discussion comment
19 years ago
Wow, this guy's in deep.
discussion comment
19 years ago
casualguy: Are you saying that strippers also want what they can't have? So turn the tables on them. *l* That's clever.
Someone here oughta try that one. I bet it would work.
discussion comment
19 years ago
"you seem to start from the assuption that all of us go to SC's for the purpose of getting involved in relationships"
No, I think that is the a very small minority of strip club goers. Talking to strippers and other club employees, I think it is true that some regulars are looking for relationships. There may be posters here who fit into that group. Other posters seem to have their heads screwed on straight about things.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Yoda: I think that exactly 0.1% of customers are consciously and seriously looking for relationships when they first set foot in SCs.
In this 0.1% of cases the majority are young, confident, well dressed, musclar guys in their early 20s. They would like to try out the challenge of trying to "bed a stripper". I will call this class of customers SAMs.
I have no idea how often the SAMs are succeeding: On the other hand, I have seen strippers giving out their number to such guys who apparently did not even buy dances from them!
(One of my friends in college was the said SAM type. He loved to collect phone numbers just to see how many he could get: At the end of the day he threw them all in the garbage.)
Tere are at least a couple of other classes of customers looking for relationships:
a) Lonely, shy, guilible guys who go to the SC looking for "sex" originally, but then get convinced that they have formed a "special" relationship with a stripper. (This "misunderstanding" is often due to conscious manipulative efforts on the stripper's part: the stripper either sees the customer going down the wrong path and stands passively by or is consciously pulling him down it.)
Although this class of customer is refered to by the SC culture as PLs I won't be surprised if many of this class of customers suffer from some sort of mental illnesses: in particular depression or social phobia. Strippers I have bribed or tricked into answering my questions have admitted that they also feel this to be the case.
At the extreme end of the spectrum I even met two extremely unethical strippers who took advantage of customers they admitted were "mentallly challenged" by leading them on beleiving that "sex" might be in store for them.
b) From reading this board and other boards I now beleive there is another subclass of regulars whose ultimate goal in being in SCs is to form relationship with young, beautiful women. I will call this class of customers the "SuperAddict" and its ultimate objective THE PRIZE.
The SuperAddict is willing to go to SCs for years, or even decades in pursuit of THE PRIZE, realizing that THE PRIZE will only be won extremely rarely. Along the way the SuperAddict learns some lessons, and as such is not (apparently) as easily suckered as the PL.
The SuperAddict is, however, willing to pay the (huge) cost of the search. Indeed part of it can reasonably be justified by the fun the SuperAddict has along the way. However it remains clear from the SuperAddict's most revealing posts that THE PRIZE is ultimately what the SuperAddict is after. Appparently the SuperAddict is successful from time to time to.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Yoda: Yep, I've had girls mentioned that they knew or "got the feeling" that many of their customers are married or have GFs. One girl said she thought "most customers have GFs or wives and only come in here when they are fighting with them and not getting any pussy at home."
discussion comment
19 years ago
I'm just here to provide balance to the "strippers are wondeful" camp which I feel is over represented on the stripper related discussion forums.
Don't you think the other side needs to be heard too?
I'm realistic: I realize that some here have deeped seated reasons for behaving as they do, and won't be changing their minds any time soon if ever!
discussion comment
19 years ago
Ok, you caught me Yoda, yeah, I've was burned by a stripper once: She stole money from me which I never got back: $80. Then the stupid bitch has the nerve to come by another night and ask me to get dances from her! Incredible! Goes to show you how stupid strippers think their customers are.
Anyway, another tried to steal $100 from me, but I got it all back. 5 or 6 tried to overcharge me for dances, but in each case I just stuck to my guns said take it up with management and got my way.
As for thinking I had a special relationship with a stripper, this was always pretty easy for me to tell using the "well I'll stop paying her money and see how she responds" test. This always seemed to me the completely obvious thing to do: I mean if she really likes you she isn't going to charge money to spend time with her, right? So I never fot burned by that.
I had countless strippers tell me "we were friends" or had some special relationship, or variation of this. Mostly I just laughed and put them to the test and watched them squirm: Kind of amusing to be honest.
Then there were strippers with countless stories about how they had family tradgedies, car accident, and desperately needed money to pay their rent. Pathetic. Never gave 'em money for that.
My real problem with strippers is that they are lying, stealing, and scamming so often. You see it pretty much constantly in SCs. It must be working on someone else they won't try it, right? I'm sure it would never work on the veteran customer, but it must be working on a non-negiigible % of customers else they won't be trying it right?
The bottom line is I think strippers, as a group, are rightfully regarded as just a step above a prison population when it comes to ethics. Many, in fact, do have rather INTERESTING rap sheets, but that's a topic for another day...
discussion comment
19 years ago
Yoda: "your percentages mean nothing since you have no factual data"
I thought it would be pretty obvious that I was joking that time by throwing in the word "exactly", but I guess some posters here are pretty humor impaired.
Yoda "It occurs to me that you are leaving out one group of customers that is by far in the majority: Guys who just go to clubs to have some fun."
I've said in other threads that I think that is the vast majority of customers.
Yoda: "Oh, by the way, strippers play the same game when it comes to throwing away guy's phone numbers at the end of the night"
My SAM friend in college was doing this with "real" targets. Girls in malls or bars. Not strippers. A stripper's phone number is pretty much a valueless commodity. I'm sure if I spent a day going to strip clubs I could walk away with 12 numbers by the end of the day. But then again if I spent the day shopping for used cars, I could come up with the phone number of 12 used cars salesmen. The numbers would be equally valuable to me.
I am well aware of all the numbers strippers collect each night. I think 12-20 is pretty common. One very strange stripper said she keep all the business card she was offered because she thought it would be "rude" to throw them away. (But her policy was to never call them). She had 900 in her collection. "Trophies?" I asked. She didn't get it.
Finally, some advice: If you do get a stripper's number just throw the dang thing in the garbage or delete it from your cell phone. If you phone her, you are marked as a PL in her mind. But what if she is really hot and gives good HJs or whatever? Still throw it in the garbage. Don't get attached to one stripper: make them compete against each other for your business. In particular make her work to keep your business. Don't phone her up begging to have the priveledge of doing business with her. Make it the other way around. It should be a priveledge for her to get your money.
discussion comment
19 years ago
johnny: I wish we lived in a society in which prostitutes and other sex workers were just another profession which was perfectly legal. I think alot of the problems with SCs arise from the fact that "sex for money" is considered immoral by many. I think the sex trade might even evolve high standards on business on its own in such a climate. Unfortunately probably decades off in the future given the recent resurgence of religion. Have to adapt to what we have in the meantime.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Interesting work. I take it Yoda was not the original author? ;-)
I think what is needed is a veteran FAQ from which customers could learn how to turn stripper's weaknesses and behaviour against them...
discussion comment
19 years ago
I think I had unrealistic expectations when I started: I thought strippers would just be good looking, college girls looking to make a little extra money for tuition by having some harmless fun. Little did I know about the sleazy, but strangely fascinating world I was about to enter. (How I got the naive expectations in the first place I'll never understand.)
I definitely disagree that strippers have no discernible significant statistics differences from other girls their age. But that dead horse certainly doesn't need another whack here.
I wonder if older or younger guys are more likely to mistakenly feel they have a "special relationship" with a stripper? On the one hand, I can see young guys as not thinking that it is unrealistic for a young woman to like them (and in some cases it won't be unrealistic if they guy wasn't paying money!). But on the other hand, the young guys are also more likely to be looking for (and getting) free, hot pussy OTC... Also most young guys won't have the money to sustain the hobby for very long.
I predict most "PL"s are guys in their late 40s or 50s who either have some sort of psychological problems and/or have recently had some major martial problems and are now forced to find (or are semi-consciously contemplating finding) a new mate even though they are past their prime so are unlikely to find what they really want...
I think once someone is in their 60s they can so clearly see that sex with a 20 something is so unrealistic that they won't get taken in as often. That and people that age are (hopefully) just plain wiser in the ways of human affairs. :-)
I'll have to ask my stripper "friends" about that one sometime.
discussion comment
19 years ago
jctone: Perhaps. Maybe that's (secretly) why I found the whole experience and culture so fascinating.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Management at the club I had money stolen from me at told me "well you just have to watch your money better in a place like this". Needless to say that was my last visit there. Apparently not to many other people go there either, coincidence?
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19 years ago
FONDL: "that it is mostly true for many and perhaps most of the strippers"
Wow, people changing their positions big time. They used to say it was just a small minority, no more than any other group of girls the same age.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Always a bad idea to tip off to a woman or someone you are involved in a potential business transaction with how much you desire them or their product.
Have the girls come to you. If they don't just get dances from other girls to make the "hard to get" ones jealous. Wait them out. They'll come to you eventually (might be the next night you visit).
After you do get the dances then leave some doubt in the stripper's mind whether you really enjoyed her efforts or not. (You can hint at it, but leave the room for uncertainty.)
It's always a bad idea to get attached to one particular stripper. Have several you get dances from, so if one misbehaves you put on hold until she starts behaving more respectfully.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Smiling or tipping is ok. Don't say you enjoyed it: that's a dead give away.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Smiling or tipping is ok. Don't say you enjoyed it: that's a dead give away.
discussion comment
19 years ago
casualguy: "There are still a few people who will return wallets with all the money still in it but there seems to be less people like that around nowadays. If you're in a strip club, your chances probablydropped dramatically"
Looks like casualguy is admitting here that he agrees with me that strippers, on average, have less ethical integrity than members of the general population. Somebody call Yoda back from his vacation: The strippers are in deep trouble now, and in serious need of some mega ass-kissing to salvage their good name!
discussion comment
19 years ago
If you are into a good balance between looks and attitude than I would say mid 20s (23-27) is best. Also barely legal not yet jaded types can be nice too.
discussion comment
19 years ago
I think I'd have to side with casualguy here: I think it's next to impossible not to get a stripper's phone number if you ask. (Exception: Some might withhold for a bit to pretend it's a valuable when it's not.)
discussion comment
19 years ago
clubber: Could be a fictionalized, idealized dancer that you know will never appear in a SC. That way you aren't lying: just misleading.
discussion comment
19 years ago
RL: I beleive that FONDL fits your description.
discussion comment
19 years ago
FONDL is looking for love in strip clubs.
discussion comment
19 years ago
I suspect FONDL is way off track with his advice. I bet it's nice/non assertive guys who are the ones who get marked as dupes and get the most scams run against them.
Maybe some stripper told FONDL that they only try to scam the jerks and FONDL beleived them.
Think about it: who is a con artist going to think is more likely to fall for a scam? A nice, weak, guilible person, or an asshole? With this in mind read FONDL's rules again and then decide for yourself if he knows what he is talking about.
discussion comment
19 years ago
AN: Ok, I consulted an inside source about this and here is what I learned:
Strippers who scam customers are often exploiting the customer's lust. You are also right that they often rationalize it as "well he is only trying to get sex from me so it's ok for me to just try and get money from him but without giving him sex (or as little as possible!)".
Now I'm sure everyone here sees the obvious problems with this "rationalization":
a) Two wrongs don't make a right.
b) Is it really so "bad" for a man to want sex from young and beautiful woman? Is that as bad as lying? (I would agree that if both are being dishonest about their feeling toward each other it's just a matter of "no honor amongst theives".)
Those are two obvious problems with the rationalization:
However, there's another subtler and more surprising problem: as incredible as it may sound, the scam victims often are not that interested in sex!
These victims see some strippers as princesses "trapped" in a terrible world they do not belong in and they see themselves as her saviour. These men are typically middle aged to older men with lots of money. In some sense they are seeking to be her "daddy" and it is this desire the strippers are exploiting. Is wanting to be her "daddy" in the sense of helping her get life together stupid? Probably! It is as unethical as scamming someone desiring to help others? No way!