Are there any similarities between the lifestyle of a Geisha and a US dancer?

18 comments

• chitownlawyer

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  18 years ago

  Customer, not customers. It appears that the swag associated with geisha-dom was pretty expensive, costing more money than could be generated during regular geisha activities. Although all customers but one got a non-sexual experience, most geisha had one well-heeled customer who would keep them, in exchange for "acting as a second wife", (say my sources materials..but some say that the consideration was "having sex" with the customer. An apparent ambiguity in the source material..."acting as a second wife" versus "having sex with"....come along now, which one was it?....) and would function as the sponsor's mistress, attending important family events, up to and including the sponsor's funeral. I have read some materials that said that Japanese prostitutes presented themselves to horny GIs in the post-WW2 era as "geisha girls", which was just a euphism for whore. The true geisha could be bought, but at a very high price, and on the basis of an exclusive contract. They were not available to visiting US/European types because there was no assurance of a long-term relationship (See Puccini, "Madam Butterfly.")
• FONDL

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  18 years ago

  Chitown, just wondering how your research is coming. Did the typical Geisha engage in sex with her customers or not?
• FONDL

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  18 years ago

  T, I think we are moving in that direction and that sort of thing will eventually become fairly common in some areas. My ATF is trying to do pretty much the same thing. She's not only a licensed massage therapist, she has qualified as a personal fitness trainer and is very into yoga - she gives private yoga lessons to some of her massage clients. She's very spiritual and health and fitness oriented, and is considering getting a degree in either nursing or food science. I regularly see another massage therapist who does similar things: she's a black belt martial arts instructor and a hypnotherapist too. She has a massage studio in her house and I've been trying to talk her into getting a hot tub so she can bathe me too. I see more and more people combining these kinds of wellness skills and interests into unique businesses. Let me know when you open yours, I'll be there.
• tropicalH2O

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  18 years ago

  FONDL, I'm only nude while giving a massage if the patron is a "boyfriend". Now, being a single woman, I'm allowed to have more than one boyfriend. I make more money in the club, but plan to transition out and concentrate on massage, holistic therapies including aromatherapy and herbal remedies. I'll also be working as a nurse after I complete my education this Spring. I'd like to find or create a job combining my eastern and western medicine. I think it would be great to have a retreat house where I could bathe people, massage them, hug and love them without getting into trouble with the law. -T
• FONDL

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  19 years ago

  Tropical, that sounds wonderful, I wish I could try it. Unfortunately you don't usually find stuff like that on the East Coast. I was talking recently to one of my regular massage therapists about stuff like this and she told me that it's pretty common in the West for both customer and therapist to be nude, but it's not at all common in the East, we're much more uptight about nudity. In fact in many eastern states that would be illegal. But that raises an interesting question. I've known several strippers who later went to school and became massage therapists. I wonder how common that is. Seems to me there are some similarities between the two jobs. Maybe it appeals to strippers because they've become comfortable with nudity and touching in a private one-on-one environment? The girl I see most often has mostly older male customers, much like a stripper might.
• tropicalH2O

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  19 years ago

  FONDL, I stayed in Japantown in San Francisco a few years ago with a boyfriend. The have a community bathing area (this sounds bad but isn't like a 'bath house'). There are set days for women and other days for men. A women soaks your body in a hot tub of water, scrubs your body vigorously, then massages you. I don't think that the women are nude though. When you're not getting scrubbed and rubbed you can relax in the big community pool. If you ever get the chance to experience 'Watsu', do it! Shiatsu is accupressure and watsu is shiatsu done in a body temperature, chlorine-free pool. I've been a massage therapist since 1994 and this is my favorite body work to receive. It's almost an 'out of the body experience' because the practitioner stretches your almost weighless arms and legs around in the pool and with the water being body temperature you lose proprioception of what you body is doing and you float mindlessly with your eyes closed. When I come out of a session it feels as though I'm walking 10 feet above the ground and I'm completely relaxed.-T
• FONDL

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  19 years ago

  Chitown, I think you are correct that a major element of the geisha experience is the intellectual non-physical part. I guess I always assumed that there was sex involved too but I really don't know. In any event I'd love to find something like I describeed - an outstanding professional massage which included being bathed first and a 100% massage given in the nude in a very spiritual atmosphere. If I could find that I'd give up on SC's forever.
• chandler

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  19 years ago

  Geishas seem to have similarities to stripper/sugar daddy relationships. Sex appears secondary of the surface, but it's always present in both their minds. There would be no relationship without the sugar daddy's desire to own her completely, so she knows she can never let him. By the way, I loved 'Memoirs of a Geisha' as an breathtakingly beautiful film and a good story, aside from any stripper associations. Another good movie from a few years ago with parallels from a different place and time was 'Dangerous Beauty', about courtesans in 16th century Venice.
• chitownlawyer

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  19 years ago

  No, the emphasis with geishas is that they are attractive young women well-versed in books, politics and the arts. They also have a traditional lyre-like instrument that they play while singing sentimental, nostaligic or satirical songs. There might be a little flirting, but nothing even close to contact. Some geisha are also prostitutes, but that is strictly on the off hours. A geisha who has sex with any of her clients is more likely to do so on a "kept" basis by a single, well-heeled client. But the overwhelming majority of geisha are "off limits" for sex.
• chitownlawyer

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  19 years ago

  In other words, for those of us who are married, spending time with a geisha is much like the non-sexual time you used to spend with your wife before kids entered the picture!
• FONDL

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  19 years ago

  Chitown, I was under the impression that their skills included massage, in fact I thought that's where the art of massage originated. Maybe I've been misled by movies, but I always though that a visit to a Geisha included a fine meal served by the girl, a bath with the girl bathing you, and a massage which included massaging 100% of your body. In any event, it's very unlike a dancer here, more like a very high-end escort.
• chitownlawyer

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  19 years ago

  FONDL, this may call for some original research, but I thought the geisha experience was strictly non-physical. Perhaps I'll get a chance to look into this over the holiday weekend.
• DandyDan

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  19 years ago

  I don't know, but I always think that belly dancers in the Middle East are similar. I always assume saloon girls in the Wild West had similarities to modern strippers as well.
• minnow

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  19 years ago

  Saw recent HBO Special on red-light districts in several prominent global cities. Geishas were briefly addressed. I surmised that sexual aspects were a secondary focus, being a deeply faceted conversationalist and multitalented entertainer (eg, being a good companion) were paramount. Thus, I would say that Geishas & US sc workers have a few things in common, but that they are different animals.
• Yoda

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  19 years ago

  I don't know much about the history of the Geisha or the Geisha house but If it's a room full of beautiful Asian women you can pretty much count me in!
• chandler

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  19 years ago

  The part with the G.I.s near the end of 'Memoirs of a Geisha', certainly bring out he contrasts between the respective cultures that produce geishas and Western style strip clubs.
• AbbieNormal

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  19 years ago

  No, virtually none other than they get paid to entertain men.
• FONDL

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  18 years ago

  Chitown, it sounds like there may have been variations from place to place and over time. I always though that a geisha was essentially the same as a courtesan except to the extent that customs differed between Asia and Europe. What about today? Do either still exist? I suspect that they both do but the nature of their jobs may have changed a bit. In earlier centuries there were very few wealthy people, today there are many, and that has probably had an impact. I'm under the impression that prostitution is still common in many Asian countries. Would any of the high-class girls be called geisha today? I'd also expect that Madame Butterfly has embellished a bit on the truth. For example, if I was wealthy and was supporting one of these ladies, why would I share her with other men, even if she only had sex with me? That doesn't make much sense. Anyway, thanks for the research.