What's your ideal number of lovers?

I know three is the perfect number for me. But Im not so good at multi-tasking.

But I always now try to keep at least three on my constant contact list. Good mix of Variety and familiarity

One would be a good starting place for me.

Now I just have to figure out where that starting place is.

As many as mrs sea wants. If she's happy I'm happy.

I think I can do all right with 2. Hell, when the two try to be each others lover in addition to mine, that's more fun than I ever thought possible. 3 gets to be a challenge, however.

2 counting the one I'm married to, with an occasional 3rd which is a one night stand here and there. Juggling two women is the most I can do. I simply don't have the time to carry on conversations and interactions with more than 2 women at a time.

One time I had 2 "girlfriends" one a married women and the other a stripper and too much drama! Listening to 3 women's problems on a daily basis drove me nuts.

I don't think I could beat King Solomon:

He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray.--1 Kings 11:3.

The one I live with is too much, and you're asking how many more? Fuck that. If I was single I could think about this if I had more time on my hands.

TUSCL allows me to tell someone to go fuck of where in my regular life I can't

Two women at once is the most that I could handle.

Just one, unless she has a friend I like too.

Right now I have four primary friends, three of which I see multiple times per month. But if I were only seeing each of them once a month, then I could probably handle four to six additional ones. The idea is very enticing but I can't possibly cut my time with DS I and II.

I'm having trouble just holding on to one. It seems to me that the more you have, then the more periods you have to keep track of.

I only sleep with one guy at a time, whether we're together or just friends w/benefits... I don't have casual sex much. The total number of guys I slept with is still in the single digits. In fact, in the last 5 yrs I've only slept with two guys! I'm very picky, but once I find a guy worthy of my vagina, I like to have sex multiple times a day.

^^^ how many guys have you blown? It's a serious question, I've met girls like that before... They say "I've only had sex with 5 men, but I've blown 82."

I'll go with seven. One for every day of the week :)

The number of guys I've blown is one less than the number of guys I've had sex with.

Honestly, it depends on the maintenance requirements of the individual women. And I'm not talking finances here (though that's a factor, of course). Some women require more work than others to keep them engaged.

If they're laid back and low maintenance, then 4 to 6 is workable. If there's a couple in the mix that are labor intensive (but worth it), then 2 to 3.

I'd go with 4 to 6. I've never had it this way, but I am going to.

I think you have to do them a couple of times per month each, and then you should plan on giving each of them about 50% of each lunar cycle as time off. And then you also still need time to be trying out new ones.

Again though, this is from having thought about it, not from having lived it, yet.

Good Thread!

SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiFaP8x4…
Buddy Guy - Man and the blues

"It seems to me that the more you have, then the more periods you have to keep track of."

I do informally keep track of their periods. I could tell you when 3 out of 4 will start their period next and be accurate to within a couple of days.

" the more periods you have to keep track of"

You got that right.

Often women have a hard time reading maps. But they have no trouble with the calendar. You deal with women, you learn to use the calendar the same way.

I keep track, and there is nothing informal about it.

JS69 +3

SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…

Humble Pie - For Your Love
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0gkMzie…

two. And that's barely managable when women all like different things. Anything larger than a threesome is just excessive.

If you are Muslim it'd probably be 72

I keep track of periods because I keep track of ovulation.

Ovulation is a wonderful time of the month where maybes turn to yes.

I track their lunar cycles because I have found that the best time is from just as Aunt Flo is leaving, till a little bit beyond ovulation. I call this "the upslope", because her hormone level is rising each day.

So you don't need to wait until ovulation to get good results with her, in my experience. Actually once the worst of their period is over, they get into a good mood.

So if you really want to get to her, just start banging her daily on her upslope. She will completely lose rationality.

Now beyond the peak, ovulation, it is another matter. Eventually she will get cranky and start to retain water. At that point FS does become difficult for them and they only want to do it once and they no longer like FIV.

So I feel that the best thing to do then is simply not to be around them. Plan on giving them 50% of each lunar cycle off.

Great Topic!

SJG

Hypothetically, the more the better, as long as they are all interesting and beautiful in their own unique way. But it's purely hypothetical. No matter how rich or hot a man is, it's a rare woman who's going to as good a lover as she can be with a guy she only sees very occasionally. The (literal) harem thing is a bad idea. It's hard enough for a woman to be happy when she's got only one source of dick, even when she's got exclusive rights to it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!!!

Most insightful!

SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/

John Mayall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKcmDCPC…

ilbbaicnl,

So are you saying that under monogamy, even women don't do so well and that, say if one of us were married to a woman, that it would eventually turn to shit?

That would explain much.

SJG

ilbbaicnl wrote,

"it's a rare woman who's going to as good a lover as she can be with a guy she only sees very occasionally. "

and

"It's hard enough for a woman to be happy when she's got only one source of dick, even when she's got exclusive rights to it."

If true, these would explain everything!

So the corollary to this is then, "NEVER give a woman the marriage and monogamy she insists that she wants, or you'll be destroying both she and yourself!"

SJG

He is saying that once you restrict a woman to monogamy, or once you give her what she insists that she wants, then you have screwed yourself but good!

SJG

But you don't seem to understand, it really hurts a man when the relationship and sex turn to shit!

Most of us here have been through that, and we have tried and tried to cope with it.

So if one of use were to go the way you're describing, say with you, we'd be destroying both you and ourselves.

SJG

^^^Nope, assuming you throw in an occasional threesome (MFF)

But that's all unicorns and Santa as far as I know

And if my wife steps out she sure as hell better save a video I could jack off to later...

Yes I went there

this question should be asked to a Mormon!

"If a woman has been very sexual for the majority of her life and is pretty open minded and there is love between her and her man not to mention she enjoys dressing up for him and making things interesting in the bedroom...would he still need to see strippers and get extras?"

No, he might not still need to see strippers. But, my own view is that what you are describing just doesn't happen.

Girl Friends and Mistresses and Escorts are great lovers, just so long as you don't see them too often. And this seems to be ilbbaicnl's most insightful point.

But once a woman is married to a guy, it quickly turns to shit.

I mean women talk and talk about marriage all day long, even though with most of the married people they know, their marriages are shit.

SJG

Real dating just one

P4P one main ho then the random hunts

Pimpin is one main bitch and as many whores that feel like paying me for me being me

Speaking here only for myself, and still replying to ilbbaicnl's above post,

I found that the cohabitation aspects of marriage destroyed the sex. It turned it all into a negative experience.

Though it was the wife who turned against it before I did.

Why is this so? Hard to explain it, but today I am seeing it like I never have before.

I am always telling my ex, "You are not bad, and I am not bad, but our society and marriage itself are bad."

SJG

Well, actually it is very difficult. The only safe medium has been email, and keeping it terse and sparse.

But my point is that the marriage turned to shit, even though I tried, and even though I know that in her own way she tried too.

I wish ilbbaicnl would jump in and further explain his insights.

But my view, and I believe consistent with ilbbaincni, is that women say they want marriage and will talk about it day and night. But, if they get it, they turn it to shit. Maybe that is being unfair. Maybe I should just say, it turns to shit.

Really the issue is simply that marriage is bad for women. And then hence it is also bad for men.

SJG

Muddy Waters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40-oo1S2…

Here was my question to the female posters:

https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…

"And then I also want to ask them what they think of chessmaster's post, "Everyone's validation for justifying going to strip clubs and paying hos for sex (what you consider cheating)seems to be the wife loses interest in sex and that reason alone is good enough."

So many of our regular posters have a complaint like this against their wife. And for me, it was also like this. The amount of sex she wanted was marginal. Even our marriage councilor said that typically women only want sex about once per month, and that to keep a husband happy they have to learn to do it more like about twice per week.

Any comments on this, as this is what seems to drive so many to sex with the dancers in strip clubs?
"

So I think ibbanicnl has given us part of the answer, marriage is bad for women and it destroys the sex.

So Coldnshallow, what would you say to a man who has had his marriage turn to shit?

SJG

"it's best before cheating that you tell them you need to split because your needs aren't being met."

I generally agree with this, and in my posts I've expressed this view. But there are still going to be exceptions. Ending a marriage is an extremely hard thing to do, and sometimes a guy has just got to engage with some dolled up hotties just in order to stay sane.

But in general I would agree that a life based on cheating is not good. In my own infidelities I did keep it within some bounds.

" If you've tried everything and it just isn't working than it's best to go your separate ways."

Yes of course. But just saying this does not address the amount of harm which has been done.

"I would think it would be much safer to date other woman though. Why not try dating?"

There are people on this board who are dating civilians. But I think an issue is this, do you think a failed marriage is an aberration, or is it just the logical response to the dynamics of marriage? I mean if one is dating civilians, where is it going to end? Wound any sane person want to go through the same nightmare again?

"That way you wouldn't have to pay for sex and it could be a very interesting experience."

I feel that once a man has followed a marriage through from beginning to end, he comes to understand women better. He understands what they say, and he understands much of what they don't say.

Paying for sex is not that big of a deal.

And I go with one of our most expert members, Jestrite50, who is adamant that he does not pay for sex. Rather he does like they do in Europe, he looks after his women. He gives them money, but it is not specifically for sex. It works out.

For myself I have a much bigger operation taking shape, but it does not involve paying for sex, and it is not monogamy either.

I mean after my marriage ended I looked at the available women. I could see that they were simply what my wife had used to be. I recognized right away that I did not have the right to destroy a second woman in the same way that I had destroyed my wife by giving her what she wanted and marrying her and trying to be a good husband to her.

MARRIAGE SUCKS!

SJG

Muddy Waters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40-oo1S2…

???

I don't want to destroy another young woman. It would not be right for me to do that to her. It would be completely irresponsible!

And I don't want to destroy what is left of my own life either.

So going out with a girl and fucking her is no big deal.

But giving her what she is always going to want, is irresponsible, unethical, and completely destructive.

I am actively involved in building a different kind of life. It is not centered on paying money for sex, and it is not monogamy either.

Can you Coldnshallow explain why so many marriages fail?

The late sex educator Stan Dale used to always say, "The best marriages end in divorce."

I take this to mean what I see all around me, that the marriages that continue are horrid. It is just that both parties have become so numb that they don't even feel anything any more.

SJG

Some hot MILF's!
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…

"Not all women are frigid around that age. "

Usually they only go frigid after they've been married a while. This is my observation.

Coldnshallow, tell the truth, what would be more fun, being married, or being a stripper who also rakes in $ by doing a succession of guys just like you are meeting here on TUSCL, out in a motor home in the parking lot?

2000
http://www.amazon.com/My-First-2-000-Men…

SJG

Front Wheel Drive, light weight, diesel
http://www.roadtrek.com/models/zion-srt/

In my entire life I have seen very few marriages which I would describe as love and happiness.

Of course most of the members here on TUSCL are coming out of nightmare marriages. But I am not saying that other POV's are not welcome. Yes of course they are.

What is the cost of this stability, and especially for one not obsessed with money?

I have seen zero marriages in my life time where the sex does not seem to die, and long before either of the parties are too old.

Father figure for the son to look up to? There must be some other way to meet this need which is lower risk and lower collateral consequences.

As I have seen, the people who live with the greatest degree of security are those who live in monasteries. They live like kings and queens.

To find love and happiness in marriage, I feel that both parties have to believe in things, things which I do not believe in. I know that there are better ways of finding love and happiness, and a good environment for children too.

Also, what I have seen is that in these property and marriage based societies we have, they all depend on dividing women into to categories. If you did not have this second category of women, it would all collapse, because marriage is just so horrid.

There has got to be a better way.

Coldnshallow, do you sincerely believe that marriage is good for women? Is it good for men?

SJG

Yes, I've read all of your posts on this thread.

Love each other still?

I still love my ex-wife. But that doesn't mean that we could be married. If we still were, we'd probably both be dead by now.

Almost never have I seen a married couple I would like to emulate. Yes, I can say absolutely never.

In getting married myself, it was an act of faith, or maybe more like testing God by throwing myself off a high building. Anyway, I thought my marriage could be different from all of those that I'd ever seen.

I know lots of people remain married, but I don't want to live the way that they do. I think it is destructive to both women and men.

There have got to be other solutions, and I am actively involved in trying to make one work.

SJG

Yab Yum, the cosmic couple united as all eternity comes into the present:
http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff347…

" In your situation, it sounds like you have it your all. It also sounds like you know what you want and that is to have sexual encounters with women that do that for a living because you feel it's easier and there's less risk of building a close personal connection. "

You are completely wrong about me. Although I know that reading lots and lots of my posts is impractical, suffice to say that my posting history refutes what you are saying.

"Correct me if I'm wrong but you feel you hurt the relationship and your wife somehow and you are afraid that somehow you might do that again if you tried getting involved with someone. Am I wrong in saying that? "

This is not true either. I conducted myself responsibly during my marriage. My wife also conducted her self responsibly. Though neither of us were perfect.

But what I am always telling her is, "You are not bad, and I am not bad, but our society and the institution of marriage are bad."

Marriage destroys both Women and Men.

SJG


Recommended Reading:

http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Social-Family…

http://www.amazon.com/Critical-theory-fa…

http://www.amazon.com/Death-Family-David…

and the greatest of them all:

http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Oedipus-Capit…

Nietzsche
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_man

I'm not claiming to know all the answers, but as I have affiliated with some church people recently, all long term married, the following comes to mind.

Robin Baker
http://www.amazon.com/Sperm-Wars-Infidel…

Speaking I think of birds, he talks about two evolutionarily inherited reproductive strategies:

1. Mate Guarding, trying to surveil the mate continually, so as not to be cuckolded.

2. Big Balls, just having so much ejaculate and so many killer sperm, that it doesn't matter what she does, as your sperm will always prevail.

These church people are following strategy 1. The married couples so resemble each other and so fit each other.

And then I also think how much this resembles Nietzsche's concept of the Last Man, essentially neuroticism.

SJG

Muddy Waters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40-oo1S2…

Marriage does not ruin most women. I'm sure a lot of women stop having sex with their husbands after a few years. But here are some of the reasons I think why-guys start taking them for granted, busy lives and not taking the time for each other so the romance goes away. Woman need to feel wanted/appreciated and the majority of guys think once you're married they no longer have to continue the pursuit of her. You do!! If you have the desire to chase another woman then why the hell aren't you doing that in your marriage.
Now some marriages can't be saved but most do not try. When we said "I do" then that meant forever. Most people give up too easily. Is everyday rainbows and kisses. Hell no, I could smother hubby with a pillow right now because he's snoring on the couch. But the good far outweighs the bad. And my friends all feel the same. True love exists but it's damn hard work.

If I had been more sexualized, I would not have married the woman that I did. I don't blame her, its just the way it is. I still want to somehow make it up to her for all the pains we suffered, even while trying to do our very best.

I like strippers and AMP girls and street hookers, but not just because they are on the menu. I like them because they are interesting people, and they are all potential comrades in building a different kind of a world. Things happen when you can draw in people from the margins of society. I want to do this, instead of myself trying to become normative.

Anyway, I need to sleep now and I probably won't be back until Saturday or Sunday. But please, others jump in and lets see where this can go.

Happy Thanksgiving!
SJG

ColdnShallow quoted me, " "I don't want to destroy another young woman. It would not be right for me to do that to her. It would be completely irresponsible!" "

What I mean is that marriage is bad. Most people don't know this, but I do. So I am obliged to act responsibly with this knowledge. It is not something specific to me, that is just people trying to enforce social conformity who would say that.

SJG

MrsSeaboard wrote,

"...I'm sure a lot of women stop having sex with their husbands after a few years. But here are some of the reasons I think why-guys start taking them for granted, busy lives and not taking the time for each other so the romance goes away. "

No, I believe that there are genuine social pressures which act on married couples, forcing them to conform. And it is these, not individual short comings, which make the marriage near suicidal.

and

"Most people give up too easily."

I certainly did not give up too easily and I believe that most of those on this forum did not give up too easily. I suffered for long long years trying to reconnect with my spouse.

Interesting, an old girlfriend of mine I have since learned is now a wedding coordinator for a large hotel. Can you imagine.

I think the people who promote marriage should be lined up against a wall and shot.

Anyway, if most people could read what you have posted MrsSeaboard, they would never get married. The risks are very high, and even if it works, the benefits are not that great, and besides, it makes you into something wretched. This is how I have come to see it. And I do see it as more destructive to women than to men.

Be back in a few days.

Happy Thanksgiving!
SJG

High school, I was seeing two, no sex during that time.

College days, I was seeing at most 5 girls, dating them and spending time .

After college, working at different companies. Dating dropped to zero. Career came first.

Noeadays, after five years of strip clubbing. The bitches I see are like maybe around two or three.

When I was building up and getting on with my professional life. I was also banging girls left and right, but those were just one offs. I did not entertain any serious girl in my life.

for fuck sakes. TUSCL is hitting a new low with psycho san_jose_guy carrying on a ridiculous monologue with himself in the guise of his psycho female self coldnshallow.

take your FUCKING MEDS you idiot

Coldnshallow and SJG I enjoyed your exchange of ideas very much ! I suspect that your nickname Coldnshallow is actually a misnomer because from what I have read here you are neither Cold or Shallow. You sound like a very Hot Intelligent young lady. My favorite type ! Thanks for adding your insight !

@jestrite "You sound like a very Hot Intelligent young lady. My favorite type ! "


don't forget about his, uhhh i mean "her" gravy breath

Now back to the question .....i juggle 3 who all live in different cities all know about each other all ask me about each other but have never met and only communicate through me. I like it that way and they like it that way because when I'm in town they have my complete attention and I have their complete attention. I love all of them very much and will do anything I can for them. I just want them to advance in life and be successful at whatever they want in life. May sound crazy but it works for us ! Polyamory !

Polyamory, yes!

I am of the belief that marital monogamy is like playing Russian roulette, but using 5 bullets. Actually I think it's even worse than that. Sorry, but I've been there, and also I live in this world and I see what happens and I see what married people turn into.

I still say that ilbbaicnl got it right:
"The (literal) harem thing is a bad idea. It's hard enough for a woman to be happy when she's got only one source of dick, even when she's got exclusive rights to it."

I wish he would chime in on this thread and give more explanation.

Polyamory means that both the women and the man have multiple partners. And it is not just throw away sex. It can mean life long association.

I am building my own organization. Suffice to say, paying for sex is only a way of recruiting new women. After that, there is to be no money involved in that manner.

SJG

I'd prefer just one. It would make life a lot easier.

But I've yet to find that "one" that I never get tired of at some point.

I only have one..............one in each major city I travel to. Which amounts to 3 right now. I'm always looking for 2-3 more. There are a couple areas where I have no one. It gets expensive though this time of year. I try to buy for them and all of their kids a significant gift that they will remember. Average cost per GF is $500-$800. A couple who have been on board for 4 years now still talk about the gifts I've gotten them and their kids. It's very rewarding to help them in this way. They really start to love you and will do anything for you and I will do the same for them if I can financially. Polyamory can work and be very fulfilling.
As far as lunar cycles I don't track them and don't need to track them. I don't know what it is but my girls are on a type of birth control where they say they have no periods. Works for me.

Norplant?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levonorges…

Maybe Depo Provera?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depot_medr…

Don't know. But my own experience is that when women tell you stuff about what sort of contraceptive they use, Don't Believe Them!

SJG

Marty Balin - i specialize in love
released in 1962
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBz8nJ9r…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9F5tLsA…

If I can get me some Juice that is all I need

If I find some sexy hot girls who are good in bed, don't talk a lot, don't mind if their guy looks at porn or visits strip clubs, I'll let you know. Maybe I wouldn't, those girls would be like a top secret find.

I've always been pretty open minded, meaning that more lovers should be better. But then on the other hand, I've always had to compromise with what women wanted, monogamy. And I do believe that people should keep their commitments.

But after this thread and some private convos with various tusclers, I've come to change my position.

Consenting adults have a right to do what they want. But at a societal level, privileging monogamy is immoral.

For one thing, sexual monogamy is what keeps capitalism and the work ethic alive. It prevents the formation of larger social groupings. It is how people are kept subjugated by religion and the nation state.

For another, sexual monogamy always comes down to using children to justify the lives of the adults. This is exploitation. This is abuse.

SJG

Vanilla Fudge "You Keep Me Hanging On" Live on Jimmy Fallon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuisGkFc…

I had actually wondered if your name was derived from something your ex might have called you in anger in the closing acts.

I say that consenting adults can do what they want, but that monogamy is still going to be a death trap in most situations, and so we should come up with other arrangements.

Why I like strippers with long finger nails and why I wouldn't let them cook:
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…

See you folks tomorrow.

Welcome back Coldnshallow.

Having more women posters really does help. And I feel not that I can speak for the majority of those on this forum that we have learned to disagree and discuss while keeping it civil.

SJG

Adelita's Way, inspired by a girl who poured out her heart, in TJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05saGcz_…

I believe it to be true that when a woman is cohabitating with a man, she stops being able to engage in good sex. It starts to fall apart, as is nearly universal with married couples.

Often the guy will then give into her demands for marriage, believing that if he gives her what he she wants, then she will be happy and things will be good again. He is wrong. Once married, the list of things she wants will multiply 10x, as things get worse and worse and worse. So even though a woman may insist on monogamy and marriage, giving in to her is about the worst thing anyone will ever do to her. Once the two submit to marriage, then they are subjected to all manner of societal forces which work to destroy their sexuality, while making the marriage ever more escape proof.

Because marriage is such a death trap, you find that many middle aged couples turn to swinging. They want to keep the sex good. And there does seem to be some need for an open selection process and for the women to prepare via dolling up. Otherwise it just would degenerate into neuroticism, and I think anyone who has ever been married knows this.

And then most animosity between parents and children comes about when the parents are not living up to their own values. They don't want to admit that they have choices. So they live in Bad Faith. And then they start saying that it is all for the children. Well this is the epitome of child exploitation.

"Bad Faith - A lie, especially to the self. Self-deception, the paradox of lying to the self, usually in an attempt to escape the responsibility of being an individual. The extreme example cited by existentialists is, “I was only following orders.” Any denial of free will is an example of bad faith. Sartre believed all moments of Bad Faith (Mauvaise Foi) were self-evident, contradicting many psychologists."

http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/ex_lexic…

SJG

Humble Pie, Rolling Stone ( Catfish Blues )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryf08xeP…

I have no idea SJG what kind of birth control these gals are on. They just told me the have no periods while on this method. Maybe Coldnshallow being a woman could tell us what this is. All I know is I trust them to be honest with me and they always have been. I guess I could ask but I try not to get too personal.

And Yes Welcome Back Coldnshallow !

I'm not sure I agree with everything stated about marriage here SJG. I Think it can work for many couples just not for all.

I've only recently moved to this more extreme anti-monogamy position myself. But I am hoping that we can have a good discussion about it and all learn from this. Not so much a debate, but a discussion which draws in people with varied view points.

Thanks,

SJG

Beethoven's 9th
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3217H8J…

Not sure if Depoprevara or Norplant are supposed to eliminate menstruation, or if that is a good idea. The original contraceptive pills, as I see it, take a sensible approach. Not being a doctor though, there is much I don't know about such matters.

So CNS, it sounds like you are a strong believer in sexual monogamy. Might you like to say something about this?

SJG

Stevie Wonder ★ Don't You Worry 'Bout A Thing , look at the drum kits!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y74Fhyk0…

I think monogamy was always just a means of social control. It never applies to the men at the top of the society. I mean, just look at the Patriarchal Narrative in Genesis. There is Abraham with his maid servant Hagar. And then look at Jacob and all of his maid servants.

Women always act like they want it, like they want it more than anything else in this world. But what it is that they really are wanting? Seems like mostly they just want the social status which comes with it.

And then why would it be that they are in such need? I say it is just because they are forced to live in an oppressive and very insecure world. They are kept without status and safety, and when there is no reason for this.

We have got to be able to do better, as the present way does not work, and so we should be addressing this out in the open instead of covertly.

SJG

John Legend - Save Room live at Royal Albert Hall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YgmaAXP…

And then there's Jacob's son Judah and Tamar by the roadside.

http://www.amazon.com/Harlot-Side-Road-F…

And then Joseph is given the daughter of an Egyptian Priest. We only hear about her, but I'm sure she was a huge improvement.

SJG

http://usccb.org/bible/2samuel/6
16
As the ark of the LORD was entering the City of David, Michal, daughter of Saul, looked down from her window, and when she saw King David jumping and dancing before the LORD, she despised him in her heart.

David there dancing in front of the Ark, and Michal being irritated. This has often been taken to mean that Michal did not get along with David, or felt unloved, or it's just that she was now an aging member of a harem.

Okay, well monogamy is not the solution to this either. Women need to find productive things to do. And we men should help with this as we can.

The harems of old are not the answer, but neither is monogamy. Most of our rules are actually designed to prevent the free circulation of women.

SJG

People have written about animals at great length. If they perform a vasectomy on a male bird, the female partner will still usually get fertilized. There are lots of curious behaviors among animals, as there are among humans.

With bonobos, almost as close to use as chimpanzees, it is an day and all night fuck fest.

Okay, but just because animals do something one particular way, this does not mean that we should.

What Robin Baker says is that humans are very rare in that the female shows no signs and has no conscious knowledge of her time of fertility. But in fact her body knows, so that her body can drive her to cuckold and her conscious mind will not be able to betray her.

Male infidelities are usually detected. But female infidelities are much more severely punished. So when women do it they are much more careful, and so they don't get caught.

So lots of times a woman will find one man she wants to be the genetic father of her child, while she has a regular partner whom she wants to raise it.

So women are biologically built to be able to deceive.

And I personally feel that anyone who has had dealings with women has felt this, that there is something more to them which is not conscious and cannot be expressed. I believe it all comes down to this concealment from even themselves of their time of ovulation.

http://www.amazon.com/Sperm-Wars-Infidel…

But just like with the talk about animals, I am prepared to set Robin Baker's ideas aside. We should not be trying to describe nature and then use that to prescribe how people should live.

And you know, there have been daily photo studies, without telling the women what they were looking for of course. But their bodies broadcast their time of ovulation, in how much and how dark of eye makeup they wear.

You wrote, "Personally, I feel sexual monogamy is the way to go."

This I understand perfectly well. It is your right to feel that way and to want that and to try and get it.

I hope that you do indeed get what you want. But to myself I would say that I'm not sure that what you say you want would actually result in your happiness.

Here is one of our regulars getting really turned on by a dream, where two guys are fucking his hated ex-wife:
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…

This is why lots of people turn to swing clubs, to get turned on by watching their wife be fucked by other guys. And the women are even more crazy about this than the men are.

http://www.amazon.com/Lifestyle-Look-Ero…

I have known strippers who are just the happiest people around. They love to be fucked. Any guy wants to fuck them, they are ready. Yes, most of the time they are getting paid, but this doesn't mean that they like it any less, or that they might not sometimes do it for free.

One in particular I met in Redwood City, but she usually worked in the most brothel like of the San Francisco clubs, Market St. Cinema.

I didn't ever have sex with her, but she was just tremendous fun to talk with. And as I was clearly attracted to her, she was just eating that up.

With my ex, it is real clear to me that she was in love with being married, but that being around me made her extremely unhappy. And now that we are no longer married, it is still very hard for her to accept what she has lost.

So I am inclined to see this as the Physicist Richard Feynman does, as love being a nonsense rationalization invented by women looking for the social legitimacy and security of marriage.

My wife and I each tried in our own way to make it work. I feel that she was just incapable of being a person to person partner, and was instead invested in enforcing normative standards and seeking the approval of her friends and family.

Beyond a point this is just simply intolerable.

And then I had not learned to assert myself and move further from the straight and narrow. So I was just a sitting duck target for her attacks and delegitmation. I had not fucked enough women before I was married, otherwise it would not have been like it was. I would never have married such a person, if indeed I ever married at all.

So was my wife bad? Am I bad? I think the institution of marriage is bad!

After this long hard experience, I have come to believe that people need to be united in a mission. And the chances of success are not necessarily best with monogamy.

This is a radio broadcaster I used to listen to. He may have softened some in later decades, but he had been completely opposed to monogamy. Even at the end, he promoted polyamory.

http://w11.hai.org/stan/

Even married people need outside same sex friends. So the issue then is not if you will be only engaging with one person, rather it is do you engage with the world as part of a couple that is following a set of societal rules, or do you engage as an individual, or are you part of some larger social unit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory

As you can see from the proliferation of strip clubs, a large number of married men are not faithful. Why is this?

And are women really any less interested in outside liaisons, or do they just feel that they would have too much to lose? And is this really fair?

What percentage of the married people you know are happy? And would you really want to be like them? I would not.

But like I say, you have a right to your views and I am not going to try and debate you.

Might you be willing to say more about what you see in monogamy and marriage? And are you willing to say anything about why and how your earlier marriage failed, if you even want to look at it this way? And then about all the very unhappy married people we see all around, care to comment?

Right now I am reading J. K. Rowling's "Casual Vacancy", and it is a work packed solid with very unhappy and dishonest middle-class marrieds, muggles.

BO

Nirvana
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWmkuH1k…

@san_jose_guy

i have a question. when you post as @Coldnshallow do you cross dress as a female or do you put on the white lab coat you stole when you walked away from the asylum to conduct your little "experiment"?

DoctorPhil,

Get your hundred legs back under your rock!

SJG

@san_jose_guy

for fuck sake go buy a parrot if you need to have a "discussion" but stop with the online back and forth between yourself and your imagined female alter ego. enough with the "experiment" already

dumbass

The very idea of monogamy is that you do it just once. So you don't get any practice runs. It isn't supposed to be a self improvement project. Making it into one is neurotic.

My own issue with it is that it is not a relationship between you and a partner. Yes I have read books, and I don't talk about them because I find them to be wrong, down right absurd. They want to make you believe that it is all about you and your partner and your communications skills. They don't want to admit that it is more like two people being coerced by societal expectations, and that there is serious power politics in play. Both parties are being held by the short hairs.

For me, paying women for sex was in AMPs. We didn't have FS strip clubs then, not even in San Francisco. It was an adventure and great fun. Most of all because I never talked to the girls as though I thought they offered sex for money. I always treated them as civilians. I've never gone along with the doctrines which divide women into two categories. I still don't. I've always tried to understand how these originated and how they can be dismantled.

So I always treat all women like civilians. Money can pay for them to be able to be in that place and be available, but this is all. I would never try to use money to persuade them to do anything. They have always at least in principle consented, before there is any talk of money. And talk of money always has to start with them. If they never say anything, and sometimes they don't, then they get the accepted friend price at the end.

But I have also always maintained, including here on this forum and facing much animosity over it, that prostitution does not really solve anything, not long term. Same for strip club visits. Using them for sexual gratification is perverted. It is perverted, not because you are doing too much of something. This is not how sexual perversion works. It is when you are not engaging fully enough, because something else is in the way that it becomes perversion.

When guys go to strip clubs and get sex or sex acts in the 'extras' mode, as a service a girl is performing on them, but without lowering her emotional barriers, that is a form of perversion.

I never go for that. I've declined it when in San Francisco. They want to give me HJ or BBBJ, or maybe even FS. But the conditions would not be good. The girl is not opening up to me. In many cases I've turned it around on them and DATYed ( Dining At The Y ) them. They don't get that much of this, and for sure it really softens them right up. Better to do it this way as it has lasting effect and opens doors to bigger things, then get something from them in 'extras' mode.

I'm only interested in GFE ( Girl Friend Experience ) FS.

BJ or HJ 'till completion is something to do in some other context, like overnighters where there is lots of time for multiple rounds, or in an off the clock sexual relationship, like when the girl wants to do that because Aunt Flo ( her menstruation ) is visiting. Otherwise, and especially in P4P ( Pay 4 Play ) situations, I want GFE-FS.

That has a big emotional effect on both parties. And it is to be GFE because I want the girl to open up to me from the outset.

You can't negotiate or talk a girl into opening up. All you can do is set up the externals of the situation, and then see. Doesn't always work, but it works often enough, and the results are phenomenal for both parties.

AMPs ( store front Asian Massage Parlors ) are not like escorts or AAMPs ( Apartment Asian Massage Parlors, the Asian version of an escort service ). In AAMPs GFE is the norm. But still, sometimes it is better than others. In AMPs GFE is not at all the norm. So it depends upon what sort of relationship you are able to make happen with the girl in a short period of time. The window shopping and initial flirtations have a big effect, because she only knows what she sees and hears.

I never mention money until they do. I resist any temptation to start talking about money as a way of persuading a girl who is reluctant. To do that would be to insult her.

So I just keep being myself with her and talking to her and letting her get comfortable and feel that she knows me.

Because I treat her no differently than I would treat any other woman, I get mind blowing GFE sessions which usually end with the girl wanting me to take her home with me. It turns into a Girl Friend Audition, like a first date. Where as most other guys get 'extras' from a girl who is glad to be done because her arm is getting tired.

I am convinced that the flirtations and selection process are just as important to sex as anything else. And this is true for women at least as much as it is for men. It is just that for a woman to show such raw sexual desire is not socially acceptable. They have to put it in terms of lifelong monogamy, otherwise they are subjected to social censure and they get called nasty sounding names.

So in my AMP sessions the girls have lots of fun! And then when I come back a few weeks later, the co-workers are still talking about what happened between me and a girl the last time.

So we don't have the extreme types of strip clubs where I live. But I will in the future be doing business traveling across this country and some of Mexico. I have much to look forward to.

I have always maintained though that the only reasons to visit strip clubs, or anything else like them, are:

1. To imbibe a sexual aesthetic, like getting an education. Those women who can really open up to strangers are a real treasure, and we should cherish them and learn from them. Some of them have completely rocked my world. And then with the high heels and makeup, taking sex out of the mundane realm by dressing for it. Getting this sort of an education is what people went to the temples for in the ancient world. Culture and settled living all came from this.

2. For those well outside societal norms who want for some reason to have some sort of outside relationships with the women.

And notice that with neither of these reasons would you need be going to these places that often, so the high costs are no longer a big issue.

For me it has been reason 1. But soon it will be reason 2, especially as I will be spreading an organization and a business into new geographic areas. Those women who can rock someone's world are the ones I want to know and be involved with. They are erotic instead of neurotic.

So my own personal objectives go way beyond strip clubs or paying women for sex. These are just ways of getting things started. We need to take what we learn in strip clubs and other P4P venues and recreate them in our own lives. I am already doing this.

I think the idea is also that as sex is taken to a higher level, it is so good that eternity and the present moment collapse into one. So one transcendent experience with one partner lasts a lifetime. And then what you are doing with subsequent partners as passing that along to them.

And so in say an AMP, I am always focused on making it so good for the girl, that even if I never see her again, this one time she will remember for the rest of her life.

And the AMP girls and other pros who are good are trying to achieve the very same thing themselves with each client who is open to it. So we all work to keep it alive with each subsequent round.

Religion has always been about making love safe and universal, instead of the arena of jealously, vengeance and homicide which it usually is.

ColdnShallow,

Would you like to say anything about why you find so much in monogamy, and to maybe tell us about your own personal experiences good and bad, and also about any books or other source materials which have influenced your views.

My own view is that the problem with monogamy is that both partners are made subordinate to society norms, and so that what they do comes to make very little difference, as they are under attack. Most of the "relationship" books are written to keep people form seeing this, and to make the more fully submit by believing that difficulties are all because of their own deficiencies.

If people want sex to be a part of their emotional and spiritual life, then they have to understand that the selection process is probably the most important part. So we need to set up venues where this will play out.

ilbbaicnl wrote, "Hypothetically, the more the better, as long as they are all interesting and beautiful in their own unique way. But it's purely hypothetical. No matter how rich or hot a man is, it's a rare woman who's going to as good a lover as she can be with a guy she only sees very occasionally. The (literal) harem thing is a bad idea. It's hard enough for a woman to be happy when she's got only one source of dick, even when she's got exclusive rights to it."

I think he is right.

SJG

Richard Dawkins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLtOffrp…

Paul Rodgers - Free - Wishing Well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4F2Y1sG…

Bad Company.Live At Seminole Hard Rock 2008, notice the 5 string bass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3uvx_GL…

ColdnShallow wrote,

"As far as the way you perceive women... I think your view is off. Its the type of women that you surround yourself with that are going to make you view us all that particular way. Perhaps you should step outside the circle that you're in. It's a great big world out there with ALL different types of people. We aren't all money grubbers that just want to have sex till the wedding ceremony and then we're done. Mrs. Seaboard was on point with her comment about wanting men to continue to seek us out. I think it's really about the chase and wanting to feel beautiful, appreciated and wanted. When you don't feel that, how can you feel interest in your partner. If he's out chasing after strippers ... What's the point in giving him the love. "

We are still talking around each other. The issue is not women, the issue is how our society privileges monogamy, and then how one who submits to that is then forced to submit to all manner of societal norms.

You might say that it is women who are doing evil, but I believe that to be unfair, just like it is in the Garden of Eden narrative.

Rather it is simply that a monogamous union is regulated by outside forces. No way round it.

I look and I look and Iook, and there is very little which offers any encouragement.

Whereas amongst those who don't walk the straight and narrow, the possibilities are abundant.

ColdnShallow, perhaps you would like to relate some of your own experiences, as well as what you are observing which makes you want to morally privilege monogamy.

SJG

Yes they are the sorts of things I was hoping you would discuss.

So you wrote, " I was enjoying my youth, sexuality and freedom."

But then you say "it did not last long..."

And then, "I learned very quickly this was not for me."

Might you be willing to say more about this? Like did you start to feel outside pressure? Or did you start to feel that there was something wrong about what you were doing?

Did you feel that guys were treating you badly?

SJG

Partying sometimes means drugs and alcohol. I don't support that at all.

But feeling cheap is sometimes used to talk about the idea that sex is bad. Of course you have the right to decide what you do and don't do. But this does not mean that sex is bad.

I mean, we all need to be learning and growing, and in relationships which support this.

Some women, you might call them radicals, see resisting the social codes which seek to restrict sex to marriage and marriage oriented relationships, as standing out from the crowd.

Some women do this, and they find that guys start giving them money, and so they go with this.

Not all stripper / sex workers are self aware. But some really are. For some the money really is secondary, as what they do has larger meaning for them. Most of the time they are reaching out to guys far more damaged than they are.

Again though, only you can decide what you want to do in a situation. Being able to face yourself after the fact is important.

I feel that our society is very unfair in many many ways. I also feel that marriage and monogamy are part of this injustice.

I think people who are able to have very good sex lives would never allow themselves to get caught in the kinds of horrors that I and so many others have had to experience.

Although I do feel that I handled myself well, and I don't actually blame it on my ex-wife, I still feel that what I had to endure was unfair.

I feel that women and men both are taught that sex, lots of it, lots of real good sex, and sex with lots of people is bad. Again I say that this sort of a teaching is wrong, and that we need to come to understand it so that we can pull it out by it's roots.

A thread I hoped would get more depth of reply than it did:
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…

SJG

Kiss - Lick It Up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcj34Xix…

@san_jose_guy

for fuck sake go buy a parrot if you need to have a "discussion" but stop with the online back and forth between yourself and your imagined female alter ego. enough with the "experiment" already

dumbass

Coldnshallow
I've been away for a few days and am just getting caught up on the discussion here. I also am a subscriber to the GFE. I was with my GFE girl in Southern Indiana on Thursday night. We have a special relationship. We took a year off by my choice because of some external pressures but now we are back together. I love her very much and would do anything for her that I could. I think she feels the same way about me. We had a fun time Thursday night going to dinner and just talking about our jobs and life and family. After dinner we went back to my hotel room and I gave her her Christmas gifts and a gift for her son. Then we crawled between the sheets for some fun. As I said I love her very much. I however feel that I have more love within me than for just one person. I also have another in a different area that I feel the same way about. I also love her very much. They both know about each other but have never met. I have discussed each one to the other and they are cool with it. They are not jealous of each other because I treat them equally in every respect and I love them both very much. I would never want to have to make a choice. They both fulfill me as a man and I also take good care of them and fulfill them as women. I think I could only go back to manogomy if something were to happen to one of those relationships. I have decided I am satisfied with the two now and have stopped seriously looking for another relationship of this type. I have had three at one time but the third never worked out. It made things to complicated anyway and I never had the love for the third that i did for the two either. She fell away on her own and I just let her go. It just was not to be.
Feel free to comment. I can handle constructive criticism.

Since I've got one mouth, 2 hands, and a pussy....I'm gonna go with four.

Can't argue with that !

Coldnshallow wrote, "Actually, it's sounds more like he's saying woman won't want to stay around If there not getting enough attention or affection no matter how attractive, how rich, of how good the sex is."

I do not agree that this is what lbbaicnl had said. What he wrote is,
"No matter how rich or hot a man is, it's a rare woman who's going to as good a lover as she can be with a guy she only sees very occasionally. "

And it is from this that I extrapolate to say that marriage and monogamy are bad for women.

Coldnshallow wrote, "A man can NOT speak for a woman."

No one can ever speak for anyone else, but if we are going to have a relationship with them, we do need to do our best to be able to understand them.

In traditional societies relations between a man and a woman were dictated by outside social norms. Now they are not, as there are no real rules anymore. In fact, if you allow yourself to be outer directed, you will be eaten alive by advertising.

A couple has to be able to form their own partnership, otherwise they have no chance. And to do this, each needs to try and understand the other.

My ex-wife could not disregard or tell off her girlfriends, so there were always problems. And then it went downhill from there.

ColdnShallow wrote, " If a woman has been very sexual for the majority of her life and is pretty open minded and there is love between her and her man not to mention she enjoys dressing up for him and making things interesting in the bedroom...would he still need to see strippers and get extras?"

This is unlikely. Usually a woman who is very sexual and likes to dress for sex, is not committed to monogamy.

Most women have sex. But they don't dress for it, as that means premeditation. They have been taught that they have to let the man do it. Otherwise they are "sluts", and otherwise they can't use passive submission to sex in order to force the man into further levels of commitment.

As far as needing 'extras", no I don't go along with 'extras' thinking.

But as far as needing strippers, there has to be some source of sexual aesthetics, some way to make it erotic instead of neurotic Strip clubs are our version of the ancient world's pagan temples. It's just that most people don't understand this.

CNS wrote, "You guys are gonna slow down too and if you were in a monogomous relationship and the shoe was on the other foot how would you feel if your wife just started steppin out on you?"

Where this issue has been raised, I've always held to the position that visiting strip clubs, AMPs, or anything else like that is marital infidelity. Sometimes though it is just a matter of trying to stay sane. But then you need to remember that you do it for that reason, and so it is not the real solution.

I believe that we need to set up a scholarship fund, send some of these girls to school so that they can become divorce lawyers.

CNS wrote, ".... I did everything I could to show my man how much I loved and appreciated him. He was the 1 that lost the drive. ..."

I'm always telling my ex that she is not bad and I am not bad, but our society is. And by this I mean that marriage is bad!

For one thing it turns sex into toxic neuroticism.

MrsSeaboard wrote, "But here are some of the reasons I think why-guys start taking them for granted, busy lives and not taking the time for each other so the romance goes away. Woman need to feel wanted/appreciated and the majority of guys think once you're married they no longer have to continue the pursuit of her."

I don't think this really happens much, not in a vacuum. Most guys understand that they need to be good to their wives. If they stop, it is because there are other unsolved tensions in play.

CNS wrote, "Personally, I feel sexual monogamy is the way to go. I can't just give myself to anyone or have multiple partners. There has to be love between us. It's 1 man for me."

Well you've spoken of the hypothetical of a woman who is very sexual. If she strongly believes in monogamy, then she almost can't be very sexual, as she believes that sex has to be predicated on this condition. So she sees sex as being used to enforce something she believes in, to get something.

You spoke of dating someone without having sex for a long time. Well I'm not going to go into specifics, but I have plenty of experience with that. The girl one does that with is someone who is not "highly sexual".

Highly sexual and monogamy in a woman are mutually exclusive.

ColdnShallow wrote, " Mrs. Seaboard was on point with her comment about wanting men to continue to seek us out."

Well that is all but impossible when you are cohabitating with a woman, let alone married. She has got the guy by the short hairs already. So it really can't be like unmarried people courting. He is always a target for emotional terrorism. Women can spew out negativity because they know that there can't be any consequence.

I am sure this is why lots of conservative married people turn to swing clubs. Nothing like watching other guys fuck your wife, to get you going again. Nothing like seeing that she lets you fuck other women to make the relationship feel safe again.

ColdnShallow wrote, "As far as the way you perceive women... I think your view is off. Its the type of women that you surround yourself with that are going to make you view us all that particular way. Perhaps you should step outside the circle that you're in. It's a great big world out there with ALL different types of people. We aren't all money grubbers that just want to have sex till the wedding ceremony and then we're done. Mrs. Seaboard was on point with her comment about wanting men to continue to seek us out. I think it's really about the chase and wanting to feel beautiful, appreciated and wanted. When you don't feel that, how can you feel interest in your partner. If he's out chasing after strippers ... What's the point in giving him the love. "

Those who want marriage, they want that.

It can work when both people are fairly well centered within normative society. But even then, they are sacrificing much, both of them.

Things fall apart when there are outside induced unresolvable conflicts, instead of partnership.

But when the partnership is that strong, the marriage is secondary, even totally unnecessary.

If my ex-wife was willing to be a partner, she'd be doing it right now. But she isn't. She was married to the external status of being married.

And so having been married to her, I am very lucky that I am even still alive. I escaped a death trap, but just barely escaped it.

SJG

Stay away from women who present themselves as highly sexual, but have it all bound up with an objective, like marriage.

It is not that the women are bad, but marriage is definitely bad. It makes you subordinate to all manner of social control, and much of this is propagated through advertising. It is not unlike selling your soul, or like slavery.

I am convinced that it harms both men and women.

They say that married men live longer than single men. But married women live shorter lives than single women.

Sex and money are usually tightly bound. It is just that in marriage the ways they are intertwined are covert.

A hypothetical question to you Coldnshallow. We know you are interested in learning about strip clubs. Otherwise you wouldn't be posting here.

Would you decline to work in one because it promotes marital infidelity?

Suppose it was one like here in Sunnyvale, zero touching. Would you still decline because guys are stepping out on their wives just to go and look and talk?

But then would you also say that our entire society should be sanitized of sexually provocative images, and even of anything which suggests female sexuality.

They used to say in France that Brigitte Bardot was the secret desire of every married man.

Lock her up? Burn her alive?

Make her wear a berka?

See, I've gotten along with lots of strippers. But most of them are not strongly committed to monogamy, and especially the ones who do FS.

I like them. It is not just that they are on the menu, I actually like them.

SJG

Deep Purple - Live At California Jam 1974
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ-CMPqv…

Bardot didn't work at a strip club, but she filled the imagination of every married man, or so they say.

Do you think she should have been eliminated, or kept under wraps, to avoid promoting marital infidelity of the imagination?

And what Coldnshallow do you mean by 'class"?

I have found this to be really dangerous area, and especially when coming from women. Mostly it seems to mean that sex is to be subordinated to socio-economic status and middle-class norms. It means turning eroticism into neuroticism.

Personally I'd take celibacy before I would accept that.

How do you mean it?

SJG

@san_jose_guy

still experimenting i see. so what’s the answer to my question?

when you post as @coldnshallow do you cross dress as a female or do you put on the white lab coat you stole when you walked away from the asylum to conduct your little "experiment"?

DoctorPhil,

One hundred legs, all of them, under the rock, or I'm going to start pulling them off one by one.

SJG

Well sexy and beautiful is exactly what our TUSCL members go to strip clubs to enjoy. Anything wrong with that?

SJG

I wonder if Coldnshallow might be SJG's mother.

@san_jose_guy.

i take your response as “avoidance” to admit that you have taken up cross dressing. you should know that there is nothing inherently wrong with cross dressing but it is my professional responsibility to advise you that with your severely fucked up id, you are likely to completely lose it. now i don’t much care if you decide to go start working the street on Alvarado (which you will) but in spite of the astronomical odds against it, i do fear that your first “John” will be @JohnSmith69.

i needn’t tell you that as soon as he ass rapes you, you are both going to find that you like anal so much there will never be anything else. on the positive side he won’t be running the risk of further procreation and YOU won’t be raping some innocent young girl after you slip in her bedroom through an open window. on the negative side, i do not believe the TUSCL discussion board can survive with both of you incessantly posting about your non-stop anal escapades.


and stop sending your psycho PMs moron

@coldnshallow
No I don't mind if the girls have other lovers. This is a GFE fantacy we are in and as l Iong as they make me their man while I'm in town. I am fine with what they do on their own time.