discussion comment
5 years ago
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NeverEnuf"That's why it's so great: People have to pay attention to you because you're naked," says dancer Breauna with a laugh.
I'll let you in on a little secret. The girls are not cute there, the vibe is definitely not nice, and even the people who live closer don't go back
discussion comment
5 years ago
Strippers as a group can have all the things we complain about -- low emotional IQ being the most clearly nearly-universal thread, but poor judgement, inability to keep commitments, and others -- but still be awesome people who we enjoy being with. As has been pointed out, it's a bit more fun to vent about the negative, but their positives can be awesome, and I genuinely like every one of my CFs and ATFs, to the point that I've kept in touch with several, years after they "retired".
An interesting fact: if you go onto SA discussion forums, you will find many experienced SDs refuse to even consider the (very many) strippers on SA trying to be SBs. Why is that? Well, the SDs have exactly the same experience with strippers that we do here, literally the exact the same characteristics; but most SDs are looking for something different than a PL going on an OTC, so are less likely to accept it. This isn't just a tuscl thing, experiences on other SC forums are the same, and beyond into the SA forums, and beyond that, anywhere guys who have dated strippers talk.
None of which negates the fact that they're often fun, interesting, charismatic, sexy, charming, and full of life.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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steeldog65I swear, it's just shrinkage due the cold
-->"Wow, this thread may inspire me to make a whole another post on handling your fundamentals and fishing female interest."
That would be much appreciated. If it has sections on smacking her up when she needs it, getting her hooked on drugs in order to control her, and managing her, that would be aces!
discussion comment
5 years ago
Strippers are my fave providers in the sex industry, and OTC with strippers my favorite overall experience. Perhaps more fun to talk about their foibles, sure.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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steeldog65I swear, it's just shrinkage due the cold
Yeah, to elaborate: if "no show" means she cancels on you, sometime up to and including just right before the meeting, or alternatively, you texted her to confirm and not hearing back, well, it's hard to believe anyone is OTCing with any regularity and not getting those behaviors occasionally, unless you're timing it for right after her shift. If you're OTCing, you're dealing with this, to some extent, that's the price to pay for OTCing (and doing SA M&Gs is no better) versus escorts. Since I don't do the post-shift OTC, if I nix'ed every stripper who either canceled or ghosted, I wouldn't be doing a lot of OTCs. New girls get less slack than proven girls, obviously.
The "confirm beforehand, but still don't show up and don't bother to text to tell me" is the one-and-done behavior. Although I haven't run into a stripper who has done that in many years, thankfully.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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steeldog65I swear, it's just shrinkage due the cold
Well, depends what you mean by no show. Typically I shoot to confirm with her by text, both the day before, and a few hours before our OTC. If she cancels during one of those confirmations, I'll give her another chance. If she confirms a couple of hours before, and then no-text no shows? That's one and done. Exact same policy for SA also.
discussion comment
5 years ago
25, if you were talking to me: Fewer shifts, fewer hours per shift, and lower pay per hour of shift all add up to easy availability of OTC, with possibly even some downward pressure on prices, all of which is happening, although too soon for me to say definitively whether the price pressure is really happening. But I already don't have trouble with OTC, especially given that I've been spending time on SA so I'm not dependent on the SCs for this type of action... I'd really prefer to have bigger shifts with prettier girls at the SC for my ITC fun, and that's what's noticeably been sacrificed.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I like the delusional "perfectly enacted" excuse also ... it's a nice strategy, just justify every failure as less than perfect enactment, rather than a problem with the political theory underpinning it. The poor outcomes are someone else's fault. Meanwhile, a vulnerable sector that is near and dear to my heart -- strippers -- are facing real pain over it.
discussion comment
5 years ago
-->"You're a fucking idiot for saying since the law isn't perfectly enacted by the private sector that it should be canned."
I should note, I never said this. I just stated the actual consequences of the law thus far, and expressed empathy with the strippers whose livelihoods have been hurt because of it.
discussion comment
5 years ago
IceyLoco's hoes and bitches who he manages say you're a misogynist too. So take that!
discussion comment
5 years ago
-->"Also, there is no lower take home pay. The fees are the same as always, except they're itemized on a paycheck stub now."
Wrong. I itemized these out before; it is lower, the girls are getting less money out of what they make under the new structure, on top of the fact that they're paying full taxes against it (side question: do you ever get embarrassed at being wrong constantly?). So lower take home per shift based on fee structure and limit to number of hours per shift. And second, lower take home due to much more limited hours per week. It is a fact, again, that the girls are taking home less, which is why they're leaving the business and traveling out of state. No amount of "moron" and "idiot" can make up for you not recognizing reality. Moreover, this isn't just Deja Vu -- there may be other clubs who haven't changed IC status, but there are others who have, with the same results.
Plain and simple, SJW utopia isn't working out so well, but you actually have to talk to the girls to know that. Which, as a troll persona, you don't do and haven't done, not in CA, not anywhere else
discussion comment
5 years ago
lol... the subsequent lower take-home and enforced 32-hour weekly limit has made OTC at least as available as ever... duh. Another fact acquired first-hand, that inconveniently doesn't match SJW utopia, along with the current unhappiness of the girls, having had something thrust upon them they never wanted. The girls are miserable and worse off, the SJWs are in denial. The lawyers like it though, shocking :)
discussion comment
5 years ago
lol ... now now, don't get all sassy with me just because I point out that reality doesn't match the fantasy world you've built up. I'm not remotely right wing in any sense. In fact, in this case, I'm not political at all; it's more about recognizing reality, and the real harm this has done to the girls (or "bitches" and "hoes" as you variously call them). And I do so by citing facts and first-hand observations, not bleating and repeating baseless descriptions of the fantasy world. But good try :)
discussion comment
5 years ago
-->"@nicespice and that's just on the main Iceyloco account. Who knows how many comments total with the trapbaby and other profiles combined. "
And, despite the good points from SirLapdancealot, that's one of the reasons I continue to suspect this is an old troll resurrected. First, because those troll personas came in seeming to completely understand tuscl -- hotbuttons, how to get a reaction, etc. They'd been here before. Second, because tuscl's most toxic troll, someone whose entire life had been trolling tuscl, had recently left. Studies on internet trolls are pretty consistent in how miserable, antisocial, and psychologically dependent on internet trolling people like this are -- it's delusional to think that troll isn't still here. I also think it's plausible to imitate an angry StripperWeb SJW type without too much difficulty; more difficult to emulate a real street persona convincingly, and fittingly, those personas have disappeared.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Icey's just making up a troll argument, but hopefully any lurkers realize that the "Icey" persona has made up a fantasy world of SJW utopoia (or more likely, troll utopia), and with no actual contact with the strippers who this is affecting, simply makes up even more delusional explanations every time it's pointed out that reality doesn't match the fantasy world. In the real world, stripper lawsuits are exactly as Rick says -- exit strategies to elicit a payout, not because the girls actually wanted to be employees. The current state of affairs -- deja vu and beyond -- was entirely predictable. Yes, employee status has hurt the girls, yes, the girls have left in droves, yes it's worse for customers, and no the girls don't want employee status; no, this isn't just an DV thing as all clubs I've heard about are doing similar things, and no, going in even deeper isn't going to make things better lol ... I like the girls and want them to do well considering how tough the work is; no amount of repeating "this is what the girls want" changes the fact that this is exactly what the girls don't want, and all you need to do is talk to, well, any of them, to see why. Only a troll or a rabid SJW could possibly fantasize otherwise, which should be obvious to everyone?
Here's another article: https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/new-rules-for-contractors-have-unexpected-consequences-for-the-citys-strip-clubs/
Some choice quotes:
"Dancers said morale has plummeted at clubs across The City"
"The drastic pay cuts and availability of cheap flights have pushed some dancers to seek work outside of San Francisco, traveling as far as Las Vegas and Reno one or two nights a week while continuing to live in The City."
Etc. Mostly, an echo of what I've been saying -- but I have actual contact with real strippers, and am not a troll just stirring the pot, so what do I know? :)
discussion comment
5 years ago
As a reminder of some of the changes, at least in the Deja Vu clubs:
- Strippers cant' work more than 32 hours per week: because if they work more than that, other expensive benefits kick in
- Strippers can't work overtime or do doubles: because then there's overtime pay (I'm a little less sure if I'm remembering this one right)
- Stricter scheduling and rules, rather than a little more loosey goosey as before -- they're employees now
- Disadvantageous salary structure versus the previous structure (I documented this in the earlier thread) -- they make less. This is probably the #1 concern of the girls.
- Forced 30 minute break. This might sound good, but girls have to take breaks while sitting with customers & regulars, and regularly lose out on the payoff.
- Fewer girls on shift. Sometimes this works out to their advantage. But in this area, it's resulted in commensurately smaller crowds, and often turns into a negative. I personally am SCing less often because I often can't find a girl I like among the 5 or so girls on shift. Have heard from girls and managers that the crowds have gotten smaller as the shift sizes have, and managers are under more pressure than ever to bring revenue back up
discussion comment
5 years ago
I should add -- I know firsthand the employee status has happened to all Deja Vu clubs. As far as others, my impression is, many have gone to employee status. According to the article, some clubs have not, but I haven't personally been in a club that hasn't changed over yet or heard firsthand reports of one (maybe some clubs in the south?)
discussion comment
5 years ago
shadowcat-->"All of those law suits have come back to bite them in the ass."
In this particular case, I think the originating lawsuit had nothing to do with strippers, they just got caught in the crossfire as the court defined who is or isn't an IC
Papi-->"This is confusing - why aren't clubs able to still hire them as ICs - is it the clubs are unable or unwilling to treat them ad straight ICs?"
This is a (disastrous, for strippers) court ruling that defined who is or isn't an IC. The summary here is, based on the court ruling -- no, the clubs are not able to hire them as ICs. If there were an option, the overwhelming majority of girls would choose to stay as ICs. Every strip club in CA has had to move to an employment model
I'd documented in a previous thread the changes as I saw them, and heard about them. In fact, I just went on a meet and greet with a girl on SA who turned out to be an ex-stripper... she'd thought about stripping again but still has stripper friends and heard about all the changes, and decided to stick with a regular job plus being an SB. It's been terrible for the girls throughout the state; I can tell you that in my area, it's not been good for customers either. This time we can't blame it on the clubs, since this was thrust upon them.
discussion comment
6 years ago
I don't do AMPs, totally uninterested. But do enjoy an FBSM now and then; or at least used to. I think prices are around $240-$260 for FBSM in this area now, pretty crazy.
discussion comment
6 years ago
As long as there's any business relationship, it's hard to be totally sure. But 10 OTCs and $600 total spent in the club is enough to say you're well past even favored-regular status.
Tuscl tends to oversimply things into "it's this or that", when in fact with actual people there can be a mix of feelings and motivations (some of them conflicting). Sirlapdancealot's BFWB is perfectly plausible.
I'd say that right now, you're getting very special treatment, but if her intentions towards you were PURELY romantic, she likely wouldn't want you in club, so there's some business perspective mixed in.
discussion comment
6 years ago
I'm still unsure whether Icey is really an angry StripperWeb type, or a troll who is trying to make it seem that way. He tried the pimp persona, realized it was beyond him and gave it up, and because the troll *is* a PL, realized he could pull off this persona better. In fact, if we all had to enter a betting pool, I'd take the odds and bet on "old troll, still trolling us" rather than actual angry SW millennial. Starting with the fact that no angry SW millennial would have been willing to construct that repulsive pimp character, and ending with the fact that Icey isn't really 100% convincing even in the current persona
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->" I had a dayshift dancer quote me $1200 for OTC, and then got defensive when I suggested that her price was way above market. “You get what you pay for” was her indignant response."
Just as a side note, when I do get quoted high prices first, I've found that the girls who ask high prices respond VERY poorly to "your price is way above market" type arguments. These girls know they're above market, believe they deserve it, and think you're a peasant for not agreeing. A basic response where my demeanor is basically that I could see why she could get that kind of price, hell I could imagine her getting double, but unfortunately my budget is $X, is the approach I've been most successful with. Stroke her ego, give her some reason to think she's being charitable and doing you a solid just because you're not a dick. Again, that could be a limitation of my own negotiating skill, maybe some guys can argue her down with market analysis or negging, but the few times I tried that, it ended so poorly that I don't do it that way.
discussion comment
6 years ago
I had a threesome just the other night. There were a couple of no shows, but I still had a good time
discussion comment
6 years ago
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Papi_ChuloMiami, FL (or the nearest big-booty club)
I might have a stronger opinion on this if I ran into it often. As it is, there's only one club here where that happens. I don't go there often, and there's not a whole lot of customers, so I just shrugged and figured this was the club culture, and when in Rome and all that. I didn't mind that girls would dance for 3 songs and then come by for a dollar. But, this is a club I rarely visit, and the only club in the area that does this; I'd probably not be so casual about it if I were dealing with Papi's clubs.
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"@Subraman, between what you've told us about alcohol costs and now the OTC conditions, clubbing in San Fran sounds positively awful. I club about once every couple of years in LA and it's bad there too, but obviously my pain is brief and I can just hold out until I'm airlifted back to saner places."
I could summarize it as: it is horrible -- a Dejavupocalypse, no exaggeration. We've gone from arguably among the best major SC cities 20 years ago, to maybe the absolute worst now. Unfortunately for all concerned, all indications are that Deja Vu views their monopoly here as a roaring success, so nothing is likely to change.
For the most part, you need to be a PL, and really wire the system up, to have fun. I do enjoy myself a good deal, but getting beneficial treatment from managers/bouncers, knowing when the shifts are slow and the drinks are on happy hour, and moving to OTC are all mandatory if you want a more PL-y rather than an all-expensive-sizzle-no-steak experience.