discussion comment
7 years ago
-->"So the key is to be a regular? Interesting. How many times a week do you visit your ATF and whats the maximum you spending?
Wouldn't it break the bank before it becomes a relationship?"
It's a relationship from the beginning: a stripper/customer relationship at first, and then eventually ATF/regular relationship, it's important not to lose sight of that fact that it's a business relationship at its heart. Beyond that, I don't think you're thinking about this right when you say "the key is to be a regular" ... it's as if you're thinking that it's a sane thing to go to the strip club with the sole goal of trying to become fuckbuddies with a stripper, that's a huge waste of time and money. In all the years I've been doing this, I've ended up in FWB with a stripper a tiny handful of times.
If your goal is to fuck lots of strippers for free, often, then you should have a completely different strategy: you should start learning the skills and developing the personality to be a strip club DJ. What I AM saying is, in many years, the only times I got to fuck a stripper for free, I was her regular first. But it would be insane to spend all the time and $$$$$ to be a stripper's regular just in pursuit of that -- you become a regular because you like her and enjoy the benefits that being a regular bestows and you're fine sticking with just one girl, and that in itself is the end goal.
discussion comment
7 years ago
-->"It has been said many times that if you want to date a stripper, fuck a stripper for free, or hang out with her OTC without paying for her time, then you shouldn't spend a lot of money on her ITC or become a regular of hers."
Larry, I mostly see that repeated by PUA charlatans, who are selling a product, and their socially-awkward customers are basically the choir to which they preach. This approach works great to sell PUA books, evidently.
I don't know any actual PLs who agree with it ... if anything, I think many of us recognize that favored regulars get benefits that are either not available to others, or available to others but at higher $.
discussion comment
7 years ago
For you guys who use Google voice, I think it's likely a perfectly good solution most of the time.... but some of the for-pay reverse lookup services have pretty decent databases on mapping google voice to real names. Most strippers wouldn't use such databases, I imagine; and, as long as you've been careful, there's no way to have mapped your real name to a number.
I realize I'm more on the cautious side than most, but I pay a couple of bucks for a reverse lookup on my ho line every year or so, to make sure they haven't figured out my real name
discussion comment
7 years ago
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LDJunkieEnjoying lap dances for 15 years and counting...
MULANEY-->"@Subraman never thought about it that way. Always figured i had a keen sense of smell and couldnt smell anything so it wasnt there."
I'd be super cautious ... There's a reason most people can't tell whether their houses smell, but you can smell their family smell the moment you walk in. They're practically physically incapable of smelling it -- your brain shuts it off. People who love cologne and perfume go through all sorts of gyrations to wear their fragrance in such a way that they can continue to smell it as the day goes on!
-->"The solution of keeping a spair change of clothes: What do you do when you get home and your SO asks why you changed clothes from when you left the house?"
I have two solutions to that! First, I commonly left the house, went to work, changed out of my work clothes into my clubbing clothes, went to the club, changed back into work clothes on the way home. Leave the house and come home in exactly the same clothes.
If I did go clubbing in the clothes I left the house in, like I said I kept my gym clothes and spare clothes in my gym bag. My standard story was: went to the gym, worked out, showered, didn't want to change back into my nice work clothes so changed into my hanging out shirt and jeans... which are in my gym bag.
I don't think any of this ever raised the tiniest bit of suspicion... certainly not as much as smelling like Victoria Secret Vanilla Fantasy might have
discussion comment
7 years ago
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LDJunkieEnjoying lap dances for 15 years and counting...
If you are married and have an SO, and you don't at least have a change of clothes (how hard is it to keep a gym bag with spare regular clothes under some gym clothes?), I think you most likely secretly want to get caught ... since 1. just because you don't smell it on you, doesn't mean you don't stink like floozy, you will be completely noseblind by the time you leave the club, and 2. fragrance sticks to clothes, to the point that it sometimes survives a trip through the washer. So, this is easy: if the stripper was wearing body spray or perfume that you can smell, and she gave you a lapdance, your clothes ABSOLUTELY smell like her whether you can smell it or not, the other question is how close your nose has to be to detect it, and how quickly it will dissipate (super cheap body sprays dissipate faster)
Absolutely minimum standard if you have a relationship at stake:
1. Changes clothes
2. Wipe down with babywipes or soap and water at a local restroom
discussion comment
7 years ago
I went with TextNow yesterday, dropping sideline. After just one day, it's working fine but honestly I'm still not even sure how it works. RM, sending texts on TextNow costs money if you're not on the wifi? Maybe I should just try that right now and see what happens...
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Cashman1234He/Him - He’s a filthy pig. That’s him in VIP with another whore.
^^^ Exactly. It all, of course, depends on how much you have to lose. I'm guessing the guys who think a stalker stripper couldn't use a first name (plus other very small details of your life, with tend to leak out over time, even if your last name doesn't) to hunt you down, haven't actually looked into it.
I also think the guys with little to lose, who aren't afraid of a stripper finding them, have a point, too. Hard to make blanket statements, and different people have different risk tolerances and different judgements as to what is a risk at all. It's pretty personal -- the only black/white is the argument over, say, whether someone with your first name and a very few other facts might be able to find you, and the answer is factually yes.
Like I said, for me, I don't twist much over this. I have very little to lose and the risk is low to me regardless. I still enjoy the karmic balance of both of us using fake names, I just get a kick out of it, and if there's minor security advantages to it, that's great
discussion comment
7 years ago
There have been a bunch of recent conversations on this topic... There's plusses and minuses to burner phone versus second-line app on your main phone. For me, second-line app is by far the right answer
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Doces300You can run but you will only die tired
In a group as often as possible. Sometimes that's 50% of the time, but there's stretches where it's less.
Totally understand why guys don't like going with amateur, my-one-big-guys-night-out type guys, no fun at all to be a PL with a table full of nincompoops. But it's crazy advantageous, and fun, to be with a group of PLs, IMO; I'd NEVER choose to go alone if I had the option to go with my fellow PLs
discussion comment
7 years ago
-->"At an extras club, it is more common for a dancer to sit and chat with me anywhere from 15-30 minutes, and I will usually buy her a drink to buy as much time as possible for conversation. I think this is more common in extras clubs because the girls bank a ton of money on doing extras, and therefore can afford to spend more time engaging in conversation."
Funny, at the clubs here the experience is exactly the opposite. Extras clubs are hit it or quit it, non-extras clubs the girls stick around. And I have my own confirmation bias explanation: In extras clubs, the centerpiece of the experience is sex, so spend a few minutes getting his juices flowing, then wham bam thank you PL. In a no-extras club, the experience is about lust, sensuality, and the perception of a connection, so socialization is expected and what keeps the dollars flowing.
Of course, that's all a dayshift perspective. Late nightshift is always a wannadance sausagefest and there's no much socialization in any type of club. If you want to spend more than 3 minutes talking to a girl, it's no-extras clubs only
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Cashman1234He/Him - He’s a filthy pig. That’s him in VIP with another whore.
Fake first name, have done this for many years.
My current reason for doing so: I get a kick out of it, and I feel like there's some karmic balance in neither of us knowing each others' first names.
The reason I initially started doing it: and yes, I realize this was, to some extent, overthinking paranoia. One day, talking to a stripper, I realized that my then-girlfriend (and later wife) and I often partied in the same places as the strippers, and just that past weekend, we'd missed each other at the same club by like 30 minutes. I don't think the strippers would purposely out me, but drunken strippers are sometimes loud and impulsive (yes! I know this is shocking) and I could just imagine them not seeing my girlfriend and screaming out "Subraman! Subraman!" or whatever. I decided that giving them a fake name (I went with "Flagooner") gave me a little margin for error ... we're walking around party central and some drunk stripper calls out "Flagooner!" I'm like "I have no idea who that girl thinks I am, what the hell is she calling me? Flooner?" and hustle her out of there.
discussion comment
7 years ago
I do this on a pretty regular basis -- we're easily sitting an hour before we do our first dance. I do a $100 VIP at a time.
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Doces300You can run but you will only die tired
-->"If you want a significantly higher level of reliability, then switch to escorts. Dealing with *most* strippers is like herding rabid cats on crack, even if you don't put up with their SS. "
Right. To me, the level of unprofessionalism is precisely what makes OTC 1000x better than an escort. Strippers are 10x hotter than comparably priced escorts, and most will add in dinner, drinking, and even overnights for free -- that are not professionals, so they do not charge by the minute. If I think about the hottest stripper I've done an overnight with, the price for a comparably-hot escort would be 10x as much -- and that is not an exaggeration.
Of course, there's two sides to the unprofessional coin -- in order to get our hot stripper who doesn't bother charging extra for hours of her time, we have to deal with flakiness, lack of return texts, etc. Worth it!
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Doces300You can run but you will only die tired
-->"i've heard the " i never look at my text messages" excuse. "sometimes I forget to press send"
most strippers can't even keep the damn phone in service. they even lose them"
For sure. I do think, though, that it's difficult for many of us older guys, to even remotely comprehend what's going on, on a young stripper's phone. These girls often have a wide circle of ... well, if not friends, at least acquaintances, and they keep in touch with a circle of scores of people through text. They get and receive many thousands of texts per month. Now add into that, the stripper/client relationship is far less important to her, than it is to us, in most cases.
In any case, many of these girls treat their friends and family the way they treat you -- missing texts completely, or sometimes not responding at all. We are at the bottom of the hierarchy, but only their BFFs and current fuck buddies are guaranteed timely responses, and even that's inconsistent.
A stripper I"m really close to has told me many times: if you text me at night and I don't text you back, make sure you text me again. If I'm out partying and drunk, I always check my texts as they come in, but usually won't respond when I'm drunk and always forget the next day. And by the time I wake up the next day, your text will be waaaay down on the text list (she'll have gotten a dozen texts from other people by then) AND since the text was already read, it won't show up as new. Then she showed me her phone, and sure enough it was true. She gets a LOT of texts.
Anyway, just some fun insight into what's going on, in many cases
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Doces300You can run but you will only die tired
While it changes based on situation, my basic process is to send her the initial text, and if I don't hear back, text her again in a day or two at the very most; no more replies after that, I'm switching to other plans. I don't blacklist her or anything, but if she doesn't get back to me, I'm not going to re-text more than once and not waiting around too terribly long
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Doces300You can run but you will only die tired
-->" I laughed and told her I'm not an NFL player."
I know you said you were just doing it to see if she'd come down, but that IS exactly the type of reaction that, if you'd actually taken the deal, nearly 100% of the time leads to poor service, IMO. Again, gut instinct, I feel devaluing them may work in business but works terribly on strippers, whereas an approach that reinforces how awesome she is but regrettably your budget is lower, tends to work well.
I do completely agree with you guys that many girls cite very high quotes just to see if a sucker will take it. Another reason not to approach the negotiation by asking how much she charges -- particularly if you're a no-negotiation guy
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Cashman1234He/Him - He’s a filthy pig. That’s him in VIP with another whore.
All businesses are non-smoking by law in CA ... a law I fucking well adore. Ya,all the SCs are non-smoking here
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Doces300You can run but you will only die tired
Yeah, I think this exact same factor works on me, too. I dislike being the seller who is being talked down. Probably why I'm not an awesome businessman and need to stay in tech ;)
Anyway, my personal rule is: never let her quote her price. for myself I'm happier quoting my price and gettting bargained up
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Cashman1234He/Him - He’s a filthy pig. That’s him in VIP with another whore.
-->"This is TMI: but I evacuate my bowels before hitting the club. I treat clubbing the same way l would a date with a civvie."
To the contrary, I've long been worried about tuscl's collective fiber intake, and I think it's high time that there's a bowel movement check here.
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Cashman1234He/Him - He’s a filthy pig. That’s him in VIP with another whore.
-->"Supposedly in tests they've done of bathrooms the toilet seats usually don't have that many germs - it's often the moist-areas like the sink/faucet-handles, and also the door-handles, that supposedly have more germs (not 100% sure about that though)"
It's not even close, the things we don't think twice about touching contain far more coliform fecal bacteria than the toilet seat. Doesn't matter: I have taken a shit in the club. Regardless of coliform count, there's just too much psychological ick factor to deal with. Hell, even if I did have to go, I'd walk down the street to somewhere else (luckily, most of our SCs are in awesome downtown areas, and the ones in bad areas at least have lots of coffee shops & restaurants and the like around)
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Cashman1234He/Him - He’s a filthy pig. That’s him in VIP with another whore.
Doces: Good points. I mostly DATY my strippers OTC, not ITC, and most of us don't use the term "extras girl" to describe that. In addition, the consensus tuscl definition of extras seems to be that it's about you cumming (HJ, BJ, FS, etc), not DATY. These are not extras girls, IMO. I'm not just playing semantics: the important thing for me (psychologically, and risk-wise) is that she 1. hasn't fucked 4 other guys first (with the concurrent possibility of condom leaks, etc), 2. isn't fucking 4 guys a day on an ongoing basis ITC, with the concurrent increase in risk of herps, hpv, etc. even if a condom is used.
In addition, while I believe it's true that if she does daty with me, she does it with others (maybe many others, maybe just other regulars), I do think again this is somewhat self-limiting. She does DATY with a random customer in our militantly-no-extras, bouncer-patrolled club, there's a pretty high chance she'll get caught; as a regular customer at the club who gets VIP treatment from staff, it's no exaggeration to say that no bouncer has checked on me in the VIP in at least 2 years, probably more (usually they take 2-3 strolls through the VIP per song), so it does take away what is a very real risk for her.
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Doces300You can run but you will only die tired
Dolf: I've heard that from others, but I continue to negotiate because it's not the experience I've had. I wonder if the difference is: I rarely if ever let the stripper quote her price. Instead, I quote a price, and if she wants to counter-offer and it's still within my budget, I'll say yes. Perhaps even if we get to the same price, there's a psychological difference on her part between "I talked his price up and he accepted, I defeated him because he saw my value" and "He talked my price down and I had to take it, he doesn't value me". That's probably over-thinking things a bit, but my experiences negotiating have not been poor
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Doces300You can run but you will only die tired
Doces: I've had amazing and mediocre experiences at all pricepoints. My feeling is that as far as service, you can't really automatically expect anything just based on price alone. The explanation for the high price will be anything from "this is what I know I can get" to "it's so unpleasant to me that I won't do it for less" to "I know my worth" (that phrase, also used on SA and of course SW, is an instant tipoff to horrific GPS with concurrent poor service). Anyway, bottom line: I feel like you cannot assume ANYTHING about getting better service for a higher price.
Unlike shadow, I do negotiate, but I also have a bar I just won't go past -- and that bar is not just about affordability, it's also about (again) the fact that since there's no assumptions I can make about service levels, it's just crazy to pay more, when there's so many gorgeous enthusiastic young women who will take less.
Now if you have a direct conversation and KNOW there will be tangible extra service benefits (she's firm at $450, but for that price she'll spend the night), then you can make your decision on what those tangible extra benefits are worth to you. Without that -- you just can't make any assumptions of what service will be like and you should take a HARD pass without thinking twice if it's past your limit.
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Cashman1234He/Him - He’s a filthy pig. That’s him in VIP with another whore.
-->"and that's something I have never done in decades of stripping".
That's right bitches, surprise, I'm a stripper. Or, that was a typo. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader as to which is the right answer :)
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Cashman1234He/Him - He’s a filthy pig. That’s him in VIP with another whore.
I'm surprised so many guys admit to it. Not to lead us astray, but another difference between tuscl and SW: guys here will admit things that they know most guys will come down on.
My general rule is: I don't DATY strippers. However, my overriding rule is: rules are meant to be broken in extraordinary circumstances. Again, I "luckily" don't have the problem many of you guys have -- temptation to DATY a stripper who does extras -- and that's something I have never done in decades of stripping. I have, however, DATY'ed a very small number of no-extras ATF-level strippers (I can probably count the number on one hand, and have fingers left over). Just a few calculated risks with very high reward.
In general, I enjoy DATY, so there's no tension around "why would DATY a girl I'm paying, shouldn't she be paying me?" type questions -- it gives me pleasure to pleasure her, and yes, I realize in most cases she's likely pretending to like it. But I don't do it with extras girls at all, and only rarely break my rule for my very favorite ATFs