Comments by chitownlawyer (page 17)

I always draw the lines at buffets, with rare exceptions. (The Philadelphia Ritz-Carlton, for example, has a great Sunday brunch--an entire caviar table--forget about it!!!!) First of all, the nature of the transaction--unlimited food for a finite amount of money--means that the management has to foist off a mediocre product Second, I don't want the public rooting around in my food. I do eat at strip clubs--and order off of the menu. I have never partaken of a free buffet at a strip club....nor a neighborhood bar...nor a church...nor would I.

Yoda, a lot of the clubs I

go to charge the same price for water or soda as they do for, say, a draft beer, to prevent people from nursing a $2 bottle of water all evening. Is your experience different?

I am so much into dancers from 18-23, and not into dancers much older than, say, 30, that I have to say younger--again, on the principal that you can't separate the dancer from the dance.

That's "principle", of course.

I had one of the best dances in my life at Oasis, albeit in one of the private booths. However, even the dances I got on the floor from the dancers and shotgirls were hardly air dances. I ended up in one of the booths with a shot girl who rocked my world so hard I was dizzy for an hour afterward.

I like them small and firm. DougS knows what I am talking about.

DarkWolf, my experience while in law school was that people who went to law school so that they could vindicate a certain cause ended up in two camps: Some of them got disgusted/bitter about all the classes they had to take that did not involve their "cause". For example, even though defending strip clubs would require that you take a lot of classes in constitutional law, civil procedure, and civil rights litigation, you would still have to take real property, estates and trusts, etc. These people tended to drop out early and go into some field that directly involved "the cause." 2. SOme of those people, who had an open mind, ended up doing something entirely different than their pre-determined "cause." For example, I went to law school to do criminal defense. I ended up doing insurance defense for my entire career (including all four jobs I had with law firms while in law school.) That's a big difference. If I have ever seen the inside of a criminal courtroom, it was because I was lost (or was in such a small county that civil and criminal matters were handled in the same courtroom). The idea of nursing is a good one. If I had known what my marital situation was going to be, I may have chosen that field myself. If you are concerned because you are not a science geek, just talk to some nurses. Their approach to issues of chemistry, biology, etc., are very concrete and non-theoretical. Here's a strange idea--since you like strip clubs so much, why not strike up a conversation with a manager/ass't manager about how they got into the business. In my opinion, herding a bunch of irresponsible, potentially drug-addled, band-member boyfriend crazy, baby's-daddy chasing girls is my idea of Hell, but some people might like it. You, BookGuy, say you've read "Parachute": in that case, how about some "informational interviewing" of managers in a strip club. What harm can it do?

What works for me is to remember that, to the dancers, it is all about the Benjamins. I work the same way. I can get emotionally worked up in front of a jury about a particular client's case, but once the verdict comes in, I'm on to the next one. Hell, the next one might call for me to take the exact opposite position as the last one--and I'll be just as passionate about it, as long as the hourly rate is paid. Perhaps being a trial lawyer allows me to be more dispassionate than some other people about the nature of the stripper/customer relationship. Even with a dancer that I've had an amiable OTC relationship with for a couple of years, and that I occasionally just chat with over the 'phone--my assumption has always been that if the money did not flow from me to her, the coochie would not flow from her to me. Thus, with this attitude, I have no problem avoiding emotional involvement. I do feel, by the way, as a matter of human psychology, that the female is more emotionally needy from 15 to about 30. After that, men are more in need of emotional support. Why do you think so many men curl up and die after retirement from paid employment, or from the death of a spouse?

DougS, I agree with everything you've written about your ATF. However, although I haven't seen her for about 2 1/2 years, I remember her as being a little younger looking, in sort of a coltish way, kind of like this picture of Kristy McNichol- http://www.hissandpop.com/celebrities/m/kristymcnichol/photos/007.jpg although with shorter and darker hair. Perhaps her time off of work "matured" her a little bit.

Although I have not reversed or modified my original position that your should not go to law school, I do disagree with the proposition that you are too old. As long as there's some life in you, you're young enough. I just don't detect the passion that you need for the arduous slog through law school and the more thankless aspects of law practice. By the way, your physically-oriented pursuits made me wonder if you could do anything as a certified personal trainer. There are a lot of fat, middle-aged guys with a little disposable income (I know one of them very well) who would be willing to part with some money to get (back) into shape. A general comment...don't let your choices be constrained by your past education. In other words, don't look at a particular field and say, "I can't do that, I have 6.3 years of education more than the average person in that field." Make money during the day, deconstruct Evelyn Waugh during your free time.

I prefer to be a little hungry when I have sex. For some reason, it seems to focus my attentions. I certainly don't want to deal with the torpor that can come after a big meal (especially, for me, one that has involved eating a big piece of meat) The best times I have had with my OTC have involved sex first, followed by a leisurely dinner of Chinese takeout delivered to the hotel room, accompanied by discussion that is sometimes racy and suggestive, and sometimes almost ridiculously connubial.

Re: Lopaw's comment above--once I was getting a lap dance at a club of somewhat questionable provenance, and the dancer kept saying, "You're so clean...you're so clean." I took that as an indicator of the type of clientele they typically got.

Rent and watch "Fatal Attraction", then flee for your life while you still have a chance.

By the way, the same study showed that 1/3 of HIV+ people die of something else. I suspect that if they controlled for age, they would find that the proportion of 65 year old HIV+ men who die of "somthing else" is even higher.

IGU, I'd never advocate unprotected sex, but a recent study in NYC shows that the current average age from HIV diagnosis to death is 24 years, which would take you past your statistical life expectancy. What you do with this information is up to you. I'm just passing it along.

My OTC (now, I suppose, former OTC dancer) says that there are showers in the dressing room at her club, but that they are far too gross for her to venture inside them. The thing that made the other dancer's refrain, "you're so clean, you're so clean" so unusual was that she was administering oral relief throughout the time she was saying it.

BookGuy, you're absolutely correct, and I should have phrased my post more carefully. What I meant to say was that 1/3 of persons with hiv+ status died from a causes or causes that could not be related to their immunocompromised status, secondary to hiv infection. I believe that heart disease was the biggest "alternate" killer.

I think that, esp. during the late afternoon/early evening shift, there are a lot of guys in blue-collar jobs who come to the sc straight from work. I never really get stinky except at the gym, and I shower either there are on arriving home.

But Chandler, if a stripper is going to pick some random feature about me to compliment....is it going to be my personal hygiene? I mean, for most of us in the business world, that's a given, not something that you get extra points for. I know that strippers sometimes don't have the best judgment, and maybe to some of them that seems like a big compliment. I do have dancers compliment often on my choice of tie, and that is obviously a convenient and made-up compliment. (Except for the dancer who took my tie and made it into panties that entirely covered her g-string. She ran around the club for the next hour with that tie on, and it took a lot of effort for me to recover it. To this day, I wear that tie when I know I am going to have a tough day. Just looking down on it and thinking about the memories can help a lot...)

I would drive to Indy and open Brad's. For that kind of money, I want some indication that I am going to enjoy myself. I would stay the next fifteen hours til closing. I'm not sure that I would increase my usual pace, as that seems to be sufficient for fun. At closing, I would repair to the closest motel (with a stop at the Steak-N-Shake at the exist ramp for sustenance), put in a wakeup call for 11:00 am, then return to Brad's, and rinse and repeat until the $3K was gone. Realistically, I think that 3K would last me from 2-3 days there, depending on lineup. I suspect that, after the experience was over, they could probably mail me home in a manilla envelope. But I would be happy.

In my opinion, and to re-visit a pet peeve of mine, I think the failure of the rating system is represented by the inclusion of Mexican whorehouses. I understand that sometimes the distinction between a high extras strip club and a bordello can be fuzzy...but it is my understanding that the Mexican places are unabashed whorehouses. To group them with places that at least have the burden of providing some semblance of "dancing" is unfair and not useful.

Chandler, this might be the subject of another thread, but I really believe that the main distinction between women is those who will put out for money, and those who won't. If a woman won't put out for $1K, I really don't think that $3K will make a difference (lacking extraordinary circumstances--her kid needs a kidney transplant, etc.).

FONDL, you raise an interesting and valid point. I don't go to a strip club expecting to pick up a dancer, although I am generally open to that possibility, and it has happened several times. I suppose that a rationalization is as follows: Strip joints are legal, by and large. Escort services are illegal, by and large. If you patronize a strip club looking for sex, your chances of success plummet, but you have some degree of plausible deniability that you were doing/seeking anything illegal. If you patronize an escort service looking for sex, your chances of success soar, but you lose the element of plausible deniability. Whether the availiability of plausible deniability in the strip club option makes up for the lack of chance of success depends on how much one values each element. I do feel sorry for dancers who only want to dance having to put up with guys looking for sex.

Chandler: Of course you are right. After all, if becoming HIV+ increased the life expectancy of a 65 year old by 24 years, that would lengthen his/her statistical life expectancy by anywhere from 19 to 11 years, depending on whether he/her was a him/her and black or white. That, in turn, could be an argument IN FAVOR of contracting HIV. Obviously, even HIV+ people die from all the other causes of death that kill HIV- people. I guess the better point is that HIV infection has gone from being a death sentence (the old joke from the early 90s: What does AIDS stand for? Anally inserted death senttence.) to a chronic disease like renal failure, diabetes, heart disease, etc. Now, each of those "chronic" diseases result in complications that kill thousands of people every day in the United States, so their significance is not to be downplayed. But at least HIV infection, and AIDs-linked opportunistic infections can be treated, so that "investors" are no longer making money by paying HIV+ men to name them as beneficiaries on their life insurance policies. (What a grim business that was! I bet a bunch of lawyers thought it up.I actually had a broker approach me in the mid-90s about joining such an investment pool. Hopefully he went broke with the advent of retro-viral drug therapy.).