Dealing With Dancers That Overcount

One of my old favorite clubs used to have a bouncer watch over things and make sure they didn't overcount but that process was highly dependent on which bouncer was watching over the lap dance area. If the owner's cousin was the bouncer, you were SOL, because he would just go along with the dancers, and I assume they would pay him off, at least until he got fired.

I would just pay the fee but never give her business again...I would also do a review of the club and use her name and call her a ROb so other patrons can take heed the warning and avoid her thus damaging her cash flow

In my club the dancer tells the bouncer how many before we even start; if anything they do more songs, not less.

Yep. I'd never ever get dances from her again.

I still remember one time, I got to the club around 3pm. Left about 5-5:30pm So I was at the club approx, 2 to 2.5 hours.
I had a couple beers. Was sitting at the bar when a dancer I hadn't seen in a couple years shows up. She sits down and we get caught up on life, what's happened in both of our lives over past couple years.(I had helped her get the transmission on her vehicle fixed, and had hung out with her OTC). She went on stage 3 times in the period we were talking. There was a rotation of 15 girls approx. Each time after coming back from the stage we'd talk some more, I'd buy her a drink and I'd have another beer. Each time she came back, she pushed for dances/VIP.
Each time she pushed for VIP, I told I would but I wanted to wait a bit and said if she had any other prospects to leave and I wouldn't be upset. I get that she's there to make money and we were just catching up. She's fine sitting with me at the bar.
Finally, it gets to be about 4:30 or so, I agree to go VIP. (Didn't negotiate a price, because I knew her and had paid $1,500 to get her transmission fixed a couple years ago. She'd always been fair as to the price in the past).

Big mistake.

We go to VIP. She does one dance and then it's on to Detroit style extras. I estimate we were in VIP for 5 songs, @ 3 minutes each, we were there 15 minutes top ($125 for just dances). We finish up, she says "what are you thinking in price?" Just by the going rate for our activity, and past amounts I've paid her, I offer $200 (I figured that's a good tip in addition to the $25 a song).

She counters with: "we've been back here an awfully long time. $700"

I was speechless. I couldn't believe that a girl I'd known and had helped in the past was going to try and rip me off!!! Remember, I'd only been in the club for 2 hours and the majority of that two hours we spent talking and drinking at the bar.

I said no way. She said "you're mad at me aren't you?" Just to not cause a scene or an arguement, I gave her $300 and left without saying a word to her.

If I ever see her again, she will never ever, get another VIP session from me.

The short answer like some have said: suck it up and pay, but don't buy dances from her again, ever.
or
you can tell a dancer upfront, next time, how many dances you plan to buy. So this way there won't be any confusion.
I was in a similar situation like you, but it was my fault, not hers though because I was new to the SC scene and didn't know etiquette/rules of the club and didn't know the club counted dances in the backroom.

Now when I get dances I tell them 'x amount' and this way your good.

I don't deal with them, ever! I know you've stated after the fact the dance count but somehow I've only encountered this once or twice, and since I usually tip for good performance (it's the only reason why I'm buying multiple dances), I would just pay them without tipping and it evens out.

My favorite club has timed dances. Lights go on and off to mark the beginning and end of dances. the dance swipes in and out. No song count. This is part of the reason it is my favorite club. I wonder why every club doesn't go to this model. I don't think they make so much money on miscounts that it is worth pissing off customers.

It happens. I don't have any "rules" on how to respond to the overcounting stripper. Sometimes, it really is just her honest mistake (as if she is telling me, "dancing for you was such an onerous task that it really seemed like that many more dances") and sometimes it is a stripper expecting to get away with ripping me off. If the dances were really good - and the difference in count not that big - then I would likely pay up without comment AND without tip!

I have objected - and even encountered strippers who thought calling the bouncer over would intimidate me. In my experience it has never escalated past a bouncer or "manager" and I talking about the dispute. Only once did I pay what the stripper insisted upon - two $20 dances instead of the one bad airdance I really received - and that was because the "manager" comped my drinks for the evening AND "allowed" the dancer to get dressed and go home - immediately (by cab, she really was stoned). Usually, when I respond with a lower count, the stripper is willing to listen and either accept my number or negotiate (if extra fun was involved).

I have also encountered strippers who undercounted. Sometimes because they were drunk or stoned, sometimes because they can't count! Again, I have no fixed response. But I seldom correct them. If the dancer tried hard, was fun to be around and deserved the full count, I would just give her the amount she would have received from me if she counted correctly. That has the added benefit of surprising her with a bigger tip than she expected - usually granting me additional benefits that night or on a future visit. And sometimes I just pay what she asked for!

Some times I get so caught up in how good the dances are that I don't even know the count. Either way, at $10/dance I just pay it.

Case by case basis.

In the instances where I've felt the need to put up a fight, I'll say "Let's go talk about this with your manager." Often, if *I'm* the one willing to escalate to management, the dancer will back down.

And then I never buy dances from her again.

Thankfully it's only happened to me a few times, and it was only one song she overcounted by, so I just paid it and didn't do dances with her again. Now say she said we did 8 songs, but we really did 5 songs, now then I will stand my ground and not pay for 8 songs. She can call over the manager if she wants, I don't give a fuck.

@warhawks- LOL, 700 bucks for 15 min, dumb bitch. You did the right thing, I'm glad you didn't try to meet her in the middle with like 500 or something. I would have just gave her 200 and walk out of the club.

I've had my fair share of battles in the black clubs w/ this, the first time or 2 I paid (it wasn't a big amount) but was so pissed about it that every time it happened after that I didn't.

b/c it happened to me several times is why I know almost always tell a dancer to tell me every time she's starting a new song - I do this so we're both on the same page on the song count and b/c in the black clubs it's not uncommon for the damn DJ to play the songs all over the place in length and even cut them at 30 seconds and it's often hard to tell when one song ends and another one begins thus I myself can easily get confused.

I don't overpay b/c that affects me more/my-mood than just standing my ground and not overpaying b/c I feel I've ben had and taken advantage of.

This thing of "I paid up but will never spend another dime on her" is not a win nor a solution b/c you still got ripped off and she still got what she wanted/your-$$$ and chances are you won't see her again anyway in many cases so she's not really losing out - so like Sinclair said paying-up just encourages them to do it to other PLs b/c many PLs will use the same lame reasoning of "she'll never see another dime from me again" and they just keep doing it as long as PLs keep using that reasoning.

I've also found that many ROBs won't get the manager when they are trying to rip you off even if they threaten to do so since they may already have a reputation for doing this that management is aware off - in the rare occasion she's gotten the manager I have not paid up and not made to I assume in part b/c I had been getting dances all night long with different dancers meaning it was obvious I was a spending custy, but even if they would ask me to leave a club I would rather leave than overpay her.

And a custy relying on a bouncer to be fair is a crapshoot at best since in most clubs the dancers have to tp the bouncers so that's a conflict of interest and one not in your favor - I just pay her the correct amount and if she wants to get the staff involved I take it from there but the custy getting the staff involved is a crapshoot - at best it's def better dealing with the manager than a bouncer that gets tipped by the dancers and this may be good b/c it puts the ROB on the manager's radar but sometimes the managers are douches themselves.

A couple of times I've told the girls that I will either pay what they ask and never get a dance from them again, or I will pay for the actual number of songs and we can keep seeing each other. Both times the girl said pay her what she claimed so I did and never spent another penny on them.

gunrack, the flaw in your strategy is that she can still overcount when you ask for a specified number of dances in advance. Lets say you ask for five, then after the fourth song, she gets up and argues that she did five.

Papi_Chulo, great advice as usual. You are 100% correct.

JohnSmith69, that is a good way of dealing with it. I can imagine after they steal an extra $20 or $40 and come to the realization that you will never spend money on them again, they might get bitter and try to get back at you by telling the locker room you are cheap or some other lie.

It amazes me how many dancers are shortsighted, making a quick grab for an extra $20 or $40 in the present, but in the long run be losing out on hundreds or thousands of dollars because they were dishonest to a guy that was really into them.

Obviously you need to put ROB's on blast in your reviews, but this alone does not really affect a ROB's income since maybe only 0-2% of people going through a given club's doors are read the reviews on TUSCL.

I don't really run into this often because I generally only get 1-2 dances, or 1-2 uptime specials, from a girl at a time. If she's good enough to warrant more than that I usually go for a timed vip session.

The one time I had a dancer try to over count our dances I suggested we have the manager review the video to count them for us knowing that she had violated numerous club rules during our time together. She quickly dropped the matter and went with my count.

whodey: That's perfect!! Any dispute, review the video. The dancer will surely immediately negotiate in your favor. Although I assume there are still clubs with no cameras...?

I have run into many situations over the years but as I usually only do dances with girls I'm hanging out with and drinking with regularly I don't remember this ever happening to me.

Once at everyone's favorite club I got two lousy dances from a girl and she asked for $40. We argued for about 2 minutes, I told her she could go get a manager. She let it go. I paid the $20 and left her standing there.

(She actually asked me for dances later. My cousin - who doesn't even live in Atlanta - texted me a few minutes earlier saying he was in the club and I was about to look for him. I told her that and she didn't believe me.)

Once at Playhouse a girl tried to say we got 8 songs and we only got 4. I got up with her still on my lap and we walked over to the DJ booth. DJ said '4'. I gave her the money and looked for a different girl.

Short version: when I really take it there, I win most of the time. Most guys will. Just have to match their will.

Once at a hood spot in Miami a girl asked me to get her a drink and then said we did 3 songs when we did two. She said one song played twice in a row. I was incensed. We argued for so long I thought staff was going to come over. I eventually gave her $30 and walked out. Outside of a quick in-and-out (five minutes, didn't spend a dime), haven't been back since.

If a girl really gets under my skin about a song count, her getting anymore cash from me isn't even an option. I've never even gone back to a club (at least not yet) where I've gotten into it with a ROB and "lost". Even when I "win", I make mental notes.

It has only happened to me a few times. In those rare instances I respond similar to what Juice stated above.

If I know she overcounted, I will politely tell her the correct number.
If she apologizes, all is good. Everyone makes mistakes.
If not, I just tell her "Okay. I'll pay for the extra dance (or two), but you will never get another dollar from me." This usually pisses them off, but oh well.

At $10/dance it isn't worth creating a scene to me. Strippers can be very short sighted, sacrificing long term gain for such minor immediate gratification.

I'm just realizing that it's been many, many years since this has happened to me! I think that's mostly an artifact of how I SC:
- I specifically pick low-hustle shifts and clubs
- I am mostly a known regular at my fave clubs, only sometimes branch out to new clubs
- I don't see much sense in doing lapdances, especially when I can often get the same contact (or more, depending on the club) right there at the table, for the price of drinks. So I only do VIPs, which are much harder to miscount.

Back years ago on the occasions when this did happen, I tended to do what most people above do: avoid the scene, pay her, never see her again and write a bad review on the local forum. These days, at the clubs I go to the most often, I'm enough of a known quantity that it's far more likely management would take my side (management at the higher end clubs often take their regulars' side over the girls', IME, I've seen this happen countless times), and I'm unlikely to let it slide.

Sinclair: true she can still rip me off by undercounting. But it's also my job to keep count. So I would verbally tell her this is dance 3, etc. I shouldn't be that wasted where I can't keep count or be taken advantage of if your an experienced SC patron. I only but a lot of dances from my ATF or girls I know who are good.

I don't remember the last time I ran into this issue. Louisville is prepay for lap dances everywhere that I can think of.

Not sure whether I'd tell her to fuck off, or just bitch at the manager.

Letting girls sell you dances is a chump's game.

Instead, get her completely off script and feed her money and get friendly with her in the front room. Get a makeout session going. Then when it is time for your own pants to come down, you invite her to the back room. Or just take her home with you.

There is no charge for this advice.

SJG

Look what I found. I believe this was for the Muhammad Ali and George Foreman fight. I have seen segments of this where the girl does some titty flashing, but I don't know if that is in this youtube.

James Brown "Soul Power" live in Kinshasa Zaire, 1974.9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N-NrucQ…

Includes brief footage of Celia Cruz.

More Celia Cruz, Zaire, 1974
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9iIBCO3…

Guantanamera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOfST5xO…

SJG lolol

GoVikings, which do you like better, having a beautiful dolled up hottie open up to you in a civilian manner? Or just getting your wallet sucked dry with some dissociated mechanical ejaculation services?

You have read posts yourself from expert tuscl members who never accept anything less than the former. And in our own underground places, if you want a girl for OTC, you make sure she is good with you. And most of them are!

Dougster:
http://indianapublicmedia.org/amomentofs…

SJG

Guantanamera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOfST5xO…

Oye Como Va
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9HwpFdC…

Bemba Colora
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvuU8ARJ…

Lmfao!!

Here's how I get dances and usually don't have an issue.

Get one dance, at the end if she's asks "keep going?" I'll say "dance until $100 is up" and depending on the place that's usually 4 or 5 songs total. At the end of that I'll say "that was enough, I'm good for now" or "do two more songs" or "do another 4 more" and usually there is not an issue.

If Im going song by song I'll mention what dance it is at the beginning of each song "this is dance number 3 right?" And she'll say "yes" then say "this is dance number 4 right?" Which seems to work well but I always make sure she aknoledges what song we are on.

There have been more times in my life where I think the dancer gave me more dances than the actual songs played verses ripping me off, those situations I don't complain about! Really though, most wise dancers realize giving one extra song free will not kill them, after all they just made $120 in 12 minutes, 1 extra song equaled 15 minutes.

If it's within 2 songs And I'm honestly not sure I let t go, if there's an issue I usually compromise and offer somewhere in the middle and tell her if she can't agree with that we can talk to management.

Side note - see how JS69s offers a solution and they girls always cut their own throats, and I rarely have issues with song counts? That's the difference in age, he's getting dances from 20 year olds and I'm getting dances from 30+ year olds. It's not the guy (him or me, or you for that matter) that is more likely to get ripped off, it's the dancer and her mindset.

If your so broke that your counting dances you shouldn't be clubbing lol

^ you're right. I shouldn't be. But oh well.

"If your so broke that your counting dances you shouldn't be clubbing lol"

I know you don't count, is that like when you think you've had 4 Arby Sliders but really you've had 17?

LMFAO

"Just about how many hot dogs do you eat a day...?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmLpSY5w…

If it has happened multiple times with the same dancer I'll avoid her forever.

If it happens in VIP and if her and I can't settle then it's to the bouncer. If it's the floor and it's off by one I'll pay her, but as mentioned if it happens again I avoid her.

I blow money like I blow my nose reckless LMFAO

It's a big fat "It depends." On my mood, on how good the dances were, on if I think she's trying to rip me off or is just off herself, on the club/girl history, and any other number of factors. I don't have a set rule, I approach each instance individually.

If I feel like I'm being robbed, I generally stand my ground and don't pay a dime over what I think I owe. There probably is some exceptions, but I can't remember the situation right now. I've had disputes get escalated to bouncers and floor managers. Once, at Teasers in Key West, they threatened to call the cops. In that case I called their bluff, that was a matter of 2 ($50) actual dances vs the 8 ($200) claimed and I knew with certainty they had cameras outside the dance area that would back me up. They never called the cops. In other situations, it never has gone beyond the floor manager and it rarely gets beyond a bouncer, and like I said, I don't think I've ever paid. In a fair amount of cases where it gets escalated the bouncer/manager have been on my side and thanked me for not being a pussy and paying her and then crying to a manager after she has the money.

If the dances were good and I believe either I may be wrong or that she really thinks she's right I'll either pay it without a tip and without a comment, or ask. When I ask, a lot of girls will go ask someone. At places like Scarlett's they ask the eye in the sky. At Tootsies and some of the Cheetahs, there is a guy out front who collects $5 from the girls that they ask. If the 3rd party, who obviously isn't impartial, agrees with her number, I'll pay it, usually without a tip. Sometimes they'll just accept my number, then I'm always stuck and have occasionally tipped. This is never a dispute of more than one song, so sometimes the tip is the price of that song or we'll split the difference.

I think I've only gone back to a girl I've had a dispute with over the song count once, usually I'll stay away even if I think it was an honest mistake. I've never written a club off for it, but I will visit less if a club has lots of the kinds of girls who tend to do that shit.

I would get the manager involved, using the likelihood that she pulls this shit all the time and mgmt will usually try to correct it. However, if mgmt sides with her for any reason, then you've no choice to pay it and put that club on your blacklist.

But so much better just to be making out with her in the front room. Not for free, with feeding her money. But that way it is all more flexible, just between you and the girl.

I learned this with an extremely cute black girl at SF New Century long ago. She finished her set stripped down to only high heels and makeup, and theatrically open tongue kissing with another girl.

Save the booths and back rooms until you invite her their because it is time for you own pants to come down.

Then take your girl home with you too.

:)

SJG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XARgc5Um…

SJG

Celia Cruz & The Fania All Stars - Quimbara - Zaire, Africa 1974
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXN-_asI…

I've decided that if this ever happened to me, I'm going to stab her. And any bouncer or manager who supports her against me.

Its why I have always paid for everything upfront, avoid conflicts and danger in places which are already kind of dicey.

SJG

Celia Cruz - Bemba Colora
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXfRgOwq…

@ gmd:

Way to take one for the team!

If you gotta ask how much your to broke to ride the ride

if she insist, that will be her tip and no more business from me.