Rejected review and my message to Founder

Being honest here you really give me no information about the club, the costs or what kind of atmosphere I can expect if I do decide to try this club, now saying that I generally only vote on clubs I’m familiar with because I don’t feel it’s fair otherwise. You should of at the very least given the costs which might make this review useful to me, not interested in names more interested in typical types, and what I might expect to experience if I chose to visit.

So, this review is about you singular and personal experience with one dancer, and not much else.

What's missing is information about the club itself, other dancers, costs (dancer related or otherwise), the atmosphere, dance privacy, etc. Your experience with Secret is fine if it's mixed in with other useful club information. But, if that's all your providing then it's not as useful, especially since Secret may not give all customers the same treatment by default.

Sorry. I would have rejected this review.

One can't go by "I've posted X # of reviews over the years and they've always been published" - in the past there was no review-vetting beyond an automated-check that would automatically reject a review that was too-short.

Beyond lots of crappy reviews, the review system was previously being abused by reviewers solely interested in VIP to the point there were reviews that would copy/paste the same 3 or 4 sentences several times in order to get past the minimum review length auto-check.

Thus a while back Founder put in place the system where TUSCL VIP members would vote on reviews - the current system is far from perfect given there are humans involved and humans w/ different opinions of what a good review is; but the current system most agree is an upgrade over what was in place in the past and as a result there is much less abuse of the review-system - TUSCL is a one-man shop and Founder obviously cannot vet reviews in any significant way/#s, so he has to rely on what VIP TUSCLers decide via the voting process even if it's not perfect.

w.r.t. your review specifically, it's pretty-much as minnow posted in his rejection comment, reads more like a personal-journal entry - in essence, you are reviewing yourself and just talking about yourself and the one or two girls you like; you are not reviewing the club as a whole nor describing the club as a whole.

If I'm unfamiliar w/ the club and plan to visit the area and scouting clubs to visit, your review pretty-much tells me zilch about the club - IMO a review needs to be written from the POV of someone who's never been there, o/w you are not really providing much worthwhile info other than just sharing a personal story.

I think personal stories are good and it's good to personalize a review/visit; but that can't be the whole review - there should be a paragraph that kinda describes the club in a nutshell and this should only take 3 or 4, maybe 5 sentences - the basics covered should at least be prices (cover-charge; parking; dance-prices; VIP (if you partake); etc); description of the dancer-crew as a whole not just talk about your fave; and mileage overall for the club - drinks and other stuff should also be covered but not as critical as the girls (their looks, mileage; and costs), are the main-thing most custies care about.

And the excuse some reviewers use of "well those details have been covered before", IMO is not valid - if this is allowed then most reviewers will do the same shit out laziness and a reader unfamiliar w/ the club may have to read 10-reviews to piece-the-club-together vs just reading 1 or 2 properly written reviews.

One last note to those guys saying that those items have been covered already so I’m not gonna bother, well if I need to read their reviews to get the information I want why should I give you a free months VIP

Pete, I agree with you to an extent...

Before I tell you what I agree with you about, I'll say, it's worth knowing the forum review culture. On the previous forum I was on, your review would be welcomed. The most valued reviewers were those who wrote amazing fun trip reports. On this forum, the trip report format is not valued. I don't share the same values, but can't do anything about it; I just know it's not worth writing trip reports here, just stick to review format.

So, anyway, I may never understand why yet another review that describes the drink prices and dances prices, is more valuable than one that describes good or bad interactions with particular girls (without linking those girls to anything illegal or against club rules). Now I know Secret is a PL-pleaser and not a hustler ... how is that less useful than reading the 10th review in a row that says the lap dances are $20 and the drinks are $8 and the lap dance room is off to the left? I like reading trip reports, honestly, provided they give some type of useful information -- Mocha is sweet and you can't wait to see her again, Diamond is a hustler who cuts songs short, that's stuff I like to know.

Again, though, TRs are not valued on this site. Keep that in mind, you're not going to change it, so write reviews rather than TRs.

Team WinningTeam all up in yo face!

Don't know that I would have rejected it. But I would not have approved it. There is not much info in the Review that tells me anything about the club.

^ Like you troll every place else just disagreeing with everyone for shits and giggles

^ that was to loco

Warrior -- and not to pick on you! You're just the last guy to post --

"There is not much info in the Review that tells me anything about the club."

I don't know the club or how many reviews it has. But assuming that, like many clubs, there's plenty of other reviews that tell you about ambiance and lap dance prices, and other speeds & feeds type info, is being forearmed knowing at least one PL found Secret great, and not a hustler, useful? IF this were your first time at the club, and Secret came up to you, would you be glad you knew she's one of the good ones (or at least gave one PL a dance he was happy with)?

When Secret danced for you, did she stick her fist in your ass? Because you sound butthurt.

It's not a good review. I dont approve or reject reviews as I dont like the system, but it doesnt give anything. No ratio, no prices, no mileage factor, etc. I can see why pickier peeps than me downvoted it. Now go take some advil for your heartburn and get over yourself.

^ but if I go in there looking for secret based on his review I don’t even know what shift or days I’m gonna get that secret experience

Her name is SECRET. duh!

:)

^ That’s a secret bro 😂

"... being forearmed knowing at least one PL found Secret great, and not a hustler, useful ..."

Useful in the sense that it has its place in the review - not that it's enough for it to be the whole review - it's a comment at best - o/w it's a pretty-low bar

Knowing about Secret would mean:

a) I can find her in the club when I visit

b) I can manage to visit the club when she's there

c) ends up being my type - one PL's '9' is another PL's "wouldn't give her the time of day"

Basing a whole-review off just talking about one dancer is not enough IMPLO

^ mean should have been assume

loco you’re the one using bigotry I take people at face value you otoh are just a snot nosed kid trying to act tough but failing miserably

Yeah I would totally reject that. No club details, no details about the level of mileage, no prices. Yet the review mentions names which are bad IMHO.

^ He doesn’t bother me one bit, this is typical of you shithead trying to derail someone else’s thread that’s why we need block, not because anyone cares what you say it’s because you couldn’t get the responses your looking for on a thread you start. Your own threads are you and SJG talking to yourself became normal people just aren’t interested in your shit n shit now quit this thread or don’t idgaf I’m done with your useless ass.

You said you paid for the following things: cover, drink, dances, and tip. However, you never stated how much you paid and you didn't state what happened during the dance (were you allowed to touch breasts or pussy, did your dick come out, etc). I can see why your review was rejected.

"Furthermore, NONE of the comments from the three idiots (that's being polite) who chose to reject it are in any way accurate, and I'm confident any sane individual would see it the same way."

Let's put this to the test. I've seen some pete's other teviews and gotten something out if them. Not so with this one. I also happen to think the current Rick's in Seattle isn't fit to be a pimple on the ass of Rick's back in its dot com booming UHM heydey. But having been to that club myself in the past year or so, this review is not evocative at all.

It's a little long and detailed to be a shill review, but it is 90% or more fluff. I might not have downvoted it, but I probably would have ignored ir and left it up to other voters. When I see a review that starts with I always go to see muffy, my question is usually who is muffy and do I care? Why do any of us care if you don't like getting your review rejected? Should we care?

You don't want your reviews getting rejected? Write better reviews.

An utterly useless excuse for a "review". Then, you try and shame the VIP members who rejected it because it would have been a waste of space to post? You're pathetic.

That was possibly the worst review I've ever read.

We have a new title holder for Whiniest Bitch.

Wholeheartedly agree with what Subraman posted. I only go to PTs and Baby Dolls. I have reviewed the clubs more than once but not often. If there’s something new to report, I’ll make a note of it (i.e. PTs now has pineapple juice mixers and shrimp dishes, cover charge went up, etc). I am not going to post the layout of the club or VIP and cover charges in every review, especially if the club has more than 2,000 reviews like Baby Dolls does. Besides, there’s already a stats section for each club with prices and business hours.

The only thing left to do is write trip reports or write about the dancers.

I don’t get why one of the reasons was incoherent. OP’s review read well.

Desertscrubs reject comment was useless. The other two were good.

"... now saying that I generally only vote on clubs I’m familiar with because I don’t feel it’s fair otherwise ..."

I take the opposite view - as I mentioned, when writing a review IMO it's best to assume the reviewer knows nothing about the club - it's safe to assume many, if not most readers, read the review of a club to find out what the club is about - reading a review of a club I know nothing about means I can more clearly see the pertinent info that's missing since IDK that info to begin with - I think many of us that have been TUSCLers for a while get afflicted w/ familiarity-bias where reviews missing a lot of info doesn't phase-us b/c we know that particular club inside-out - similar to guys that just stick to mainly one club for years; or just clubs in one-region/city; then express opinions on all clubs based on their experiences w/ their particular club or few clubs in their area.

"... I am not going to post the layout of the club or VIP and cover charges in every review, especially if the club has more than 2,000 reviews like Baby Dolls does ..."

IMO then you are writing the review from your POV instead of the reader - so if the reader doesn't know what you know, tough? Go fish it out among the other 2000 reviews?

^ that’s the way I see it though Not that I don’t ever vote on clubs I’m not familiar with, but sometimes I see a review that seems irrationally exhuberent, and think to myself is this a club ad or an inexperienced PL so I defer to others hoping someone more familiar will give some input

-->"Go fish it out among the other 2000 reviews?"

You don't have to fish it out among the other 2000 reviews. Most tuscl reviews have those details, since this is a drink price and lap dance cost centric review site. It's incredibly easy to find those details. In fact, I'd venture to guess no one researching a club reads one single review. They're going to read the first 10 (or whatever) reviews anyway, of which, 9 will have lapdance cost and drink prices on it. And, if there are also TR type reviews, you'll also be able to build up a picture of good dances and hustlers. Which is why I think the "every review should be a self-contained review of every facet of the club (except the actual girls)" is made far more useful if there's also TRs

People who like speeds and feeds reviews don't need to stop posting them, no reason to think those numbers won't keep coming in. But given that they're repeated ad nauseum, some g-2 on good and bad dancers is just the ticket

I think if you just add in a few details the others talked about above you can leave in everything else.

I think those other details might add three sentences to your review.

I write many POV reviews but just make sure I add in the other details so people know what to expect. Knowing names is important as long as it doesn't involve illegal acts.

There are plenty of reviews submitted daily w/o stating prices - it's not a rare-occurence and one of the main-reasons for many of the down-votes.

I think the club basics should be described in every review b/c again likely most readers have not been on TUSCL on a regular-basis for years (it's that familiarity bias).

I don't look for a reason to down-vote a review - I usually look for a reason to up-vote it - meaning for me a review does not have to hit every aspect of the club but it has to hit a few beyond just "I love my fave Bambi"

I have a serious question for all you guys who, when looking at club reviews, think you're the Black Knight preventing King Arthur from passing through: If the founder doesn't give a rat's ass about anything that's posted on this site (and he has made it extremely clear he doesn't care at all), why do YOU care so fucking much? Approve the damn review.

"I have a serious question for all you guys who, when looking at club reviews, think you're the Black Knight preventing King Arthur from passing through."

I'm driving right now, so you're reading whatever my phone thinks I'm saying. The deal is whoever wrote the review took the time to show up in the forearms and whine about it. I think I'm pretty flexible on what I'm willing to be okay with or not so far as reviews go, my criteria is whether or not I thought whatever got posted told me something that would help me decide whether or not to go visit the club. That's 95% the reason I'm still reading TUSCL anyway. do I think some folks are going a little overboard with the feedback? Sure. But that's the same crowd that goes overboard over just about everything. if a club has a ton of reviews already, then I'm not really that Keen on adding a bunch of fluff because that's just more for people like me to have to sort through if they're going to visit that town.

seattle. just add price of valet, price of cover, price of drink, price of dance, bar and restroom location and troll. good review otherwise.

The inmates run the asylum on TUSCL these days and they want a current review that doesn't require them to read a second review! While the occasional mention of club price particulars are helpful, it's unnecessary if the previous reviewer has all that covered. If my mixed drink is under $12, it won't change my dynamic. but it will some hobbyists. Now when the drink game in the club has a gimmick (as in buying a dancer a drink rings in at $20 plus a drink or more) sound that alarm as often as you please. The extreme cons used by many dancers and certain clubs can't get mentioned enough, but generic pricing and it's mention here is overrated.

seattlepete: Your attempted contribution (while needing a proofread) was a far greater contribution than scrub's ubiquitous shill ad thumbs down.

I disagree with desertscrub calling this a shill review and minnow calling it incoherent.

However I agree with clubber rejected it for not enough detail.

I like the visit summary format with specifics about the dancer(s) you spent time with and I also like including those dancers' names as long as you don't go into detail about anything that could get her in trouble. However, a worthwhile review needs more than just that.

I think you believe this club is good overall, but from the review it seems like there is generally only 1 worthwhile girl per shift, usually it is Olivia but she was off that night so Secret was the only decent girl on shift.

I don't need a full layout of the club, full pricing structure and full lineup report in each review, but give me something useful from the perspective of someone that has never visited. Is the club a dive or upscale? Are the dancers mostly skinny white meth addicts or curvy Latinas? Are dances $5 or $30 per song? Are the dances air or full contact?

"... The inmates run the asylum on TUSCL these days and they want a current review that doesn't require them to read a second review ..."

What's the purpose of writing a review then saying "if you want information about the club then go read some other reviews; club information is mentioned somewhere in another review" - one is supposed to REVIEW THE CLUB, not write a love-letter about Bambi.

Again - most that participate on the discussion-board are club and TUSCL vets so you may not need the club details; but arguably most readers we are not aware-off are not TUSCL vets that know the details you've read 100 times.

So, here's the thing: no one reads a single review, and says, "okay, I'm not reading even a second review -- I'm definitely going". Anyone making a decision on going to a club is going to read a bunch of reviews. No, each review shouldn't have to repeat the same information over and over and over again, and doesn't need to be a self-contained every-detail-on-the-club-except-the-girls independent piece. Is it really so terrible if a guy reads 10 reviews, and only 7 of them mention the price of the lapdance and cover? After the 2nd or 3rd lapdance price mention, does it become MORE useful to read TRs and start learning about the girls?

Let the guys who write prices, write prices. Let the guys who do TRs, do TRs. As long as they increase knowledge of the club, for the guy reading a whole bunch of reviews to make his decision, it's all goodness.

I didn't know anything about Dreamgirls so just checked the reviews. First 6 reviews mentioned prices in some way, most also mentioned overall ambiance, stripper hotness, etc. Seventh review also mentioned prices, but also details about a stripper (irony: it was Secret). I appreciate all the reviews, but after 6 reviews re-confirming ad nauseum the prices, what the girls are like, etc., what's really missing is any g-2 on which girls are great and which girls suck. At least the way I like to research a new club.

All of that said, OP's review was a little light, regardless. But I still stick up for the TR type review. If I weren't so lazy, I'd go look for more and upvote them lol

it takes more time and effort to have to read multiple reviews, especially if one is hitting a new area and wants several choices, than writing a couple of simple sentences giving club details - if one wants to be sympathetic of the writers, then why not be sympathetic of the readers.

-->"then why not be sympathetic of the readers."

I am sympathetic of the readers. Which is why, if what they have time for is to read 5 reviews, instead of reading 5 reviews that all repeat the price of lapdances, the price of drinks, the cost of entrance, the location of the stage, the location of the bar, and the overall attractiveness of the girls -- which, by the way, is all fantastic information -- I think the reader could also use some specific g-2 on girls they might run into. It's exactly what the reader wants, and they shouldn't have to read 10 reviews that just repeat prices and stage & bar locations, to find out about the girls

I've posted in the past that the free VIP is a big-part of the problem b/c it causes many to write reviews just for VIP instead of writing them b/c they want to - b/c of the free-VIP and thus resulting higher # of crappy reviews, IMO there then needs to be a counter-weight of review-vetting so they won't be so watered-down

"... instead of reading 5 reviews that all repeat ..."

repeating the club info in 3 or 4 sentences is not a big deal - one can quickly skim over that in subsequent reviews once they know that info - putting that info does not preclude saying w/e else the reviewer wants to put in there including how he can't live w/o Bambi - problem is too-many reviews often say "blah blah blah it's been covered before"

I don't see why having a minimum requirement for club info is such a big-deal, and anyone writing anything should be a-ok especially when they are getting something for it

The same amount of effort going into writing the sentences that this has all been done before and I'm not gonna rehash the same thing over again, all he needed to write there was a $XX cover drinks were $XX is the difference between getting approved and not getting approved, I mean really is that the hill you want to make your stand on. get your review approved for gods sake than you'll have a chip in the big game.

There are a good # of TUSCL reviewers that have written 100+ reviews and they still always write the basics of the club - I don't see why the minimum for a review should be write w/e you want when others that write lots of reviews take the time every time to provide the proper info - I think have a minimum requirement is overall more helpful than having no requirements

AGain, I might agree that OP's TR was a little light, but if he added in a bit more about Secret -- when she usually works, etc. -- no brainer that's more useful than re-repeat the 6 (again, I counted them) previous reviews that all had prices, club layouts, etc. An artificial and unneeded minimum bar just serves as an excuse for the pedantic to downvote otherwise good info. Rejecting a review because it's light on info overall, I get. Because it hasn't repeated the info from the 6 previous reviews, but otherwise has interesting info on actual girls in the club? Doesn't make sense to me.

"... An artificial and unneeded minimum bar just serves as an excuse for the pedantic to downvote otherwise good info ..."

I agree - I personally won't down-vote a review b/c it doesn't specifically have 'X' detail - it just that often time it's more of "... a review because it's light on info overall, I get ..." - i.e. most well-written reviews seem to have most pertinent info, most poor-reviews seem to lack a lot of pertinent details

I'm sure Olivia and Secret appreciated the shout out, but otherwise this was a non-review review. I would have rejected it too. As 25 said, if he had just added a couple of sentences that actually covered the state of affairs - costs, the crew, or almost anything, he'd have been fine.

Just another guy whining when he writes a shitty non-review that gets rejected. If this is what he won't be adding anymore, then I don't see any loss.

^ but then we won't know about Olivia and Secret

Rick: not arguing the review was light. Arguing this notion that every review has to include some standard lists of costs. I'd take a TR with good details on 3 girls in a heartbeat, given that the previous 6 reviews all probably have all the costs anyway (they do in the case of dreamgirls). In this particular review, the info on Olivia was not exactly useful (she wasn't there), and even on Secret it was a little light

@Subraman why not include, I mean really getting all butthurt about something you’re aware of is ridiculous, guys written some good reviews he’s been here a while, what’s the point, no matter how you spin it unless founder takes back the approval process like he did with the block, your just doing a dice roll by omitting details that most look for. That’s where we are all the whining in the world ain’t gonna change it

I blame Subraman and his negativity for the Warriors loss - wait to go Subraman - jeez these left-coast people

Sub, I don't disagree per se. I've approved reviews that didn't have cost intel. But when it's absent then for me it needs to include some other very specific club and crew intel for me to approve. This review had absolutely nada that I could sink my teeth into.

For those that have been hitting the same club for years, yeah club details are "repetitive" - but one should assume most readers in the vast World Wide Web have not been hitting that club for years.

Where the hell is that block function

^ @25 - do you know?

25: ya, agree, I said that up front -- as a practical matter, at this point an experienced reviewer should realize that this is a "dance cost and bar location" review forum, and he should consider including that stuff, regardless. But it's still a good opportunity to pimp the TR type reviews.

Wait, the Warriors lost? Will someone please check on Secret to see how she's taking this?

The review is terrible.

"I stopped by the other night hoping to see Olivia again..."

• Who the fuck is Olivia? If you read a book that just starting talking about some people with any description or history or context, you'd throw the book away!

"Paid my cover and took a seat in the center of the room so I would have a good view of the stage..."

• How much was the fucking cover charge?! Do you think I read reviews just to read about YOU? What the fuck? I read reviews for information, dumbass! And then you took a seat in the center of the room.... what, was there just one chair in the middle of an empty room, and stage? That's it? A chair, and a stage, in a room. Give us something! How were the seats arranged, were there any tables, were the seats comfortable, where was the bar in relation to the room, where was the bar in relation to the stage, how big was the stage, how many polls were there, how high were the ceilings, how was the lighting, how was the music, was there a DJ? So many questions, ZERO ANSWERS!

"When I ordered my drink from the waitress,"

• How much did you pay for the fucking drink, and what was the drink??! Was the waitress cute? Did she take a long time getting your drink or was it immediate service?

I could go on. But seriously, the entire review really reads as an accounting of your own personal and subjective experience. That is not what the reviews are for! I want useful information that will allow me to make an informed decision about whether or not I should go to the club!

Your review deserved the rejection that it received.

Damn - now I gotta know more about Secret

Maybe that was the reviewer's strategy all along - he ninjaed us

Honestly - I don't think even Secret or Olivia would have approved that review

Yeah I know - that was cold - but it's called tough-love

^ I don't give a fuck about Olivia or Secret, what I want to know about is who's this Bambi you guys keep talking about sounds to me like she's a dear .

Olivia is the real ninja. It turns out she was in the club all along

LOL

It's a never ending web

I wouldn't doubt if there is some Russian collusion behind this having us at each other's throats - damn sneaky Russians

@25

If you don't know about Bambi by now you haven't been paying attention - plenty of reviews talking about Bambi - sure no info on prices or where the bathroom is, but they sure tell you how awesome Bamby is

I think Subraman may have been locking down Olivia all along and feels bad for the reviewer and why he's taking his side - understandable

Subraman is a narcissist ; ))

Olivia and Secret are now officially the 2 most popular dancers on TUSCL

After reading this entire thread I realized, only MisterWonderful has mentioned the truly important piece of missing information: the location of the restroom (because, of course, none of us could find it on our own!)

RD: Just another guy whining about a rejected review. That's kind of rich when in the last 6 weeks you've written twice about what's in it for you to want to write a review these days. Then there's the complaints about people skewing the ratings. Dr. E's unfair take on a club that you recommended to him. Some reviewers don't drink, don't visit at night, and are not veteran strip club mongers and don't see the visit the way veterans here do. They are still contributing (unlike scrub). If I'm bored, my take is let me check out Olivia and Secret if I visit this club. I'm not that concerned about a generous pour!

FTS FTW!

i don't know anything about the club from your review.

what do Secret and Olivia look like? why did they appeal to you? \what kind of music did they dance to?

how many other dancers were in the club?

it's a bad review

I haven't read his other reviews, but if this crybaby thought this was a good review I wonder how his others got published.

I wish my life was so good a rejected review was a serious issue. I don't think it would break into my top 40 for the month june.

It would have been easier to copy and paste the old review and add the requested info at the top of the review than write his note to founder

I researched this info on these two dancers and it turns out Olivia only works Mondays from 11am til 11:30 am (cause she’s putting herself thru cosmetology school) and she’s a cow; and Secret, not her real (fake) name, has a third eye and NO boobs.

Just thought I would try to add to seattlepetes review so you all know what kinda girl he likes when he says “she was pretty attractive”.

IMO the review is borderline at best. I won't 100% reject a review because there are no prices, and/or no layout info. But this was simply "I had a good time with a dancer named Secret and she was the only one who I liked" That's not a review. A couple of things could have made it a good review:

1. Tell us about something about Secret and/or the general dancer types. Are they mostly old, haggard chunky, etc. or are they Barbie Doll types? Just because YOU liked her doesn't mean I would, and just because you didn't like the others doesn't mean I wouldn't. If you tell us they're mostly slim, young redheads but Secret was a thick dark chocolate, Papi & JS can decide if they wanna go.

2. Tell us the dances. What's the level of contact/intimacy in the private dances? Where are they done, out inthe open, private area, etc.

3. Tell us about the place. How's parking, how's security, how's the seating, how's the bar/waitress service.

You get the idea, tell us SOMETHING at least moderately objective beyond just subjectively how your visit went. You don't need to rehash every single detail, but at least pick something concrete.

I agree that once again DesertScrub's assertion that it's a Shill add is once again totally off base, but the rejection of the review I'd agree with.

To the point of improving the peer review system, I'd be in favor of making comments required for rejections. And maybe even removing the tick boxes. The idea being, if you're going to reject a review you really should be able to take 90 seconds to explain why its being rejected and what changes could be made to improve it. Truth be told, if he resubmitted the same exact review he's got a 50% chance or better to get approved.

I have never been to that club. I looked to the reviews to see if I want to go to a club when traveling. All clubs change in regard to prices, safety, girls, etc., this I want updated information. I like descriptions of the girls and the mileages, but that is all subject and many times personal to the point that I will get my own mileage if there are female dancers within; that being said, I do like more information on the actual club as well.

For what it is worth, the first 2 reviews at I ever wrote we rejected for being shill reviews. Neither were. Both were sincere regarding my positive experience. However, when I read them after rejection, I could see why they thought it was a shill. No butt hurt, just learning the ropes. I will eventually go back and review then with an updated trip. Personally, I do the reviews because it is fun and I like to be informative .. not just to get VIP.

Agree with most is these comments. It’s a borderline review at best. Don’t agree with removing the tick boxes for rejecting reviews. When the peer review system was first started, there were no tick boxes and comments were required to reject a review. I suggested adding tick boxes because it took to long to add comments every time for a rejection. I don’t know if Founder was planning on adding them anyway, but I see them the tick boxes as big plus. “Not enough details” is more than adequate for most rejections.

-->"IMO the review is borderline at best. I won't 100% reject a review because there are no prices, and/or no layout info. But this was simply "I had a good time with a dancer named Secret and she was the only one who I liked" That's not a review. A couple of things could have made it a good review:"

Totally fair -- as I've been acknowledging, this is awfully light even as a TR-style review. But the notion that every review has to repeat all the prices and club layout details that the previous 10 reviews all detailed is insane, as is the notion that information about which girls are awesome or hustlers isn't valuable enough for approval on its own. More discussion about other things, even if they remain TR-y rather than club facts, is a very fair constructive criticism. I'm sure there's lots of other interesting TR info beyond the fact that Olivia wasn't there (which she was, I just had her locked down, as Papi's dogged detective work revealed)

-->"Truth be told, if he resubmitted the same exact review he's got a 50% chance or better to get approved."

Yeah, I was going to post some examples of reviews of that club that did get approved, that had even less content than his. But with this kind of approval system, that's just the risk you take -- depends on who sees your review, which day.

Yeah I like the tick boxes - at first I would always write a comment but that became somewhat of a PITA constantly writing the same complaint over and over again (especially on the phone) - the boxes with the optional comment I think is a good balance [perhaps I can save a comment on my phone and copy/paste it since most of my rejects are for lack of details]

===> "Some reviewers don't drink, don't visit at night, and are not veteran strip club mongers and don't see the visit the way veterans here do. They are still contributing (unlike scrub). If I'm bored, my take is let me check out Olivia and Secret if I visit this club. I'm not that concerned about a generous pour!"

@rockie: Look man, I get all of that. If you could see the stuff that I've approved over time, you'd see that I'm far from the toughest review approver. I think that Clubber and desert are competing for that honor. I just want something, anything that SPECIFIC about how the club was that day. How many girls did he see and what were they like? What was happening on stage? Was the club busy or not? Something that tells me what it was like when he visited.

If he actually visited the club that day, then this should be an easy hurdle to clear. If a review is so generic that it's not even clear if he actually visited the club that day, then it's shit. For all I know, he is actually secret writing herself a cotton candy review.

Per the posts on this thread, seems most approvers are not looking/expecting for every single detail to be covered or that a specific detail be covered else it's a rejection - besides the fact he doesn't describe anything about the club or the dancer crew, only talks about Olivia and Secret; he barely describes them either - I don't see any reason for this review including we don't even know shit about Olivia nor Secret othe than 2 dancers by that name possibly exist - if this type of review is worthy of publishing then might as well not have an approval system (which I don't think is the way to go) - just bc you write something/anything doesn't mean it's worthy of publishing and VIP - seems the majority of folks didn't think it should have been published which is how a voting process should work (majority rules) - publishing this type of review is the equivalent of a participation trophy.

To state the painfully obvious, review approval is a VOTING process. The whole point of voting is settling a difference of opinion. Sometimes you will disagree with the majority. It shouldn’t take a hundred posts repetitively arguing two sides for everyone (including Seattle Pete) to realize sometimes the vote goes opposite from what you think. Whatever.

^ "It shouldn’t take a hundred posts repetitively arguing two sides for everyone (including Seattle Pete) to realize sometimes the vote goes opposite from what you think."

You're right. It shouldn't. But can you come up with a better way to have fun belittling this crybaby?

Seattlepete should have quit while he was behind. lol

"... It shouldn’t take a hundred posts repetitively arguing two sides for everyone (including Seattle Pete) to realize sometimes the vote goes opposite from what you think ..."

Yeah but this is TUSCL

@flag and papi

Yeah, my hopes were just a tad naive.

I used to drink booze when I went to the clubs. Now I don't. My reviews won't have booze prices, so I try to provide other useful information.

And that works.

seattle,

Perhaps an explanation from me as a rejector. If I look at a review, and see what I consider a factor in deciding on visiting an unknown club, $$$$$ (COSTS) matter. I realize ta club described as upscale will have higher costs, but that said, HIGHER is a very flexible term.

I don't mean to be a dick, but if Pete put as much time and effort into the review as he did his OP complaint, it would have been published.

"... I don't mean to be a dick ..."

Please - dick away - it's a TUSCL tradition

I don't mean to be a dick.

Who am I kidding? Of couse I do.

seattlepete’s review is still enough to put this club on my ‘to do’ list.

-->"I don't mean to be a dick, but if Pete put as much time and effort into the review as he did his OP complaint, it would have been published."

Apparently rejection is a difficult thing to psychologically manage. Backlash from rejection by a sexy dancer is more understandable than backlash from rejection by anonymous PLs on a strip club review site.

Funny how I destroyed an airplane shitter yesterday!

Because this thread needed a hundred posts, and McNulty is probably onto something...

after reading ALL OF THIS, I still have no idea of what secret, olivia, or the other girls in this club look like.

i still don't know what any prices are, what the racial makeup of the club was on that night, or any other details about the club.

But you do know the reviewer liked those 2 dancers in particular at this club! Now let's begin with the suggestion of no dancer names in a club. I agree (generally) with the concept that a review shouldn't link dancer names to any specific risque act in most clubs, but I don't find the Brunette Bubblebutt Latina informing my club visit any better. So when I walk into the club w 5 potential Latina's in the house and eliminate the "spinner" and another one w too much junk in the trunk. I'm still interviewing 3 potentials to find a reviewer's nugget. I'd rather a reviewer mention the lineup (if they can) and mention who they found the more appealing on their visit. So I find it more informative to walk into a club knowing which dancers have been acknowledged to be entertaining and quickly decide they are my type or not. If they aren't my type (strictly my problem), I peruse the lesser known and more often than not discover why they never get discussed here.

^^^ EXACTLY! Just saying that he likes these two dancers tells us nothing, maybe less than nothing.

Seattlepete might have a penchant for dancers that look like they are 14 or he might like the BBW thunder thighs ones. Without descriptions of what they look like or what things cost it’s meaningless and can send me across town to visit a place full of cows that think they are so special they won’t touch a dick for under $500.

but then again... they could be excellent.

it’s mysterious. and maybe worth checking out the next time i’m in seattle.

rockie: 100% agree.

I do think it is very fair to point out that, even by TR standards, the initial review was super light. I personally find it very valuable to know two names -- Olivia and Secret -- who are evidently CF material rather than hustlers or ROBs. But just a little more effort, he could have described those girls and the rest of the lineup, etc. So, sure, maybe not enough details.

My big point, with which you seem to agree, is: a review which focuses on the girls (without compromising them!) is more useful than the 10th review in a row which mentions drinks cost $8 and the stage is round and on the left. There has been a consensus building that there be some standard information required on club info (Papi alludes to it when he says "minimum requirement for club info"). That consensus is what I want to break to pieces. Insane to think the 10th review in a row that contains entry and drink prices, is better than one that omits those details but instead talks about which girls are awesome vs hustlers. No, every review should not be required to mention drink prices and lap dance prices or whatever. But yes, they should be required to have enough info to be useful.

@Subraman

But yes, they should be required to have enough info to be useful.<

and without some kind of iteration of a standard, how does a newbie know what info is useful, so ya we hear you, and get the fact that you want to break the mold, but there needs to be a reasonable baseline, for many here, that baseline is cost and layout information, most of the rest is subjective.

25: ya, I realize I'm out-of-step with many people here -- or at least the most vocal on the forum -- in that I find endless re-iteration of cost and layout to be not very useful. Again, based on Dreamgirls, after the 5th in a row that mentions those things, how is a sixth, that adds nothing to information about the club except to repeat the same cost and layout info, additive about the club? Answer: it's absolutely not, IMO. Which is why I think this is a forum-imposed artificial and unneeded minimum bar that just serves as an excuse for the pedantic to downvote otherwise good info.

How does a newbie know what info is useful? I really don't think this should be physics-exam difficult. If you want to talk just about the girls -- awesome! Saying you were looking for Olivia but she wasn't in the place isn't very useful. Describing her, why makes her so great, etc., that's real useful information that I, as a newbie to the club, could use. If more reviewers describe the girls, and what makes them awesome or hustlers, we start building a picture strippers to seek out or avoid. Pretty useful info! Crazy to reject that info just because it doesn't repeat that drinks are $8. Just use common sense and give enough info to be useful, newbies!

At a minimum the review should provide something to gives evidence that the reviewer was actually there and spent enough time to provide something of value.

If someone is going to write that dances are strictly air dances, why not just add that they are $10. It is about 5 more keystrokes and gives the added dimension of value.

Same with cover charges and drink prices. To say drink prices are average takes as many keystrokes as to say the beer was $6. But not giving the actual cost or range is indicative that they didn't actually visit.

If they get VIP is it asking too much for those details?

That is why I proposed a very unpopular idea, but I still like it.

Allow all reviews to be posted (don't silence anyone). Reward valuable posts with VIP. If the review gets enough "thumbs up" votes (say 3) in 2 weeks the reviewer earns the VIP status.

Anyone who doesn't like that idea is a fucking retard.

As an alternative, still post rejected reviews but don't reward them with VIP. In both scenarios the good reviews would be flagged with a "thumbs up" icon to differentiate it.

^"an excuse for the pedantic to downvote otherwise good info. "

I disagree. It provides an incentive to provide more than just the minimum.

But a review with absolutely NOTHING other than a description of his interactions with a single girl and a passing reference to another that wasn't even there? C'mon now, are you guys trolling now? 😀

As far as repetition of cost, most clubs are not reviewed daily and many not even monthly. So if the last review that mentioned costs was posted 4 months ago, how do I know that those numbers are still good? Some clubs play around with pricing structures all the time. It also happens to be one of the few tidbits that cannot easily be faked without risk of easy detection, which is why I'm far more inclined to easily approve a review that has it.

-->"Anyone who doesn't like that idea is a fucking retard."

This is how I feel about all my brilliant ideas also.

This subject has pretty much been beat to death, but I join those that say prices should always be included. They change over time and even by time of day, and of course dancer prices sometimes change by the minute or by the PL. But by scanning several reviews with price info you can get a sense of club pricing.

-->"I disagree. It provides an incentive to provide more than just the minimum."

Describing the girls, differentiating the awesome from the hustlers, is not "the minimum" -- it's gold-standard info everyone new to a club should want to near. No argument that OP didn't do that!! But dismissing actual useful info on the girls, because it didn't repeat the dance prices ad nauseum, is crazy, man!

Not a bad idea flagooner (I'm surprised it came from you)

In addition, I think Dolfan"s idea that he's posted in the past of adding a like-button to sorta identify the most helpful reviews to where one could sort a club's reviews by most liked or most helpful reviews, may allow for marginal reviews to be posted but not have the same weight/ranking when someone is researching a club

@subraman, that's all fine and dandy, for a review of Tootsie's or Baby Doll's but there's a ton of clubs out there that are active but don't often get reviewed, just in my area Monroe's a fairly popular club in WPB, not really a nationally recognized name, last two reviews are almost a year apart, so, not including the deets, or saying look at the last five reviews for layout and cost info, is a nonstarter, all of that info is old at the time I wrote that review.

@flagooner your idea is retarded, with all of the flaming going on, that would turn the anonymous nature of reviews into a popularity contest. I can see one of your frequent targets getting even with you by thumbs downing your reviews.

-->"But a review with absolutely NOTHING other than a description of his interactions with a single girl and a passing reference to another that wasn't even there? C'mon now, are you guys trolling now?"

Keep up Rick, I've already conceded the initial review was light! lol ... seriously, you all convinced me, it was light. I'm less interested in defending that review, than the notion that every review -- even if filled with gold-standard awesome info about the girls -- needs to have the basic-bitch drink and dance cost as a minimum bar.

-->" I can see one of your frequent targets getting even with you by thumbs downing your reviews."

I thought of that also. In a forum with some sane level of moderation, this idea is workable. A little skeptical about it working here. Maybe worth a try, dunno

Seems part of what makes a "good review" may be preference in clubbing style - the guy that goes to the club with the sole purpose of finding just one specific dancer to make a fave, will like a review that just talks about Bambi and nothing else - I don't think anyone is saying not to talk about how much you like Bambi, but that should not be the entire review of the CLUB - IMO it becomes problematic the more reviews of a club there are that just focus on one single aspect of the club instead of describing the multiple aspects of the club.

Again, many on here know certain clubs inside out and may have been reading reviews of certain clubs for years, thus you get the "it's been mentioned a 100 times" - but the reality is good chance that info is not known to many readers for one reason or another.

Paps, could be. I will note, though, that even I think a TR style review on just one girl, will often be borderline. I'd like to see descriptions of a few girls. But I think it's not just clubbing style, but how you pick a club in the first place. You guys will pass a review that contains not much more than prices and club layout, which makes me think that's how you choose clubs. Prices, as long as they don't pass some crazy threshold, are a side issue for me, compared to what the girls are like. And if I can walk into a new club already knowing the reputation of 15 of the girls, I should avoid these 7 and favor these 8, well, that is going to 1. be much more important than knowing the drinks are $8 (or, as the guys point out, prices sometimes change, so horror of horrors, the drinks are actually $10 now), 2. have a bigger impact on my club choice, than whether every single review repeats prices.

I just don't get how club prices are the overwhelming factor you read reviews for. But...

-->"Again, many on here know certain clubs inside out and may have been reading reviews of certain clubs for years, thus you get the "it's been mentioned a 100 times" - but the reality is good chance that info is not known to many readers for one reason or another."

Okay, but if the top review doesn't have prices, then if Dreamgirls is typical, the next review will. And the next. And the next. And the next. And the next. And the next. And the next. I didn't check further back than that, but I have a feeling I'd be typing "and the next" until my fingers bled. No one reads a single review to make their decision anyway, and as it is, you read just 2 or 3 reviews, you couldn't avoid seeing prices even if you wanted to. Granted, some clubs are slower as far as reviews

IMO, a review about a club should give adequate info for a reader to determine if it's a club he'd like to visit.

A review just focused on just one aspect of the club (Bambi, prices, w/e) does not serve the purpose/intent of the reviews system and why tge guidelines are specified.

^ "Not a bad idea flagooner (I'm surprised it came from you)"

Papi proving he's not a retard.

Review guidelines ( there fir a reason):

Content and length are the two most important factors to consider. Be wordy. Fill the review box. One or two sentence reviews aren't helpful to anyone. Give a LOT of details in your review (club layout, atmosphere, dance quality, etc.). Your review should be at least 4 solid paragraphs, with 4-7 sentences each. One paragraph should describe the club vibe. Mention cleanliness, thug factor, music level, dj annoyance factor, lighting, etc. Another paragraph should describe the dancers and their vampiness. How many were there? What ethicities did you see? Did they seem happy to see you? A third paragraph should be about value. Don't say drinks, dances, cover charge, etc. were cheap or expensive. Tell us the actual costs! At least one paragraph should summarize with three or four sentences describing why you would or would not return to the club. Be honest. You can go into detail of the private dances. Just be careful with names if it may get your ATF in trouble. Spelling, grammar, and punctuation count. Do not use ALL CAPITAL LETTERS! When composing a review, spell check it. Pro Tip 1: Think about what you would like to tell your good buddy about a strip club he's never been to. Pro Tip 2: Think about the business traveler that is sitting in his hotel room with only time enough to hit one club in this new town. Let him know why or why not he should visit a particular club. We have a zero tolerance policy for plagiarism. If we find out you submit a review as your own from another site, your account will be deleted.

TEXT OF REVIEW: Be wordy! Use Paragraphs! Try to convince other mongers why they should or should not visit.

Lastly, give your review a Title

IMO most reviews very light on details is bc of laziness and not caring about writing a proper review - and thus should not be given the consideration of being published if they didn't care enough to spend more than 5-minutes writing it - if you're not gonna put effort into writing the review then don't write it at all

Paps, thanks, I think I read the guidelines years ago and have forgotten them since. You're right, guidelines say tell actual cost. But that isn't the minimum -- it shoudl also include club vibe and dancer vampiness, and whether you should or shouldn't return to the club. Should we be failing reviews that don't mention those things? Maybe! I've seen plenty of passed reviews that are like 8 sentences total, most on costs and club layout, and very little otherwise. If a review is going to leave something out from founder's 4 criteria, I'd rather they leave out price and instead go into club vibe, vampiness, and especially dancer details.

Again, I realize I'm out of step with everyone, just enjoying the debate

===> "Allow all reviews to be posted (don't silence anyone). Reward valuable posts with VIP. If the review gets enough "thumbs up" votes (say 3) in 2 weeks the reviewer earns the VIP status."

It would complete our fucking trip to Trollville, which was already well underway once we handed club ratings back to the trolls and then further empowered them by letting them firebomb whatever threads they want. Now we also want to empower them to pack club reviews with crap and then upvote them with their other accounts?

Oh yeah, this is brilliant. You and your cheerleader Papi are genuine rocket scientists.

And @rickieboy proving he is retarded.

Not every review has to cover every single aspect, but IMO cover at least some or at least more than one.

Just talking about Bambi IMO does not help the majority of the review-reading population IMO - and the more of these lightweight reviews accepted/posted IMO the less useful the reviews become overall - again not saying leave Bambi out if the review, just give thr reader a bit more about the club other than just Bambi.

"... I realize I'm out of step with everyone ..."

No worries - it's not your fault - it's a byproduct of being surrounded by the San Francisco/Seattle/Left-Coast "progressive bubble" of "hey everyone should say whatever they want and it's all the same"

"Peace and love man - peace and love"

😄

I'm sorry you feel that way Papi. We are going to light a candle for you tonight at drum circle

:)

Papi, thanks for C&P'ing the guidelines. I see them as a good general template, but not one that must be rigidly adhered to. "Four solid paragraphs"? A lot of times 3 solid paragraphs will float my boat, but a single 4 line paragraph ain't gonna cut it. Layout ? Rather than give dimensions, how about some unique features like if a particular spot is too drafty or stuffy. Or under certain conditions a lousy view of the stage show ? Is ATM located away from high traffic path, or can everyone walking by see ATM code you entered. And so on.

For me, review should be dancer and cost centric. Not just regurgitate boilerplate club info, but things like do dancers give volume per dance cost discount for buying multiple dances. VIP costs, plus nagging add ons like being hit up for dancer drink. Or once there if dancer hits one up for additional tips to get more than airdance. Change over time for cover charge increase, cutoff time for free admission ? On drinks, is there big upcharge for called drinks ?

I'll cut slack if some checklist items are missing, but the other areas better be strong.

@rick dugan- Who were you replying to wrt troll empowerment.?Did you ever consider adding "cotton candy review" to Tuscl glossary ?

-->"For me, review should be dancer and cost centric. Not just regurgitate boilerplate club info, but things like do dancers give..."

Ya... and I think it's the dancer-centric part that's often missing. Any popular club has a zillion reviews that mention cost, so if a review is going to be missing something, I'd rather it miss cost than dancer information. I also prefer information about specific dancers, in a way that does not get her in trouble with law enforcement, management, and especially her co-workers. Shouldn't be hard -- what's she look like, what makes her awesome (minus details).

Part of my view here is probably from the previous forum I was on for over a decade, which was heavy on dancer info, with cost info being optional. Again, maybe guys on tuscl don't realize how awesome it is to go to a new club already armed with a list of 20 girls and at least a general idea of which are pleasing PLs and which are hustlers/ROBs/tip-requestors/song cutters, because no such thing can be put together from tuscl reviews. But I think if we got there, you'd see that maybe you don't need 25 reviews in a row mentioning the drinks are $8 after all, compared to knowing that April and Ruby are exactly your type and awesome enough to be several guys' CFs

I think anyone would agree the dancerS are the the most-important detail in a review; that's the reason most people go to the club - for me I like to know costs especially w.rt. a club unfamiliar to me but yeah it's about the dancers.

I don't look for a missing detail to reject a review - I look for a reason(s) to approve it in-spite of it missing some info I'd like to see - thus for me it's not about missing detail 'X'; it's usually that's it's missing a lot of details where I can't determine what the club is about and if it's a club I might be interested in visiting.

^ I’m sort of feeling the same way, I look for reasons to approve, it’s not about minutiae but I want something of value for my consideration.

—>@subraman: a review which focuses on the girls (without compromising them!) is more useful than the 10th review in a row which mentions drinks cost $8 and the stage is round and on the left. “

Nailed it. Yes, I would prefer that reviews check all the boxes. And it’s too bad many reviewers are too lazy to do that. Me personally, I approve if they provide acceptable intel without checking all boxes. But the intel most appreciated is the girls, what mileage is available in the club, and the dance/room pricing

If a reviewer just talks about his fave and no other dancers, then I personally don't consider that a review of interest - it's his fave not mine - no problem mentioning it; but tell me about the rest of the girls to see if i may be interested in visiting the club - and yeah; him describing his fave I suppose is of some interest; but I don't wanna have to get past multiple "my fave is awesome" reviews to read a more complete review

I'm guessing this is why it requires multiple feedback, to account for different opinions regardless of how wrong y'all are.

Per a recent thread:

"... Also learned a bit on how this dancer can make extra money off out of towners when doing lap dances. Let's say a guy does 4 dances. At Follies prices that is $40. This dancer was clear that if asked how much it is per dance or how much she is owed she answers based on $10. But, she will only say it was 4 dances when they are done. Local guys know the drill, but if an out of town guy hands her $80 or $100, she just thanks him ..."

tuscl.net

IMO why stating prices is important - I'm sure stating prices won't eliminate this issue completely but does help - guys getting overcharged b/c they don't know or are mislead by a dancer is not the norm but def not uncommon

As sc says, READ THE REVIEW GUIDELINES!

new reviews should contain information indicative of the time the reviewer visited the club.

were there more girls working? were they pretty? has the club changed in its makeup since the last review?

was the dayshift better that day?