I'm So Desensitized To Infidelity In This Industry.

"if that meant that all the wants and needs that you look for in the club were taken care of by her, would you still monger/sugar-date/etc?"

Probably not. Hypothetically speaking. "All the wants and needs" is a tall order.

He live in a society where almost everyone is a player. There are real players and there are wannabe players. I have escaped being married so obviously I couldn't have cheated on a wife I didn't have but over the years I never cheated on a GF. I had chances and passed on them. But that doesn't mean that I will go through the rest of my life never cheating on a future GF or wife. When it comes to people and relationships nothing is absolute.

As long as I’m single, I’ll be at the club. Otherwise, nope. I’m ♋️ So I’m pretty loyal

If I had had a girlfriend, I would not be on SA, in the clubs, etc.

@Eve

Human beings follow natural instincts regardless of the culture, mainly; all females want to procreate with the top alpha male or the closest to the top, and all the males want to procreate with the top alpha female or closest to the top. (Survival of the fittest)

On the other hand because of adaptation in order to survive; cooperating in the hunting (the males) and gathering (the females); monogamy had to be introduced (forced) so the males going away hunting would cooperate and would believe their mate would wait for him.

We all know this is an imperfect situation and outside of the couple affairs have been happening since the beginning of man.

To answer your question:

“If you by any chance decided to connect with a civvie girlfriend, if that meant that all the wants and needs that you look for in the club were taken care of by her, would you still monger/sugar-date/etc?”

I would refer you to Demosthenes, regarding all men’s wants and needs.

“We have courtesans for the sake of pleasure," says Demosthenes, "concubines for the daily health of our bodies, and wives to bear us lawful offspring and be the faithful guardians of our homes"

In this one startling sentence is the Greek view of woman in the classic age. And in all ages and times all men want that, by instinct, but only some, the 1% can afford it...

Demosthenes (384 – 12 October 322 BC) Greek statesman and orator of ancient Athens.

His orations constitute a significant expression of contemporary Athenian intellectual prowess and provide an insight into the politics and culture of ancient Greece during the 4th century BC.

We all want to fuck whatever we want to, it’s just the consequences that keep us from doing so. Most people have evolved. I’ve never heard someone say they would settle for a slow adult as a partner.

For the most part, single-guys can choose whether they want to be in a relationship - so the single-guy that is a SCer if he gets in a new-relationship it's b/c he wants to be in that relationship and will thus wanna make it work which often means being faithful (not SCing) - for the guys that are married or in long-term-relationships it's a bit different set of circumstances; for various reasons they are often kinda "locked into" that relationship (kids, an expensive messy divorce, etc) - my statements are not universal w.r.t. single and married guys, but the two types of relationships seem different and different circumstances (single-guy in new relationship vs married-guy or LTR-guy).

Still - it's often hard for a PL to change its spots once he's gotten a taste for what good SCs have to offer - a single-SCer may be sincere in his desire/attempt to be faithful and stay away from the clubs when in a new relationship, and he may give it the old-PL-try, but IMO at some point that little SC-devil is gonna start crawling up on his shoulder and start whispering in his ear and the PL probably often caves at some point.

As a joke goes - "a woman looks for the one man to satisfy all her needs - a man look for all women to satisfy his one need".

Jokingly to mean how males usually try to get with every female he's able to and desires (given the circumstances, ability, consequences) - this can be seen in the animal kingdom where in many species the male tries to get with every/any female he can and the female is usually selective to one male (with exceptions of course) - and as it's often posted here, no matter how fine she is, often times the guy gets tired of her at some point (again not universal); there will always be women that offer something different than the one you are with is able or willing to offer.

Interesting question, Eve. I’d like to think that if all my wants and needs were taken care of by the civvie gal in the relationship, I’d be happy to not monger. But we humans are complex creatures. So it’s hard say for sure, especially when one has mongered previously.

That is really interesting. I actually thought that most of the guys that were in clubs and SA were dateless wonders like me. I mean I have been single forever so clubs are all I got (never tried SA but I want to one day). On a side note. I would not care if I had a gf that was a stripper. I mean there are several strippers I wished were my gf. I actually like the idea of stripping as a profession since it means the woman is a self starter and a small business. I would get giddy about helping her pick outfits and do taxes and shit. But turning a stripper into a gf is complicated if you are a former customer I reckon. I also keep hearing they aren't attracted to us anywaey.

"... I actually like the idea of stripping as a profession since it means the woman is a self starter and a small business ..."

Well - that's one way to look at the stripper-glass as half-full 😃

I mean think of what it takes to be a succesful stripper, you have to be your own makeup artist, you need to have really good customer relations, keep a schedule, do your taxes, manage clientelle, keep a schedule, have physicality, and also maintain good diet and exercise. It is like 20 jobs in one! I would honestly feel really good about hiring former successful strippers at a startup or something, since they could have a history of developing good work skills. Also you could ask former bosses, coworkers, and clients if they hold up. Hell, I even bet you could learn something from reviews here!

Key part of that question. " if that meant that all the wants and need that you look for " . This would be a rare woman that could meet all of my wants and needs. I love the variety. Maybe if she was Bi and very willing to share me.

@Papi. "As a joke goes..." Then call me greedy, cause I'm always looking for all the men and women to satisfy a multitude of needs. LOL

@alec. You'll for sure land a stripper girlfriend if you promise her you'll help her do her taxes.

@scrub. "he is not in a relationship with you.. " Then he could just not text me about it like the other fuckdaddies and I'll assume that he's fucking other girls in the meantime till he's in the mood for me again. LOL

->@Eve: "if that meant that all the wants and needs that you look for in the club were taken care of by her, would you still monger/sugar-date/etc?"

For middle age+ PLs like me who enjoy clubbing and some ITC fun but not necessarily targeting OTC, getting "taken care of" at home by SO will not eliminate clubbing because youthful beautiful charming girls is not what's at home. Can't speak for mongers who seek arrangement cuz I've never dabbled on SA.

And geez scrubster, no need to be crass. Don't chase away our charming Eve who I assume is also young and beautiful despite the lack of dancer profile pics.

"... because youthful beautiful charming girls is not what's at home."

Not unless you gather a large polygamous multitude of youthful beautiful charming wives to greet you there.

@alecc

That is def looking at the glass half-full - what you describe def applies to some dancers since nothing is universal - but just as common, if not more common, is dancers being flakes, getting fined for not following rules, being lazy, not showing up for work sometimes for weeks, not being able to handle the rigidity and demands of the non SC working-world/corporate-America - for many dancers, stripping chooses them rather than they choosing stripping - i.e. many were not doing too well as civilians (job/finances wise) and thus stripping and it's unique environment is where they could make some kind headway; again not universal.

What you describe can be said of drug-dealers or mafia-guys - but most of those usually are not gonna make awesome employees when/if they try to go straight.

No, especially when I was a young man newly married at 24 with a beautiful blond loving College sweetheart trophy wife. Both smart and pretty. Only later in life did I get involved with strip clubbing, sugar dating. Marital problems, her telling me it was a business relationship, her female change of life issues contributed to the change.

A man would be a fool paying money imo to concubines, risking aids, financial ruin (strippers, SD site women) if he had a loving wife at home taking care of his needs. However many Kings in biblical times had both multiple wives and concubines. Our modern world tries to have fancy names For them like sugar babies.

Sessions with strippers / sd site gals are a fantasy zone which ends once the sex is over. These women feelings are for their husbands, boyfriends and they are thrilled and excited by the attention / money. One I met while she engaged told me her marriage (her 3rd husband) would not change our meetings, sex sessions. Her Facebook page had a whole presentation about how they were soul mates and HS sweethearts who re-connected. I did her for quite sometime she was the best of the best.

I think many women are called to be sex workers / strippers, sugar babies. My theory Is it could be a life intention (different from life plan) prior to incarnation to explore sexuality or simply continuation of such over multiple life times. A life plan is different as it involves work / career on how you are going support a life intention.

The one I met while she was engaged remarked that she felt our meetings (her sex work) was a calling. I don’t disagree she is a very wonderful sexy, special woman.

I only Monger when I am single.

When in a relationship, I give it 100% effort, time, and energy.

But when I am single, I give my mongering 100% effort,

That is just me.

@Eve There is one girl who I asked, "What do you do with all of the money you make?" and she said she just spent it on weed and other stuff I doon't remember. I asked her if she had a Roth IRA. So I got a lapdance and explained to her the benefits of Tax Free investing. I mean she was like 24 and could take advantage of compound interest ! She later gave me her number and sent me photos of her knee. There is one other girl who I thought might have liked me but the problem with strippers is I can never tell if they like me or just want me as a customer. I'd actually prefer for them just to say one way or the other. I think in most cases it is the latter but I'm too shy to ask.

@papi_chilo I do look at the glass half full. I don't claim to get to know many strippers too well but I have met a lot in the club and talked. As a whole I have no idea if they are more or less trustworthy than non strippers but I don't think they are like worse people or anything. The job skills I meantioned are just those I would reckon would make you successful. And I have met talented and successfil strippers that continue to do it into their 40s and beyond! I actually get a huge kick out of getting lap dances from older experience strippers since they know exactly how to make it good.

I have had the pleasure of meeting many strippers that are very ambitious and that is cool. I especially like ones that are future scientists , engineers , and coders. On numerous occasions I've given out my github and told them I'd be down to code or mentor them if they want it but no takers XD. I want to remove the stigma that stripeprs can't do other things or are there because no other jobs will take them. I think that is a negative and not true at all. Also think. Could you imagine how many more strippers there would be if more young women weren't turned off by the profession! That would be good for us PLs!

I’m single/no kids so I’m doing right now what I feel is exactly what I’m supposed to be doing by fucking everything. If I met the right girl though I would love to try to make that work. The right girl is really rare though so I’m the meantime...

@alecc

No one can say what a person can do or can't do in the present or the future - but two things you mentioned are often part-and-parcel of stripperville:

"... There is one girl who I asked, "What do you do with all of the money you make?" and she said she just spent it on weed and other stuff ..."

"... on numerous occasions I've given out my github and told them I'd be down to code or mentor them if they want it but no takers ..."

These are examples of why many if not most of them are not the go-getters you envision them to be - again cool that you choose to see the possibilities but the realities are often different - many of these girls spend their 20s developing their grinding-skills and not much else and once they are done w/ dancing they often don't have the skills necessary to transition to something else; and the older one is the harder it is to go back to school and often live the life of a financially-poor student - again, doesn't mean there aren't dancers that become successful in something else post a dancing career, but many that dance for a long time invest their 20s (and sometimes 30s) boozing, smoking weed, and mostly partying and not really preparing themselves for the future - again not universal but those of us that have been at this a long time have noticed a big difference b/w a dancer's talk and their actions in terms of their future ambitions - their mouths say one thing but often their actions say something else - again does not apply to every dancer of course.

I'm 33 rn but when I was in my 20s I did a lot of partying and wasting my life. Just because they do that doesn't mean they don't have potential. I also know many of them that have gone on to get other careers or build their savings and turn around their lives. One woman told me that if it wasn't for stripping , she would be in a way worse situation. Dunno. I see the good in people.

And like I said. Stripping in and of itself is hard to do for a long period of time sustainably. I think a lot of us think they have an advantage because they are hot but it takes discipline too! There is this huge element that is about skill that I actually think is pretty sexy in its own right.

I'm so desensitized that 2 years ago a favorite dancer told me that she was pregnant. Without thinking I asked "Do you know who the father is?" Without batting an eye, she replied "My husband".

"... I'm So Desensitized ..."

Now you know what it's like wearing a condom 😄

@aleccorbett "I mean think of what it takes to be a succesful stripper, you have to be your own makeup artist, you need to have really good customer relations, keep a schedule, do your taxes, manage clientelle, keep a schedule, have physicality, and also maintain good diet and exercise. It is like 20 jobs in one!"

You need to get to know some strippers as well as I have. They have messy lives and don't do anything well. They can only make money because they get naked. As for doing taxes! Ha Ha Ha. Strippers don't pay taxes. The only ones who bother to file are those with children who want to (fraudulently) claim the earned income credit.

I am currently limiting myself to 10,000 relationships.

when I hit that level I will then revise and limit myself to 100,000 relationships.

My ski pass last season was good at 37 different ski areas. In 2005 I played 100 rounds of golf at 86 different courses. Same theory with naked women. I like some variety. If wife opposed it, I would stop, but she has her own variety and doesn't.

"with a civvie girlfriend, if that meant that all the wants and needs that you look for in the club were taken care of by her"
Even if I found a civvie girlfriend that fit the bill perfectly, I would eventually get bored. I suspect that most guys frequent SCs not because they are incapable of finding a satisfactory traditional relationship but because they crave the variety. Even in the clubs I have a couple of regulars that I've been seeing for several years. No matter how much I enjoy their company, I have to mix it up with either new girls or even ones that I've passed on before, but they finally wore me down and my desire for someone different drove me to give them a try. Very few animal species are monogamous. I don't know who came up with the idea that humans should be but I think the phrase "world's oldest profession" pretty much demonstrates that they are not.

So. I'm just curious. If you by any chance decided to connect with a civvie girlfriend, if that meant that all the wants and needs that you look for in the club were taken care of by her, would you still monger/sugar-date/etc?

I really think it depends on existing circumstances for the person involved. If the PL in question is really looking for serious commitment he may think he has found “the one” and doesn’t want to risk screwing it up. Or he could be like the kid with a new toy who doesn’t want to play with anything else for a while.

For my personal situation I cannot see myself not enjoying the ladies at the clubs. No matter how talented or unbelievable that civvie gf is she could not meet all my needs/wants. She can’t be a petite AA spinner AND a buxom blonde AND a smoking hot Asian. I had the “she is everything I want” relationship for twenty some years and it was phenomenal, but rather than try to replicate that I now want variety.

Chris Rock said it best years ago speaking about Tiger Woods he said “men are as faithful as their options” I think that sums it up perfectly

The truly rich guys on Seeking don't need to see a "sugar baby" more than a few times because they have so much money that they can afford to pump and dump every girl on the website. He did not get back together with an old flame. He is out fucking other "sugar babies" because variety is the spice of life.

The other explanation is he was a salt daddy that only had enough bankroll to hit it a few times before his money clip was empty. He used the the old flame as an excuse to exit the arrangement.

Or possibly he found those adult films mentioned in your article and was intimidated by your awesomeness 😎

I'm mostly single and have been for a while. The few times I've started seeing someone, I've stopped strip clubs and associated behaviors. It's usually a phased approach. If I've made plans to see a civi, I'm not going to bang a stripper. I might still go to a club, get a dance or something, but I'm not doing more than that. I may make plans with and bang another civi in that period, but no strippers. If we've been out and are fucking, and what I'd consider "dating" or "seeing each other" I probably won't go to a SC without her or at least without her knowledge, even if it's a notification more than a question of permission.

Infidelity is something I think about. I am married, so some may say even being on this site is a form of infidelity. So far in my mongering career I have not gone over the line to even get a hand job at a SC. I do enjoy having a pretty young thing in my lap and playing with her boobs and ass. Maybe one day I will find the stripper who will convince me to take the plunge into extras. I am not morally opposed to it. I have just not had the right opportunity with the right dancer.

I assume that all of the SDs that I meet off of SA are seeing other girls because they are aware that I'm seeing other guys for the same reason or another. I've been sugaring on and off for 4ish years now and this is the first time I've had a guy send a text like this to me. Usually the guys just ghost. That's why I was puzzled.

I had a high school teacher once tell the class with every hot woman, there is a guy getting tired of fuckin of her

I have never been much of a fan rotating multiple girls. I like find one I really like concentrate on her. I think rotating different ones is a bad idea and don’t feel its right in how I want to treat the girl. Plus it’s easier stay on budget and less risk.

===> "Chris Rock said it best years ago speaking about Tiger Woods he said “men are as faithful as their options” I think that sums it up perfectly"

This. I can only speak for myself, but the reason I chose dancers to play with as opposed to civvie girls is because the latter come with a fuck ton of complications. As my wise father taught me years ago, when you stick your dick in another hole, make sure it's attached to a girl that doesn't want/need anything more from you.

What kind of mentorship is this? Was there a time both Rick and Rick Senior were stroking the managers at the same time?

I was playing bouncer with Ricky's mom while him and his dad were stroking each other

Do people here really expect to be believed when they claim that meeting "the right one" wouldn't stop them from clubbing? If my wife asked once for me to stop, I would slam on the brakes and put it in park. She hasn't in 30 + years so I follow our "rules", have no issue with the same rules for both of us (I wonder how many of you who "love" the woman would be happy to have her do as you do) and when its time to change the rules, we'll talk, reach an agreement and move on. She is a homebody so on her 4 days off from work this coming weekend, she will live in PJs and watch tv. Me? I am tired of the same weed; pissed at the way weed is going to be sold here starting Monday when millions from neighboring states harsh our buzz and I need some alone time. I will get on a plane Friday; fly to Denver; buy my favorite strain of weed in flower and extract form; buy a shitload of gummies and drive my rental car back home. On line poker from Omaha with my friends is no different than at home and barring bad luck I even get to go strip clubbing.

^ How is weed going to be sold?

===> "What kind of mentorship is this?"

The best kind, practical and useful. Men of his era knew that penises wander, but also understood the importance of discretion. It's only in the modern era that such angst and self doubt has infected so many men. Growing up our home was intact and we were none the wiser, which is how it is supposed to be.

In other words, he's been living in a cocoon of self-delusion since he was a child.

"===> "What kind of mentorship is this?"

The best kind, practical and useful. Men of his era knew that penises wander, but also understood the importance of discretion."

You tell em Ricky! The best mentoring cums from playing penis with your dad! sword fighting, stroking, playing bouncer, are all great learning games! Young ones need to be raised this way. That way we xan have more real men in out society

So I'm married. Actually my 20 year anniversary is this Friday. I made it through the first two "seven year itches" being totally faithful. It was only about 10 years ago I entered my first stripclub and I was 38 at that time. The first time in a club, I was shocked that (mostly) beautiful women came to sit with me, touch me, etc. I spent almost no money.

So once that door was opened, I couldn't go back. I remember my first time my pants got unzipped in a club in Pompano Beach about 6 years ago (without me requesting it). She went down on me, and I was so shocked and told her I didn't want that. Zipped them back up after a few seconds. Felt so dirty after that I left all my clothes that I wore to the club in my hotel room. Didn't want to wear them anymore.

Fast forward a few more years and I had my first BJ in a club in LA. Beautiful girl and she swallowed. Note that my wife hasn't done a BJ in probably 10 years, and let alone swallowed, never even to completion. So that was pretty awesome. That progressed to more of those though I always told myself "I won't cross the FS line".

Note that at the time we got married, my wife told me I could have one freebie a year ... so I didn't use it till about 5 years ago.

First time FS was at an AMP in New York. Didn't ask for it, but before I knew it I was inside. Never even felt her put on the wrapper, she was that good. Freebie number one gone (I didn't count the BJ's and HJ's).

After freebie one I told my wife there were going to be more. She already knew of course because nothing was really happening at home, and I had those freebies. That was my excuse, I told her I was going to use up my freebies. In addition, about 5 years ago my wife had back disc surgery and literally couldn't have sex for over a year. So I told her I wanted to continue to get some on the side and she was OK with it. We love each other, love our kids, lover our life and companionship, but she doesn't love sex and it hurts. She's had a second back surgery since then and was totally out of commission another year. I think it's been over 4 years since we've really had sex to completion, and when we tried once maybe a year and a half ago it hurt her so much she couldn't go on.

So there you go. I have an addictive personality, so even if my wife would have been totally against some action on the side, I probably would have done it anyway. I'm lucky she's understanding and really just doesn't care as long as she knows I'm safe and get tested every once in a while which I do.

I don't feel guilty about the sex. I've had some amazing sex the last few years, some awful sex, and everything in between. I've feared for my life, and felt like a million dollars in Vegas. I do feel guilty about the money spent for this companionship. I added it up once and had to stop once I got to six figures. This hobby is expensive.

The infidelity in the lifestyle has amazed and shocked me. Why would a woman with a young husband 12 years younger and a toddler drive 40 miles to meet a man for a sugar session? Why would a man nearing retirement spend money beyond a sane budget to cheat on his wife for a one hour session fantasy zone that money gone forever. Is it worth it?

Take time during this transition period brought about by covid to really analyze it. It may be better reconcile with the wife or check your gut (higher self / spirit guides) if your on the right path - life intention / purpose. If your gut does not feel right on it step back and question..

Once I was doing a session with a girl (meeting with a lot) near the veterans cemetery where my parents are buried. I had recently visited the grave site. For some reason the alarm / beeper in TV started going off - had to unplug it to stop it. Was somebody trying tell me something or just coincidence?

Weed will be sold here with on line ordering, no credit cards, staggered curbside pickup; serious limits on amounts available; shortages and long waits. Within 2 hours of landing in Denver i will have hit the daily one ounce limit at 4 weed stores and be on my way back. Nothing like cruising secondary roads smoking weed and being glad to be alive.

would you still monger? If one person could meet all your needs?

I've been married nearly 40 years. Faithfull all this time. I don't find or expect any one person could meet 'all one's needs". That's just too much to expect. I don't meet "all" her needs, she doesn't meet "all" mine. Fantasizing exists for this very good reason. We do have the 'for better or worse' deal going on where we discuss differences and accommodate best we can.

When I fell for strip clubs/lap dances, I told her I didn't think I could refrain from going occasionally. We worked out a deal of sorts on how much is 'occasionally''. And that I tell her afterwards that I indulged. Cause we did promise to not lie to each other. People vary. This works for us.

I might fondle some titties occasionally, but I am faithful to our deal.

Payer, it sounds like you're experiencing a spiritual awakening. Good for you.

But understand too that not everyone is built the same way. You are naturally anal and risk averse, as you have amply displayed over the years. That is not a criticism, just an observation. I suspect that you were experiencing self doubt and a bit of fear long before this virus surfaced and that this was just the straw that broke the camel's back for you.

OTOH, some of us are wired differently and are unlikely to ever completely avoid risk, but rather simply try to keep it from spilling over into important places. But I'm also confused about your examples of unhinged behavior - why does it have to be one extreme or the other?

It seems during transition periods another part of me takes over. I had a transition period in 2004 same deal. Then was nerve problem plus working in financial teaching college class at night. Now recovering from knee surgery in 1q. Then covid hit, going to PT wearing mask and gloves, lingering fallout from Oil price crash in 2015. Basically hunkered down in survival mode. People change it could be one (spirit) guide exerting more. Influence sensing a crisis. Many PL have change in philosophy horrified at risks or past spending. Or realize the total fake fantasy zone of SD relationship. Like a first officer alerting the captain of an airliner “sir we are losing altitude it’s so dark I can’t tell where the sky meets the sea do you have altitude reading? We are 45 min East of Honolulu.

Also I want warn guys of sex addiction with providers whether strippers, hookers, or SD site gals. A friend of mine went broke from it - a guy on a radio talk show listening to wS counseling a young man who had inherited 1.5 million and i the first month spent $20 k on strippers - the subject was sex addiction. The host hit the nail in the head. He told the young guy he needed to get with some GOOD people in a church, meet a nice girl or like any other addiction he will go broke.

Personally I am married now, been mongering sense I was 18 and we used to go to Montreal to hit the clubs. Now I just go occasionally on work travel or during a night out with the boys. Never done the sa or sb thing, not as into that. I just like the attention when I go and have a good time. I don't tell my wife, but if she asks, I don't lie either. Getting close to that 40 now, not sure if I'll up the game later in life, probably not. I gamble pretty extensively, so this is not my most expensive habit.