Guys shed some light on this

Men do not have unlimited choices on who they fuck and who they can marry. A great sexual partner may be very poor marriage material. OTOH, a great wife might not the best sex partner or most beautiful, but you love her for who she is.

Yes, in a perfect world you want both, but the reality is we don't look for 20+ years to find her. Sometimes you get lucky, but usually not.

At 73 I have absolutely no interest in getting married again or even dating women my own age. I'd rather just pay a dancer for a fantasy and go home by myself. Yeah I'm shallow.

I'm not sure what other guys opinions are but in my opinion, guys may go out with dancers just for fun not thinking about getting seriously involved. Their families or relatives especially female relatives might come from a conservative background and would disapprove of finding out you visited a strip club and really might not like to hear you were dating a stripper. It might be like Hillary Clinton supporters finding out she was secretly dating Donald Trump and getting serious. That is if she was divorced. People don't like to rock the boat among their friends and relatives. They stay quiet. just my opinion.

I understand they don't have unlimited choices but I see a lot of girls including myself at certain points in my life who in my opinion would have made good wives or gf that get turned away because of dancing. I guess the family thing makes sense. My own family didn't take it well when they found out so other peoples families may have a hard time taking it.

On the other hand it's possible the guy may not take things seriously because he doesn't think anything serious could possibly develop. If the guy is 20 years older and she has a ton of tatoos and smokes and or does other things that may not please him as a life long partner, he might not think of her seriously as marriage material but he might be happy to have sex.
Guys can have sex with girls and not feel that connected. In fact for guys, sex is sort of like exercise like bicycling except they feel a pressure release. After it's over, they are ready to do other things, after resting.

@shark guys aren't the only ones like that. I've had sex with guys before and said that was good, cleaned up and left and never thought anything more about it lol

There was a dancer at a low mileage club that I was interested in potentially something more serious with. However, that idea was always predicated on her having an exit strategy. I could never show up at a work function with her and be like:"yet her shift at the local titty bar starts at 10." That would cause so much friction with my boss and co-workers. The excess baggage isn't necessarily a problem for me in a vacuum, but life's not like that. Family and friends and co-workers get factored in too.

Plus there are a surprising amount of civies who are down with some bed room kink without the dancer baggage.

There's a stigma being a dancer; no doubt about it. A bigger problem though is the huge number of dancers who are flakes. They lie, cheat, break dates all the time, can't save money, live in a pig sty, have multiple kids from multiple men....

I would marry my ATF for her looks and personality but I can't rely on her for ANYTHING. In fact she just broke a date yesterday, so I went to the club and spent quality time with my new #2, who is surprisingly reliable.

Poledancer, I don't know if you're one of the small % of dancers who can manage a normal life outside the club, but if so there's plenty of guys who would be serious about you for a LTR. If you want a white collar husband, you can't be all tatted up though and if you're a smoker it would help to quit.

Be aware even 'civi' girls struggle to find Mr. Right since so many men are pigs. Men who frequent clubs are at the top of the list, myself included. Oink. Educated men prefer educated women for wives; for sexual partners they're a LOT less picky.

oh I know men are pigs lol, this isn't really about me I am happy the way I am im just curious in general

mjx01: Oh yes as far as kink. My ATF is depressingly vanilla, while one of my civi friends and past sexual partner was in to stuff that's probably illegal in the Bible Belt! She wanted to marry me but there were too many things about her I couldn't deal with as a wife unfortunately but she's a great girl for somebody. Pity she's not a FWB now, just a friend as she doesn't sleep around if she's not dating the guy. But I hold out hope! LOL

I may never get married so I don't know if I'm the best one to listen to.

Great sex and marriage aren't mutually exclusive. For the man and the woman we'd both want someone who can satisfy us sexually. Sex workers may have more experience and in general be better at it, but doesn't mean they are the sole propietor of it. As far as dating sex workers as in a serious relationship, most men are too insecure. Too many men think that if a woman is grinding, taking off her clothes, dancing, etc for men automatically means she's also having sex with them too. Doesn't have to be the case.

To be fair there's a large percentage of women, sex worker or not, who are just as insecure. And just like a strong, secure woman, a strong, secure man isn't likely or willing to play the bs game of Jealousy.

JS69 said it best, we want hot sex with a woman who isn't going to run you through the wringer because she's an emotional train wreck.

Unfortunately, hit sex seems to be tied to emotional train wrecks. And boring sex to girls who are more emotionally stable (not that any woman is absolutely stable emotionally )

I've noticed that girls who have Hot Sex a actually more self centered, entitled, a generally less responsible than the boring girls.

So the double standard isn't a double standard really, it's a decision "Boring Sex with a less drama-filled loyal and responsible woman who will help me take care of my home and assets and actually provide support to help me to continue to down that road of success" OR "Great Sex that will cost me everything thing in the long run, with a woman who will bail when the next best thing comes around"

Ya that's still not an easy choice for guys to make, Sex is usually #1 on our list of priorities, but that's what I think is coming across to you as a double standard when really it's just long term thinking

---> GACA
So the double standard isn't a double standard really, it's a decision "Boring Sex with a less drama-filled loyal and responsible woman who will help me take care of my home and assets and actually provide support to help me to continue to down that road of success" OR "Great Sex that will cost me everything thing in the long run, with a woman who will bail when the next best thing comes around"
----> /GACA

And, of course, the thing about option #1 is, if your moral fiber allows for it, you can always get your great sex on the side, with a stripper, escort, etc. Choice #2 is a disaster, and no one who isn't self-destructive or blinded by lust would choose it

Getting serious with a porn star could lead to having children mothered by a porn star. Most men don't want that in their future, but still want porn star sex in the here and now.

I would love to have a normal relationship with a woman regardless of where she works, but have yet to find a woman (stripper or civilian) without a ton of baggage or issues because of what dudes have done to them in previous relationships and they hold it against every guy they date. It's why I'm in this hobby. Have some fun, no worries about commitment. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I don't cheat and I treat women with respect.

My ex-wife was the closest I found to not having that baggage until her bipolar disorder took a turn for the worst. Then my life was hell. No sex, no love, and wondering when I was going to get my head ripped off for something. Before that the sex was good, and we got along great.

Finding that special someone is difficult and quite frankly the older you get the harder it is to find someone imo. Most of my married friends say they wouldn't get married again if they divorced or their wife passed away. I'm in the same boat, I don't plan on ever getting married again, but my heart is a sucker and I could see myself falling for someone enough to consider it again.

I hope you find what you're looking for poledancer, there are some good guys out there, you just have to find them. If most women understood you could keep the majority of men happy with the mantra "keep his stomach full, and his penis empty" there wouldn't be as many issues with relationships. Guys will do just about anything for a woman if they know a good blowjob is coming at the end if the day. Lol

"Yeah I'm shallow"

shallowcat?

there ain't nothing wrong with some vanilla

A lot of non-dancers also consider BJs and anal a part of normal sex too, so I'm not sure that's a huge distinction! Guys just have a weird "I like fucking slutty women" but "I don't want her to be too slutty" internal contradiction!

I don't think I'm that way! I think it would be brilliant to date a dancer if we shared some common interests! Even if it is just dachshunds!

Also I lucked out with my last girlfriend because she liked giving rimjobs! I'm not sure how money women like that, but rimjobs are brilliant!

Of course my ex was crazy, so the rimjobs had a cost! Crazy = not brilliant! :(

Common interests beyond cute puppies would be nice though! I really like space exploration! The "Pluto! Pluto! Pluto!" posts were sincere! :)

Not only do I want sex with a crazy hot stripper, I want sex with a lot of different crazy hot strippers. I don't want to marry any of them. And I don't want to marry or have sex with a bland boring normal woman.

I actually dated a stripper once. It was interesting. I met her at college and she told me she was a dancer. Since she was studying performing arts I thought she was like a regular dancer but then she told me she was a stripper I was like ok. I stuck with the relationship for quite some time afterwards because she was a really nice girl, and I still liked her. But some mutual trust issues popped up over time and we had a pretty bad break up. Would I date a stripper again? That really REALLY depends on all the circumstances involved. But I wouldn't turn any girl down because of how she makes a living. I'm way too open minded to be that shallow.

I try not to judge anyone too early especially just because of their job. If a girl worked as a dancer but was really into me and stable and made me happy in multiple ways, what's not to like? Family and relatives wouldn't even have to know about her other job unless she blurted it out. They wouldn't know because almost all my relatives live in other states across the US.
I'm probably lucky I didn't grow up in Australia. I think my life would have been a lot different.

I think rockstar made some common sense points – it is pretty much about stigma – and it goes both ways – many custies are also stigmatized for being SC aficionados – I, as well as other SCers; have on more than one occasion been told by *dancers* that they would not date a guy that goes to strip clubs.

Personally – I could see myself dating and *ex*-stripper or even *ex*-escort; but not a current one.

nothing wrong with Australia. I just like the US a lot better. I might want to visit Australia one day. I once talked to some girls from there online and thought they had sexy accents. same thing with Canadian girls and some uk girls. I miss the early Internet chat sites that let u talk for free internationally in chat rooms.

Usher explained a man's view perfectly -- we want a lady in the street but a freak in the bed. We want a woman who will fuck and suck like a DS, but when she leaves the house we want a lady who doesn't act or look like she does such things.

The reason we want a freak in the bed is obvious. The reason we want a lady in the street is because we don't want her to do those things with any other guy. Men are possessive. We don't want her to look or act like she'd fuck another guy even if she wouldn't cause she belongs to us. We don't want to imagine or contemplate her fucking another guy.

The problem with this standard is that it doesn't exist in real life. People are themselves in all situations. A freak is always a freak, and a lady is always a lady. You've got to choose one or the other. Very few are both.

Most men as a result choose a wife who is a lady. There are more ladies, and even ladies can get a little freak on when they are young. But that never lasts. So we turn 35, 40, or 45, and find that our sex life is crap. And has been crap for a while. And it always will be crap. Cause we married a lady but what we really needed was a freak.

I am recently separated and soon to be divorced from my sexually frigid lady. To the extent ever get seriously involved with another woman, she must be a freak. I'm done with ladies. In the meantime I just have sex with strippers cause you are all mostly freaks. One dancer is particular is my very special sexual freak. I love stripperz.

This is an example of why I thank God for giving us strippers. I wish I'd have met you a few years ago poledancer. I'd go all out Rickyboy Dugan on you.

because their boring and probably white? The stereotypical stigma of pornstars/strippers (although porn stars are reportedly less excitable when off camera) deter affluent men from wanting a serious down to earth relationship into marriage. Is it fair, no, but then again half of these strippers and porn stars live up to their stigma spiraling into drug fiends and relying on the rich to get them out (well at least they used to rely on the rich). Plus women don't want men that enter the strip club anyway as they think all men are perverts who will cheat on them anyway. Is THAT fair: no not really? Especially since there a plethora of young bucks who's genuinely interested in having a relationship and don't care (its more of a glorified thing these days.....sort of) that it's with a stripper. After all, strippers are people too. I would, but these hoes only want to "mess with the rich/famous" not the seemingly broke dude who secretly plans to move to silicon valley.

Strippers have way too much baggage for me. The sex, drugs and rock n roll is a fun ride, but you wake up and realize the relationship is not going anywhere.

;) I agree with what everybody is saying, and being in a situation where the girls will inevitably try to take advantage of me, if I ever got to close...
That is why when I am ready to settle down, I'm getting a prenup!...
"Knowledge is power." Like I said, I'm lucky! :):)

I know most are tired of hearing from me since I'm not the typical guy on here but if you keep looking you WILL eventually find that perfect guy you click with and trusts you enough for you to keep working as a stripper. We lucked up and found each other but when I met mrs sea she was def vanilla. She always tells me I turned her into a whore. But, if you date a whore and then marry a whore you better be a whore too. We do things that are still illegal in the Bible Belt but to us are just everyday normal activities between 2 people who love each other no questions asked. Like JS said about usher...a lady in the street and a freak in the bed.

You may go out with 100 guys who can't deal with your job but you'll finally find the 1 who can. Yes, it's a stigma and not really anything you can do about it so worrying about it will just make you unhappy. Strippers get a bad rap about being flighty but I think it's just a personality type. Most strippers are just about what's good for them and to hell with worrying about anyone else but you find people like that in ANY profession. If you're a decent person who keeps your word and cares about others you'll eventually overcome the stigma with someone.

Mrs sea even said she could be a dancer and we both agreed if all she had to do was dance on stage it wouldn't be a problem but hearing what the guys here post about and knowing first hand what we've been allowed to do with strippers in the back room neither of us would be okay with that.

@seaboardrr so what your saying is, these strippers need to meet me?

Having sex with strippers is an adventure. Most of the ones who will have sex with customers are kinda freaky, and that's exciting. Sadly, many strippers also come with a fair bit of what some would call baggage. Some of this baggage is indeed "baggage", e.g. daddy, abandonment, self-esteem, etc issues. Some of it is simply that strippers have often developed a jaded opinion of men, based on the ones they've met, and it's difficult to get close to them. And others are just independent, and unwilling to put up with the shit that most men demand, i.e. the whole "woman's place" thing.

Not all, but certainly many. Even my ATF, though I definitely place her firmly in the marriageable category, has some issues that would make that difficult. Not insurmountable, but difficult. Most men simply can't deal with those issues, and to be fair, don't want to.

I was not sure if I would contribute to this thread but, what the hell. I've known many women in my life and most of them have appeared sane and stable. Then I got to know them better and nearly all of them are bat-shit crazy to some degree or another. And I'm sure they can say the same about all us men. It's just how much bat-shit crazy a person is willing to deal with.

It's one thing to deal with it for a few hours in a strip club and maybe OTC, it's a whole other level to deal with it in a marriage/serious relationship.

I see a super hot former part-time stripper. Just hot as fuck and seemingly as sane as you could ask for. On my last visit the bat-shit crazy appeared and I'm very happy I don't see her more often. But I will continue to see her when I can because the sex is off the charts outstanding.

@poledancer, keep looking, keep the bat-shit crazy to a minimum and I bet it works out for you. And if it doesn't I'll be happy to help you out short-term!

Well said Corvus, well said.

Poledancer, you ask a good question. I know that lots of guys think the way you are describing, dividing women into two categories.

I have always been struck by the fact that many TUSCLer's have a deep seated disrespect for the women they are paying money to and engaging in sex acts with.

For myself I have always tried not to be like this, not to hold sex workers in contempt. After all, if I am partaking, then I am just like them. In fact, there are reasons I like them better than civilians or conservative women. I like women to dress sexy and to be highly sexual.

Even as a child I learned that the double standard is wrong, even if most people live by it.

So the girl I go after is one I would be open to all forms of long term relationship with. How that would work would remain to be seen. But there wouldn't be any reason she is disqualified up front.

There is one issue though. Lots of strippers lead screwy lives and they are screwy people. They have substance habits, they are screwy with money, and they get into problems with their automobiles and the with the law. These would place limits on what sort of relationship I could have with them.

But I also believe that this is most common with White strippers and in the United States.

Good topic.

SJG

Strippers are like a sports car – they are sexy and fun to drive but not very practical– and a bitch to own and maintain - thus many people opt for the safe family sedan.

Most men do not want crazy women helping raise their children, even if crazy women are often tigers in bed. That is why we marry sane, safe, supportive women that society sanctions as suitable spouses..

When the kids are grown and the wives are dried up, the wives either figure out how to satisfy our needs one way or the other (blow jobs work, so does anal, perhaps handjobs, maybe just not nagging us about golf is enough), or we look elsewhere. That is why divorce happens and that is why strippers exist.

@pensionking that truly sounds like a miserable life. We need more positive stories of marriage

First I'll have to image a stripper wanted to date me, which has never happened.

Most dancers would not tolerate if if there SO wanted to go out sometimes and get lap dancers from other dancers. Dancers say "I never enjoy it, it's all an act, it's different". But it's hard to believe, a dancer is going to turn down a polite, attractive custy who happens to come in the club out of loyalty to her SO? So, while dancers cry in their beer about men being unfair to them, they don't stop to think they are really looking for a power advantage in the relationship. I get to do it but you don't.

Not an issue with me, but traditions are just something people follow and don't think twice about. The tradition is, unless a relationship is exclusive, zero sexual contact of any form outside of it, it isn't serious. It might not be as hard to find a guy who will live with you while you're dancing and marry you after you stop. But he might not be ready to admit to his friends and family that he is serious about you, for fear they will look down on him.

Good question and very good replies. Lots of truisms and insight here. My take on the whole issue is probably going to be about as messed up as anybody is ever going to read. I doubt that "Pole Dancer" would respond but let me put the shoe on the other foot and ask her "would she ever date and consider a relationship with a male dancer?" Women and female dancers as a whole are horrifically threatened by guys who do this. It directly challenges the female desire to want to be front and center all the time. It is in their feminine psyche to want to be noticed and beautiful in order to attract most suitable male. They want the basic needs of a female to be filled and financial security is huge with them. I was very unique in that I have high paying job but also dance for the fun. Is it narcissism on my part? Hell yeah! Once the female dancers find out what I did for a real living though, then all of sudden the threat dynamic changes. This is their "security" activation system going in full mode. They go into a tizzy trying to reconcile it all=LOL! Some female dancers I saw fought through the threat factor and for awhile just went along with it. Intimacy sets in with them usually much quicker than with men and soon enough they would try and convince me to stop. Had I continued to have a relationship with them whereby they knew there would be a commitment then I am sure they would have stopped dancing and me as well. If they wanted to continue to dance then I would have as well. No double standards with me. Narcissism matches narcissism. Women are so damned cute though. At one club I worked at the male dancers had an area at back of bar and the females at the front. The manager tried to be strict about interaction during working hours between male and female dancers. The female dancers prided themselves on saying "oh I would never go back there and gawk" and whatnot yet they would always wander back there. I always found this funny. They want to look but their feminine psyche gets in the way.

There are a lot of things involved with a good marriage besides sex. In my experience, most dancers either cannot handle or do not want that normal type of life. Even some who think they do, and leave the business in order to live that life, eventually end up back on the pole. This does not make them bad people, but just the types who are not going to be happy with things like staying at home and raising kids, socializing with other plain vanilla Moms for school and other events, etc. So while fucking around with a dancer can be good not-so-clean fun, actually living with all of that instability and potential drama is another thing altogether, especially when there are children involved.

@Estafador -- sorry :( Sadly, having reached middle age, this is what I see and what I experience. For every one happy @seaborderr there are numerous opposites. On my own street, in an above middle class neighborhood, I would say marital success is running at 50% + or -. It seems to me if you can somehow make it to 60-ish, you might make it together for the duration. Maybe the need for a thrill becomes overwhelmed out of a desire not to die (or age) alone.

I know it sounds depressing -- sorry . . . it is depressing. My advice: make sure you and your life partner agree completely on the BIG TWO: Money and Sex. These seem to be the two areas in which compromise doesn't succeed. If she spends more than you are comfortable or you want more sex than she is comfortable, there is gonna be friction. If you have any qualms about either, well, like I said, that is what strippers and/or divorce are for.

I am stupid. I missed all the signs 20 years ago. While dating, we were having sex no more than once a week -- red flag number one. That was soon once a month and then once a quarter. My last action was Thanksgiving. Also, when we married, she had no retirement accounts or savings of any kind other than her checking account -- red flag number two. Now, I am trying to out-earn her spending and reserve spare cash for my PL hobby. Might not make it. Sigh . . .

@pensionking I see. Fortunately for me, she will be spending most of HER money, not mine. I wouldn't even split the bill on our house (because I will buy it under my name). In relation to this thread, if she's a stripper either she brings in bank or makes another venue for income because I will not spend ALL of my hard earned dollars just to impress her stingy self. There will be serious standards of money with me, so I'll make sure to keep your advice in mind there PK

There are many marriages where sex was great before and at the beginning, but over time deteriorated. One of my ATF's regulars swears that his wife said to him on their honeymoon, " I'm never putting that in my mouth again."
In my case my wife had a full hysterectomy at age 38 and her sex drive withered. After a few years of faking it she said that I should do what I need to do, just don't rub her nose in it. There's lots of different scenarios.