, is this what it's going to be like from here on out? You young kids, don't neglect your poundage opportunities, you never know when you won't have any more.

I guess I'm just stupid. The comment, "Welcome to the TUSCL remake of "Alien versus Predator"" doesn't make any sense to me.

Pregnant is a turn-off for me. I guess that's a niche market, but I could see the dancers making money exploiting that niche. Lactating is worse than a turn-off for me, it's a disgust-generator. Blecch. I instinctively don't want to see that going on in a club where I am. I would get freaked out and probably leave.

Hellzyeah

I like my women like I like my bank, constantly fucking me all the time at only thirty-five cents per transaction.

I think generally I prefer ITC. I haven't done the usual OTC arrangement, of (a) meeting the girl at a club and then (b) setting up an appointment outside the club. I have done some "spur of the moment" OTC-type setups, f.e. (1) I was in the club most of the evening and until closing time, and my favorite-for-the-night dancer simply suggested I drive her home and we take it from there. (2) A club that had a hotel across the street, and I ended up recognizing one dancer in that hotel's parking lot, and she was just deciding whether to do afternoon or evening shift (so she said) so I occupied her afternoon for a reasonable fee, leaving her free to earn more in the evening after I was gone. I viewed (2) as simply saving on the club's entry price :) . As far as numbers for ANY set of a providers, whether ITC or OTC or non-strippers, including internet call-girls, street-walkers, window-girls, brothel girls ... I think the most I've ever gone with one girl would probably be four, maybe five times, over the course of about two months. She was in Amsterdam in the "covered area" (La Vie en Rose, just off Oude Kerk) in the 2010 time-range or so. I saw other window-girls in Amsterdam and other cities intermittently between sessions with her, as well. The data suggest I am a variety seeker, but this one both (i.) ticked all the boxes among my physical and interpersonal preferences, and (ii.) was a very reliable provider and sensible business-woman, in that she enabled me to have liaisons with other women at her suggestion, all of them "pre-vetted" and excellent experiences, as well as enabling me to have liaisons with her. Procuress and provider, and the skill at procuring simply enhanced her opportunities for providing. I recall her well -- tiny, a spinner with hard abs, she had fake tits which I could not determine were fake because they were underneath such plush padding, really remarkably perfectly built (for me). After our first session she allowed all the no-no's that you can't usually get with the average window-girl, which simply enhanced my desire to return.