When is time to for you get another vehicle

We are in a transition to battery/electric. Toyota has 7 new electric models in the next couple years. In 4 years, half the cars sold will be all electric. By then, electric cars will cost the same, or less than, ICE. Factor that into your decision.

Definitely repairs. My 300k Mike vehicle had to have $7k of repairs stuck into it, but that was over 3 years ago and all I’ve had was to change the oil since then. Still runs like a champ, too. I guess I’m too sentimental when I ja e traveled around the globe a dozen times in it.

^ I'd love to go electric, but it isn't practical until we build better charging infrastructure and battery technology. If I'm driving 600 miles, why would I add 3 hour-long stops to recharge, vs. 2 quick fill-ups?

For now, I run my cars into the ground, why mess with what works? My car is a way to get from one location to another, not a penis extension.

I have a bad-habit of keeping my cars till they don’t run anymore (or they start giving me problems) – w/e interest I used to have in dating I lost more than 7-years-ago; i.e. if I dated I’d feel a need to have a nice-ride – but having a nice-car has more and more become a pretty-expensive acquisition for something that just goes down in price as soon as you drive it off the lot - based on this I stay w/ my jalopies rather than get into something else that is affordable but just “meh” and not a huge improvement in style; and if I see something I like then the sticker-price makes me thinks thrice even if I can technically afford it and I end up staying away.

But yeah – right now is not a good buyer’s market I assume particularly in dense urban areas w/ a lot of buyer-demand – new cars are having trouble being assembled b/c of lack of parts and issues w/ the supply chain, and the used-car-market has gotten GCS (golden car syndrome) and it’s hard to find decent affordable options.

Having said all this; there is no guarantee that the car-market will become more affordable in the future - w/ new cars getting more and more expensive one would think the used-car-market prices will remain high due to demand from people not wanting to get into ever more expensive new cars.

Right now is probably the worst possible time to have to change a vehicle
If you can make repairs and keep your car on the road another 6-12 months the market will sort itself out and the actual direction you should take will become obvious

If you do decide to get another car, don't throw out a super high offer just because your curious
😃

If worse comes to worst I heard SJG has a spare 1970's Huffy bike he can ship to you

LOl @ papis comments

mark94 - Where are you getting that info ? Half of all sold in 4 year are ALL electric ? Maybe hybrids, but not ALL electric.

25 is correct. Now is not the time. There are severe inventory problems right now. You may think you are getting a lot for your current vehicle but you will get gouged on the repurchase right now.

In normal times, I buy a car that has 10-15 thousand miles on it already. Certified Pre-Owned. Everyone thinks I got a brand new car. But someone else took that first year depreciation. Then I unload when the care gets more than 80,000 miles. I want dependability. And things just seem to start to go wrong after about 80k. And the trade in still has some value at that point. That makes me trade every 4-5 years. By then, I'm getting bored with what I have and want something different.

I’m pretty close to 200k as well 😅 So far though I’m lucky to have a vehicle that seems to be running strong. I’d assume a LOT of your miles are long-distance highway miles? If so, expecting 300k shouldn’t be unreasonable ?

I’ve read several articles about electric cars and how their adoption parallels what happened with other technology, like the personal computer. It happens slowly then, as a certain economy of scale is reached, it happens very rapidly. The build out of electric charging stations is happening quietly, but rapidly. Battery technology continues to improve, including rapid charging, battery density, and battery longevity. For me, the fact that Toyota and VW have committed to new electric models tells me the time is coming. The larger auto companies are jumping in feet first and not hedging their bets on electric.

Well said. Thank you.

Conclusion from that Forbes article:

At this stage in the game, as deadlines on their sale and restrictions on their movement loom, along with higher fuel prices and taxes, buying a petrol or diesel vehicle makes no sense and so more and more brands are reducing the presence of these vehicles in their range. Simply put, an obsolete technology is now being abandoned, a process that points to a healthier, brighter future for all.

Not going to argue that the future isn't going to be electric, fact is that's the coming attraction, but the format isn't set yet and there are still factors that need to be worked out, I personally would hold off on electric until the formats are all agreed on, or else you might end up with the losing format, still right now is a bad time to buy any new or used cars, electric or gas, the market is in a crisis right now, with several bubbles happening at once, and just be patient the market will sort itself out let guys like Mark lose their money, wait until you know for sure what direction things are headed.

I get attached to cars and have a hard time letting go. But I buy them a year or 2 old. Almost like new but a lot cheaper.

Im thinking with Uber and more public transportation its not that big of a deal to have a car. I hate traffic but it's the convenience of having a car

I agree that now isn’t the time to buy electric but we are only a year or two away from having lots of mainstream electric choices with models closer to $30,000 than today’s $40,000-$50,000. I’m ready for a new vehicle but thinking the landscape will be different in 12-24 months. Just look at what Toyota has planned:

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota…

Current battery technology allows rapid charging to 80% capacity in about 20 minutes. That adds about 200 miles. We are close to being able to add 100 miles of driving with a 5 minute charge. That’s not as fast as refilling with gas but it’s close enough that it would work for everything but cross country trips.

^ I could live with that. That's why I've said we'll innovate, not regulate, our way to "green."

My car is high MPG, runs fine, and does the job. And it's a Honda, so I'm only 1/3 of the way to its life expectancy.

By the time I'm back in the market, I'll probably be a "late adopter" though.

One added thought. Today’s car has about 100 microchips all working independently in different components. The eventual goal is to have all this computer capacity integrated in a coordinated fashion. Supposedly, that’s what Apple is working on when people refer to the Apple car. That’s a massive software and hardware effort that will take years. Basically, reinventing the automobile.

Then throw self driving into the mix although that is taking much longer than first promised. As long as it happens before they take my license away ;-)

Predictions are often wrong; but with so many mainstream automakers jumping on the E-car bandwagon it'll likely accelerate fast - plus the woke social pressure will likely not let up and most companies seem terrified of standing up to the woke industrial complex meaning the automakers will try to abandon ICE-cars as quickly as possible as to not get on the wrong woke-side.

And I think most people *would* prefer E-cars once it's more convenient.

But there are still hurdles to overcome - like sourcing enough resources to build all those E-car batteries; plus perhaps the need to improve the electric-grid to be able to charge millions of cars; and how easy/safe is it to dispose of all those batteries at their end-of-life - I assume this will worked-out but it may not be as straight-a-line w/ zero-consequences.

My money says true self driving is 20 years away. You can do simple highway driving but getting around on city streets and parking garages is massively complex from a software standpoint.

The good news about electric cars is most of the charging will be done at night. You need to build out the grid for maximum load and things are pretty quiet at night.

I get a new-to-me car just before I think my current one will become unreliable. Buying cars often can be a big money suck. So unless you’re into cars for more than just basic transportation, i don’t think it makes a lot of sense to get rid of one that still does it’s job.

I keep cars for a long time. I don't mind the money to do repairs, but the inconvenience gets to be a hassle if it is in the shop every month or two. If I start to feel like I have to worry about driving it on a trip, that is the point I buy another car. Also, if you keep a car about 10 years all the rubber and plastic starts to go regardless of mileage.

I know a guy that has an interesting take on it. He always replaces his car before it is paid off or his lease is up. That way he is always driving something fairly new and he never gets used to not having a payment. He says if he were to get to where he did not have a payment he would keep the car for much longer and that money would get absorbed by other things in his life. Then when he had to get another car he would have to re-budget and cut back.

I usually keep my cars 5 years and put less than 5,000 miles on each a year (my company car racks miles so my personal cars sit).

During the pandemic both cars had a total of less than 3,000 miles driven in a year. I said “when things get back to normal I’ll get rid of them and buy something else.” But a car I wanted a year ago cost $10,000 more today, so I said, I’m going to fix every issue no matter how tiny on both my cars and hopefully get another 2 years out of both of them. So far one of the cars I have spent over $7,000 ($4,000 of that was new tires and new wheels) and just about every little issue I’d fixed (new sparks and coil packs, struts on the rear hatch, flushed and refilled fluids [coolant, brake, differentials, oil], replaced the headliner). Next I am going to have the paint decontaminated, ceramic coated, the headlights restored and a tiny rust spot inside one of the doors fixed, transmission fluid/service and with new wheels and new tires, it should look brand new again.

The other car just went in for $700 yearly service, recent new tires and I’m going to decontaminate the paint and ceramic coat it too, and it should be good to go.

I guess spending about $9,000-$10,000 on 2 cars to get another 2+ years out of them and having them look in pristine condition is a better investment right now. Who am I kidding, the word “car” and “investment” shouldn’t be used in the same sentence unless you’re talking about a collectible car.

Unfortunately I have found myself looking for a car right now at the worst possible time. My primary car (2015 Ford Fusion) got totalled earlier this year when I got t-boned by an idiot messing around on his cell phone. Since then I have been driving my old car (2006 Dodge Magnum) that I had kept around primarily for when I need more cargo room for certain hobbies. Unfortunately it now has over 250k miles on it and is starting to run into issues.

I had planned to wait until the insurance settlement came in, which it did earlier this month, to shop for a replacement vehicle so I wouldn't have to finance the purchase. Unfortunately the prices on the vehicles I had been looking (2018-2019 Cadillac XT5) at have gone up from the $22-25K to the $30-35k range. If I had any idea that was going to happen I would have put $8-10k down back in February and paid off the financing now that the settlement came in.

Honestly I am liking the look, 40 mpg and price of the new Ford Maverick that they just unveiled and I may just buy a cheaper beater car for now until next year to see if any recurring issues come up with the Maverick before buying one of them.

As for electric vehicles, they would work fine for my daily driving since I could just put a charger in my garage but not for my business travel with the current charging options. Once a month I spend a week long trip going between our midwest offices which means Monday in northeast Ohio, Tuesday in West Virginia, Wednesday in central Kentucky, Thursday in Indiana, Friday in central Ohio. None of those areas offer great charging availability for EVs. If the major hotel chains could get on board with having chargers at each hotel I would jump on getting an EV. Several automakers have pledge to be 100% electric by certain years (2030-2035 seem to be most common) and a few countries like the U.K. have laws in place to ban the sale of new gas and diesel powered cars by 2035. I believe some west coast states like California and Washington have been working on similar new gas and diesel vehicle bans but I don't know if they have been passed yet or not.

I suppose that sooner or later the gasoline tax will have to be replaced to keep our roads in shape. I think a mileage charge has been the most popular solution so far.

Every time I fill up these days I whisper under my breath to myself "Fuck Biden". Thanks for closing our pipelines.

Biden shuts down an American pipeline but lets a Russian pipeline complete then we buy energy from Russia b/c we are not producing enough - only CNN would think that's a winning strategy - meanwhile we gotta import more oil which is transported by polluting ships whereas an American pipeline does not pollute when oil is being transported thru it - typical socialist dumbfuckery

My truck runs on shit! I get shit for free! Unless I dumpin too many loadz!!! 🤣🤣🤣

I paid $75 for a tank of gas that has cost me as low as $45 a couple of years ago. The funny thing is this is a tax on the average worker. Warren Buffet doesn't care what the price of gas is.

I would never get an electric car. I just don't buy into this green energy bullshit and I especially don't like being told what to do or having my freedom infringed upon. So the woke environmentalist tree-huggers can all go fuck themselves.

I’m definitely in the “ fuck government” camp, but the electric approach to cars has a lot of advantages once the final technology is developed. As large scale battery and car assembly plants become automated and come on line, the electric car will likely cost less than the gas car. Fewer moving parts to assemble or repair. Refuel conveniently in your garage. Faster. Quieter.

Since most electricity still comes from fossil fuels, and batteries require rare earth elements, the environmental advantage of electric cars is mostly bullshit. That’s not a reason I’d buy an electric car anyway.

We all use smart phones now, not because of carbon footprints but because they are better than the old technology. Same reason electric cars will soon win out.

Right now, cars are being sold as fast as they can be made. But, predictions are that we will reach a point where a lot of consumers will realize that electric cars make more sense. They will stop buying gas cars and demand electric cars. At that point, we will have overcapacity of gas car manufacturing and under capacity of electric car manufacturing. I’m guessing 2022-2023 is when that shift happens.

^^^ I personally think 2022-2023 is a little too early for that shift but I agree it seems like it’s not too far off.

Also, it seems like bigger battery capacity is not too far off either. I remember reading a ln article predicting a million mile battery good for 500 miles a charge is in the very near future (within 2 years). I lot of people don’t realize when they say “300 miles” but then it’s summer, you’re blasting the A/C, stop and go traffic and that 300 quickly drops to 220. Just go read some Consumer Reports articles on that.

If they can make a battery that last 350 miles in heat, and traffic then I’d be all in. I rarely drive more than 300 miles in a day unless it’s a road trip. If you start your day with a full tank of gas most cars can go 600 miles and only 1 fill up which takes 5 minutes at a gas station. If an electric car can achieve that then a lot more people would be on board. Let’s also hope batteries keep going down in price and good quality electric cars become more affordable, common people want a $30,000 electric car that isn’t a piece of junk.

@ shailynn
I noticed in your earlier post you referenced ceramic coatings for vehicles I have a new AMG coupe and I have been trying to find more information about having this done to my vehicle any information you could share would be appreciated

Shailynn:

Unlike gas cars, electric cars will “automatically” refuel every night. So, you’ve got a full 200 or 300 miles of capacity every morning. The fact that refilling at a charging station takes 20 minutes will be irrelevant unless you are taking a road trip.

^ that might be true except the charging stations will need to be standardized as right now a Tesla station is not able to charge a Volt and vis a versa and there’s no way that will all be worked out in a year or two, as the companies are still working on the design stages before they become common there will be a need for agreement on standards and specs.

In terms of when I decide to turn in an old car - it’s usually at the 10-11 year mark. I buy them new - and I get the latest technology and safety at the time. I generally purchase decent quality vehicles - with the intent of keeping them for a 10 year period.

If a car starts to become unreliable earlier - I will make a decision about repair vs selling it.

I’m curious about electric vehicles - and I might lease one for a bit - as a trial. I know it’s coming - and I’m thinking that might be one way to get used to an electric vehicle - and determine my preferences - before making a purchase.

One thing I’m curious about is battery life - in terms of recharging over the long term. Some rechargeable batteries can lose a bit after many recharges. If the battery performance degrades over time - that could make for a large loss in value for older vehicles.

I think the short answer on batteries is nobody really knows. They just haven’t been around long enough to have a track record. And, the technology keeps changing so some batteries are very new.

I worry, for example, about what Arizona summers might do to batteries over a 4 or 5 year period.

All you can really do is rely on the warranty to have a baseline.

“Most automakers have an 8 to 10-year or 100,000 miles warranty period on their batteries. This is because federal regulation in the U.S. mandates that electric car batteries be covered for a minimum of eight years.

However, the terms of the warranty can vary. Some automakers only cover an EV’s battery pack against a complete failure, while automakers like Tesla, Nissan and Volkswagen will honor the warranty if the capacity percentage drops below a specified threshold, typically 60-70%, during the warranty period.”

^^ I remember reading a review recently testing ageing EV batteries and they held up well. I'm sure there's duds here and there but one of the review subjects was a Tesla with a 4 year old battery and it was still charging at well over 90%. The technology they talk about is exciting. Just imagine buying a car that's "engine" (battery so to speak) will last a million miles? I'm siting here guessing but for me driving for 20 years, in my personal cars I haven't driven much over 200,000 miles. Just wonder if the rest of the car could keep up with the battery (body, glass, interior, etc.)

I replace my cars within the warranty period, so I get a new car every 3 or 4 years. I'm interested in an electric vehicle, but I want to see more charging stations in Michigan and the Mid-West before I buy. BMW is coming out with a new electric car that I want to look at.

"Unlike gas cars, electric cars will “automatically” refuel every night." That is true for some people but not all. Many people that live in an apartment or condo don't have a place to charge an EV overnight at home.

Some condos that I know of are already planning on allowing chargers to be installed ( at owners expense ). For every problem, there’s a solution.

When you want it to be.

The nicest car the average person in each state can afford ? Funny.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/these-…

I drive a 2012 Prius as my regular ride. it has 180000 miles on it. I honestly don’t like the car but it does get decent mileage. my other cars I haven’t been driving hardly any at all. I have a 2012scion XB which I would greatly prefer driving than that fucking Prius... The gas mileage of the Prius is 10 better mpg than the scion. of course the cars I would REALLY prefer driving is my 1968 impala with a 327 and also my 1941 Cadillac (with a 67 Cadillac 429). but these high gas prices demand that I drive the fucking Prius.

What are your problems with the Prius? It's at the top of my list for a new car to buy for a slew of reasons.

Back to the original track, 200k is respectable, but the most reliable old cars will easily giver you 250k+ miles. I would definitely hold out until the auto market normalizes. It's a shit show right now.

But speaking of repair bills, you're going to be in for a shock the first time you see one for one these new cars. Auto makers are stuffing them full of electronics and exterior sensors to support their driver assistance tech, which in fact is why production has slowed since chip makers are backlogged.

Remember those quaint days where you could pay a few Benjis for a glass truck to come out and replace your windshield? Those days are gone. My insurance company recently paid $1,500 to replace the windshield on my new car - $1k just for the part and another $500 in labor because the new window sensors had to be recalibrated. I hope I never have to replace the back bumper. Between the sensors and camera tech it would likely cost a few thousand or more.

rick my friend, I told you to just say “give me a new windshield you frickin’ wildebeest!” But you had to handle things the hairless ape way and pay for ‘em. I guess there are times when even the smartest ape on the planet just gotta ape...

Anyhoo, my recommendation for a new car is a Tesla. Since the Muddy ape still driven some antique POS he will probably be limited to a model 3. But you can still reprogram the autopilot to emulate the behavior of the average intoxicated ape. Or, as I call it, rick mode.

The cool thing about rick mode is that you can experience the thrill of driving drunk while drinking. And not the way I used to drive in my Land Rover, where I’d have one paw on the wheel and the other fist for the drivin’ whiskey. Nope...you can do some full on two-fisted drinkin’ while you enjoy a wild ride.

Try it. I will now await your heartfelt thanks for this advice. ROAR!!!

I read that 40% of the cost of new vehicles is related to electronic functions and that requires the microchips that we import mostly from Taiwan. We'll be fucked if China decides to retake the island.

Sore subject for me right now - I just put $2600 into fixing my 10 yo car. And it still isn’t right- I took it back to the mechanic twice now after the initial work. The $2600 job is under warranty so no charge for subsequent repairs, but it’s an inconvenience taking it to the shop and being without it.

I’ll be getting a new car, but I’ll wait until it’s more of a buyers market.

I’ll probably be getting a new mechanic too if the can’t fix my problem

^^^ New Car, I predict it will be 2 years before the market normalizes. I'm like you, trying to fix every little issue on my 2 cars because I know I will have them at least another 2 years. I don't mind forking out the money for a light used nice car, but I'm not paying 15%+ right now over what I could have bought the car for a year ago!!!

Intel is putting $20 Billion into expanding its chip operation in Phoenix. That should reduce some of the reliance on Taiwan but it’s going to take 2 years to build.

Most of the chips used in cars are not cutting edge tech. The car companies can find these chips in the marketplace but the lead time on orders is several months. I expect car prices to be back to normal by year’s end. Maybe a little later to refill inventory.

I only buy Nissans. My last primary car I had for 8 years and my current I have had for 6 years, it has 45k miles on it and like Warrior, I buy one year old cars, I’ve had 2 lease surrenders back to back. These last two have been Infinitis.

I also bought a shitty 350z in January that I am fixing up myself, it was unloved and improperly maintained and I have repaired and replaced so much on the car that it is ready to go on a cross country trip tomorrow. It has 170k and because it is a Nissan I am confident it can stick around for a while. It is my 4th Z car that I’ve ever had and all of my previous Zs have made it over 150k with zero problems.

So you ask about what makes you buy a new car, I have an old one and a new one and I love them both the same. My Infiniti is a Fast and Furious build that’s now on air bags and I will keep it for a long time—I am considering the new 400z once the kinks are worked out as well. 👍🏼

I usually buy new because I can not because you should

I'm not a car guy. Could afford much more than I drive but from dents/scratches and the like I'd end up on the 6'oclock news one day... When my maintenance costs start adding up and compare that to to cost of getting a new car

My Hyundai just turned over 200K, and I'm a little worried about the timing belt going because it's squeaking like crazy. Not sure I want to invest in getting it changed. I've kept cars in the past until I needed to do a moderate to major repair on them on a daily basis -- literally daily. I'm too old for that now.

Decent article saying used car prices went up 20% yoy.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/investigat…

... squealing like the late Ned Beatty in Deliverance.

General Motors announced this week that they are going to be boosting global spending on EVs to $35 billion through 2025, a 30% rise from its most recent forecast, according to Reuters. GM's announcement comes less than a month after Ford announced that it was going to boost its EV spending by more than 33% to over $30 billion by 2030.

Rule of thumb = when the cost of monthly maintenance begins to equal 50% or more of what a new vehicle payments would cost. By "new", I mean New, used cars are a chump's game.

"used cars are a chump's game."

I have gotten some great deals on certified preowned cars that had less than 20k miles and still had numerous years left on the manufacturer warranty. Of course, that's not going to happen again until new cars start piling up on lots after the chip crunch.

When the repair cost gets to high.

Our 'good' car will hit 200K in the next week, so starting to think about it.

Scrub

1. GM is not the sharpest saw in the shed
2. Lordstown seemed suspect from the beginning

But, I think Toyota knows what they are doing and they are committing to Battery EV. Either 2022 or 2023 will be the turning point.