Since I'm on the subject of lap dances and have done a few already, I've been practicing and learning different techniques. This video in particular assisted me a lot:
What do you guys think? What makes a good lap dance? What do you particularly enjoy in a lap dance?
By the way..the guy in the video cracks me up every time I watch it! Lol
What makes a good lap dance? Plenty of two way full contact. Considering most clubs/dancers don't allow that then plenty of eye contact makes it very sensual. I also like it when a dancer breathes in my ear of course a dancer with wandering hands is always nice.
First off, dancing before she starts is wasting my time and money. I see her dance on the stage! I want contact. When a dancer waits for the current song to finish, just sitting on my lap and chatting is always nice. Gets me warmed up and she's letting me know I get the full songs when she starts the grind.
When she finally starts the grind, there's not nearly enough contact with his cock unless he's already hard and huge. Most older guys don't get hard until you start, so start with slow but firm contact. If you have large enough breasts, using them will get guys hard fast.
I like the reverse position she does but again, to my eye there's not nearly enough friction on his cock. She's wiggling her ass OVER his cock; we call that an air dance. She should be grinding into it. Then she dances AGAIN in front of him??
I would never dance with that girl a second time, and she doesn't get a tip from me either. She's too into herself and not pleasing the customer.
I agree with the eye contact and breathing close to a customer's ear--that definitely sparks a great reaction! I like to keep the customer engaged as much as possible with minimal contact, though gently caressing my butt and legs is a wonderful motivator. Let's me know you enjoy what you see, and you would like me to continue.
Only watched a few seconds of the video – but was enough to know it didn’t do it for me – too herky jerky common of young inexperienced girls.
For me the best LD is a sensual one (that one on the vid was not IMO) – for this PL; a LD should as closely as possible resemble making love in all aspects from seduction to how she touches you – slow and sensual is best for me – the girl on the video seemed like she was having damn spasms.
Keep your eye on the older/experienced dancers and IMO they often, though not always; do it better.
I'm actually glad you said that rockstar! I definitely agree with the girl being too into herself, I think it's a little silly to dance in front of him too. Slow, firm contact is great advice!
I coined the reverse technique from her, custies tend to enjoy that the most. I'm trying to learn how to grind while doing that in reverse--thankfully the customers that get VIPs don't mind me practicing on them.
Awesome input, thanks! Always looking for ways to improve.
IMO – just as a woman would know better than a man what turns on a woman - a man knows better than a woman what turns on a man – i.e. often it’s better to get a man’s opinion of what turs him on vs a woman’s/dancer’s opinion – i.e. ask your custies and that way you can increase your PL knowledge base.
I agree with Papi; the girl in the video is very inexperienced in actual lap dancing. It's like she practices in front of a mirror because she thinks it's all about how she looks. She's why I stay away from the newbies. They think they're the shits and in reality they are terrible. There are exceptions though; I met my last ATF 3 days after she started dancing and she was a natural. No rules broken, no extras (at the time) but boy did she grind! That was 5 years and many, many thousands of dollars ago!
Firm and slow. Slow and sensual.
Once again, thanks for the advice! I like the way she wiggles her butt, but to be honest, that seems to be the only thing she knows how to do. Not a fan of the jerky movement either, but I did take a bit of her slow walking into my own routine. I like crawling towards the customer too, then tentatively moving upwards and onto their lap.
I watch the other girls a lot too, though they often dance a bit similarly to the girl in the video. Very jerky and fast! It may be fun for some guys, but I don't want to destroy my stamina too quickly! There is one gorgeous blond who gives awesome lap dances (she gave me a generous preview), but she's quite aggressive.
In any case, practice makes perfect! Thanks again for the comments!
My #2 does the reverse and side moves, except she does them right! She uses the floor for leverage and pushes off it so her crotch is against my cock with incredible force. Even at my age she can make me cum that way (but I don't like to leave pants stains so other arrangements are necessary).
Alyssa,
As your TUSCL buddy; I would be willing to let you practice on me as much as you would like/need to – you know; just to help you out – I want to see you succeed.
:)
She sounds awesome rockstar! Definitely need to practice the reverse and side moves! I feel as though I have the frontal grinding down.
Aw, Papi! I'm flattered by your willingness to help this lil newb. I'm obliged to take you up on your offer! ;D
Oooh, I really enjoyed this video too. She really utilizes the slow and sensual movement!
She's doing an air dance too though, albeit a good one. WTF?
Alyssatangg, I hope you don't take these You Tubes too seriously. These girls are either not real strippers or don't make any money. I don't mean to imply you have to make guys cum, because you don't. But you have to at least get them stimulated, and frankly that blond is spending all his time and money doing nothing he can't see her do on stage for free.
Someone ought to do a You Tube of a REAL lap dance!
Mediocre dance thats too unemotional and violent.
Alyssa - The second video has more of what I prefer as an older customer. The second video displays many elements that are acceptable in many different clubs. That said - there are many customers that prefer the no tact, straight grind, physical style similar to the first video. You have to decide what your basic comfort level and approach is, with at least a second approach suited to your club and what becomes your customer base.
Papi and rockstar are correct. She dances like a lot of young dancers, way too fast. It should be slow and sensual.
As for dancing in front of the guy, I agree that we don't want that in an ordinary lap dance measured by song length. If we only have three minutes, it should all be full contact. However, in a VIP session, it can to be a erotic if the dancer strips naked in front of me for a couple of minutes before she starts the lap dance. My DS did this for me in the VIP at my request last night, and it was awesome.
The blonde does a better job in my view, although admittedly that may be partially because I like the girl. Still, she moves around way too much and too quickly. I'd get dizzy watching her go around in circles.
Here's a good way to think of it. To give a good lap dance, come as close as you can to acting like you are making love to the guy while you both still keep your bottoms on. The closer you come to that sort of experience, the more dances you will sell.
When she finally decided to start dancing on him, then it was halfway decent.
Alyssatanggg,
Yes, those are both real good videos, and I know they had to tone it down for youtube.
I am glad you are posting here on TUSCL. We need more women, as it creates the space for more sensible discussions.
This said, as much of a turn on as these two videos were, I would not be real excited about paying a dancer in an SC to do that. At least with the second dancer, she is wearing strapped on high heels, so they stay on.
The clubs where I am are all strictly no touching. So it is just looking, talking, flirting, and sometimes even talking dirty. But this can really get to a dancer. And the costs can be moderate.
When lap dancing started in San Francisco in the late 70's it meant sitting on laps. It didn't mean grinding. They had movie theater style seating, so there were arms on the chairs and they were close together. There were practical limits.
So how much two way contact was allowed varied. Usually tittie fondling was fine. Sometimes it went quite a ways beyond this, but sometimes not. And by agreement from the original group of dancers it was at $1 per minute. Even though they had to pay access fees, there were still making far more money than when they just had to stay on the stage. Also, when it is done in the front room, they don't have to ask permission, they just help themselves and begin. So they get their $1 per minute for the vast majority of each 60min hour.
All of this and the legal battles which surrounded it are extremely well chronicled in John Hubner's book, Bottom Feeders.
We have talked about this here, the origins of lap dancing and the legal issues, on this thread: tuscl.net
When lap dancing started, the dancer was basically being passive, submissive. And it was all done in the front room. In fact the key to the argument that it was legal was that it was being done in the front room.
Now as the battles were won, they changed tactics and went to booths and backroom, and the dancer being more active, and dominant. No of course this means that the cost goes up, because you have to agree to get up out of your seat and then pay a lumped sum, rather than just handing the girl money in smaller increments.
Some dancers believe that this increases their income. It doesn't. If it is done in the front room, then dancers can be extremely aggressive, and they can get money little by little, for 60 minutes out of every hour. And it is hard for the house to cut into this. They don't have to ask permission, they just do, and then indicate that they want a tip. I much enjoyed this underground circuit of table dancing which ran in some Mexican Bars for a while. It was tremendous fun, and dancers insisted that they made more money getting a dollar at a time than they did at the clubs which charged $20 for dances in a designated place. They got more money with $1 at a time because they were getting that for 60min out of each hour, and the house could not cut into it.
But when it is done in a booth or a backroom, the dancers spend their time trying to verbally sell dances, and the house takes a cut.
So the use of LD booths and lumped fees tends to increase the house cut, and to lower the overall mileage, because once you hand the girl the money, you are at her mercy. You just have to let her do her stuff.
What it shows in your videos is nice, but it is still a service the girl is performing. I have very little need for that sort of service. If I was trying to get my sexual gratification from that sort of service, then I would be a real pervert, because that is not real sex. Also, paying money for it would make me a chump.
Likewise the sorts of dances shown in the videos can be extended into the "extras" realm of HJ and BJ, and then even to FS. For myself I have never been a fan of this approach.
About the only reason I would pay for these sorts of booth LD's would be just if I wanted to flatter a dancer, to make an impression on her, as part of getting to know her and to be able to engage in civilian dating with her.
When I have partaken of this in San Francisco, I've turned the dynamic around by DATYing dancers. This does get to them because it is not what they are doing all day long, and they are viscerally moved by the experience, and this is reflected in the sorts of conversations which are possible with them afterwards. And likewise, since I have not shot my load, the sexual tension is still in the air, waiting to be resolved at some later time and in some other situation.
So I have been at odds with most of the TUSCL forum members as I don't really go along with the logic of booth lap dancing or "extras", and not even FS when it is done as along with this "extras" model.
As I see it the booths serve to limit the physical friendliness which can occur in the front room. And as I see it the best strip clubs are the type which have very few limits on front room physical friendliness. Sure, the girl can be extracting some sitting tips, and I would be offering them. And this money she doesn't have to cut with the house. She can also be extremely aggressive herself in making it get physical right from the start.
And then the two only retreat to private space, some sort of VIP Room or Cabana, when it is needed. Usually this would be when the customer's pants are going to come down. In a strip club the girl will often be naked anyway, so her privates can be acted upon in the front room.
I like escort grade GFE-FS, not 'extras' or even 'extras' styled FS.
One of the best ways to get this, is to get the girl DFKing with you. Often the best way to do this is not to discuss it, but just to do it.
What was written about many of the most extreme clubs in the country on blackstripclubs.net was that the girls help themselves to sitting on your lap and then they start nibbling on your ear and licking your neck and really give you no other choice but to start making out with them.
Tuscl members have affirmed this, and clarified that it is not limited to black clubs.
So here we have a testimonial to how the master clubber Jestrite50 does it: tuscl.net
As I see it, this is how it should be. Anything less than this, is just throwing money around just to impress the girl. If one is getting their sexual gratification from LD's, from 'extras', or even from 'extras' style FS, then that is sick.
The way Jestrite50 describes it is the way it should be done. If the girl will go along with this, then what happens with her in the Cabana, will be phenomenal for both parties.
Now where I live, Santa Clara County California, this is impossible in SC's because there are strict no touching rules.
In AMPs, I have often been able to make things like this happen, by manipulating the selection process by making window shopping visits to get the girl giddied up. I've been able to choreograph it so that she will submit to a makeout session as soon as we get into the room. It might be with us embracing each other in the center of the room, or by surprising her by backing her up against a wall, or by putting her on my lap, or by just letting her massage me some and then by talking to her, and then just by sitting up and kissing her.
This is not the norm in AMPs and it does not always work, but it has worked often enough. When it does, the FS which ensues is phenomenal.
But this would still be after having paid the house fee, usually $60 for the hour. It would not be in the front room.
In the SF RedBook AAMPs, the girls were coached to start DFKing as soon as the got the guy inside and got the front door shut, and before asking for the money. But there is no window shopping at AAMPs, and the women are often older.
An SC should be the ideal environment, except that in many places there are problems, and then also many guys just go along with the 'extras' concept and letting the girl sell them dances.
In San Francisco it should be possible, but it often is not because those places are set up as clip joints. That is they sell an open ended expensive fantasy. Nothing is actually ruled out, and almost anything is potentially possible. But what usually happens is not that much, it is all 'extras' style, and a great deal of money is spent and most of it goes to the house.
In much of the country though, for those who know how to do it the way Jestrite50 does, it is possible.
Here, I have started a thread to talk about exactly these sorts of issues, by looking at the Gold Standard, the TJ Hong Kong Bar: tuscl.net
Please feel free to jump in and offer your perspective on this Hong Kong Bar thread. And thank you for your own thread and for raising the sort of an issue you have.
SJG
Jefferson Airplane - Bless It's Pointed Little Head youtube.com
What do I like when getting a dance?
When I'm getting a dance, I like when the dancer faces me as much as possible. In other words, the cowgirl position.
Sadly, I've noticed that dancers avoid this as much as possible while they're giving a lap dance. And I understand why--because when you're face to face with the customer--it's much more personal. I strongly believe that dancers feel a lot more comfortable when their back is to the customer.
Vikings just ask for what you want. I tell most girls to please face me. If they won't or seem uncomfortable with it, no more dances. But most are fine with it. I think a lot do that cause they think guys want their ass. For me I want their breasts and I want to see them face to face
John Smith...yeah, I'll have to speak up.
So you think a lot do it because they think the guys want their ass, huh? Interesting. Never thought of it that way.
I'm an ass guy, but I'd much rather see her face to face. It's hard to explain why--but it just seems like the dancer is more interested if she's face to face for most of the dance---if that makes sense....you know what I mean?
Like someone said, I've seen you dance and I am paying to have one on one time with you. That said, at this point, location enters the equation. I am sure there are clubs that range from pure air dances (waste of money, IMHO), clothed to nude and all the way to nude full contact (contact of various degrees). Could be just touching away from the nasty bits all the way to FS. In any case, I would prefer the slow and sensual. At my age, a dancer giving me a beat down, well, just not pleasant. I sure would rough her up and only be sensual with her.
The ear nibbling or some heavy breathing, turn on. Also light kissing on the neck. Some pull my shirt up or open and some kisses there. Most any kiss is welcomed. Some dancers will talk a bit dirty, another turn on.
Now, if a dancer is going to allow more, I'd prefer it be in a more private area. Watching out for spies isn't fun.
If you ever come to Los Angeles, I'll teach you how to dance for girls (heh heh heh).
As long as you dont give guys a disease that makes there dick fall off your ok in my book. I sometimes get a lap dance but i never have sex cuz I dont want no disease. If I got some disease I wood be limke Dougster. That retard just trolls TUSCL all day cuz his dick fell off. I am so smart and he is just a retard.
I agree. Breasts in the face never get old, and a reverse grind done slowly and sensually is a great alternate position.
One more thing. NEVER apologize for being new. From that point on, your customer will think he's getting a second rate dance even if he's getting a great one. I don't think that will be a problem for you.
Last, from the tone of your posts it appears that you like girls more than guys. While a lot of guys wouldn't dislike you for that (one of my faves is too!) It can be a complete buzzkill to a PL with fantasies of scoring with a dancer. As you know, fantasies are everything in making a living dancing. If you are actually bi, you can admit and maybe even bring it up as guys will fantasize about you bring a friend to a three-way.
Yup, we PLs are a strange breed!
^ yeah – I’m one of those PLs that prefer for a dancer to tell me she likes dick and only dick – but her saying she’s bi or lesbian will not really affect me that much as long as she dances like she loves dick.
I think many a dancer does not like or feel comfortable w/ eye contact; kinda like kissing; it’s a bit too intimate (or maybe I’m as ugly in dark lighting as I am in regular lighting) – it could also be that her back to you is a better dancing position for her.
When I want a dancer to face me it’s usually so I can admire and play w/ her boobs – not necessarily to look at her in the face – I’m not a weirdo you know.
Like Papi (but with a 180 degree twist), if a dancer tells me she's not into women but dances all over me like she really is, then it's all good - its a win-win and not a deal breaker. And I'm also one of those PL's that the second a dancer starts yapping about her BF or baby daddy - I'm outta there. It completely kills any fem-wood that I have. Most smart dancers cater their convo's to the PL, and generally say stuff that they think that we wanna hear. The challenge for them is figuring out what exactly that is. The successful ones will bank.
This is my idea of a great lapdance starting at about the 3 minute mark
I like cowgirl, breathing in my ears, nibbling on my neck, boobs in my face
In the two lap dances videos posted, neither was shot in a strip club, which is a different environment and where money is involved. It's important to remember, that in a strip club songs may be as short as two and a half minutes. Three minutes and longer is a long song (where I've done most of my clubbing). It's a waste of the customer's money to do any of the "air dance introductions" that are shown in these videos. So, as a dancer you need to get in contact with the customer right away, and keep as much contact as you can during the short amount of period you have.
Also, I agree with the others, that facing the customer is important. Certainly as your first move. Those dancers that start facing away from the customer are conveying that they're not comfortable with that customer. It's like first meeting someone, and then he/she immediately turns away from you.
I'm not sure what a lap dance is any more. Mine seem to be no more than a grope session.
Yeah, that first one, the girl's performing for the camera, not for the guy. Sort of wonder if he started texting again after she got off his lap. Didn't get to see the second one; stupid Google password isn't working.
While I agree that some dancers probably prefer the reverse-cowgirl position when it comes to lapdancing so they don't have to make eye contact, so it's less personal, and all that, I always figured a big reason was so they could keep an eye on the surrounding traffic, scope out other PLs who are spending more money than the one she's currently with.
Bumped into a dancer I hadn't seen in probably five years last night. While I enjoyed her company and her dances in prior years, last night was a lot more fun, largely because she was in a lot more of a devil-may-care mood than I ever remember her being in. She pulled up my shirt, rubbed her hands and her breasts on my chest. (Apparently she enjoys the skin-to-skin contact a lot.) She was also planting a lot of kisses on my mouth, my cheeks, my ears, and my neck. And one of the biggest turn-ons for me was her talking so quietly, so close to my ear. It wasn't a lot of sexual stuff -- nuts, it was mostly a lot of normal, coffee conversation -- but she also has one of those smoky voices, sort of like Angie Harmon and Emma Stone, that get me going. Mind you, this is a club that has a pretty strict No Touching policy, and she's never been this...overt before. Not that I'm arguing, no; in fact, I was pleasantly surprised.
Another dancer I know in the Twin Cities, one of my ATFs actually, works at a club that also has a Hands Off policy. The girls are allowed to touch -- within reason -- but the guys aren't. She tends to kiss the ear a bit, sometimes even sticks her tongue in it. But the thing she probably does best is the dirty talk. We've gotten into some pretty raunchy back-and-forth, and it's always when she's up close, talking right into my ear. Have to admit, she also gives a damn good neck and shoulder massage, professional grade; it's sometimes a way she introduces herself.
Well, I didn't see my preference mentioned specifically, but it just goes to show different strokes for different folks. (Actually Papi, JS69, and Clubber touched on it). I actually prefer to be shown visually what the girl looks like first. So for at least the first half of song one I love for her to look in my eyes, smiling as she pleasures herself and as Dave Matthews sings "hike up your skirt a little more and show your world to me". Most men are very visual and the right amount of showing one's assets can greatly enhance the experience and in my case, desire for multiple dances. As others have mentioned, to me, a good lap dance should remind one of sensual sex. I prefer her to use the amount of contact that allows me to feel her different part - lips, clit etc. Usually this feels good to her too and when she is facing me, I can see that in her face.
My suggestion is to always start with lighter pressure and a variety of positions, then go back for more time to the ones the guy seems to prefer adding more pressure if it seems to be what he wants/needs.
Shadowcat wrote, "Mine seem to be no more than a grope session."
I like that. That is getting more to like what Lap Dancing used to be, when it was lap sitting and when it was done in the front room.
SJG
I'm with sc, grope, not dance. You can dance in a civilian club if you wish, but groping there might not go over so well. Might not go over well in a SC, but at least there it it routinely expected. :)
For me, if you think of a lap dance not as something you do TO me, but something you do WITH me, you'll do much better dances. Ya, okay, I know I'm just sitting there, but my biggest problem with that first video is, he could just be a prop. She's got her little lap dance routine, and it may not change regardless of whatever signals he's sending back to her. The movements are sexy but the dance is impersonal. Different guys like different kinds of dances, maybe really drunk guys like the impersonal dances as long as they're gropey, but you definitely want to read and pick up signals from most of your customers.
I agree fully. Shadowcat, once again, has introduced into a thread the key piece of information which opens it up. Lap Dancing used to mean a girl sitting on your lap. It really wasn't dancing at all. She was just, within some limits, offering herself to you, and in the front room.
Unfortunately as Lap Dancing got mainstreamed and moved from the front room into booths, the costs skyrocketed and, in my humble opinion, it turned into a clip joint racket.
If this grope session Shadowcat speaks of can become DFK w/ FIV, then that would be fantastic. But still better to do as much of it as possible in the front room, because then the interaction is less structured by fixed fees or using songs to keep time. How the money flows can just be worked out between you and the dancer. Also, front room money she should not need to cut with the house.
Once a dancer learns to do it this way, she can make even more money because she can be physically aggressive in the front room. Whereas with the booth approach she is limited to "wanna dance?". She depends upon getting a guy to agree to something costly, with him not really knowing what he will get. So taking a front room physical aggression approach, she can just climb on to your lap, without asking permission, and then start nibbling on your ear and licking your neck, and then indicating that she wants some money. Dancers experienced in free flowing environments are emphatic that they make more money when they can just initiate with the guy right were he is sitting, and not have to get any agreement up front.
And then of course, if you can let it develop into a nice makeout and groping session, then you know that if you then take the girl into the back room, what ensues will be phenomenal.
This is the potential which the strip club environment offers. But far too often it is wasted as these places use the booths to limit the quality of the action, and just to clip more money off of you. And the potential is wasted when customers ask dancers about things like extras and in general treat them as prostitutes, or even as vending machines.
Here, on this thead about how we reach Hong Kong Bar quality, I want address all the facets of this! tuscl.net
SJG
Alyssa asked, "What do you particularly enjoy in a lap dance?"
I particularly enjoy when I ejaculate inside her.
!
SJG
