FYI: Tesla Cars

What model did you get?

Does it ride good?

Teslas are glorified Priuses.... They feel cheap given the price.

You must killin it out there Paul to be getting a Tesla damn

I took the Tesla SUV for a test drive last year, rides beautifully and very well made, fit and finishes are perfect, the reason I didn’t buy one was because there aren’t enough places to get quick charged yet, but if you don’t drive tremendous distances it is a great vehicle.

Tesla's are definitely status symbols where I live. I've always wondered how well they hold up over time and how reliable they are.

Given that they're mostly electronics one would think there isn't a lot to breakdown to make them unreliable but IDK

I am waiting for the Tesla service where you don’t own the car. It’s just pay per use like Uber.

It costs you $300 to fix a broken window motor, hate to imagine the upkeep and repair costs of a Tesla.

^ wow

Model S, Model X, Series 3, Roadster?

Eventually the huge battery will have to be replaced, and that must cost a fortune.

But overall they should be more reliable and less maintenance than combustion engine. For one thing, hoses, wires, and electronics are not baked by exhaust manifolds.

The cars are a huge status symbol where I am too. I think that is a big part of the Musk contribution, making them so big and expensive that they are a status symbol.

Tend to like the smaller cheaper, shorter range one's myself. Don't weigh as much.

Use combustion for longer trips. Long range electric is still something for the future.

SJG


Bleeding Communion Wafers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLxqzuVC…

This stuff is so far out that it becomes more like occultism than mere fundamentalism.

Ida, 47 million year old primate missing link to reptiles.
https://www.britannica.com/animal/Ida-fo…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinius

I got the Model 3 Performance. I plan on occasionally taking it to the track and the larger and slightly faster cars aren't capable of lapping a racetrack. The newer Model 3 is as it has newer batteries, motors, and cooling.

I also got solar from Tesla at the same time. I am not a crazy hippie enviormentalist. I just looked at it as a way to invest in a hard asset. For the next 30 years I have no electric or gasoline bill.

I can't see myself ever wanting a gas car as a daily driver ever again.

The craziest part of the car is there is no ignition. You come to a stop and just get out and walk away. No need to shift into park and turn off the if ignition.

No master switch to turn off?

Solar from Tesla, you mean the storage battery? You mean solar cells on your roof, Solar City? You don't charge the car off the electric grid?

Faster cars can't lap a racetrack? Why not? They would hit their top speed quite soon, then what?

I can see not wanting a combustion car for driving within its load carrying or range ever again. For me this still would seem to be shorter range, lower weight, lower costs.

You must have spent a lot of money on all this.

Do they estimate how long the main battery will last?

SJG

Solar city is gone, bought by Tesla and now called Tesla Energy. I bought a very large solar array but am still connected to the grid. During the day I sell power back to the grid and buy power back at night. My electric bill should be close to zero or I could even get paid by the electric company at the end of the year. My electric meter can spin forwards or backwards. This is called net metering. For those who live somewhere that doesn't allow net metering you need to buy a battery system to store power.

The Tesla Model S (which is a bit faster in a drag race than the model 3) has an older battery design. It can make single passes at a drag strip but on an actual racetrack it can not do more than a 1-2 laps before the batteries overheat and the car limits power output. The Model 3 has a newer battery system, better cooling and a build in "track mode" which allows somewhat continuous laps on a track.

The car's batteries are warrantied for 8 years/120k miles. That warranty also covers loss of range over 30%. But the consensus and history on Tesla batteries seems to be that they will lose 5-10% range over a 10 year span. And even if a whole battery bank goes bad they are pretty cheap used from a salvage car ($1000ish).

Bought Model S a few years ago and still love it. Acceleration! 200+ miles range (230 if you're grandma). Biggest hassle was no local Service Center so had to drive several hours for the yearly checkup - but just opened one local. Only real issue was door handle not presenting and they sent their mobile service out to fix that in the parking lot while I was at work.

@Paul Drake I can’t imagine that there are many salvage cars to pull batteries from, I don’t think that’s a very good option.

Usually the buy back rate is much lower than the purchase rate, and even where you live, it is not always sunny. Even for example, a gas fired clothes drier, still takes a good amount of electricity.

So you know how many kwhs the storage battery has?

I see what you mean about the race track, it would be the full braking, full throttle cycles which limit it, over heat a Model-S battery.

I also would not think you could get a replacement battery from salvage, and I am surprised if a new one is really as low as $1000.

Do you know how many kwhs your car's battery has?

series 3 does make a great deal of sense.


I remember also that you have a large workshop building. That could double the size of your solar array.

I knew that Solar City was merged back into Tesla, did not know the name change though.

Electric cars are heavy. Model S has lots of rubber, but probably still high pressure, and expensive special tires.

Do you know the weight and battery weight of your Series 3, and if the tires are special high pressure?

About the fast charge stations:

I have not read this anywhere, but it seems like there are going to be two high power circuits on an electric car. The first is for propelling it via the traction motor. The second is for braking via the traction motor.

I suspect that this second circuit is also used for charge regulation on a standard AC charger.

A key thing in power electronics is, is the input AC or DC. It is easier to design if the input can be AC, as that way you can use power handling devices which do not self-commutate. Many power handling devices do not, that is they cannot shut off. For example SCR's, Silicon Controlled Rectifiers. If you cannot use things like that then you have to use standard Bipolar or MOSFET transistors.

There are some newer power devices, but the basic issues are still the same.

So power coming off of the battery is always DC, so it is a problem. You just have to design the circuit larger.

But coming off of the traction motor or a standard charger, it should be AC. So it is easier.

Now for the high speed DC chargers, I suspect that what they do is use much larger power regulators built into the charge station. Then the loop is closed through the computer. But this is not really a dynamic real time controller, it is just semaphores. So check to make sure everything looks okay, then turn on some charge, check again and ramp it up, etc, until you are up to the maximum allowable, then shut off when done. Crude, but still quite effective.

For example, diesel electric rail locomotives used to be DC generation and traction motors. But since they are all AC for these reasons of a lack of self communtation in most of the power devices.

Model-S in my opinion the original version, was stupid. RWD only, but that limits regenerative braking. And then that long Maserati hood is copied from a car with a V8 engine in there. Dumb.

Later Model-S had two motors for AWD. Faster, but better also for regenerative braking.

Series 3, a more practical car, I assume is FWD only, and the hood space is kept small, almost like a Porsche, something with a rear engine. But the Tesla should have a front motor in there.

What does your "performance" model version give you?

Series 3 seems to be a practical well designed model, but not Model S.

If they wanted to, a good job could be done making the motor and the differential and any gear reduction concentric.

Do you know how your traction motor works, I assume no brushes on a commutator. Slip rings like an automobile alternator? Or does it actually work by inductive coupling to the amateur? And does the AC drive frequency change with RPM? Does it have optical scanning for commutation, and is this commutation integral with the drive electronic which takes the DC from the battery?

Some kind of cabin space heater and window defroster?

SJG

Huge Freshwater Reservoir Found Beneath Atlantic Ocean
https://weather.com/news/weather/video/h…

"... I can’t imagine that there are many salvage cars to pull batteries from, I don’t think that’s a very good option ..."

Perhaps w/ time as more Teslas haven been bought there may be more of these

^ right now Teslas seem to be very much a niche item

I would think that after tires and brake pads, the battery is the main failure item. And the tendency would be to recycle them, rather than to try and sell them used.

The long term economics and environmental viability of electric cars still remains unproven. In my humble opinion. But I do agree that they have a large appeal, especially for moderate distances.

SJG

@25 - So Tesla does some things really weird. They are very cautious about people rebuilding wrecked cars and make it difficult to to buy OE parts to do body repair other than at a certified shop. I think the idea is to prevent people from ghetto repairing the areas of the car containing the batteries and ending up starting fires. Because of all of this most of the time an insurance company will total out a Tesla a lot easier than any other make of car and there is a weird cottage industry of people who part them out and rebuild them.

So yeah used batteries are cheap and easy to get. However I definitely won't keep this car past it's warranty period so I don't really have anything to worry about.

Also I missed something you said previously about charging. Yeah there are definitely areas that are hard to get to as the charging infrastructure is still not as good as it needs to be. Soon they are going to release some adapters that will allow you to fast charge a Tesla on non-Tesla charging stations which will open up a ton of options. And one thing to remember is that unlike a normal car you leave your house with a full tank every day. So I know personally I doubt I will ever need to charge anywhere else.

@SJG - Net metering is 1:1. So I can buy and sell equally. However... if at the end of the calendar year I ended up making a surplus they will only pay me for that surplus at the wholesale price which is much cheaper. But on a day to day basis I can buy and sell equally.

My car has a 75kw battery and weighs just over 4000lbs. Not light but within a few hundred pounds of similar cars in it's class (BMW M3, Alfa Guila). It also has the lowest polar moment of inertia of ANY production car and one of the lowest CGs.

The front motor is AC induction and the rear motor is switched reluctance partial permanent magnet.

1:1 sell back to buy price for electricity, never heard of that before.

75kwh battery is a big battery. 4000lbs not that bad for electric. Does have front and rear motors, maybe that is what the "performance" model variation gets you.

AC induction I assume avoids all brushes or slip rings. Permanent magnet, maybe for flat battery electrical braking?

Anyway, the technology trade offs are clearly going to be complex.

I gather that long term repair and maintenance are complex as well.

To get say 75kwh in like 5 hours, would require a very large and very expensive solar cell array, and that would only give you 75kwh in 5 hours on a clear sunny day.

Then to keep up with refrigerator, washing machine, and gas fired clothes drier, it would still take quite a bit of kwh. And then the storage battery would have to be quite large, as much of this would be after dark.

Does Musk now make his own batteries in Sparks NV?

Usually I have been attracted more to shorter range, smaller sized, smaller battery, and lower cost electric cars. Then having a combustion car for longer ranges. I also very much like the bicycle.

SJG

Tesla has a secret lab trying to build its own battery cells to reduce dependence on Panasonic

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/26/tesla-se…

Its a shit car, its just expensive and marketed as exclusive and luxurious. Im not at all impressed by them.

I'm sure you must know about this Paul,

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/forums/m…

SJG

Paul, you probably have the long range dual motor, and the "Performance" is included in this, to get the higher curb weight

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Mode…

Its pricey, but it is a better design than Model S.

https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#batt…

Much higher top speed than I would have expected.

SJG

Battery is main cost component, that is how I saw it too, a lot more than $1000 for a battery.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/26/tesla-se…

https://ihsmarkit.com/research-analysis/…

SJG

@PD the issue for me was there are days that I have a two or three hundred mile round trip, if I need to charge up, it will add hours to my trip time, the other problem some folks like to do road trips, there are many places where there is no convenient charging locations. Makes it difficult to get to your destination, then have to uber to go out for dinner while the vehicle is charging, at a motel someplace, like I said it's a beautiful vehicle, drives great and all, but there is still a lot that needs to be done before this becomes an alternative to fossil fueled vehicles, meanwhile I'll stick with my Benz, it too drives like a dream, quiet and fast, and as comfortable as just about anything out there.

@loco BTW your definition of a shit car is amusing, guess my Benz is the same, or is it just jealousy on your part cause all you can afford is a pogo stick.

^
Lol :D

25, I recently got rid of my BMW and got a 2017 Challenger SRT Hellcat. I'm more than happy with my more affordable, reasonable purchase. I don't need the latest, newest toy.

^ rides like a skateboard with no suspension

I like cars that ride hard.

25, yeah, EV's still not so great for those very long travel legs. I think most people who have EV's also have a combustion car.

For myself, I would be happy with a shorter range lower cost EV than what Paul has got. But I can see why it is fun for him, low cost of electricity, and then with his own solar cells.

SJG

One drive motor and a smaller capacity lighter battery would give better electrical energy efficiency. But I can see, as electricity costs are low, and then Paul with his own solar farm, the fun is in getting a maxed out Tesla, two motors, high capacity battery.

I wish Tesla would make a 2+2 2door Coupe. It might be mostly the same as a Series 3.

SJG

So PaulDrake, does your Tesla have a cabin heater and window defroster? How does it work?

SJG

Lmao sjg your trolling skills are great

^^^^ It's a real question, an issue with electric cars.

How do you think they should make the cabin heater work?

SJG

On a combustion car, cabin heating and window defrosting is done with waste heat.

For an electric car it will be an issue.

Here though they seem to be trying to use waste heat from the liquids which cool battery, electronics, and motors. Don't know how much that heat really amounts to though.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.4ELcX…

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/…

If you are going to use cell phone apps to turn on the heating, it would be nice if it could still be plugged into the charger when you do this.

Well, seems to come down to all electrical. I had not been sure that that had been the case.

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/ho…

https://www.teslarati.com/energy-saving-…


How can they cook in the Galley of Greta Thunberg's 60ft emissions free racing yacht? Does it have propulsion batteries and electric propulsion motors, for around port and for going windward, and can you get how showers? Most yachts do have diesel auxiliary power, and combustion cooking.


SJG

Big Bright World
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvZlDa_p…

@Nicespice I'm wondering if PD is even gonna bother answering this shit. I know he probably got an email about a response to his thread. Then once he saw it was from SJG he was probably like 'awww hell, this guy again'.

^ My guess is he turned off email notifications a long time ago like I have.

TFP and twentyfive, it is the two of you imbeciles who are posting worthless spam.

SJG

WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:

san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate

I guess I can say I'm glad I have a bad ass Prius .

Interesting discussion about the design of the Tesla. But no one addressed the concern in the original post: how to cope with the GPS tracking that identifies your car's location to your significant other.

On the subject of electric cars - heard on the news that Germany is concerned about electric vehicles (EVs) becoming dominant since it would displace a big chunk of its auto-workers since EVs are supposedly much simpler to make thus requiring many less workers to produce them (EVs require significantly less parts and complexity vs conventional gasoline cars)

Tesla is a very PC car. I hope you crush lots of pussy in the back seat.

Electric cars should be lower manufacturing labor and lower maintenance labor. For one thing, they are not baking all the hoses, wires, and electronics.

If Tesla's are using GPS, it is intended to be for the user's benefit, whether it always works like that or not.

SJG

^^^^^ I agree with you. But what you are saying will require a contraction of the numerical dollars size of our economy.

We need to do this. But Capitalism has always depended upon continuous expansion and expansion at an ever increasing rate. We already produce more than we need of all goods and services.

So it is hard for most people to accept that we cannot continue to operate this way. But the evidence has been there in each one of these recessions, and the first of these came about in the 1870's, starting with the steel industry in the UK.

SJG

I am not ready for a fully electric car. Hybrid yes fully electric no. Golf cart I would go electric. lol

All UBI will do is give people too much time to get in trouble. The first recession in this country was in 1812. At the end of the day, the left and young people have declared war on America. You are my enemies. I am almost 62 and I will use or destroy as much as I can and leave you with as little as possible.

I shouldn't be remotely surprised that this thread is no longer about Tesla cars...

VH, at this point the only way to keep the peace is Social Democracy. Neoliberalism and Neofascism are disaster.

SJG

Porsche Taycan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfnLv80f…

SJG

$150k
https://www.businessinsider.com/porsche-…

SJG

Taycan 5200 pound curb weight. Not as bad as I expected. For EV's this is always a problem. It is a problem for most of the current cars in my view, comparing to what cars had used to weigh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Ta…

Says that the rear motor has a 2 speed transmission.

I wish Porsche would made a 2 door 2+2 EV. Musk has never made such, and that type is of course Porsche's primary type.

Musk has never faced any competition till now.

SJG

Hey, if I were Governor of California, I would not mind taking her to Africa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBg5cnoN…

I like the looks of that Taycan.

Panamerica has a longer hood, combustion engine space. Electric car does not need that. So it does look more like a 4dr 911.

Taycan, well done!

Does it have any bugs or issues though?

SJG

I think Stuttgart has got a winner in this Taycan. 800 volt system, double what most EV's have. So it passes less current, so it can do more hard accelerating and breaking without overheating the battery.

So long as there are no serious problems which they cannot quickly retrofit, I think it will go over real well.

I find it very attractive, and seemingly well worth the $150k.

I am very experienced with things like this German.

Porsche showing off the car model
https://images.fineartamerica.com/images…

SJG

So the tesla has a nav system that uses google maps. If you start typing "home depot" and it has the full power of google maps and usually finds what you're looking for within a few keystrokes. But even cooler is that you can enter in addresses or search places while you're driving. There is no lockout at all.

However... I noticed today that the in car nav place search does not have any strip clubs! I guess they wanted to not have any NSFW places on it.

fukin prudes.

Should be able to get to TUSCL from the car.

:) :) :)

SJG

How Porsche's First Electric Car (The Taycan) Is Made
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoS8oYi4…

What is the BEST Fuel to Use in Your Car or Truck and WHY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb5VfiFy…

SJG

What's inside a Tesla Engine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvLmBfwm…

SJG

Didn't notice this post when it first appeared, but, Paul, what happens when you lose your phone or a dancer steals it?
Walk or taxi time???

^^^^^

:) :) :)

Clubber +10

SJG

@clubber - The more realistic worry would be "What if my phone runs out of battery?". And for that the car comes with an RFID credit card I keep in my wallet. Or I could call my wife from someone else's phone and she can unlock and "start" the car from anywhere in the world.

So a Porsche Taycan has a 5,200 lb curb weight.

Paul, do you know that the curb weight of your Tesla is, and how much of that is the battery?

SJG

I'm kind of waiting for the Porsche Taycan. It looks amazing, I love everything about it so far and since it's just going to be a car for weekends I don't have to worry a lot about making sure I'm within charging stations most trips.

It is interesting, but if I were to own that or the Tesla, or anything similar, they would be daily drives.

There is a battery shelf life issue, as I know.

SJG

Teslas are great for the self-driving. With our custom rick mode you can emulate driving drunk without actually driving. Just sit back with a gimlet in one hand and a rickarita in the other and watch the hairless apes bounce off your hood. Good times!

But the good thing about rick mode is the specificity. What it does is avoid the hotties and the apelings. If I were actually driving I might mow over a hottie. Why would I want to do that? In rick mode the computer only targets uggos and male apes. ROAR!!!

I guess these are disposable Lithium batteries, not rechargeable?

SJG

"expect hard working people to subsidize their useless lives?"

Yeah, Senile-Suicidal Skibum yelling out the bared window of his locked nursing home.

The poor have always worked harder. Had to. No different today. A poor person uses more brains each day than a rich person uses in a month.

I hadn't realized how serious it was at the time, but we never should have let Reagan set up the IRA and 401K accounts. These actually get a tax break, and all they are is an attempt to undermine Social Security.

Far better that retirees and the jobless get supported off of current tax revenue, than that people are encouraged to try and hold onto money and use it to inflate the stock and real estate markets.

Keynesianism and its high progressive taxation, max 90% to 70%, worked perfectly for over 40 years. Never failed, except maybe when OPEC formed because the middle-eastern nations wanted something more fair for their oil.

Only the very shallowest of booms and busts under Keynesianism. An entire generation of Americans really had it good. Get a good job, buy a house, support a family, and know that you will be taken care of in old age, if you get sick, or if you become disabled. Who could want more?

Were there problems, yes racial, and women were left out, and there was very little protection for the rights of children. The rich did not have that much control over our democracy, not with the high taxes, and even a smaller split between owners and workers on pre-tax incomes.

So what happened? Well there was a back lash against the War on Poverty, the women's movement, and the civil rights movement.

And then the US had installed this Shah of Iran, and there was a revolution. Americans ended up being held hostage.

And the the Christian Right was furious that the federal government would dare to enforce the 1964 Civil Rights Act on Bob Jones University.

So Americans who had had such a great thing, voted against it and elected an icon of reaction, Ronald Reagan.

Soon Poor People were seen as Bad People, and like Reagan said, "I'm for an American where everyone can get rich." And what does that mean, it means controlling the land, the labor, and the capital. It means you want to get rich by making other people poor.

So soon our cities started to fill with homeless and the national debt started to explode.

And who gets the most benefit from taxation and spending?

Well it is those who collect wages, salaries, service fees, and business profits.

They get these because there are people who have money to spend. And what keeps this mid sector of the socio-economic hierarchy in place is taxation and spending.

If Skibum does not like this, let him relinquish his income.

Most every society has always divided into the very rich and the very poor. And this later does not have much beyond subsistence. And that very rich is just a handful of people. The rich get this by social affiliation, and by owning the means of production.

So taxation and spending, going back to the New Deal, is what sustains our middle-class.

And if a benefit program gives the poor money, what do they do with it, they spend it.

The idea that everyone should have a personally financed retirement is absurd. Where I live the min income for home ownership runs around $140k per year. Prior to that, very had for someone to save money. Over half of the US population is only two paychecks away from defaulting on rent or mortgage.


And then why put it in the stock market, when they could put it into their own ventures? This would allow another generation to have a chance to use their skills and education. As it is today, this is uncertain.

An entire generation of Americans had a great thing. Even Nixon said, "We are all Keynesians." He never tried to cut taxes or social programs. He even tried to improve social programs with his 1969 Family Assistance Plan, giving federal money for welfare, exceeding what the South East had, and softening the cost bite on the North East.

Americans had it great, then they voted for Ronald Reagan and it has been down hill ever since.

What we needed was in 1980 to start moving towards Medicare for all, to UBI, to public housing, and to free college.

But with Reagan and the extreme wing of his party its instead been down hill.

Psychologists tell us today that the thing millennials worry most about is having enough money to retire. What an absurdity that our own people should have to worry about such a thing, and that they should look at the stock and real estate markets, making money off of other people, as the remedy.

San Jose State has 4300 homeless students, the vast majority employed and living in their cars, because they cannot afford anything else.

And even UCLA has had to set up a homeless shelter for their own students.

And the to add insult to injury, these people have to face the indignity of hearing the likes of Skibum yelling at them from his nursing home window, "Fucking miilenial loosers!"

And then Donald Trump and his Uncle Tom Ben Carson want to put the homeless and the poor into internment camps. And then after that, then who?

Well not on my watch. If they try, then its going to be bullets, bayonets, and bombs.

Tesla's electric pickup breaks the mould with angular design and armored glass
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-unv…

SJG

Forever - Papa Roach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yloxnSbN…

Amy Winehouse - You Know I'm No Good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-I2s5zR…

Lets gonshit truck driving

Lol funny stuff. With the new auto mute feature it's easy for outsiders to see who the thread creator has on ignore. I notice that every single one of SJG's comments in this thread is muted. Good choice, Paul.

Good work Paul

How does the cabin heater / defroster work on an EV? Got any links?

Does it take much range away from your traction battery?

What kind of an EV should Meat72 be looking at?
https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7768…

SJG

OMS Martinists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0octoNH…

No problem with the constant position reporting. Just set the autodrive to drive to a nearby shopping center, stopping at the club on the way. Then, have the car drive itself back, stopping briefly by the club so that you can climb back in. Easy peasy!!,😜