How to date a stripper...

Thing is, if you just SIT THERE waiting for the girl to approach, and then for HIM the girl hands him the number, but for ME she doesn't, I need to CHANGE my approach and he doesn't. Just sitting there never worked for me.

So why does a guy who appears im Michigan's Most Eligible magazine spending so much time in a strip club trying to pick up strippers?

This is the famous davids advice. Go to strip clubs to not spend money and to pick up strippers, I'm sure you've seen it before on old threads since you actually posted at the height of the davids discussions in the fall of 2005 that you'd tried the above method as your proven technique ( tuscl.com ). Me, I've had this discussion. Anyone interested go to tuscl.com and read the davids or other posts going forward. There are also some others going back in time.

Basically, we did this topic to death and a lot of those who were posting at that time will be rather suspicious of you DougS, and rather reluctant to start this discussion back up.

Removing the money and her still seeing you doesn't necessarily tell you anything, as women routinely hang out with and sometimes even have sex with (attentive, sincere, monogamous (except sc patrons), honest, non-controlling "nice guys" - in between jerks that is

Many women never outgrow their innate desire to have the hots for the bad guys, it can last well into their 30s or longer. Such ingrained biological drives are very hard to change. For single guys the best strategy is to adopt (at least) some of the bad boy behaviors and attitudes.

As for your friend when he was single (at one point) wanting to date strippers - I have to question his sanity. There is a very very small percent of strippers who can keep the business from screwing them up, howeever for most I don't think this is the case. One has to wonder why as a single guy he wanted to date strippers anyways, except for some kind of thrill

I guess my view is:

1. Why on earth would I want to date a stripper when I can rent one?

2. I don't have time to waste sitting at a table bored and waiting for my mark to happen along. I go in, grab the one I want, and get to it.

3. I don't go into a restaurant, try to be charming hoping they'll eventually feed me. I go in, order what I want, pay a fair price for it. A strip club isn't much different.

A stripper fuck-buddy is one thing - done that a few times - but date? Why?

Never understood the appeal.

O.

Concerning strippers that offer free biz to certain customers, I ran a question of this type past my ATF a while back and she gave me the following response: Once a month or so a man will come into the club that is far better looking than the average man or the average customer. The girls immediately know this type of man does not come into a strip club to buy dances, because he can walk into about any bar and receive attention or sex or whatever he wants for free. The girls know this, and if they are bored at work that day or interested in sacrificing some business to take a chance they can date or sleep with this type of guy, they will approach him, knowing all along he will never purchase dances. Or, they will leave him alone and attend to business. In other words, 99% of us members subscribing to this site are probably already labeled by strippers (the strippers we consider to be 8, 9, or 10's) as someone that is not as good looking as they are and need to pay money if we want their company or to get a grind.

Doug, consider doing what the guy did in the story posted on the Pink Site under the string "I fired my regular". According to that posting, if you get cheap on her she will "fire" you and you will understand if she is greedy or sincere about you.

DougS, my advice to you is DO NOT attempt to remove money from the equation with your ATF. If you are helping her in a time of need, and then stop doing so, she will resent it and resent you. The only way you can stop is if someday she no longer needs that help. If you care about this girl, stop worrying that money is part of the attraction, just keep doing what you've been doing, as long as you can afford it and are enjoying it.

My ATF used to have another older gentleman friend similar to me. She tried to keep the friendship going after she quit her club (where she had been waitressing) because she really liked this guy. But he was concerned that she expeced him to continue giving her money and made a point of telling her that. That ended their relationship. And she still talks about him sometimes because she really liked him.

All relationships are based on people filling each other's needs. If you are filling a need for someone else, then choose to no longer do so, you stand a very good chance of ending the relationship, regardless of what that need happens to be. Once you start filling someone's need, that becomes an integral part of your relationship. You can't change the rules in the middle of the game.

I want a stripper fuck-buddy. How to please?

Book Guy, that one is easy. Find a girl who is unattached and needs money and isn't making a lot because she's a little lacking. Become her best customer. Complain that you don't like going to the club because they get too much of your money and you'd rather give it to her OTC. Buy condoms.

I believe this shows the folly of thinking you have anything other than a business relationship when you're paying a stripper for her time or just giving her money "to help her out". It's a self-deception to think that, because the payment is fuzzy and not quid pro quo, you might have "something more" going on. Quid pro quo can actually make it more possible, not less. Since I only pay the going rate for a less than insane number of dances, whatever we do at other times may still be influenced by money, but it's not dictated by it. The money is dependent on the dances she does or doesn't do, not her companionship.

Chandler, I think the problem with both your and my generalizations about this is that these girls are all somewhat different and each relationship with them is different. Yes there are important generalizations that we should all be aware of, but like any generalization, there are always exceptions. And that's what makes it interesting. Three cheers for the exceptions.

FONDL, I'm not aware of a problem because I don't know of any credible exceptions to the principle I expressed. That would have to be something on the order of a virgin birth. If a guy enjoys believing in it, I don't mean to knock it, but it's still folly.

Chandler, we all tend to see what we want to see. That's my generalization for today.

Yes, that would certainly explain how a guy could pay a girl to spend time with him and fail to see the obvious.

I have one favorite dancer that told me that she would have lunch or dinner with me OTC if I paid her for her time. Fat chance. She is also the only one of my favorites to ever try to get me to the Champagne Room. Fat chance. 2 weeks ago she made $1,000 on a trip to the Champagne Room with some sucker.She is the hardest worker at the club and probably the top money earner. But she will still give me very high mileage lap dances at the rate of 2 for $20. She is also the only dancer that I have ever heard of that gave me her husbands cell number.

Chandler, I'm not sure what you're talking about but here's some examples of what I mean. Generalization: dancers are in it just for the money. Generalization: if there's money involved, it's strictly a business transaction. Generalization: dancers don't much care for their customers. I agree with every one of these generalizations. I've also known exceptions to every one of them. In fact I think one of the pleasures of strip clubbing is looking for the girl who is the exception - it's what I always try to do.

We make generalizations because they help us to understand how our world works without us having us to rethink about every situation from scratch every time it arises. But things are rarely as simple as generalizations make them out to be; life is messy. People are rarely one thing, they are many things, often conflicting things.

Seems to me that the exceptions to the generalizations are what this discussion board is all about. I talk about the girl who made an exception and became my friend. Shadowcat talks about the girls who make exceptions and give him a special price and extra service. Others talk about their experiences with girls OTC, or ask where they can find exceptions of one sort or another, how they can improve their odds, what clubs offer exceptions. That's what this board is all about.

And that's where we differ from the pink site. They pretend the exceptions don't exist, that no girls make exceptions. Or they trash the girls who do and the customers who look for the exceptions. They talk the generalizations, we talk the exceptions.

I'm not trying nor do I have a desire to date any stripper. I wouldn't have even hooked up with any either but some dancers have a way of persuading a guy at times. How to date a stripper? I had about 2 visits to strip clubs under my belt. I saw some hot dancers and asked someone if dancers ever went out with guys in the club. He said no. For some reason if I heard no back then, I thought I had to try it. The second dancer I asked if she wanted to go out she said ok. Little did I realize she wanted money for her time for going out. I was ticked off at her. I had plenty of cash at the time so I gave her something to keep her happy after she started crying as well. Never went all the way with her but she became friends with me after a while without asking for any money when we met up after she got to know me better.

One thing I didn't realize at the time was that some upscale clubs had a strict no phone numbers with customers policy while other clubs were not that strict. The club I asked in some dancers were doing something called private parties. They would dance for a customer in a more private setting. Nothing more though.

I actually had the opportunity to really date the first and only dancer I decided to ask out at one time. She called me asking to go see a movie with me one night. Little did I realize she had broken up with her boyfriend and maybe she didn't realize it but she was also pregnant. One of my friends joked you could go from single to instant family, haha he was laughing. I didn't think that was funny. I turned down her movie offer. She lived too far away. I'd thought I'd share since that is the only case where I chose a dancer to try to have some outside the club dating. She was 9 years younger than me. All the other times, the dancer chose me and persuaded me if I was able to be persuaded.

FONDL, I thought you already used up your generalization for the day. Nice boilerplate "Introduction to Generalizations" lecture, but I don't see how any of that points to a problem with what I wrote about Doug's dilemma and your advice to him. Making ambiguous payments for her company has left him in an ambiguous catch-22 position that buying only dances would have avoided. The fact that that illustrates a generalization does not make it less accurate.

Like I already said, I don't see a problem with your advice to keep paying her and pretending he's not, if it makes him happy. Happiness and folly often coexist, but uneasily so for Doug, so it seems.

Chandler, this topic has drifted around so much that I totally lost track of the original subject. I have no idea what advice either you or I gave Doug. Or what the question was. I was simply commenting on what others have written. And if I do remember correctly, I was being facetious somewhere early on. But in restrspect I like my point that the girls on SW tend to talk in generalities and we here tend to focus on the exceptions to those generalities. I think there's some truth there, but then I guess that's a generality, isn't it.

AbbieNormal: In answer to your first question... why did my friend spend so much time in SC's trying to pick up strippers? First of all, he didn't frequent the clubs. I frequented the clubs. He merely passed along advice to me, from his experience, something that actually worked for him. When he DID want something a little different... a little wilder... a little kinkier, he'd head to the strip club and pick up some take out. And yes, way back in '05, just after I'd discovered this discussion board, I'd wanted to post something that I hoped could benefit the masses. I'd just returned from a business trip to his home town where we'd met up and hit a club together. He'd called a dancer over and introduced her to me, telling me that she was his new fuck buddy (he says this in front of her), and he asked her to tell me how they met. Giggling, she recounted the story that he'd just told me, proving that his method worked, at least on her that time. Yes, I passed it off as MY guidelines, because I thought it lost some credibility to say "my friend says...."

FONDL, the topic has drifted because you've lost track, not vice versa. This isn't the Pink site thread. Isn't one thread sufficient for you guys to cover your preoccupation with a site most of us don't care about? Nobody's stopping you from using your scroll bar to catch up on what's been posted here before commenting.

Doug, I take it the part in your '05 post about paying the girl the cost of a dance to sit and talk was your added wrinkle, not your friend's pickup technique?

Chandler, I guess I don't take this topic (or many of the others either for that matter) quite as seriously as you obviously do. I thought the first post was in jest, therefore I've been responding in kind. Sorry if that annoys you.

Yeah, right. Coming from the guy who gets all huffy about generalizations. Whatever.

Chandler: Hell, it's been so long, I might've added that wrinkle. But, getting back to the thread at hand...

You are pretty dead-set against the concept that there could be exceptions to the rule. I know from experience that it's almost unheard of that a dancer could possibly feel anything other than a hunger for money for the customer, but there ARE exceptions to the rule.

Two instances in my experiences come to mind in particular. Those being my prev-ATF (whom you know) and my ATF. I was "with" my prev-ATF for about two years, and though money exchanged hands, there was never any "you pay me x for y", or "if you want to see me, I need money" It was always quite the opposite. Eventually, there was an end to our "relationship", but again, it had nothing to do with money, or lack thereof... we just grew apart... like people in normal relationships do. Looking back on that relationship, she asked for money less than a handful of times, one of which was someone asking on her behalf, for bail money. After a lot of soul searching (some of it recent, in light of a current situation), I don't think I was taken advantage of at any time during our relationship. Admittedly, there were a few times near the end, where I started feeling a bit ATM-ish - I might've even posted something to that effect on this board, but upon reflection, I believe I felt that way more out of disappointment over the fact that we were drifting in different directions.

The other instance to which I referred is my current situation with my ATF. After spending the day with her last Thurs., and having several in-depth discussions about her, me and us, I am now totally convinced that money isn't a motivational factor for how she feels about me. She bared her soul to me, tears were shed, promises made. She is the real deal. We now have a mutual understanding about how we feel about each other, our respective situations and future potentials.

There ARE exceptions to the rule, though I agree that 99% of the dancers are in the majority.

Doug, the closest thing to a rule I stated was that paying only for dances instead of paying for her time avoids the kind of ambiguous catch-22 you described. That seems self-evident to me. FONDL tried to ascribe to me some "it's always about money and nothing else" rule, so I played along just to rattle his cage.

Is it possible to pay a stripper to spend time with you, then become lovers or whatever? Sure, I guess it's possible. I don't really care, because it's not anything I'd want to be involved in. Do I know of any instances where this has happened? No. I've read guys online claim they've got "something more" going on, but they don't seem credible.

In the two examples you cite, Doug, you never stopped paying either of them, right? (I mean it was you who just wrote, "I realize that I need to remove money from the equation because that is the only way that I will ever know her true feelings.") That sounds to me like a good, friendly business relationship. There's nothing wrong with that - it's better than a chilly, formal business relationship - but it's not what I'd call "something more".

I think it's important to distinguish between "date" as in, because she likes YOU independent of the money you spend, and "date" as in, because she values the money you spend on her during the date, for tchotschkes and for dinner, as well as explicitly for sexual services. Obviously. The problem arises when you realize that half of the civilian girls out there are going to go on a "date" because of the money rather than the person, too. So the problem isn't in distinguishing A from B among strippers, but among everyone.

Regarding the question about why a guy who appears in Michigan's Most Eligible magazine spends so time in a strip clubs trying to pick up strippers, I'd say that he does it as an escape from the trouble of trying to form relationships with "real" women. As I understand it, even good-looking men get disappointed with their results, and yes, are even rejected now and then. Somebody here (ozymandias?) once explained strip clubs something like this: You walk in, you take your pick from a roomful of hotties, and for a few hundred measly dollars, you've got a girlfriend for a few hours. I like that. If you look good, dancers may be inclined to do more for less dollars, I dunno. If you look good, and you're fun, and you can talk intelligently, AND you're willing to spend, then man, you can have a GREAT time in a strip club. Dancers aren't generally shy about letting you know they're attracted to you -- they're downright explicit. Who doesn't like to be on the receiving end of that? It's different in the real world.

I wonder if American women have put two and two together on that subject, Blue88. I think I'd be appalled at how poorly I and "my sisters" were performing relative to the rest of the human race, were I a female here in the USA. I'd have to realize that men deliberately pay LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY to GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME, and that there are actually MAIL ORDER SERVICES FROM THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES that provide BETTER REPLACEMENTS. I'd not be thinking "what losers men are, for having to get a Russian bride," but rather, "what a loser I must be, for forcing half of the entire population of this country to hate me." And if the obvious counter about subjectivity were raised ("maybe those men's criteria are wrong, and they SHOULD love me but are mistaken and prefer the Costa Ricans, but they're WRONG to prefer the Costa Ricans") then I'd have to also, were I a woman, admit that IT DOESN'T MATTER. If ALL men in the vicinity are wrong, and hate me, then what the hell, am I supposed to just continue to be hated and proud of being more "right" than them, or is cooperativeness maybe not a goal, too. Humm?

Sad but true ...

I don't think there is a shortage of quality women here in America. The problem is how much are you willing to give and risk. I find women who if they are interested will expect children as part of the deal. That isn't unreasonable in that if you're interested in young women don't be surprised if she wants to have children. So let's say you like, can afford, and are willing to be responsible for raising children. Sounding pretty good?

It shouldn't. With more than a few women once they get the children your sex life can suddenly look pretty grim and strippers or prostitutes will be your release. Let's say your woman doesn't have that issue and sex is wonderful from start to finish. Sounding pretty good?

It shouldn't. Let's say the relationship hits a down period. You lose your job, she's fucking your friends without your approval, she's maxing your credit cards, etc. DIVORCE. Then, unfortunately you may learn what real pain is. You get to pay to have your children taken from you in the name of child "support." No debtor's prisons? Don't believe it for a second. And, in the same vein "support" usually isn't support, but more like theft of money and children.

Thank god for strippers and other working ladies.

Good point, Book Guy. Attention American women: Behave more like whores, please.

I'm a dancer, and I have to say, the "don't accept a dance" routine is old. I have plenty of customers that I genuinely enjoy as people. They're fun, great to talk to, and treat me no differently when I'm dancing, I'm sure, than they would if they'd met me in "real life." These are the customers who really make the job fun. If you're a dancer who doesnt like people and doesn't like to socialize, you won't make money, no matter how great your tits are.

HOWEVER, there's another side to it. I expect men to also respect the fact that when I'm there, no matter how much I like them, I am working. If a guy takes it personally because I won't sit with him for hours on end when he's refusing to buy dances or tip because he "just wants to talk" or "respects me too much", that means he doesn't really respect what I do for a living. Would you go into a restaurant and expect the waitress to neglect all of her other tables just because you want to talk to her? Of course not. The principle is the same.

Generally I think if you want to date a stripper, BE A GOOD CUSTOMER FIRST. Or have a better reason for wanting to date a woman in the first place than the fact that she looks good naked dancing around a pole.

BE A GOOD CUSTOMER FIRST.

Well, I wouldn't be too generous (or a cheapskate unless she knows you're pretty much broke). And, bother her when she's slow and the club isn't hopping. Dancers have cut me off as a customer because they happen to like me over a period of TIME. Another dancer told me that as long as I spent money on her, then I didn't stand a chance of having something more.