discussion comment
5 years ago
SirLap: ya, in the clubs I go to, the girls don't collect their tips until after their set is over anyway, so "the same time she takes the tip" and "after her set is done and she comes by to thank me" are same thing. I don't bother tipping in g-strings, I don't see the point and don't get any pleasure out of it, so just drop my singles on the stage in front of me
discussion comment
5 years ago
Someone here -- GoVikings maybe? -- gave interesting, real-life insight into the psychology behind making it rain. That psychology applies to literally none of the guys here, I reckon. But the experience rain makers are after is completely different than the experience a PL is after, and there's absolutely no reason for PLs to adopt it. For us, $5/song tip is all that's needed to get her attention enough to come by after her song and say thanks, and that's when we can invite her back to the table
discussion comment
5 years ago
It's hustle. But hustle isn't bad if you 1. see it for what it is, and 2. are enjoying it, and 3. are being honest with yourself when you tell yourself you're not catching feelings.
If I were you, given how hot you think she is, no question, I'd be popping the question. "Can I take you to dinner and a hotel room?"
discussion comment
5 years ago
Are you saying ITC you rated her a 7, then you saw her OTC and she was maybe a 3???? 4 point difference, That's a yuge drop. Yuge. My worst was a girl who was a solid 8.5 in the club -- just gorgeous with her stripper makeup and dark lights. In full daylight with light makeup? Her face was like a 6, and I thought that the 2.5 point drop was insane. Her body was still nice but oddly, her street clothes did not flatter her at all and even her body didn't look as nice. 'course, that was a fixable problem, I just got her clothes off and there was the amazing body again
discussion comment
5 years ago
"stag party" lol
I have never had a hangover that lasted longer than the next day, and in fact not many that lasted past mid-afternoon the next day.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I've actually stated my numbers about a zillion times. nicespice continues to hassle me about them :) I understand that these numbers may seem crazy to guys in lower priced locales, but from years of discussions with other local PLs, I'm doing really good.
I budget, for each trip, $300-$400. That's $100 for food, drinks, incidentals, and either 2-3 $100 VIPs (VIP prices have just gone up so will have to adjust those) depending on how long we stay. When I'm in full-blown PLhood over an ATF, I'll see her weekly or more, but I haven't been that crazy about a stripper for a while. Obviously, OTCs will eventually replace some of these trips. Right now I'm not making it to the club more than once a month, and am not anyone's regular -- nor would I expect that on a monthly $200 spend. Although now that I think about it, it doesn't take much more than that, either.
Also keep in mind that I usually SC with anywhere from 1-4 other people. And, while my CF is locked down at my table, she's fair game for any of my crew sitting at the Winning Table. So sometimes she'll walk away with $1000. That's just a little Subra-bonus for her.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Good spot Aham, I'd missed that entirely. $150/month, even done regularly, probably doesn't get anyone the kind of regular YMMV privileges real regulars get.
discussion comment
5 years ago
The way I tip:
- If I want to get the attention of a stripper I'm interested in, and she hasn't come by my table, I'll go to her stage and tip her $3-$5 per song. I just want her to have to come by me to pick up my singles and thank me, so I can invite her back to my table
- I'm often at the club during it's dead-est shifts; sometimes, there's only me (possibly with a buddy(s)) and one or two other customers, so the girls on stage are not getting tipped a dime. During these times, if I don't have a girl at the table, sometimes I set up camp at the row of tables that's one row back from the stage, and as every girl comes up, I'll walk up to the stage, drop her 4 or 5 dollars, and then go back to my seat. This seems to generate good will from the girls over the long term. It does mean some girls I'm not interested in will come by my table, but this is not a situation that's stressful for me and I'll just explain I'm just stage tipping, so I don't mind that this happens -- but perhaps not a good strategy for people who get anxiety over strippers they're not interested in coming to their table. Plus, I never know if that girl might end up appealing to one of my buddys on some other trip, or whether she'll be a rockin' fun drinking buddy, or whatever.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Yeah, the waitress comes with the bottle service -- and if I understand things right, among waitresses the bottle service gig is the most desirable one. The strippers do not come with bottle service, but hey, given a bunch of guys who just spent $1000 for 2 bottles of mediocre tequila, they are basically desirable targets. Plus girls will definitely wander in just to get some drinks regardless of whether they get dances.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I think referencing that you heard her menu was lower or read it in a review is downright childish. Even if you manage to get a lower price, she's likely to be resentful over it. I also think it's probably the right business model for the stripper to have a higher price at the lower-contact show club, than at the high contact show club. Unfortunately, having met her at the higher-priced lower-contact show club, she has you categorized as a "quote a higher price" customer.
I would most certainly re-negotiate. I might do the re-negotiating at the higher mileage showclub where prices are already lower. Then, instead of asking her for a quote -- almost always a mistake IMO, although I know opinions vary among seasoned PLs -- you make an offer on what you want to pay.
discussion comment
5 years ago
-->"but does this mean just the service or do I actually get to pick a "bottle" of something... and what would I pick?"
Did we ever answer this? Typically, for some set price, you get a bottle(s), table, more responsive service from a bottleservice girl. The prices are tiered, so, maybe $350 buys you the house vodka, $450 buys you Kettle One or Don Julio reposado, $1000 buys you Macallan, etc. You might have several choices at each price range.
Papi-->"I assume those bottles are over-priced and I assume many people that do bottle-service do it trying to be wannabe ballers and make an impression"
Right, the clubs do bottle service because they make even more money per bottle that way. In strip clubs, I do think that when we order bottle service, we do tend to get more attention from strippers. As I mentioned, last time we got this was a typical wall-to-wall sausagefest Saturday night and 1. we could not have gotten a table without bottle service, we would have had to stand, 2. strippers were all over our table in a way that just doesn't happen without bottle service at usual sausagefest hours (maybe nicespice can confirm, bottle service is expensive and gets the strippers attention, either just to hustle free drinks, or because it represents $$$ spent). And bottle service waitresses do provide better service, even in a strip club.
Ironically, on day shift, where you least need bottle service -- because prices are already lower and there's plenty of tables -- is when strip clubs seem to be most likely to have bottle service specials that actually favor bottle service over individual drinks. We always keep an eye out for this and indulge whenever it happens.
In hot dance clubs, bottle service makes more sense. But I imagine very few of us are of clubbing age lol
discussion comment
5 years ago
Bottle service is a sucker play for the "boys night out wooo!" guys, and usually, a terrible deal.
Also, I love bottle service :) Typically we only get bottle service if there's a special that makes sense (one of the clubs I go to puts bottles they're closing out on special, so at a pretty low price, we get all the benefits of bottle service) or if someone just wants to be a baller for the night. Last time we had bottle service, we were SCing on a Saturday night (basically, my most hated time); one of the guys had just gotten a huge raise, and surprised us by buying bottle service. What we got was a giant booth in the best part of the club, waaaay more strippers hanging around than we deserved, and so much alcohol that we and the strippers didn't even quite finish it all. Bottle service is pretty fun. Unless you get a good special, it's not practical or smart, but if you have the money to blow and you're SCing with buddies rather than sitting in a dark corner like a mushroom (aka the tuscl special), there's some fun benefits.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Rando, your girl is hawt!
That is exactly Icey, except he's at least 3 decades older than that
discussion comment
5 years ago
lol ... Eliza Dushku for me, assuming you remember me talking about the Dushku limit, well done
discussion comment
5 years ago
Papi: the fact that I do OTC out of no extras clubs throws it off even more for people here. There's no $X to get laid, you're not getting laid in a no-extras club. So the only way to compare ITC pricing is price per VIP room or whatever, which definitely does not correlate well with OTC prices. I can imagine there might be cities or clubs where it works better as a rule of thumb
discussion comment
5 years ago
For me, any correlation between OTC and ITC is indirect at best. For example, ITC at the clubs I go to, it's $100 for 3 songs (let's call it $500/hour) for a VIP, or $350 for 30 minutes ($700/hour) for champagne rooms -- and both of those are no extras. It would, though, be insane to say "okay, so 3-hour OTC should cost more than $1500/$2100 since extras are involved". There's just no bearing at all. Even $500 for OTC is a good deal higher than you need to go, at least for dayshift girls.
Why? Because, probably most importantly, the girls aren't making that much money on dayshift. Doesn't matter what VIP rooms cost. Dayshift sucks in SF. As mentioned by nicespice, the employment laws have made it even worse -- the girls take home less per shift, they are no longer allowed to work more than 32 hours a week so they take home less per week, and they can't even work doubles anymore so the popular "work all week then do doubles on Saturday" is no longer an option. Plain and simple, the girls aren't making that much. You are overpaying by a little, or a whole lot, if you use this as a guide. Especially with the girls not allowed to work more than 32 hours or do doubles, that leaves a lot of extra time for them where they need to make $ but can't do it at the club.
And even when we didn't have the terrible employment rules and dayshift was much busier, some years back, I found girls often took lower for OTC than you'd expect. My guess is, given the choice between making okay money for OTC with a known regular who she likes or at least is relatively less disgusted by, and making better money ITC but having to give a lot of it to the club, having to be "on" and dancing all day, having to deal with obnoxious customers and probing fingers in orifices, for some girls an OTC is the better choice. Especially now with the 32-hour limit, it's no longer either/or -- if she's worked 32 hours or even missed a shift, she's SOL.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Papi -- I see what you're saying, if it can be used as an upper limit sanity check, to keep newbies from paying $1k for OTC, then it's a fine tool. My worry was the opposite, people would think, "well, I want a 3-hour OTC, and the VIP room costs $300 an hour, so I should offer $900".
-->"How different is OTC price from ITC?"
There's many ways OTC price is different from ITC, but perhaps the most important by far: OTC is price by the event, ITC is priced by time (and/or by which particular room you use). So I negotiate $350 (say) for OTC? That's what she gets if the OTC goes 2 hours, or 6, or overnight (as long as I don't make the mistake of explicitly saying "$X for Y amount of time", and keep all discussions at the event level). This applies unless you're dealing with a high-volume escort-style stripper. This is one of many things that makes OTC (and SA, for that matter) sooooo much cheaper than escorts, on a time basis.
discussion comment
5 years ago
For me, CJKent is way, way overthinking. It's the guy's very first OTC. He's going to be nervous enough. Figure there's a good chance she'll flake, check in with her by text to make sure she's still on before driving to wherever you're meeting. Rick brought up a good point I forgot (don't book hotel too far in advance), but I go even further, don't book the hotel until she's actually shown up.
Also like Rick, I've never correlated either VIP price, or some guesstimate on how much she makes per shift, with my OTC offer. OTC is OTC, it's different than ITC, and there's no reason you have to link them together. That said, it seems like a lot of guys on tuscl follow this, so if it works for them, great.
After he gets over OTC nerves, there's plenty of time to fine-tune things like the speech on how he values punctuality, or being "clear" in his own head on what he wants out of this, or whatever
discussion comment
5 years ago
Muddy: eating at a strip club with a decent kitchen is the best deal in the club, as far as the stripper's time. I'll grab a stripper and hang out with her at my table, then at some point "hey can I buy you lunch?". Now it's a 10 minute wait for the waitress, 20 minute wait for the food, 30 minutes to eat, 20 minutes to digest before we're ready to head to the VIP. Locked up all for the $20 Louisiana Back-bay Bayou Bunny Bordelaise, a la Antoine. 'course, the 3-4 shots we do over this time period adds to the cost. But it's still over an hour of table flirting and groping, and like I said, fun to eat together.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I don't get distracted, but I can also walk and chew gum at the same time :)
lol... okay, being a bit of a dick, but ... No, if a fugly sits next to me, I don't lose my appetite. But I seem generally less personally-insulted by unattractive strippers than many here. I don't mind sitting with a stripper I'm not attracted to as long as I enjoy talking to her. And, if a hot girl is sitting with me, I'll have already ordered lunch for her, too -- or if she comes up after I have my food (which is very rare; most girls stay away when they see your food arrive), I will happily split my Monte Cristo with her, or let her snarf my french fries; if she's really hot, I may, dare I say it, give her my pickle. Bonding over food is a fine art, and one that I practice as often as I can :)
discussion comment
5 years ago
This is the first OTC, don't overthink it. You don't even have any experience yet to make a judgement on what you're looking for anyway. Don't make it weird. Go have fun you crazy kids.
There's at least a 50% chance she'll flake. Get that into your head, and be pleasantly surprised (and express your appreciation to her) if she makes it. If she flakes, hey, that's what you were expecting anyway. BTW, the more $ that's on the line, the less likely she'll flake.
Keep in touch with her by text every now and then, and make sure you confirm day-of. If she goes silent day-of or day before, she'll likely flake.
discussion comment
5 years ago
![]()
rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
Years ago, when the local SC forums were around and very explicit, a few times the girls figured out who the reviewers were, and it affected those guys' time in the club. Although not to the extent you might expect. And if guys posting explicit reviews with prices were only somewhat blackballed by the girls, I suppose it might not be as bad as we think.
I know for a fact the girls know my buddies and I in the clubs we frequent. We've had new girls tell us "yeah, we heard you guys get all the girls and the staff drunk" and the like. I have no idea if any more explicit info gets shared, but if it does, I can't tell
discussion comment
5 years ago
flag hiding in her back seat.
discussion comment
5 years ago
The pimps of Team WinningTeam would not let a bunch of geriatric tricks tell them what to do. Tricks gotta trick, pimps gotta pimp. Nom sayin'?
Anyway, depending on how much discretion you need and how much you have to lose, at the very least, may be worth buying a few searches just to reverse lookup your own #. Some of those sites get hits on google voice and other "safe" lines. I reverse search the girls just as a basic safety check, although honestly, in all the years I've done that, I think there's only once it made a difference. We searched my buddy's girl, hit on her social media which he saw was full of thugs -- not even the kind of thugs icey pretends to be (what kind of thug is also a loony leftist? lol), but hardcore bangers. He decided to abort.
discussion comment
5 years ago
![]()
CJKent (Banned)“The more a person needs to be right, the less certain he is...”
^^^This makes as much sense as everything else CJKent posts, though