Being a Stripper without Doing "Extras"

I have a question. You said "you don't even allow touching in the VIP".

Do the other dancers at your club not allow touching in the VIP too, or is it just you?

I find it hard to receive "one hell of a dance" as you put it, if I can't touch the dancer at least a little bit.

On jeez. Why I am I the first person to respond.

I don't go to the clubs looking for extras. Having said that, I'm no monk either. If they're offered, I'll accept. But don't look for me to visit your club. Touching in the VIP, or any dance, is an absolute pre-requisite. I would say it's now the industry standard. Touching tits, ass, even the vag is what's expected. Even kissing, which used to be the Holy Grail is getting pretty common if you know the dancer.

Feel free to do what you're comfortable with, but a good salesperson should know the market.

I'll accept whatever limits a dancer has, if I like her. My own line is orifices. I will not touch them and will not allow mine to be touched by a stripper in a club. I've expressed my rant on here many times about there being too much power placed on money when it comes to what a stripper will and will not do. The more you do the more money you get. Escorting is different, you are legally paying her for her time, not her services. So, she can make the money she wants, then do what she's comfortable with. Sometimes that's only a body massage, others she'll make you blush.

Anyhow, It's good to hear from you. I believe strip clubs should remain fantasy bars. I would like to see more emphasis placed on the stage shows as well. Not that I don't enjoy lap dances, but I really enjoy girls with a good stage show.

How long have you been in the business? Do you do private parties? Do you have trouble enforcing your limits there?

Can a math/science major even give a good lap dance? There's no logarithms for that.

I know lots of the top strippers don't do extra's then some have 1 guy on the side that may pay 1k or 2k a month for a couple private parties. Some have a set dollar figure. That only 3-5 customers are willing to pay. That might be 3-5k extra they need to pay their bills. You just haven't been desperate enough for money yet. The right situation with the right guy making the right offer might change your mind.

How old are you jessxxbby. Because you will find big money harder to come by as the customers grow tired of your repertoire. Why do you think a lot of girls tour. Such as Steleto? So they don't grow stale with a clubs patrons. IE being the new girl.

Okay, let me start out by saying stop telling me to "hate". I'm not hating on anybody, I'm just stating that strip clubs use to be behind glass windows where you couldn't even touch if you tried to paid. I stated my opinion, and if you don't like it then that's fine.

Last time I checked just because I'm going to school for Computer Science doesn't mean that I don't look good holiday.. But thanks for trying to lowball me. Also I'm not a new girl I actual was a waitress at the place that I work before I even started dancing & I'm 21.

I never have done private parties before and don't think I ever will. I'm not very comfortable with doing dancing outside of the club.

Also riglin, you are just plain rude. I work as a IT outside of the club right now and I am perfectly comfortable quitting dancing and working for the company I work for if I had too. You don't need to sit there just because you're a senior network engineer and try to talk down to me.

^ Why did you take down your pictures? You aren't really my type, but you aren't bad looking either.

I personally love the chicks who give blowjobs for an extra $20...lol.Honestly,why hate on chicks thats doing more than dancing then turn around and don't want to be hated on yourself.Also no one here need to be reminded not all strippers go the extra mile."Blueballs" is natures way of telling customers that.Other than that,if you provide boring dances and still make money in this economy then I say "kudos".Theres always a sucker born every minute especially in that part of MI

I do not sound like hate spray, lol honestly I love my job in the computer field, regardless of what your yahoo article says even though it only had two that involved IT. I probably wouldn't kill a kitten for any type of money, however I'm an animal lover haha.

"Last time I checked just because I'm going to school for Computer Science doesn't mean that I don't look good holiday.. But thanks for trying to lowball me."

Anytime, baby! Also, I wasn't joking on your looks. I was commenting on your moves. Dancing can't be calculated, it's intuitive. :)

"there are strippers out there that will only give you what "real strip clubs" are suppose to give you and that is a fantasy."

jessxxbby, I certainly support your right not to give extras, but I don't think you have the right to define what a "real strip club" is. In some clubs dancers only provide a stage show with no customer contact. In other clubs dancers give lap dances to customers in the main room or in VIP rooms. In still other clubs dancers provide (or so I've been told) "extras" that go beyond what is generally considered dancing. Customers have the right to decide what kind of club to frequent and what kind of dancer to spend their money on.

Is that Corgi.

Yes she is, best money I've ever spent.

Jess: You have every right to set your own limits and the customers have every right to purchase or refrain from purchasing the services that you offer. I've visited your club in Ypsilanti and decided to that the lap dances are so tame when compared to the Detroit clubs that I have never returned to the Ypsi Deja Vu. I know that there are some men who are perfectly happy with air dances but I suspect that there are many more men who would prefer a more hands on and satisfying lap dance experience. I don't know how good business is at the Ypsi Vu but if the customer flow is pretty slow, then you should realize that your competition in Detroit, probably no more the 20-30 miles from Ypsilanti, is providing a better service for the money.

If you're smart and dedicated enough to finish an IT degree, then you are surely smart enough to recognize the market pressures in the strip club area and the evolving standards for a good lap dance. Hustle up with that degree, you may need it to supplement your income from a shrinking market for air dances only.

oh and to holiday, I've been competitive dancing since I was 8, just so you know.

I'm not trying to turn this into a debate, I was just stating my opinion. I would never go to Detroit to dance, I'm not that into it. Every girl that I work with dances different, I don't air dance the whole time.

I have many friends that were strippers. All they did was go to the club strip,give dances. And go home at the end of the nite. Not alll strippers give extras

Maybe this isn't a "rant" but I think you are venting. That us ok.

I've never been to the Ypsilant Deja Vu but I have been to both Kalamazoo ands Lansing. They both are generally "no extras" clubs either. But I've watched the top earners go from making $800 to $1000 on weekend nights to maybe making $150. I think the reasons are simple. Because of the poor Michigan economy and Detroit's proximity to Windsor, The Detroit clubs have become pretty lenient.

I think most guys have discovered they can get more bang for their buck in Detroit. And since Ypsi is only about 40 miles from Detroit, I imagine it's pretty bad at your club too. So I'm guessing you've had a dry spell and had a bad night last night end needed to vent. You talk about how thongs used to be in strip clubs. Thing do change. I don't use a rotary dial phone anymore. I'm posting this from my iPhone.

Sure, you can certainly be the type of dancer you choose to be, but don't come onto a board like this expecting to get sympathy. Like I said, I don't go looking for extras, but for many on here, strip clubs are nothing more than a vehicle to meet up with girls who will do (cheap) OTC.

Shit, I've actually been able to supplement my SC allowance by taking my clothes off and having customers tip me to put them back on.

At Tycoons in Detroit last month I had a conversation with a waitress who remembered me from my days, years ago, as a regular. She was of the opinion that the "good old days" of just fantasy entertainment in SCs are gone. "Most of these girls are trashy and will do anything," she said. She felt sorry for dancers who must sink to the new low in conduct. I couldn't dispute her view.

Gosh, this should've been posted as a discussion topic.

You are in denial!

Hey jessxxbby. Im not sure of your motive for posting here. Obviously you're not a marketing major. There are more polite ways of saying "no" that will not offend potential customers, as there are quite a few on this board. I, too, have been to the Ypsi Vu. The first time was enjoyable enough that I returned when in the mood for the prettier girls that give a "fantasy," as you call it.

The second time I was at your club, I thought the club was high pressure. I was approached by every girl after her stage set and asked for a dance. Nobody bothered to sit down and talk to me. That's the first criterion I use to determine whether or not to get a dance with a girl. I prefer to sit and chat for a while first. As there were one or two other custys in the club at the time, it was a buyers market. A smart girl would have realized she could talk to a potential customer or chat with other dancers. All of the girls stood around and talked amongst themselves.

That makes the girls seem stuckup and standoffish. That is not an ideal mood setter for a "fantasy provider." Too bad, I had $300 in my pocket. I also don't pressume I can touch a girl. I allow a girl to set rules and initiate contact. It may determine how many dances I get. But I know that a girl can be erotic and fun without allowing me to touch her. Those girls usually know how to establish a connection prior to venturing to the VIP. It usually requires a bit of conversation however.

FYI, one of the girls standing around chatting with the other girls rather than customers goes by the stage name Hailey. I guess you missed a chance at some money taht nobody seemed to want.

Just a thought.

So I'm guessing you know who I am personally, nothing in my previous posts had anything to do with money. I don't see the point in your post as much as you don't see the point in my post besides to tell me that I'm a bad stripper. I will admit I am not the first girl in that club to jump into a customer to talk to them, there is nothing wrong with that. Why would you want a girl to sit and talk to you and then try to hustle you and not talk to you after that? That doesn't make any sense too me.

Also I would like to point out that I have regulars that come into the club, and probably if you did see "hailey" standing around it was because they were in the bathroom, or at the bar. Besides sitting down and chatting with customers I'm usually on my ballgame.

Jess:

The stripclub world is filled with sex, drugs, and alcohol. It is not the place for "good" girls. I assume that you dance topless. Already you are willing to do something that 95% of other girls won't do.

If the club is restrictive on what the girls can do, then perhaps you can continue to avoid touching. Personally, I don't require extras, but part of the "fantasy" for me is touching the dancer within limits. If you don't touch, then all you will get from me is 1 dance and no repeat business. "Extras" to me means sex, anal, oral, or vaginal. Kissing, touching, and caressing are not
"extras" in the clubs I patronize.

I hope you can graduate and go on to a successful career. Every dancer I know regrets ever starting dancing. Good luck.

I know a few ex-dancers. 3/5 of them went on to live successful lives either by marriage or on their own, the other two picked the wrong guy to settle down with.

Oh, and only one of them regretted dancing.

I should note, I avoid the train wrecks and crazy. 90% of Dancers will not get any money or attention from me.

Sorry Jess. I didn't mean to offend you. I wasn't trying to say you are a bad stripper. I was just a bit mystified by my experience at the Vu and the attitude you present yourself with here just seems to personify the Vu (elitist).

From my observations there are two different ways to make really good money as a stripper (i.e. - get me to spend money). Providing extras, which you profess not to do, or being really good at creating a fantasy (which you cite as your intentions). I think you are right, in that you don't have to provide FS in order to be erotic. Some times I actually prefer the usually hotter dancers that don't provide FS.

I was merely trying to suggest a way to enhance the fantasy that you are creating. The mind game isn't all in the VIP.

Good luck in your future endeavors. Be they as a dancer or IT specialist.

I think I'm the only regular strip club customer on here who doesn't go to strip clubs for "extras", either in or out of the club. I enjoy private dances in private rooms, and I will not get one without two way contact being part of the deal. I don't touch between the legs and I don't get "extras", but I insist on being allowed to touch almost everywhere else or else I will get a room with a different dancer. I don't go to the one club in the area where I live that has a policy where customers are allowed to touch, "anywhere you want except the chest, butt, and between the legs" because if I'm going to spend over $100 I'm going to get to touch the dancer.

I'm shocked that you get repeat customers if your personal rules are all contact has to be one way and customers aren't allowed to touch you, or are very limited in how much they can touch you and you don't grind on them very much, if at all. The strippers who I know outside of the strip clubs are all complaining to me that the economy is killing them. Men who used to get private rooms are getting lap dances and men who used to get lap dances are sitting at the stage and tipping. The strippers who are earning the most are all giving blow jobs or more in the private rooms and management is looking the other way while telling the dancers that if they get caught they'll get fired. This is not happening at one club, it's happening at a lot of clubs if not all of them. My prediction is that if the economy doesn't start to pick up "extras" will start being free instead of an extra $50 plus $50 to the bouncer to ignore the camera in the room for a blow job because business at strip clubs is going to keep slowing down and we all need to put food on our tables.

Jessxxbby
Touching in and of itself is not a problem; for instance: I often see dancer that I know take their customer's hand while going to the VIP area. It's the limits the dancer sets that are in contention here. I always ask what a dancer's limits are and I always abide by them. I do enjoy caresssing the dancers but do so in a way that stays within their limits and also draws compliments during the dance. Most dancers find it relaxing and stress relieving and a pleasant diversion from the grab and go approach.
If you meet people's wishes in a different way, good for you
If I like something that exceeds your limits, I'll respect your rules and patronize other dancers - no harm -no foul
And if I need some SQL work on a db I am struggling with and you are good at that, I'll consider your ability and possibly work with you.

Touching one aspect of SC service is only a problem when someone tries to sell their product as something other than it is.

Interesting discussion.

In my odd view, we are a very touch starved culture. Caring sincere human touch even if only for a few minutes, especially between and man and women with some mutual attraction and "connection" is a unsaid need in my view in our culture.

I have had about 20 years of strip club experiences with zero interest in drinks or staring at stage dancers. I have had zillions of dancers in my arms, cudding, having me massage their bodies (especially good breast massage - I'm taught Esalen massage for couples etc.)

Nothing for me is more meaningful for the moment than good conversation and a moment of quality touch caring for the moment as two human spirits connecting.

I have no interest in sexual extras, although accept some more sensual eroticness with those that enjoy sharing it.

Some of my ideas are shared at lovetouch.info (nothing to sell) and of course sexwork.com and libchrist.com.

I have many reviews in the Phoenix section here.

For about a decade I only went to the great Ontario clubs in Niagara Falls, Hamilton and Mississauga (Toronto airport city) when new restrictions in Phoenix passed in 1999 where even a fully clothed hug was illegal thanks to the Christian group that dictated the law and what is "best for us".

Now its a bit more open again.

Strip clubs with the right attitude could also serve us older perhaps lonely men that need some attractive female touch and have given up the dating game long ago.

Gee, Jess, I hope you feel better about yourself now. You define what strip clubs are "supposed" to be, and let everyone know you're not a slut, and prove it by letting us know you're in school for computers, which I suppose sluts aren't capable of.

So good. Mission accomplished. Anything else you want to make known?

Personally, I hate it when I run into girls like you in a club, and won't give them a penny. I like a girl who likes to make me feel good, and thankfully there are a lot of them around. And actually I have a lot more respect for a girl who likes making others feel good, rather than is there only for herself and her money.

Good luck.

I never go to SC expecting extras but if offered will definitely consider. most dancers don't hesitate to "touch or be touched" as they feel it is part of the experience. I will work within the limits that the dancer gives me. not a fan of bj or fs in the club but I see nothing wrong with titty play, hand job or a finger in the kitty.

Jess,
I commend you for your determination not to do extras and your insistence on shattering the stereotype of the drugged out whore who uses the strip club to pimp herself out. I also appreciate your major -- I know very basic CSS and it was a fucking pain to learn, so good luck!

I quit dancing for several reasons, but one of the main ones was because more and more girls are turning to extras. Yes, if you work very hard, you will make money even while staying clean, but you'll ge giving twice or even three times the effort as the coworker who gives a lazy handjob every time she gets a VIP dance.

As far as touching, just allow what you're tolerant of. Guys don't want to sit on their hands and will feel cheated if you give them dances like that. My dances were always full contact and I managed to make money AND stay clean (I gave a good grind and allowed touching everywhere but the danger zone)

But that may not be for you. My dances may have been considered crappy contact by some patrons and totally "extra" by others. In the end, though, it was what I felt comfortable with, and it will be the same for you. Delineate between the guys willing to be satisfied with mild, moderate touching, and the guys just wanting extras, and you'll be happier. But no one wants to sit on their hands; it ruins the intimacy of what was supposed to be a private moment.

Best of luck!

You seem not to offer what I'm looking for at a Club, hence I WOULDN'T engage you to "dance" for me. Good Luck.

Jess.......goodluck but u r not my kind of girl.....best wishes to ya !

Huh. While I don't agree with Jess' somewhat elitist attitude, I agree with her in spirit. Like it or not, dancing is a form of sex work, and it's counterproductive to look down on other women for what they chose to do to earn their money. (Which is not to say that I hate that other girls at my club do extras - if only because it means I have to hustle harder to earn MY money. If you want to do that kind of thing, take it OTC or be an escort. ) I'm a dancer as well, have been dancing for years in some rather high-contact areas. I've always been a clean dancer and while I do allow SOME contact, I don't let myself be groped. I understand I'm providing a service - people come to stripclubs because they are craving some kind of intimacy with a real, live girl, otherwise they'd be staying at home and jerking off in front of the computer. I totally get it.

I give good, sensual dances ... customers often tell me it's the best dance they've ever gotten. I give a bit of a moderate grind, a lot of teasing and eye contact, and maybe a little one-way contact if you are polite. At my club, the rules are that I don't allow customers to touch me at all during table dances. Even in the VIP, my own personal rules are to ask you to keep your hands limited to areas not covered by a bikini. The last customer who tried to grope me between the legs got slapped... just because you're rich enough to take me into VIP doesn't mean that I am willing to sell myself for that price. I've been offered thousands of dollars for sex - and never have I even been tempted to say yes.

For what it's worth, I'm graduate student in a hard science field and I am dancing to save up a little money. I'm also happily married. My husband and I live frugally and I make pretty decent money because I'm a good conversationalist, put a lot of effort into my stage show, and attractive enough to sell dances without having to be pushy. I don't intend on dancing forever, but I certainly believe in making hay while the sun shines... might as well make money off my looks while I still have them, right?

Jess, I respect what you are trying to do and I am sure it is frustrating when you lose customers to girls that perform extras. Just keep doing what you are doing and finish school. Your income will be limited but I am sure it beats making frappocino's at Starbucks. Your customers are the young, drunk guys that show up after midnight that you could hustle out of some cash. The veteran strip club guy will probably want more for his money. Good luck.

Getting off topic (perhaps) but something rfrookie said made me wonder.

Sometimes I don't understand a woman's mind. (SN: maybe that's why I'm single?). I have had dancers tell me they wouldn't have sex with a customer even for thousands of dollars. One dancer told it would have to be 50k. What's the big deal? Unless you're married, you're gonna, at some point, go to the bar, meet some dude, get drunk and have sex for free. So why not take the cash now.

I think rationalizing stripping or a one night stand is easier than waking up a prostitute.

This is one of the better dialogues I've seen on the discussion board. One of the wonderful things about the United States of America is that it 'works'. Even the fact that some people dispute that is in fact proof that it does. I can't say it for a fact, but I think Jefferson said that your rights end at my nose. In other words, as long as what you are doing doesn't interfere with me then I have the respect I need. If a girl feels that her image as a dancer is within her actions and she enjoys doing it and makes a living, then we're golden. I have no problem with Jess, or Hailey, dancing the vu in Ypsi. I would venture to guess that the reason they have these rules there has a lot to do with keeping the city off their backs. They are right downtown and keep a low profile. That's what lets them stay in business. Anyway, go forth and be happy!

@ motorhead - I don't know how it is for other people, but while I'm totally comfortable with the idea of other people seeing me nude (hell, it's just a human body, like any other you might see in this club or on the internet) I'm not comfortable with sharing something as intimate as sex with someone, especially not for money. I do realize that many other women might say the same about other people seeing them naked, but it's not something that bothers me, so I can see why prostitution wouldn't bother other women. As a feminist, I support the right for each woman to make the choice for themselves. To me, it's actually anti-feminist to denigrate the choices that other women make with the thought that you know better than they do.

I guess I'm kind of a romantic, in a sense... sex is something I'd like to share with my SO and ONLY my SO. That is why I don't do extras, ever. There's no price to be put on it; it just isn't going to happen. There's a famous joke attributed to Winston Churchill:

At a dinner party one night, a drunk Churchill asked an attractive woman whether she would sleep with him for a million pounds. “Maybe,” the woman said coyly. “Would you sleep with me for one pound?” Churchill then asked. “Of course not, what kind of woman do you think I am?” the woman responded indignantly. “Madam, we’ve already established what kind of woman you are,” said Churchill, “now we’re just negotiating the price.”

Now, while I'm only took a basic course in economics back in undergrad, I set my VIP prices $50 higher than the other girls in the club exactly BECAUSE I know what expectations tend to be in the VIP, and I know very well that I often do not live up to those expectations. I'm taking advantage of the price-elasticity of demand to narrow down my clientele... I'm actually quite upfront with customers on my limits in VIP, and while the other girls at the club tell me I need to market myself better in order to make money, I'm satisfied with the money I make. (That, and the customers who are willing to spend the money on me in VIP tend to be discerning types who appreciate me for more than the ability to give a good grind.)

Price elasticity of demand. You just became my favorite stripper EVER.

Micro economics, that's pretty awesome. There is a market for a sexy woman that could have a decent conversation. I am sure you have many regulars that sit with you for a couple hours in VIP just for the connection. Beautiful, naked girl laying in your arms laughing at stupid jokes is what brings a lot of guys to the club.

Okay girls, keep repeating:

"I am not a slut, I am not a slut..."

A guy can touch me here, but not there. I'll dance between his legs if he pays me enough, and it's okay if he rubs me and cums in his pants, as long as he doesn't touch my special place. Because I'm a romantic.

Churchill was right. We've already discovered what kind of girl you are. Now we're only negotiating the specifics.

The hypcrisy is mind boggling. And you have a husband? Good luck with that.

To Jess and rfcookie,
Thanks for writing. I like hearing the strippers' points of view. I think some of the guys were a bit harsh with you, so I hope you'll keep contributing to the discussions. Interesting thread....

rfcookie. You win my award for the feminist of the year with this comment: "As a feminist, I support the right for each woman to make the choice for themselves. To me, it's actually anti-feminist to denigrate the choices that other women make with the thought that you know better than they do."

Far too many of the so called "feminists" that I know are more than willing to impose their narrow values on other women. Some of these radical feminist values range from "all men are evil" to "you can't enjoy sex or allow your body to be appreciated for its sexual attributes, otherwise you're being exploited as a sex object and that is terrible."

I like your brand of feminism much better-- it is empowering and respectful of individual rights. Unfortunately, my feminist of the year award comes with no monetary prizes attached, just a compliment.

I was impressed once when a dancer used the term "buyer's remorse". I said not many dancers have had an intro Marketing class. But I am REALLY impressed with the price elasticity of demand.

Since you're are hard science grad student you must know some calculus. Most intro Econ courses don't use calculus. Take a class in Internediste Micro where calculus is used and things make a lot more sense. At least they did for me.

@jerikson - I don't think you are really understanding me. I don't care about the title of "slut", and honestly, there are many women who would embrace it with pride. I am simply giving my point of view that everyone has different limits, and should be allowed to set them wherever THEY want, within reasonable expectations. By "reasonable expectations" I mean a certain level of courtesy to other dancers. If I'm working at a low contact club and a few girls let customers stick a finger in the kitty, it makes hustling harder for ALL of us because expectations have been raised. I'm really not in this industry to work any harder than necessary for my money! That is why I say, "if you want to do that kind of thing, take it OTC or be an escort."

I am simply saying that I set my own limits, and I would never change them for the sake of money. Otherwise it's just a slippery slope argument. I think nothing of giving a regular a hug when I see him, or kissing a particularly great customer on the cheek when he's leaving. Is that slutty? Maybe to radical Muslims or to you, but by my standards, it's pretty darn tame... I don't think a guy necessarily has to see me naked to want to go rub one out in the bathroom, but I'm pretty clear-eyed that what I do is a form of sex work and the kind of thoughts that accompany that.

My husband knows what I do and he's very comfortable with it. He knows that if he ever became uncomfortable with my job, I would not hesitate to quit -- I'm not long for this job anyway, once I graduate from school. I would argue our marriage is better than most because I listen to unhappy husbands all night long, and I make an effort not to make the same mistakes I often hear about. I respect him, he respects me, and he certainly doesn't call me a "slut" or try to guilt me about it...

@motorhead - I never had trouble understanding microecon on a qualitative level, but I suspect I would not enjoy upper level courses if the math gets very hairy! I managed to get through Calculus 2, but never made it to multivariable. (I didn't think I needed it, though my graduate research does use a lot of ordinary differential equations.) My best friend is a finance/math/business triple major with aspirations of becoming a Wall Street quant, and I certainly don't envy his courseload from what I hear.

rfcookie rocks :)

=1, f_d.

Cogent, clear comments by rfcookie. This was especially on the money: "I would argue our marriage is better than most because I listen to unhappy husbands all night long, and I make an effort not to make the same mistakes I often hear about."

Amen, sister.

Damn keyboard. +1 fetish_dancer.

If prostitution were regulated, we would all get a better quality product at a more reasonable price. Strip clubs have become whorehouses because the market demands it. If a stripper is honest about it going in, then at least you know what you are paying for. I would never pay for a VIP air dance. If this chick can get idiots to do that, great. But for me, I would pass. just move on to the next whore. They all have their price.

If I wasn't afraid of getting mugged in the parking lot, I'd take a strap of $100s to clubs and test this 'everyone's a whore' theory out. I believe a few girls that say they won't fuck for money, but I never put their feet to the fire.

I still say if you want sex, go get a hooker. The Internet has made it smarter and safer than ever. Leave the strip clubs to guys that just want some entertainment and a level of intimacy the wife will allow.

But I have also learned you guys are set in your ways and I'm arguing to a brick wall, so whatever.

When I go to any person offering goods and services for a fee, I do so because I need the product, and I can't do it myself/ don't have the time/or some other reason. But the point is, I am there because of my own need. I am defined by my motivation.
When I go to a SC, I am going for some level of interaction with women. If I am defined by that motivation, WHO IS THE SLUT?
I have met women at SCs that I didn't admire because of their attitudes or because of how they treated their customers. But they were only one segment of a profession that offers great variety.
It is just wrong to paint dancers with one brush - i.e. slut. But if you do, remember what that says about yourself.

I think rfcookie and the other dancer posting here are totally contradicting themselves. And they are posting their thoughts here because subconciously they've been tempted to go the "extra" route, and are trying aweful hard to make themselves believe that they'll never cross their boundaries. Good luck with that, if a dancer is truly comfortable with what she's doing, she won't find the need to yell it out to make sure everybody knows it.

Jessxxbby,

I think the term "extras" has changed over the years. I'm willing to bet at least some of what you do would probably have been considered extras ten years ago, even if the guy is sitting on his hands. Used to be the only thing you got was an air dance, if anything off stage was allowed at all (showing my age here). But I see where you are coming from and I admire your principles and standards. I agree that a lot of guys, myself included, expect extras to be on the menu whether they are accepted or not. No one here could deny that the dancer is the one who draws the final line.

Guys who are regulars and go to just a few local clubs know the rules and the limits of each dancer, and if they go over the line they have no one to blame but themselves for whatever price they pay. I go to clubs all over the country and sometimes it takes a while to find out what the limits are. Some clubs and dancers tow the line, others push the boundaries but are suspicious of strangers. So be patient with us neanderthals as you educate us as to your standards.

For every dancer there is a customer, and for every customer there is a dancer. I'm not in a position to judge them or call them sluts, prudes, pathetic losers, or anything else. They have their own reasons for doing what they do and it's none of my business. Live and let live.

Any limit a dancer sets is her business, and I will honor it. But I won't pay for a tease.

@jayman - I don't see how there's any contradiction? While Jess and I have different boundaries, we're also different people. I allow as much contact as I am comfortable with, and that's it. I don't feel pressure to do extras because I am satisfied with the amount of money I make, but I can understand why a dancer may feel pressured to do extras if they are in a financial bind. I don't need to offer extras to make my money, because quite honestly, I'm one of the most attractive women at my club and I make consistent money almost every night. My customers are HAPPY to give me money! I also don't blow my money on stupid shit - not that all dancers do, but it's a common stereotype. I am simply explaining why I, myself, don't do extras, and don't appreciate it when customers assume I do, and that it's just a matter of how much. As I once ranted to a handsy customer in VIP - "I'm too pretty to have to do that shit! AND I TOLD YOU NOT TO TOUCH ME THERE!"

@SometimeVoyager - I've been reading up on the history of stripping and striptease, and I find it pretty interesting how clubs used to be show bars, and slowly contact became more and more accepted, and now, almost mandatory. I love performing and I love being on stage - I take a lot of pride in my stage show, actually! I go to classes for pole dance, even. Like I said, I deliberately set myself apart from the other girls because the kind of clientele I want to attract is NOT the kind of clientele coming in looking for "release", if you know what I mean.

I do wish there were clubs around me that were little/no contact and that dancers could still make money just on stage dances. It's interesting that few people have realized that stripping "wages" haven't grown with inflation. People used to tip a dollar on stage back in the '70s; they still tip a dollar now! These days, I'm lucky to make $50 a night on stage tips, and we all know that ends up going to house fees... any take home money I make, I have to make off of giving table dances and VIP. So I give good dances and I make my money, but I still stick to my own boundaries.

Interesting discussion. I think the majority of guys on here respect any dancer's right to set whatever boundaries they choose. By the same token, the male customer (who is the one paying, by the way) will set his boundaries as to what level of contact he will accept. As several posts have noted, what is allowed in strip clubs today is a far cry from when I started going too many years ago. Most clubs used to allow zero physical contact with the dancers and as much as a pat on the leg would usually get you ejected. For whatever reason, some contact is allowed today in even the strictest of clubs. I would say most clubs today allow at least minor intimate contact in the lap dance area or VIP. Accordingly, most customers now expect some level of contact when they enter a strip club. While it is certainly possible for a very cute "no touch" girl with a good personality to make money in this environment I think that is, by far, the exception.
In my own case, like many on this site, I am not going to spend my money in an "air dance" club. There are still many guys who will go to these clubs only for the eye candy. Although I have no evidence to support it, I suspect that many of those guys will gravitate to the "touch" clubs once they have experienced it. I spent last Sunday afternoon in the highest contact club in Atlanta. When my TUSCL buddy and I arrived at 2pm the club was almost full. I suspect some of the lower contact clubs were empty, if even open, at this time on a Sunday. So I have to conclude that the higher the contact allowed, the larger the crowds will be. That being said, I still respect your right to dance in a way that you are comfortable with. And I do appreciate your input on his site. Try to accept some of the comments as constructive criticism.

This thread is about to reach zombie status

Jess,

I have been to a lot of clubs over a lot of years. In my experience there are 2 kinds of dancers.

Women whose personal value system allows them to be guilt free about sexual expression and all manner of consensual sexual activities. They are not seeing sexuality as a negative or something to feel guilty about and can sometimes enjoy or at least feel fairly neutral about what they are doing...like any other kind of entertainer. Form some this translates to extras for some not this isn't about what they choose to include in what they offer.

Women with "traditional" values who feel sex is dirty and for example would actually use a word like "slut" as if it means anything.

The former tend to do fine over time as dancers doing whatever it is they choose to do, sharing themselves within limits defined by their own comfort.

The latter feel like they are selling their souls, they secretly (and sometimes not so secretly) come to despise their "slimy" customers even just dancing topless. The latter tend to turn to drugs and alcohol to make it so they can fake it and to make the job bearable. Sometimes they do extras while drinking...they are already hating themselves for dancing so why not make some more money. Sometimes they don't do extras and maybe just give really lame dances and grasp to some ludicrous sense of superiority over the other dancers because they do "less".

You sound like the latter. If so, I predict that this job will burn you out fast. You don't sound suited to it and should stop.

@snowtime - Which club are you talking about? I'm an Atlanta girl myself.

@rfcookie-Follies on Buford Hwy.

@rfcookie - I was the one with snowtime. I would almost bet you work at Cheetah.

Are there dancers that just give dances to no touching? Sure. Are they working at Adelitas in Tiujuana? Of course not.

So don't get santimonious about how you won't give extras. You work in a market where it is feasible to get away without giving extras. If you worked in a market that expected extras you would likely find yourself not able to cover your stage fee or tipouts...or the management would drop you as a low-earner. You can make up for some of not giving extras with great looks and personality, but there will be girls with great looks, personality, AND extras.

I love the guys who say all strippers are sluts and whores regardless of limits, and that limits can be broken. What about decency? I think pushing a girl's limits or bribing her to perform is indecent, where you might think a dancer who does golden showers and scat is indecent, and that person may think a dancer who has sex with animals is indecent. And going the other way, someone in a club may think I'm indecent for touching a dancer, and another thinks strip clubs all together are indecent, and yet that person may be looked upon for showing skin as indecent by a devote religious follower.

It's all fluid and money may not change a persons standards. Would you eat the Worlds Fattest Pussy for $1,00,000?

@rfcookie,

Others here comment on your references to economics, calculus, etc. I was more impressed by your Churchill story. One of my favourite Churchill anecdotes was his exchange with Lady Astor:

Lady Astor (to Churchill), "If you were my husband, I would put poison in your coffee."

Churchill (in reply), "Madame, if you were my wife, I would gladly drink it!"

Honestly. I don't care about touching as long as I'm being touched. I don't go to clubs for a fantasy. I usually go to chill, attantion, talking, music, and to be touched. If you don't touch me with your hands (not necessarily in sexual areas) then your dance sucks. I could've got the same action by tipping you on stage.

I'm not saying all strippers are sluts and whores, I'm saying virtually all women are, they just won't admit it. At some point with just about every woman, sex for money comes into the picture in one form or another. Whether it's refusing to date a guy who doesn't have enough money, to dancing for men for money, to walking the streets, and on and on. So many women are so freakin hypocritical and sanctimonious about it, when in fact they're all ready and willing to provide some sort of sexual satisfaction in return for money. So at least be honest and admit that you're a stripper, that you're a slut, and, like I said, don't give a rats ass about what everyone thinks, but be the best slut you can possibly be. And don't hide behind all this BS about individual limits, and think it protects your "specialness" and "romantic-ness".

The oft-repeated contention from dancers that "extras dancers" should not be allowed to do their thing regardless of club leniency because it "makes it more difficult for the non-extras dancers to make money" is pitiful. "Steve Jobs shouldn't have made the iPod because it made my Walkman less appealing, and I might have to work at making a new product"...If the Sony CEO said that to his board, they'd replace him.

You have the absolute and inherent right to not do extras and to establish whatever limit you choose, and you have the right to have your limits honored respectfully...but you have no right to expect payment for what people do not choose to buy from you, even if the only reason they made that choice is that another offered more.

^^^ Well said, how.

For me personally, a $20 lap dance (even with hard grinding) is a waste of money without touching. My tastes may be different than some. I don't care if I am brought to orgasm. But I crave the feel of soft, young flesh. Her back, her legs, her arms. The softness of her breasts, the moisture between her legs. Sucking on her nipples. That is what I pay for in a dance. I don't EVER pressure her to go beyond her limits. No need to. There are plenty of dances who provide what I want. If dancers like Jess choose not be a provider, that's alright, but don't claim to provide "one hell of a dance".

Being an atlanta man myself, this is how I operate. If im in the mood to watch cute girls get naked I go to cheetah and walk out of there spending a grand total of $40. Now if im in the mood for some lapdances I go to follies and walk out of there spending a grand total of $250 or $300. Now if you're a dancer where would you like to work?

@snowtime, shadowcat - I'm actually an Oasis girl! I'm thinking about going to Cheetah, but the main thing keeping me back is that Cheetah doesn't have poles. I know there are extras going on in Oasis, but I have managed to do pretty well without having to. Hell, I even have a regular who takes me into VIP almost every week just because I'm so delightful. I've been thinking of switching to Pink Pony; I heard they have better poles and stage tips seem better there. Have any recommendations about any places I should try? I'm actually relatively new to the area myself. I prefer making my money off stage tips rather than dances, but this is Atlanta after all...

I talked to a dancer at Follies a couple of weeks ago. She had just quit at Cheetah because they were so strict that she couldn't make any money.

Cheetah only attracts out of towners that are there for conventions & business. The only regulars are wannabe "in crowders".

@rfcookie- I think, based on your preferences, you would do much better at Cheetah. I have not been there in many years, but from what I hear there is almost no touching outside of VIP. As Shadowcat notes, it attracts most of the affluent convention business and I suspect most dancers do very well there, but I would also suspect a lot of competition. As most of the guys are out of towners, you will not need to depend on regulars. Despite your comment of a regular who enjoys VIP dances with you, I suspect most "local club" (i.e. Follies, Oasis,etc.) dancers would not develop much of a "regulars" following without offering some degree of contact.
During my vidit at Follies I had 4 very high contact lap dances from a dancer who had just come over from Oasis that week. She was as attractive as any girl I have seen in a club, a solid 9, and very personable. I didn't ask her why she left Oasis but I suspect that club is being hurt by Follies which is only a few miles down Buford Highyway. I also don't know how much she made at Oasis but she did very well at Follies during the 5 hours I was there. She was very popular on stage and with lap dances. I plan to go back this weekend and give her some more of my money.

@rfcookie - And I am going with him. LOL.

@how: "The oft-repeated contention from dancers that "extras dancers" should not be allowed to do their thing regardless of club leniency because it "makes it more difficult for the non-extras dancers to make money" is pitiful. "Steve Jobs shouldn't have made the iPod because it made my Walkman less appealing, and I might have to work at making a new product"...If the Sony CEO said that to his board, they'd replace him.

You have the absolute and inherent right to not do extras and to establish whatever limit you choose, and you have the right to have your limits honored respectfully...but you have no right to expect payment for what people do not choose to buy from you, even if the only reason they made that choice is that another offered more."

Cha-ching! Give that man a cigar!

@snowtime, shadowcat - Almost wish you guys would stop by Oasis and chat with me a bit. No pressure to buy any of my med-low contact dances, of course, but I AM curious to see how I rank on your scale of 1-10.

@rfcookie- Speaking for myself and Shadowcat, thanks for the invitation. I have never been to Oasis but go past it frequently. We will talk this weekend and try to arrange a trip when you are dancing.

snowtime & shadowcat--how about a TUSCL Convention w/rfcookie at Oasis?!

Jess-

Nice contact is a big part of fantasy and intimacy. Absolutely agreed, we should not expect a blowjob for $20. But then again....you should not ask us to pay $600 an hour to sit admiring you lovingly from 3 feet away with angel thoughts of us walking on a beach at sunset (still from 3 feet away), you're not that great kid, and we're not that pathetic.

Welcome Jessxxbby. I haven't posted in a while but I am a long time poster here under different names. I believe you were just not happy with the stereotype some guys have of strippers and just ranting which I have no problem with. I have done that a few times myself for one reason or another.

I do remember a club I used to visit many years ago that was strictly no contact. I heard the girls had to audition to work there and they had a lot of 9's and 10's working there. I would go just to watch and have a few beers. At that time they only had table dances and they were all air dances. I did get a few but I preferred just watching the girls while others bought the dances nearby. I would visit that club and then sometimes club hop over to a high contact club. The high contact club didn't have nearly as much eye candy so I had a choice of what I wanted. Now I have no club where a bunch of 9's and 10's work at. Maybe it took less effort to look like a 9 or 10 when I was in my 20's.

Of course some guys might like it if a club had only 9's or 10's working in it and as soon as you walked in and sat down, you got a complimentary BJ on the house to warm you up or cool you down. Then maybe add some free drinks on the house. But then you might wake up afterwards and realize it was all a dream because there is no club like that in real life. :)


I believe Jess was upset at the stereotype some guys have of strippers and just ranting.

Ok, I loosely define rants. Some rants can be angry and some can be just wanting to express a feeling about something.

@yndy-Shadocat has organized several TUSCL conventions at his favorite club, PP in Columbia. I am sure he would do the same in Atlanta if the interest were there. However, I can assure you that he would schedule it at Follies. Perhaps there could be a conference session at Oasis during the evening hours since Follies seems to change for the worse after 8pm.

Belle_Nile, you need to work for a week in a Detroit club.

@ Belle_Nile why would it be more against the law to touch the dancer in the VIP room, as compared to elsewhere?

@Belle_Nile- schmooze your manager, grab his crotch at least once a day and tip him even though he claims he's not able to accept tips. Shove it down his pants anyway and tell him no one needs to know. I promise you, after that, he will turn his head and you will not get fired. I'm totally kidding...but not really. :) I just gave you a tame version.


No one take advice from me on how to get managers in your pocket. It goes against the morality of this thread.

Oh and I should add that this tactic goes for bouncer too. Its actually gotten to the point where bouncers are seeing me and immediately changing course while shielding their crotches. You think they're gonna bother me in VIP? They don't even look in my booth anymore.

Sure riled a lotta people up, Jess and rfcookie! Kudos!

I'm pretty sure strip clubs are one of the finest examples of capitalism in this country.
But I won't go into my ridic political analogies.

This thread has been really fun to read :)

I'd like to say this because I disagree with Jess post to an extent. I am a dancer also and I totally get the fact that you aren't a whore because there is a difference BUT you CANT be a prude either. Guys come to strip clubs to have a fantasy with a beautiful girl. Most guys aren't going to pay an exorbitant amount to go to a VIP just for a no contact lap dance. They can either go to the lap dance room or stay on the floor for the minimal contact. You don't have to have fun all the time but for the mean time you are suppose to make it seem like its lees about you and more about the client. Giving these "No- Touching" restrictions etc will ensure you will not have repeat business. Not many guys are going to want to keep taking you to the private room if you are going to have a set of rules for him.

Plus I'm pretty sure guys know that all the dancers aren't whores and even so alot of guys like slutty girls.

I believe this is the first article or discussion to get to 100 comments.

Nothing to say, really. Just wanted to make the thread longer. Sheesh.

Stiletto25
Do you ever swing through the RM West?

Jessxxbby things go based on the actual economical situation. You think you gonna make huge money as an Engineer?. I know a lot that are begging for jobs nowadays. I am not saying not to keep on studying. But, you clearly what kind of job you do, and what you are exposed to. So if you don't like it. Maybe you should do something else.

Wow Stiletto, you make me want to apply for a bouncer spot at your club. I'll only bother the hell out of you every now and then.

Snowtime posted a very good comment I hope everyone here reads it. IrishLad's comment also brings up a very good point. I think the point is that the lap dance business is, well... a business. Very simple supply and demand. A perfect 10 who provides "extras" (the supply) in VIP will be in very high demand. If the supply is low, she will make a killing. A 5 who is very hands-off is not in demand, and thus will not make it long as a dancer.

Why has the industry changed?? Easy again... We are in a very difficult financial time. The number of people who go the SC just to "hang out" is declining due to cost. Many customers now go for a purpose. There is a much bigger pool of dancers (many just trying to make a living) which means more competition. It's easy for a customer to find what they want if another dancer will not provide it. And most importantly there's better communication. We can go on TUSCL and find out where to go get what we what. It's easy to know where and who are going to go the extra mile.

I'm sure that Jess and Rf are probably very attractive (8+). There is still a demand for more visual, low contact lappers. Am I'm sure you guys are good at providing those. But just read the reviews... TUSCL members are serious about this hobby. Aka WE SPEND ALOT OF TIME AND MONEY IN THE SC! Most, not all, but most of us enjoy contact. It is about the fantasy - and the more contact, the more "real" the fantasy is perceived. The closer we get to "reality" the more money we will spend. I guess in economic terms, the demand for low contact dances just isn't as high.

**But don't get me wrong, I hope you don't change a thing. Don't change your values just to make an extra buck. Like IrishLad says, you probably look at sex and dancing different than an "extras" dancer. The SC's NEED people like you because there are still people who look for what you give them. But please do not be discouraged by dancers who do provide extras. In fact, encourage them to do what they do. If it wasn't for them alot of customers would not even walk through the door to eventually meet you. They actually help you out by bringing business to the club and providing a contrast in dancing styles.

WE GO TO SC's BECAUSE WE WANT TO EXPERIENCE A FANTASY COME TRUE. SOME OF US LOOK FOR A "RELEASE," BUT WE ARE NOT SURE IF WE ARE GONNA GET IT... THE UNCERTAINTY IS WHAT MAKES IT EXCITING. If it was just about "release" we would just get an escort. The contrast in looks and styles is what makes it fun. Good luck to all!!

I once posted in here a rant about strippers who perform extras since I'm also a very clean dancer. I'm happy to know I'm not the only one keeps it classy by being a clean dancer. I'm also an IT, just like the OP, but yes, I always come back to dancing because the IT sector is not that lucrative as it seems, but at least I have a career that I can use as a back up in case I get injured or sick.

Can the OP please post a pic, so I can know who to avoid?

I can respect if you want to be "clean" and "classy," so long as you're clear about that with your customers and they can pick who's and what's best for them. It's just that you're offering an inferior product, so you're essentially a scammer if you're advertising some kind of amazing dance but covering up that there will be little touching. I personally would avoid like the plague.

@jessxxbby: As a guy who's been programming as a hobbyist and professional since 1976, I'm going to pass on the best piece of advice I ever got about being a programmer. Don't call yourself a programmer. By all means, use programming in order to do your job, but your *real* job is to lower costs and/or increase revenue for whoever you're working for at the time. Programming should be the *way* you do your job, not the job itself.

@riglin: That advice applies to you as well.

Programmers and network engineers are a dime a dozen, replaceable cogs in a machine that will run just as well with jessxxbby or riglin in those roles as it will with someone less expensive, like an offshore resource. People who use programming and network engineering to save or make money, and *understand* what they are doing and how to actually make those things happen, are not so easily found or replaced.

Extremely wise counsel, georg. People think a corporation is all about making widgets, selling meals, providing special services, or whatever. Not so. It is all about.........MAKING MONEY.

Since almost all the comments on here are negative. I want to say this since I haven't been keeping up with the post. I wrote this for one of my college courses in sociology. My teacher knows that I'm a dancer and asked if I would write a paper on strip clubs and its definition to today's society.

I made it very clear that in my first comment back, that this rant was not about making money, what my other job was, or the fact that I was spreading "hate" spray to other girls that do extras. I just stated my opinion, and was wondering what other opinions were.

I'm glad that there are some people out there that we are just strippers not prostitutes. If you don't agree with me that's completely fine, but I would like to thank every single one of you to helping me with my paper, and getting a 4.0 in the class.

Also, some of you guys are just plain rude.. Why would you treat anyone like this.. Some of these comments completely disgust me. I'm not "prude" as some would say. I respect my body, and don't think that just because some guy is offering me 20$ more extra to touch is worth it. This whole article was for a class, granted you guys didn't know that at first just thought I was some stripper ranted out on a bad night at work. But no girl should have to downgrade her life to that sorta level, ever. Blowjobs for 50 dollars extra, that's awful in my opinion. If you are one of those guys good for you, make sure you arn't carrying around something nasty before doing it again.

Lastly, my professor didn't believe me when I talked to her about it that the market was getting that bad that girl were pretty much selling themselves in strip clubs rather than the streets, so this is where this article started. Most of you made what my article was about.. How bad it has actually gotten, considering what MOST people would consider strip clubs WAY long ago were behind glass with a curtain. Now guys expect much more than that.

Anyways no matter what your opinion was, thank you for your input, no hard feelings. However for those of you who low-balled me throughout this, screw you. & thank you for getting me to 4.0 the class.

Also for those who agree with me, thank you for showing me that there are still girls & guys for that matter that agree with me :)

HAVE A GOOD HOLIDAY EVERYONE & STAY SAFE! :D

Im curious < i understand you don't do extras, and I respect that, do you turn in your co-workers that choose to do extras? In other words if everyone is willing to let you have the freedom to not do extras, do you allow them the freedom to do extras? Or do you have a double standard, meaning if you don't do extras no one can, and if they do I will turn them in. I am from Texas and I have seen both types of clubs.

In all honestly my club is pretty clean all I have ever heard of his girls letting guys touch, nothing more & if something more happens they usually get fired. But no I don't rat out others girls as in my previous post. They can do what they want, I'm not the one sleeping at night with that on my mind.

JXB
Congratulations on the 4.0
You have good holiday too

ps If you take graduate studies will this website explode?

115 and counting....shame on me for another comment

I am a bit perplexed by your statement: "Also, some of you guys are just plain rude"

Do you mean you in this thread, or just in general? I don't think calling you "elitist", as some have done, is by no means rude. I think most of the comments have been more than fair. The general consensus seems to be we absolutely respect your right to set your own limits, but don't expect the majority the of us to purchase a dance. The post made by HOW said it wonderfully. How is this being rude?

If you mean we are being rude to dancers - I think you have some misconception of what goes on in places like Detroit. It may seem like it from some of the comments on TUSCL (LOL) but we're not going into the VIP room and forcing ourselves upon the dancers. We respect the limits that are set. Here is the way it goes down: either a service is negotiated for a price beforehand or the dancer willingly initiates the action. How is this rude?

Having said that, I find the topic of your paper interesting. I know it would never happen, but I would love to see you post this paper as an article. I am in complete agreement that the nature of strip clubs has seen a dramatic change over the past few years. I know some would argue that "extras" have always been available, but they were more difficult to obtain and was not as obvious as it is now. Perhaps so. I've been around clubs for almost 30 years and it wasn't until recently that I've experienced certain things. Maybe I just don't have "the game" some others have.

Anyway, I'm glad there are no hard feelings. And much luck.

I have something positive to say. Stay in school and keep your eye on the ball becuase career strippers end up with their eyes on my balls. No one said all strippers fuck for a living.

I like all the experts that assume they know what an 'amazing dance' is.

Jess - I can understand your need to rant but I think your in a state of denial about the reality of the situation. With the weak economy, I am sure it is tough for non extras girls.

Early on in the Hobby, I was into getting just lapdances and captivated by the thrill of getting to feel the girl. Later on as I evolved I started seeing dancers otc and then doing them itc at extras clubs here in Houston. While I have spent a five figure sum on girls this year, I doubt I have spent even $200 on lap dances. Currently I am rotating two x strippers I have known a couple of years otc motel with POP averaging $120. I remember spending $300 - $500 a week on vists to SC just on dances and a fellow VIP member (he was sorta the dean of the VIP members) telling me "You should be spending that on pussy. Find one who will meet you otc" Not long after I did and then stepped up to VIP at an extras club doing them itc.

Getting a dance with you Jess, I can respect you dont do extras, but I would want to feel you, suck on your tits, and possibly make you an offer for otc. Money to women is like sex to men and Strippers have a hard time resisting the allure of shopping money and different dick.

Hi Jess, (we share a common name) If you check my reviews you can see I go to a lot of clubs. In fact I only review some of the clubs I go to. I'm in a different club almost every night and sometimes spend way too much money in the clubs. Most of the girls I know and I know quite a few, don't give extras. Most want to stay out of trouble and keep their jobs. I know a few girls that have a No Touch policy. At least they dont let you touch the boobs, the kitty, or the butt. (They do let you touch other areas like their legs and back.)Those girls have a good routine and a good grind however and I get dances from them even though I cant touch. To me its the grind that is the most important. If the girl knows how and where to grind I dont care if I can touch or not.

This thread has been pretty thoroughly chewed-up at this point, so I'm going back to the OP and point out a few things that I think are relevant.

jessxxbby is only comfortable in “real strip clubs”, where there is no touching, and the entire experience is based on a fantasy “that we know we can’t get in real life”. She’s good with all that IMO, as there are a few low value clubs around where she will be happy. Even the law allows some touching in most locales, so this “real strip club” thing is a fantasy that her inner-stripper has generated to justify her poorly crafted business model as a sex worker.

She implies that giving $20 blow jobs makes a stripper a “slut”. I agree totally. Undercutting the market by charging less than half the going rate for a service could indeed brand you with a derogatory name.

I also agree with her that it *does* take a “certain kind of person” to get a degree in Programming - having the ability to concentrate on infinitely boring detail for very long periods of time with a litre of Pepsi as your only nourishment. During the background check for that job, she can proudly say “god, no” when they get to that question about whether she swallowed when giving blow jobs to put herself through school.

Rant. Of course it is. She’s pissed off because she got into a business that is changing and she’s being left in the dust economically by not becoming a part-time p4p'er. She thought all she had to do was get up on stage and show off her tits, and she would be financially independent. Narcissism clouded her market research.

I agree that she and her no-touch pals probably give "one hell of a dance"...in "real" fantasy clubs where they make losers pay $20(non-fantasy) to sit on their hands in a cafe chair. Hope graduation is soon!

Just like to point out the likelihood that the "for my class assignment" explanation is bogus. 4.0 is a grade point average (GPA), not a grade for any class. That is, one cannot make a 4.0 for any particular class.

I don't know how long it's been since you attended any college classes, but up to ten years ago, I've seen several classes grade on the 4 pt scale.

I wondered the same thing, how.

Doc. I guess I learned something today. I never heard of that either.

Between the long-term downward trend in real wages for most workers and service providers, and a long and brutal recession with not much improvement in sight, a whole lot of people across the employment spectrum - from IT specialists to strippers to freakin’ librarians and elementary school teachers (believe me, I know) - are under immense pressure at work right now to do things and submit to changes that they might not have submitted to otherwise, just to forestall losing their jobs or seeing any more of their wages or income cut.

I try not to judge the ones who say, “I’ll do what I need to do,” and I also try not to judge the ones who say, “Fuck no, that’s not for me.”

I don't know what college you attended but at the end of EVERY semester they give you your grade point average for the classes, and then average them out. I have nothing to prove to you. I got what I wanted, and that was opinions.

Some of you guys are downright unreal. Seeeeeeeee ya <3

Hey jessxxbby, before you leave can I get a quick handy??

So you logged on to "this site" possibly paid a membership to write this hmmm...For What Im Curious

"this is not a rant by any means"

no, you're wrong, that was most certainly a rant. I, to an extent can understand why you feel the way you do. To me dancers that give out "extras" are the difference between strippers and whores. Guys who actively seek out extras are the difference between patrons and PLs. On another note girls that give out extras are not only the difference between strippers and whores but the difference between strippers and PLs. I dont go to a club to get extras and I would be a little worried if i was offered any (i have been). I just don't touch unless I am really comfortable and the girl at least APPEARS to be ok with it. But I don't like girls that are absolute prudes either. Kind of a conundrum

I didn't pay shit, if you make an article you get free VIP membership for 4 weeks.. Can you not read, its posted all over this website.

Jess - relax, you're cruising with a 4.0, couple of days left on your free membership here, holidays coming, life is good

Jessxxbby; YOU GO GIRL. I often enjoy just the regular ol dance with a nice lady and no pressure. You can dance for me anytime! And remember; stay in school. Good luck and see you in Inkster.

Oh free membership forgot about that, but anyway still doesn't soothe my curiosity as to why you went through all this knowing the atmosphere of this site. A bit daft perhaps...

I'm not going to stripclubs to get any extras, but if there is a good feeling with the dancer, if we chat for a long time, and only if she suggest to go further, I think many males would hardly refuse.
I mean there are rules and I respect them, but it's concerning a physical attraction between a man and a woman, and I think that some men would be embarassed to say "no, thank you".

I've refused twice, once with a hand on my cock. I didn't give a fuck about their feelings, they initiated it and were predators. However, I also slept with a stripper that may have lied about all kinds of shit, but I believed her. Then after she left, I found some DVDs and $340 from my nightstand missing. I was pissed at first, then hurt, and thought had she said she needed or even wanted money I would have given it to that girl. So yeah, the right girl can get anyone to pay for it.

Yes there is a 4pt scale per classes "how." Sorry, but I have to bust you on that. There is a 4pt scale for classes, the quarter/semester, and an overall gpa. You can't calculate gpa any other way without each class having a gpa. I don't go to clubs for extras. I only knew it happened at clubs after I joined this site. I've considered it, but honestly the idea grosses me out. Mainly, because in my mind, when I go to a club, everything that I do, I have to be comfortable about the idea of possibly 1000's of other guys already doing the same thing to the girl and possibly 20 or so of those guys germs and fluids lingering on or in that girl. This site has actually made me content with what I get when I go to clubs. The site has helped me to find EXACTLY what I want and am looking for in clubs more frequently. Though it is nice to read juicy stories with you guys who are more risky than me. It's always a culture shock and the fact that some of them I can believe are real makes it a good read. I know that I would NEVER do extras beyond non-genital and non-mouth skin to skin contact.

Jess you go girl

Shit ! This is a long ass thread !

Acutally Larry I wasn't aware at all the assholes at this site. But I learned my lesson :)

Class (as in college) or no class, you have made it clear that unbeknownst to you, you are unconsciously puritanical/conservative about sexuality as compared to most dancers.

I've been around strip clubs for more than 15 years and I am telling you right now it is not for you. I'm not saying you're not hot enough, or charming enough or won't make enough money. I'm saying it may eat at you in ways you might not even notice and it will probably not end well if you're not done with it soon. Just a prediction make without a shred of malice. I've seen this first hand many times. There are lots of girls that can merrily strip (and often extra to varying degrees) merrily and with a light heart...you don't sound remotely like one of them. Good luck.

jess,

This is mrs m00t. What I think riglin was trying to say is that the IT field is full of must do extras if one wants to be employed. I know. I am married to a SR network engineer who designs the networks for CME, several major trading firms and one major name advertising company. Believe me, his pager goes off frequently and many times BOTH of us feel like we are getting screwed when it does. :-) You might want to consider TWO different fields.

As far as touching in VIP - if you allow NO touching at all, I can tell you as a wife, that we would not ever get to VIP. I can sit at a table and talk to you for $20 if that is all you are interested in. I don't think very many men's fantasies involve no touching. We are not an extras seeking couple. That being said, we don't think hands on the butt, touching a breast, etc is considered "extras". Extras to us are BJ, HJ, etc.

That being said, a good customer will always ask what a dancer's rules are - VIP area or not - and once articulated, respect them. If a customer does not like the dancer's rules, then they always have the option of not tipping, not getting any more dances and chosing another dancer.

I know this is an old thread but I just joined and wanted to comment. I respect the OP's rights to set whatever rules she wants. But I sure as hell wouldn't pay $20 for that. I was at the Ypsi Vu for my brother's bachelor party a few months ago and had a dance like that. I paid up after one song and left the VIP room. Later, I got a much better dance in which there was some touching, though no pussy or anything. But after going to a couple Detroit-area clubs recently, the bar has been set for me. If I want to spend a lot of money while doing nothing more than looking at an attractive woman from 3 ft. away, I'll take my wife out for a nice dinner. At the SC, I like a girl who is actually capable of intelligent conversation AND who allows full contact (i.e. fingering, etc.) during a dance. Otherwise, there are much, much, much better uses for my money.

rfcookie , you're my kind of dancer. I will run with one dancer following the rules rather than 100 willing to allow me as a manager to go to jail. Gentlemen's Clubs and prostitutes should not be used in the same breath. I wonder how much better my club would be if I used the time I spend policing private dances for something else. Your a Clean managers dream rf wish there were more of you.

steve_ny commented December 7, 2011: "Jess - relax, you're cruising with a 4.0, couple of days left on your free membership here, holidays coming..."

Not if he gets a VIP dance from Jess, apparently!

BAH-DUM-BUMP!