How to date a stripper...
DougS
Florida
This kind'a follows on the heals of another recent topic (the ol' "strip clubs are used as a substitute for affairs" thread)...
Looking back on my SC hobby, I think I got more and more involved with it as my feeling that something was lacking in my life - more specifically in my marriage - became more apparent. Even though I told myself it wasn't true, I really was looking for "someone" in the club. I believe I might've found that someone, but that remains to be seen. It still hasn't been proven to me that there is more to our "relationship" than a dancer-customer situation, even though to me it feels much more than that.
I have a friend - he recently married FINALLY - who was quite the playboy. He even appeared in an issue of Michigan's Most Eligible magazine a year or two back. Anyhow, he had phenomenal luck with women in general, but he also scored with the strippers. MANY times. I always asked him what his secret was, and he gave me his general guidelines. I might add that I never completely followed his advice, which is probably why I find myself where I'm at currently.
General Guidelines for Dating a Stripper, according to Jeff...
-> always go to the club alone.. don't go with a group of friends
-> dress nice, but don't over dress
-> never show an interest in the dancers at the club - in fact, he advised sitting at a table facing AWAY from the stage, in the back of the room
-> mentally pick the girl that you are interested in, and stick with that choice
-> always refuse a dance when the "you wanna dance?" girls come around, even if your choice girl asks
-> make eye contact with your choice girl... smile a sheepish smile
-> if dancers come by the table and ask to sit, only allow your choice girl... all others are to be turned away
-> spend no longer than an hour in the club at one time... after the time is up LEAVE... even if your girl is sitting with you.. you'll be back to continue where you left off
-> eventually your girl, if she's interested, will come by your table and ask to sit down, and you will of course allow her to
-> don't show any interest in dances ... if she asks, say that you aren't interested in dances... you just want to talk with her
-> don't accept any dances from her, even if she tells you she won't charge you (obviously, what you are doing here is training her to know that you aren't going to be paying her money to spend time with you, and you aren't a horn dog wanting to grope her in the back) If she spends time sitting with you, or better still agrees to meet OTC (or asks you out) without any money involved, you can be fairly sure she is interested in you as a person, rather than as an ATM
-> at this point, the girl is usually handing him her number (I've seen him working it, and it usually is that simple for him)
Obviously, I go at it all wrong... I'm back in the VIP room with a dancer that I'm attracted to almost immediately. I set the precedence of giving her money to spend time with me, and that is probably THE biggest mistake to make. Once you do that, how do you stop?! I am still in this catch-22 state with my ATF. We only spend time together OTC, but even though she never asks for it, I hand her money at the end of the day. In my thinking, I know she is hurting financially (going through a divorce, etc.) and I feel that I am taking her away from her job and because of that, she has lost money for the day, BECAUSE of me.
I realize that I need to remove money from the equation because that is the only way that I will ever know her true feelings. If she continues to see me without the incentive of money, then I'll know we have "something". How does one take the step to remove money from the relationship, especially when she's so in need? If anything were to ever get serious between us, she needs to know that she can count on me to be there for her, and know that I would never let her down.
It's a sticky wicket for sure.
Looking back on my SC hobby, I think I got more and more involved with it as my feeling that something was lacking in my life - more specifically in my marriage - became more apparent. Even though I told myself it wasn't true, I really was looking for "someone" in the club. I believe I might've found that someone, but that remains to be seen. It still hasn't been proven to me that there is more to our "relationship" than a dancer-customer situation, even though to me it feels much more than that.
I have a friend - he recently married FINALLY - who was quite the playboy. He even appeared in an issue of Michigan's Most Eligible magazine a year or two back. Anyhow, he had phenomenal luck with women in general, but he also scored with the strippers. MANY times. I always asked him what his secret was, and he gave me his general guidelines. I might add that I never completely followed his advice, which is probably why I find myself where I'm at currently.
General Guidelines for Dating a Stripper, according to Jeff...
-> always go to the club alone.. don't go with a group of friends
-> dress nice, but don't over dress
-> never show an interest in the dancers at the club - in fact, he advised sitting at a table facing AWAY from the stage, in the back of the room
-> mentally pick the girl that you are interested in, and stick with that choice
-> always refuse a dance when the "you wanna dance?" girls come around, even if your choice girl asks
-> make eye contact with your choice girl... smile a sheepish smile
-> if dancers come by the table and ask to sit, only allow your choice girl... all others are to be turned away
-> spend no longer than an hour in the club at one time... after the time is up LEAVE... even if your girl is sitting with you.. you'll be back to continue where you left off
-> eventually your girl, if she's interested, will come by your table and ask to sit down, and you will of course allow her to
-> don't show any interest in dances ... if she asks, say that you aren't interested in dances... you just want to talk with her
-> don't accept any dances from her, even if she tells you she won't charge you (obviously, what you are doing here is training her to know that you aren't going to be paying her money to spend time with you, and you aren't a horn dog wanting to grope her in the back) If she spends time sitting with you, or better still agrees to meet OTC (or asks you out) without any money involved, you can be fairly sure she is interested in you as a person, rather than as an ATM
-> at this point, the girl is usually handing him her number (I've seen him working it, and it usually is that simple for him)
Obviously, I go at it all wrong... I'm back in the VIP room with a dancer that I'm attracted to almost immediately. I set the precedence of giving her money to spend time with me, and that is probably THE biggest mistake to make. Once you do that, how do you stop?! I am still in this catch-22 state with my ATF. We only spend time together OTC, but even though she never asks for it, I hand her money at the end of the day. In my thinking, I know she is hurting financially (going through a divorce, etc.) and I feel that I am taking her away from her job and because of that, she has lost money for the day, BECAUSE of me.
I realize that I need to remove money from the equation because that is the only way that I will ever know her true feelings. If she continues to see me without the incentive of money, then I'll know we have "something". How does one take the step to remove money from the relationship, especially when she's so in need? If anything were to ever get serious between us, she needs to know that she can count on me to be there for her, and know that I would never let her down.
It's a sticky wicket for sure.
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36 comments
This is the famous davids advice. Go to strip clubs to not spend money and to pick up strippers, I'm sure you've seen it before on old threads since you actually posted at the height of the davids discussions in the fall of 2005 that you'd tried the above method as your proven technique ( http://www.tuscl.com/discuss-thread.php?… ). Me, I've had this discussion. Anyone interested go to http://www.tuscl.com/discuss.php?Start=2… and read the davids or other posts going forward. There are also some others going back in time.
Basically, we did this topic to death and a lot of those who were posting at that time will be rather suspicious of you DougS, and rather reluctant to start this discussion back up.
Many women never outgrow their innate desire to have the hots for the bad guys, it can last well into their 30s or longer. Such ingrained biological drives are very hard to change. For single guys the best strategy is to adopt (at least) some of the bad boy behaviors and attitudes.
As for your friend when he was single (at one point) wanting to date strippers - I have to question his sanity. There is a very very small percent of strippers who can keep the business from screwing them up, howeever for most I don't think this is the case. One has to wonder why as a single guy he wanted to date strippers anyways, except for some kind of thrill
1. Why on earth would I want to date a stripper when I can rent one?
2. I don't have time to waste sitting at a table bored and waiting for my mark to happen along. I go in, grab the one I want, and get to it.
3. I don't go into a restaurant, try to be charming hoping they'll eventually feed me. I go in, order what I want, pay a fair price for it. A strip club isn't much different.
A stripper fuck-buddy is one thing - done that a few times - but date? Why?
Never understood the appeal.
O.
My ATF used to have another older gentleman friend similar to me. She tried to keep the friendship going after she quit her club (where she had been waitressing) because she really liked this guy. But he was concerned that she expeced him to continue giving her money and made a point of telling her that. That ended their relationship. And she still talks about him sometimes because she really liked him.
All relationships are based on people filling each other's needs. If you are filling a need for someone else, then choose to no longer do so, you stand a very good chance of ending the relationship, regardless of what that need happens to be. Once you start filling someone's need, that becomes an integral part of your relationship. You can't change the rules in the middle of the game.
We make generalizations because they help us to understand how our world works without us having us to rethink about every situation from scratch every time it arises. But things are rarely as simple as generalizations make them out to be; life is messy. People are rarely one thing, they are many things, often conflicting things.
And that's where we differ from the pink site. They pretend the exceptions don't exist, that no girls make exceptions. Or they trash the girls who do and the customers who look for the exceptions. They talk the generalizations, we talk the exceptions.
Like I already said, I don't see a problem with your advice to keep paying her and pretending he's not, if it makes him happy. Happiness and folly often coexist, but uneasily so for Doug, so it seems.
Hell, it's been so long, I might've added that wrinkle. But, getting back to the thread at hand...
You are pretty dead-set against the concept that there could be exceptions to the rule. I know from experience that it's almost unheard of that a dancer could possibly feel anything other than a hunger for money for the customer, but there ARE exceptions to the rule.
Two instances in my experiences come to mind in particular. Those being my prev-ATF (whom you know) and my ATF. I was "with" my prev-ATF for about two years, and though money exchanged hands, there was never any "you pay me x for y", or "if you want to see me, I need money" It was always quite the opposite. Eventually, there was an end to our "relationship", but again, it had nothing to do with money, or lack thereof... we just grew apart... like people in normal relationships do. Looking back on that relationship, she asked for money less than a handful of times, one of which was someone asking on her behalf, for bail money. After a lot of soul searching (some of it recent, in light of a current situation), I don't think I was taken advantage of at any time during our relationship. Admittedly, there were a few times near the end, where I started feeling a bit ATM-ish - I might've even posted something to that effect on this board, but upon reflection, I believe I felt that way more out of disappointment over the fact that we were drifting in different directions.
The other instance to which I referred is my current situation with my ATF. After spending the day with her last Thurs., and having several in-depth discussions about her, me and us, I am now totally convinced that money isn't a motivational factor for how she feels about me. She bared her soul to me, tears were shed, promises made. She is the real deal. We now have a mutual understanding about how we feel about each other, our respective situations and future potentials.
There ARE exceptions to the rule, though I agree that 99% of the dancers are in the majority.
Is it possible to pay a stripper to spend time with you, then become lovers or whatever? Sure, I guess it's possible. I don't really care, because it's not anything I'd want to be involved in. Do I know of any instances where this has happened? No. I've read guys online claim they've got "something more" going on, but they don't seem credible.
In the two examples you cite, Doug, you never stopped paying either of them, right? (I mean it was you who just wrote, "I realize that I need to remove money from the equation because that is the only way that I will ever know her true feelings.") That sounds to me like a good, friendly business relationship. There's nothing wrong with that - it's better than a chilly, formal business relationship - but it's not what I'd call "something more".
Sad but true ...
I don't think there is a shortage of quality women here in America. The problem is how much are you willing to give and risk. I find women who if they are interested will expect children as part of the deal. That isn't unreasonable in that if you're interested in young women don't be surprised if she wants to have children. So let's say you like, can afford, and are willing to be responsible for raising children. Sounding pretty good?
It shouldn't. With more than a few women once they get the children your sex life can suddenly look pretty grim and strippers or prostitutes will be your release. Let's say your woman doesn't have that issue and sex is wonderful from start to finish. Sounding pretty good?
It shouldn't. Let's say the relationship hits a down period. You lose your job, she's fucking your friends without your approval, she's maxing your credit cards, etc. DIVORCE. Then, unfortunately you may learn what real pain is. You get to pay to have your children taken from you in the name of child "support." No debtor's prisons? Don't believe it for a second. And, in the same vein "support" usually isn't support, but more like theft of money and children.
Thank god for strippers and other working ladies.
HOWEVER, there's another side to it. I expect men to also respect the fact that when I'm there, no matter how much I like them, I am working. If a guy takes it personally because I won't sit with him for hours on end when he's refusing to buy dances or tip because he "just wants to talk" or "respects me too much", that means he doesn't really respect what I do for a living. Would you go into a restaurant and expect the waitress to neglect all of her other tables just because you want to talk to her? Of course not. The principle is the same.
Generally I think if you want to date a stripper, BE A GOOD CUSTOMER FIRST. Or have a better reason for wanting to date a woman in the first place than the fact that she looks good naked dancing around a pole.
BE A GOOD CUSTOMER FIRST.
Well, I wouldn't be too generous (or a cheapskate unless she knows you're pretty much broke). And, bother her when she's slow and the club isn't hopping. Dancers have cut me off as a customer because they happen to like me over a period of TIME. Another dancer told me that as long as I spent money on her, then I didn't stand a chance of having something more.