Hustle or real deal?

She is most likely hustling you. Just ask. Take it to the next step. P4P. Worse that could happen is that you get a no and then you move on to another.

Is this dancer similar age to you? Is she similarly attractive to other women you have dated?

When you’ve dated other women, do they give you lap dances after dinner ? Did you pay them ?

===> "I guess my question is, is this just a hustle? Is she grooming me for paying her for sex? "

Do you need to be groomed to pay for sex? ;)

Yes, she is hustling you - there is zero question about that. Now there is nothing inherently wrong with a girl hustling to get paid if you get the right ROI, but this situation sucks donkey ass. The whole point in getting her OTC is to take the club out of the equation and to have more uninhibited fun. But instead of that, she's actually dragging you back in the club so that she can collect more money from you while still having bouncers on hand to keep you in line. LMAO.

So yes she is hustling you and IMHO no, sadly, she is not trying to groom you for p4p sex. In fact, it sounds like she's trying to have the best of all worlds while giving you as little as possible in return. Good Lord.

Time to saddle up cowboy and let her know that, if you take her out again, you'd prefer to skip the club and pay her directly somewhere more private. if she balks, then hit the flush handle and move on and consider this a tuition payment.

In the simplest of terms - if you gotta ask if you're being hustled, you're likely are.

Dealing with strippers is busine$$ - business and pleasure usually don't mix - it's usually one or the other and with strippers it's only about the $$$ with rare exceptions.

Thanks for the input. Honestly, the rational part of me knows I’m being hustled, but I sort of don’t care. The lap dances are by far the best ive ever had. I have dated girls that were equally good looking, but none that were sexual firecrackers like her. I can tell the sex would be the best of my life, so I’m kind of down to continue for awhile on the outside chance it could happen. She’s definitely triggered some sort ofnlustful desire I didn’t know I had. She seems pretty horny, but she also seems pretty pro at building rapport and getting regulars. And it’s sort of enjoyable to go on dates where there is zero pressure. This is in Portland where girls have been busted by undercover dudes for offering sex for money, so I had wondered if she was getting to know me before offering. I’m hesitant to ask as it would kill the slim possibility of hooking up for free. She does keep texting me, but probably just to keep me interested. I’ve just never had strippers actually go on dates outside of club or give out real phone numbers before, which gave me foolish hope.

ITC leads to OTC leads back to ITC, sounds like a good hustle to me.

If it was dinner, drinks (or coffee), I might say you had a slight chance she was interested in you but by taking her back to her club and having you buy VIP dances it's an absolute hustle.

If you want to try to salvage the situation, cut the dinner and VIP dance BS our, ask her nicely to go to have some P4P fun, if she agrees bang her if not move on.

Ya, that's a superior hustle. OTC for dinner only, then back to the club for dances at club prices, then back OTC but for drinks only.

It's hustle. But hustle isn't bad if you 1. see it for what it is, and 2. are enjoying it, and 3. are being honest with yourself when you tell yourself you're not catching feelings.

If I were you, given how hot you think she is, no question, I'd be popping the question. "Can I take you to dinner and a hotel room?"

Hustle. If you want more, you have to ask for it. When dealing with a stripper, expect to pay. Free rarely happens and it would have happened by now if she wanted that.

===> "This is in Portland where girls have been busted by undercover dudes for offering sex for money, so I had wondered if she was getting to know me before offering."

That's ridiculous. for too many reasons to say. She is not remotely worried about this with you by this point.

Also, to your other points, the more you do this, the more silly you'll look to her, the more tired she will become of you and the less likely it will be that you'll get anything more from her. It's your money to spend how you want I suppose. I guess some people don't learn the first time and need to pay tuition over and over for the same lesson - kinda' like when a college kid fails a class and has to pay for the credits all over again. ;)

What's your and her apporimate ages?

@Trussell

You’re hustling yourself with your nice guy approach to getting laid. I.E. You’re doing stuff with expectations of something in return that you aren’t communicating to her. Why wouldn’t any girl, civilian or professional, take advantage of the way you’re acting?

If you agree to sell me item a for $100 then I turn around and say I want items a & b for the same $100 then how would you feel? That’s exactly what you are doing to her. Your getting a for $100 but really want a and b. Not cool.

@Trussel

I’d also echo echo other commenters above. Ask for exactly what you really want whether that’s a day or P4P. Don’t beat around the bush which rarely works out well for either of you.

...date...

@rickdugan appreciate the real talk

@pauldrake 35 and 26

Yeah I should probably drop this shit and hit up tinder. But god dammit, her booty is amazing and her skin is like satin. Maybe one more attempt at dinner and ask her to go to hotel room.

The fact that she has you come back to the club and buy VIP every time you go out with her makes it a hustle.

Paying for dinner and drinks is just normal shit though

If you want sex with strippers, you gotta pay. Decide the max you would pay her ($300? $400?) and then make her an offer. Start a little lower than your maximum. If she refuses, tell her you're moving on and find another stripper.

The first issue for the avg inexperienced and/or not-TUSCLarly educated strip-club custy, is not being fully-aware they are in a different environment - the avg inexperienced SC custy only has the "real world" as reference and goes to a strip-club and interacts with strippers as they would at a regular bar and as if the strippers was there to get picked up - strippers and custies are at the strip club for different reasons - the custy is there either for entertainment, or b/c he's horny, or b/c he's lonely - the stripper is there to bank and she interacts with 100s of custies each week - she's being tried to be picked-up or fucked plenty of times at the club by plenty of guys - a stripper is at the club day-after-day week-after-week and sometimes year-after-year - i.e. they know the strip-club game better than most custies that really don't know much about it and the strippers use this to their advantage - most of the interaction at strip-clubs is a game and smoke-and-mirrors thus it's usually hard to really know a stripper's motives.

Also - the guy needs to know for sure what it is he really wants - in a club full of naked women paying attention to you if not throwing themselves at you, it's easy for an inexperienced SCer to lose track of reality and whether consciously or subconsciously he's often thinking w/ his dick instead of his big-head - so you need to ask yourself what you want:

a) date her like a regular chick and hopefully fuck her for free

b) cut to the chase and get her to service you

For option (a), you gotta ask yourself if you really wanna date a stripper and all the drama that usually comes from that (and there is often drama beyond what the avg guy has ever experienced or can even comprehend) - and you gotta ask yourself if you are comfortable with a girl you're dating being groped by random guys at the club on a regular basis - or ask yourself if all you really just wanna is to fuck her.

For option (b); no need to play coy - strippers get asked for sex ALL THE TIME; it's not as if you are gonna offend her like you would in a civilian setting - again it's business.

No one can say that you can't fuck a stripper for free if you know what you are doing and look halfway decent and fairly close in age - but 9 times out of 10 the guy that thinks he has a chance is usually just being played and manipulated long enough for her to bleed him as much as she can till he either catches-on to the hustle, gets frustrated and stops trying, or he becomes too-much work/a-pest for her and she proceeds to avoid him - and 9 times out of 10 the guy that has to ask if a stripper really likes him or has to wonder, usually doesn't have what it takes to date a stripper b/c he doesn't have the required game/confidence or knowledge about how to deal with strippers.

As Subraman posted, if you know what you're dealing with then you can play along and see where it leads w/o losing your shirt - but it's hard to be a custy that pays for dances at the club then expect to get laid by her for free - could work, but don't bet on it especially if you haven't played that game b/f.

In the civilian world most guys will pop the sex question to a regular chick they have already dated several times, unless she's a born-again Christian or something - most young people that are attracted to each other will have sex once they've known each other a bit - so nothing wrong with asking her for (free) sex if you've dated a couple of times - if she's all coy about it then good chance she's just stringing you along; there's an outside chance she's not but it's an outside chance - but if all you want is to fuck her and move-on, then might as well just propose P4P if she may o/w think you and her may actually have a relationship.

Lastly be on the lookout if all of a sudden she starts having "emergencies" where she asks you for $$$ b/c X,Y, or Z, happened - it may start small like "OMG my phone is gonna get cutoff can you please help me this month" and then pretty-soon she's gonna be asking for $$$ for the rent b/c "she was ill and couldn't work", etc - it may also help if you find some social-media of her and see if she already has a S.O. which is not uncommon (it wouldn't be stalking, it'd be research).

Papi laid out everything eloquently and factual. She's hustling you friend pure plain and simple. As others have stated if you want to fuck her then get right to the chase and lay your cards on the table. The worst she can say is no then at that point it's up to you where the relationship goes. Lust is a powerful thing but remember there's another hot slutty chick out there who will take your offer if she wont

I’ve connected with her on social media and based om conversations pretty confident she doesn’t currently have a SO. Some of the stuff she’s said and done made me think she was down to keep hanging out outside of club and I’ve certainly made comments about wanting to eat her pussy and shit like that and she seemed interested. I was in Portland but just moved a couple hours away and she’s talked about visiting and has kept texting me even though I’m not in area. She has kid, though, and I can tell she’s probably a little bit of head case. She’s also been in strip club scene for awhile and pretty tied into it, not really sure I want to get to into that dark world. Does seem like an expert in reading guys and knowing what they want. She obviously likes me buying dinner for her and lap dances, but hasn’t hit me up for money or anything like that, doesn’t seem desperate for money. I’m totally aware other dudes are hitting on her and probably doing same thing I am. I do tend to get fixated on one girl and can get persistent, but sometimes it pays off. She’s clearly my all time favorite at this point, so I suppose I could just look at as cool chick to get lap dances from and hang out with some times and maybe some day actually pull off getting laid. But not totally sure that’s healthy, could see myself getting weird emotional attachment based on lust. I appreciate the feedback.

Many dancers have dancer specific social media - if you don't see any family members on it I would assume it's not her personal social media

Her son is on there, lots of random regular posts.

How long has she been dancing?

In my opinion... if you’re enjoying it...
why not just enjoy it and see where it goes...

in my case... I’d be open to that situation. (however I am like 45-50 years older than my preferred stripper girl.)

@Trussel

I will put my two cents to answer your inquiries:

“I guess my question is, is this just a hustle?”

Yes, it is, if you mean to swindle as to use deception to deprive (someone = you) of money or possessions.

“Is she grooming me for paying her for sex?”
“Any chance she is actually into me?”

Who knows what she or any woman wants, most times they don’t even know what they want.

“I can tell the sex would be the best of my life, so I’m kind of down to continue for awhile on the outside chance it could happen.”...”gave me foolish hope.”

You have unrealistic expectations about “the best sex of my life” and you know you are being foolish.

Just know that sometimes we (men) get played nor because we are ignorant or inexperienced. Even experienced smart TUSCL men get played some times… and not because the strippers are super smart, smooth or Machiavellian... but because their behavior and SS has enough tangible possibility for it to be believable, to make us believe we have a chance...

“Belief is often the death of reason.”

I know you know, you are a RIL (Regular In Love/Lust); and a comment in TUSCL to a RIL applies to your situation:
"BTW, just so you know, there is likely a BF banging her for free and taking a cut of her earnings”

I know you won’t listen to any of the advice we are giving you, that you asked for, neither to your own rational thoughts. Like many you want/have to learn the hard way.

In any case there may be a 3 year old that is being affected by her mother’s behavior and decisions and a Baby Daddy that can also get involved, so be careful and responsible.

If you really just want to se if the sex is “the best sex of your life” tell her half kiddingly:
“I want you to fuck me like it is my last day in this earth, can your do it? Would you do it?” and see what is her reaction.

Please let us know about your relationship in detail so we can learn from you experience.

Good luck and thank you for the story.

===> "I’m totally aware other dudes are hitting on her and probably doing same thing I am. "

Much more likely is that other dudes are going balls deep in her while you behave like a love struck ATM. ;)

This reminds me both of my ATF and the runner-up to the ATF title. Both used to run romance hustles on guys foolish enough to get sucked into platonic nonsense like this. In the meantime, I was fucking them on a p4p basis.

One guy used to run out to the ATM and bring my ATF back more money just to keep her goodwill (I saw it several times) and eventually went so broke that he took on a night time second job to pay off the credit cards he ran up - at the same club she worked at! He was as pathetic as all get out. Meanwhile, I was fucking her once a week and she liked to be choked and spanked hard.

The runner-up had a guy so wrapped around her finger that he was actually crying and whispering "please don't break up with me" as she took his last $40 giving him a couple of LDs - I saw this too. The dude even followed her around the club after like a puppy and, when he finally realized that it was over, started sending the girl pictures of himself with a GF in order to make her jealous - LMAO. She showed and told me all of this so we could laugh at him and her predicament. I was banging this girl too, though less frequently.

Sometimes Trussell a man has to decide what he wants to be in this life and mold himself accordingly. Do you want to be the guy who gets laid and the one who gets played? Because make no mistake, both categories exist for her and right now you're one of the guys who is getting played. If i were you I would change the narrative, even at the risk of losing your gig with her, but ultimately each man has to make these decisions for himself.

I wouldn't say she's doing anything bad or view what she's doing negatively. She's not forcing him to do anything. Its his choice.I also don't think resorting to P4P with her is a solution to the problem.... It would just put him in a different type of manipulative hustle.

A girl I like now....a dancer..wants to be honest about everything with me and she admitted to doing a similar hustle. She says there's no sex, not even making out, she just has drinks or dinner with guys to get them spending more at the club.

The thing I've noticed with dancers is that if they really like you, they let you know it. I've never had doubts when they really do.

To me, the whole taking OP back to the club is a huge red flag as to her real intentions.

Stories like this make me glad to just be playing in the strip club "Little League", you know, the one where a married or attached guy goes to a strip club, gets a few dances, feels some boobies (and legs, thighs, buns, bellies, boobs again, backs, nipples, belly buttons), gets a hug, maybe a cheek kiss, says "thank you", and leaves.

So simple, so fun, so uncomplicated. So "that was great, seemed so real at the time".

Best wishes on deciding where you are in this game.

Appreciate all the comments, mostly confirmed what I already knew deep down. Looking more at her social media, I realize this gal has a pretty brilliant hustle going on. She sucks in these kind of lonely, horny guys, many of them stoners. I quit smoking weed a long time ago, but I’ve been super busy with work and haven’t had relations with a woman in awhile, so I’d fall into the lonely/horny guy. She offers kind of a girlfriend experience with the dates, but they are for regulars who buy $250-500 1/2 hour vip dances from her. She also gets the whole white knight thing going by posting photos of her son so guys think they are helping support a single mom. She been in the strip game for awhile, she knows the game well. Got a smoking body and maybe best butt I’ve ever seen and knows how to gets guys hooked on it. I’m guessing she’s got a lot of guys buying her gifts and giving her money. Honestly, I respect her hustle. Seems a little dangerous, but I’m sure it makes her a lot of money. She does seem pretty horny and likes male attention, I think I could probably get some sexual benefits if I kept this up for awhile. But would probably involve dropping several thousand over a period of time and building up rapport. And may never happen. Not sure I want to be that guy, and really not even sure I really want to pay for sex, something I’ve never done. No disrespect to those who do, I get it. I did send her pretty forward text kind of using suggestions from here about what I’m looking for, haven’t heard back yet. I do think I kind of got a little emotionally attached, and even if dating were a possibility, seems like she’s probably a total headache/mind trip. Be fun for awhile, but probably suck a lot of money out and fuck head up. Probably wise to drop it and move on. If anything happens, I’ll probably update here, but I’m guessing she’ll either just keep trying to pull same hustle or move on to other guys. I do think strip clubs are best if you just go to have fun and not expect anything to happen outside of club. An interesting experience regardless, definitely learning shit about myself and women. And the need to sharpen my game and focus.

And rickdugan is right about one thing, I can tell she’s into wild sex with choking, spanking, etc., which is part of what really draws me to her, never been with a chick like that. I get the feeling she doesn’t really know how to have a relationship with a guy that is based on anything besides sex.

I didn't read all of this, but when I got to this comment I was ready to reply.

"Thanks for the input. Honestly, the rational part of me knows I’m being hustled, but I sort of don’t care. "

If you are enjoying yourself and you feel you are getting good value for your money it's all good. It sounds like you aren't yet a RIL.

If you feel you stop getting your money's worth you gotta push for more action or be ready (able) to cut back.

Trussell. You are starting to get the point. A Strip Club sells sexual FANTASY. Go into the club and turn on your fantasy game. Literally turn on your game. You pay the girl to play with you. When your playtime is done for the night, TURN OFF your fantasy game until next time. I have found that by doing such, the game gets a hell of a lot more fun with new players that just get better because you begin to realize that your fantasy with one may get stale after so many visits. For me, 3 is it, then I completely move on to new horizons to keep MY FANTASY fresh.

Trussell, you don't know anything about this chick. You are a customer and you're seeing what she wants you to see. The reality is that: (1) she probably has a BF (they almost all do); (2) you have no idea what she really likes in bed because you haven't been in one with her; (3) lonely horny stoners are not normally the bread and butter for most strippers - successful guys in relationships are because they're the ones who can afford the pay the freight over and over; (4) if she's doing OTC with other guys, they are probably getting sex from her, because that is what most savvy guys with cash to spend are looking for from a girl like her - just not you; (5)...[insert more here]

Other than the fact that she has a son and works in the club, you need to throw out everything you think you know about her as most of it is likely crap. It's hard for newbies to come to grips with just how good some of these girls can lie and play act, but eventually you'll understand. You are getting invested in her dancer persona, not the real her.

Like several comments above, thinking she would be the best sex ever isn't anywhere close to guaranteed. You're just seeing the image and body. I've seen plenty of smoking hot dancers and approached them to talk and start with a dance and often been disappointed after one or two. Many times it's the unlikely one that clicked or whatever it was she did even though she wasn't a 10.

If she has a child(ren), not uncommon for the babydaddy to be in her life (or in and out of it).

Also it shouldn't take $1000s to be able to bang a chick - that's pretty-much P4P

-->@Trussell: " I think I could probably get some sexual benefits if I kept this up for awhile. But would probably involve dropping several thousand over a period of time and building up rapport. And may never happen. Not sure I want to be that guy . . . I do think strip clubs are best if you just go to have fun and not expect anything to happen outside of club. An interesting experience regardless, definitely learning shit about myself and women."

Ya, don't be that guy unless what your spending is within your budget and you're having fun and don't regret the amount spent. Strip clubs are so much fun, easy to overspend, and it can be addictive. But I don't regret the $ I've spent despite my expenditure increasing over time above what I thought I'd ever spend when I commenced the hobby.

I certainly don’t regret any money or time I’ve spent with her so far. I’ve gotten plenty of champagne room dances from different women and she has been the best and hottest so far. Just based on the lap dances, her athletic ability and flexibility it is totally clear sex with her would be amazing. And I’ve agreed with most of what @rickdugar has said so far, except for the last comments. I’ve had pretty long personal discussions with her over dinner and she shared pretty personal info about her past and her situation with the baby daddy and custody situation. I realize there is a lot I don’t know about her and she could be lying about stuff. But we’ve had pretty genuine conversations and I can usually tell when someone is bullshitting me. Could she have boyfriend? Sure. Is she hooking up with other guys? Probably. Is she accepting money for sex? I’m not sure on that one. She shares a ton of shit on her Instagram of her daily life and I’ve seen no signs of a regular boyfriend. Not that he doesn’t exist, but I really dont think she is in any commited kind of relationship. Unlike most strippers, she seems to mesh her regular life with her stripper life.

I agree that strip clubs and certain dancers can be addicting. I’ve spent more than I probably should, but nothing I can’t afford. I know I have to be careful about getting attached or expecting anything beyond some fantasy, but I think I’m ok with occasionally taking her to dinner and getting lap dances if this whole hookup thing doesn’t pan out, the dances are awesome and taking her out before hand makes them even better. I did change my narrative and get more aggressive with pursuing what I want from her, but I’ve gotten honest that this is part of a hustle and it’s probably not going further than what it has so far.

LOL - could be lying to you?

Lying goes with stripping more than g-strings - safer to assume she's lying and you play along, then be pleasantly surprised if she's being truthful - not that everything strippers say it's a lie but I don't think there's a male that can tell when they're lying or being honest, particularly w.r.t. a seasoned stripper - and why safer to assume in bizarro-world she's at best being selectively honest.

Many of these girls are banging custies for $$$ and their BFs think they are just mostly giving lonely old men company

@48CowBoy +1

A dancer's or hooker's job is to sell a fantasy. I wouldn't call what she does lying. When you're paying for her services, whether ITC or OTC, you're paying for said fantasy.

And on her end, if she liked you, she'd let you know. They tend to be pretty open about liking you and things usually move pretty quickly with dancers. The whole thing about expecting to grow on her and her eventually liking you is pretty much bs. Don't string yourself along.

Ok, I’m a moron. Her latest post was “her room for the night”, some master suite in a swanky hotel. Obviously banging some dude for money. Not gonna lie, it stung a little bit when it hit me, and I realized I definitely had become an RIL. Oh well, lesson learned. I suppose that means I could bang her if I want to throw down some money, but I’ve heard from regulars of that club that the chicks who will do p4p charge about $3k and expect a luxury experience. Not sure I’m that desperate.

If you're a regular, the more they charge the less they really like you....

Bang her in the backseat of her car...

Judging from your other thread and you still considering it despite all the advice you got in here, you ARE that desperate.

Walk away with some pride....

You already have feelings for her. A girl who returns feelings won't ask you to give her $3k to fuck her.