Comments by FONDL (page 36)

AN, I took the test and came out remarkably similar to you. My top pick was John McCain, and my bottom 3 were Hillary, Obama, and Dodd (he was last.) I didn't think much of the test either because it left out a couple of questions which I deem to be most important. But if I had to choose today I'd probably go with McCain because I think he's the least devisive candidate out there and that's what we need. But his chances of getting the nomination are neer zero, he's been around too long and doesn't excite anyone including me. So as usual we're likely to get a choice between an ultra-liberal and an ultra-conservative. Which is really sad because I think most people would prefer a moderate.

At this point I have no idea who I'm going to vote for, but I hope I get a chance to vote for someone who isn't currently on the list. I think the present crop is just about the weakest group we've ever had run for the office. My prediction, which I made here about 2 years ago, is that Hillary will win because I think she's the most skilled politician of the group, just like her husband was. I also think she'll be extremely devisive, that domestic terrorism will re-emerge during her presidency, and that the R's will make big gains during her presidency.

I'm never quite sure what "bikini club" means - eg. in PA all clubs that serve alcohol require the girls to wear pasties, does that make them bikini clubs? If so I don't mind them at all, some are quite good, and it's amazing how often those pasties accidently fall off. The alternative is the all-nude BYOB clubs, of which there aren't very many and most of them are quite seedy. So I tend to prefer the bikini clubs. I also prefer the girls to have bottoms on because I think most of them look better that way.

I think the thing that irritates me most is girls who don't make much effort to be good at their jobs - things like not being in shape, or not making an effort to be pleasant and fun to be with. I never understand this - don't they realize why guys are there, why some girls make a lot more than others do? All it takes is effort so why is that so often missing?

I've never seen a problem for customers. I used to hang out in a predominately white club located in an area with a large black population that hired very few black dancers, presumably to keep from becoming a predominately black club. They still got a lot of black customers but most of them were older and pretty upscale. The girls loved them because they spent a lot. There also used to be a lot of young Hispanic guys who'd arrive in groups and sit at the tip rail and never tip. It really pissed off the girls but the manager never did anything about it as far as I know. This place had a fairly high entrance fee but was otherwise pretty inexpensive, presumably to keep out the riff-raff. It didn't work, they just figured the high fee meant they didn't have to tip.

rr30, you don't have to go very far outside of DC to find contact. Showcase Theater just outside the beltway in MD would be the closest and there are lots of other places in both MD and WV within an hour or so drive. When I was in DC I was a regular at both McDoogals and Choo Choo's. Forget northern Virginia though, the rules are similar to DC. None of these places are super high contact though, if that's your thing you have to do the Baltimore Block. The lack of contact in DC may be why the escort and bodyrub businesses are thriving.

If a girl joins me without my asking her to do so, then she sits and talks for awhile before asking if I want a dance, I don't see where that obligates me to buy some dances. As others have pointed out, she's the one who decided how long to talk before asking. I always buy dances from a girl who I ask to join me, but not usually from the ones who I didn't ask.

If I really like a girl I enjoy touching her. A back rub is one way to do that. Foot rubs are another.

Only one time stands out. I tried out a new dancer in a club I had frequented numerous times where I always got good dances, but this new girl started giving me an air dance. I tried gently moving her closer and she didn't like it. I don't think she lasted very long. Other than that I've told a couple of dancers that I preferred them to face me, which they then generally did, but that's about it.

Sorry, CasualGuy, I didn't mean to pick on you. I'm just getting tired of all the talk here about having sex in clubs and the assumption that it's what we're all looking for. IMO clubs where sex acts are common aren't strip clubs at all, they're brothels pretending to be strip clubs and they're places that I've always avoided. I've never had any interest in having sex with a stripper, either the fantasy or the reality, and I don't understand what the attraction is. And I'm beginning to think that makes me unique here.

Chandler, I guess I don't take this topic (or many of the others either for that matter) quite as seriously as you obviously do. I thought the first post was in jest, therefore I've been responding in kind. Sorry if that annoys you.

Book Guy, my take on it is a little different. A lot of these girls have been on their own and self-supporting from a pretty early age, and are therefore more mature in a practical sense than the typical girl their age. But they also haven't been exposed to as broad a variety of experiences (eg. travel) and thus don't know about a lot of things that we often take for granted. That's the mix that I've always found both curious and charming.

If she's attractive (young, reasonably fit, cute, nice smile, friendly manner) the level of attraction I feel is determined by (a) how lonely (or horney) I am and (b) how much alcohol I've consumed.

Casualguy, speak for yourself. I think we have a mix here of guys who (1) are trying to get as much as they can sexually from strippers and (2) guys who have different interests. Those of us who belong to the second group avoid the brothels and prefer the real strip clubs.

"... old men's obsession with bad girls." Who me? We don't date these girls, nor do most of us want to. In fact I thought we had decided elsewhere that the whole point of strip clubs is that we could play with bad girls but not get personally involved with them. Plus my ATF is now a good girl, she grew up.

Chandler, this topic has drifted around so much that I totally lost track of the original subject. I have no idea what advice either you or I gave Doug. Or what the question was. I was simply commenting on what others have written. And if I do remember correctly, I was being facetious somewhere early on. But in restrspect I like my point that the girls on SW tend to talk in generalities and we here tend to focus on the exceptions to those generalities. I think there's some truth there, but then I guess that's a generality, isn't it.

Seems to me that dating bad boys is predominately a high school thing, that most girls outgrow that phase by their early 20s or so. It's a sign of maturity, the girls who don't outgrow it are the immature ones. Or they've put themselves in an environment where that's all they ever meet. Like a lot of strippers. One of the things that I've often noticed is how very mature some strippers seem in some respects and how very immature they are in other respects. It's puzzling. It can also be very charming.

Seems to me that the exceptions to the generalizations are what this discussion board is all about. I talk about the girl who made an exception and became my friend. Shadowcat talks about the girls who make exceptions and give him a special price and extra service. Others talk about their experiences with girls OTC, or ask where they can find exceptions of one sort or another, how they can improve their odds, what clubs offer exceptions. That's what this board is all about. And that's where we differ from the pink site. They pretend the exceptions don't exist, that no girls make exceptions. Or they trash the girls who do and the customers who look for the exceptions. They talk the generalizations, we talk the exceptions.

Chandler, I'm not sure what you're talking about but here's some examples of what I mean. Generalization: dancers are in it just for the money. Generalization: if there's money involved, it's strictly a business transaction. Generalization: dancers don't much care for their customers. I agree with every one of these generalizations. I've also known exceptions to every one of them. In fact I think one of the pleasures of strip clubbing is looking for the girl who is the exception - it's what I always try to do. We make generalizations because they help us to understand how our world works without us having us to rethink about every situation from scratch every time it arises. But things are rarely as simple as generalizations make them out to be; life is messy. People are rarely one thing, they are many things, often conflicting things.

Let's not confuse strip clubs with brothels here. Many brothels pretend to be strip clubs (and many guys here seem to prefer such places) and maybe strippers are disappearing from such places. But there are still plenty of strippers working in the real strip clubs and there probably always will be.

No problem Shadowcat, we all get that way sometimes. Just one other thought - as I'm sure you've noted, I happen to think that most of the characteristics that we attribute to strippers are the result of the fact that they're young girls and they're human. I don't need to go to strip clubs regularly to be an expert on human nature and young girls. In fact I often think that we'd have a better chance of understanding them if we forgot that they're strippers and just focused on the fact that they're young girls and often from poor backgrounds.

Chandler, we all tend to see what we want to see. That's my generalization for today.

Shadowcat, you know I'll be there if at all possible, I'd love to meet you and Bones and whoever else can make it. But in fairness to me, I never asked you to set this up, you did that on your own. I appreciate the jesture and hope I can make it. But that's something over which I have no control, family obligations come first. And as far as by being an expert even though I haven't been to a club in 2 years goes, I'm of the opinion that the more things change the more they stay the same. When I was traveling on business I'd often hit a club, then not visit again for several years. And I never noticed any changes, it was like they were all in a time warp. I know I'm in the minority here but I don't think there have been any significnt changes in strip clubs in 20 years or more. You go in, buy a beer and naked women try to extract money from you. It's been like that for a long long time. The players change but the game remains the same. As for me talking about my ATF, I'd do that anyway because I enjoy it, she's very special to me. And I still see her regularly, just not in a club anymore. And I'm glad of that, I'm glad that she's moved on with her life. I'd rather get a massage than an LD from her anyway. You should try it sometime.