Have any of you guys ever found a stripper who will not negotiate her price for OTC? Just wondering, if her price is relatively high and non-negotiable what would your expectations be? Would you expect she would be cleaner, as not many will pay her price. Would you expect she just has GPS and will be a bitchy pain? Would you expect her to be better in bed for that price. Have any of you met this and did you pay her price?
I don't negotiate. I make an offer and if she wants more I just pass. If she did accept a price lower than what she wants it is doubtful that you would receive the value that you are looking for.
I'd generally pass on an otc dancer who had a non negotiable and high price. The fact that she's inflexible on price would lead me to think that she might be rigid with respect to what she will do otc - and I'd think she would start on time and end exactly on time as well.
I could be wrong - as some girls charge a higher rate because they are open to everything.
In most cases.... if her price is what you feel is high it may be because she really doesn’t need want to do OTC in the first place.
Example - I know a stripper who works in a club where ITC can be had. I offered OTC to her and she declined. Her reasoning was it’s too hard to set up a reliable sitter for her kid when she’s normally off work and she’s happy $$$ wise averaging her 2 - 3 VIP sessions a night on 3 nights of work a week. If she doesn’t make what she usually does one week she simply works an extra night.
Doces: I've had amazing and mediocre experiences at all pricepoints. My feeling is that as far as service, you can't really automatically expect anything just based on price alone. The explanation for the high price will be anything from "this is what I know I can get" to "it's so unpleasant to me that I won't do it for less" to "I know my worth" (that phrase, also used on SA and of course SW, is an instant tipoff to horrific GPS with concurrent poor service). Anyway, bottom line: I feel like you cannot assume ANYTHING about getting better service for a higher price.
Unlike shadow, I do negotiate, but I also have a bar I just won't go past -- and that bar is not just about affordability, it's also about (again) the fact that since there's no assumptions I can make about service levels, it's just crazy to pay more, when there's so many gorgeous enthusiastic young women who will take less.
Now if you have a direct conversation and KNOW there will be tangible extra service benefits (she's firm at $450, but for that price she'll spend the night), then you can make your decision on what those tangible extra benefits are worth to you. Without that -- you just can't make any assumptions of what service will be like and you should take a HARD pass without thinking twice if it's past your limit.
Depending on what the price is and what you will get out of the evening should determine if it is worth it to you.
She has a right to determine her value and you have the right to determine if you are willing to pay for it.
I also think what your itc experience with the dancer is should also play a role.
There is one dancer I would like to take otc but she hasn't accepted yet. My experiences with her itc would dictate I would be willing to pay a little more to see her otc and really have fun. We have not talked price yet, but If her price is too much and she would not negotiate, I would be happy to continue seeing her itc.
I rarely negotiate. Like SC, I make an offer or she quotes a price and either we agree or we don't. Occasionally we'll get to a second number, but usually I just say no thanks and move on. Like Sabra, I've had good and bad at low and high price points. There's almost no connection to how much I pay vs how much fun I have.
But, every time I've negotiated a price it's been bad to terrible. I don't know if its resentment as a result of the negotiation or if girls who haggle are just bad in bed or what, but its pretty consistent. The same is true ITC.
I agree w rh48hr. If she’s worth it to you she’s worth it. She’s not necuessarily saying she’s a 10, but she’s okay with getting less business and only going out w the guys who think she’s worth it, for whatever reason.
Dolf: I've heard that from others, but I continue to negotiate because it's not the experience I've had. I wonder if the difference is: I rarely if ever let the stripper quote her price. Instead, I quote a price, and if she wants to counter-offer and it's still within my budget, I'll say yes. Perhaps even if we get to the same price, there's a psychological difference on her part between "I talked his price up and he accepted, I defeated him because he saw my value" and "He talked my price down and I had to take it, he doesn't value me". That's probably over-thinking things a bit, but my experiences negotiating have not been poor
Whether it's OTC, or anything else in life, I have a range instead of a fixed price and if it's within my range I may accept depending on my mood, if it's not too far beyond my range I'll consider it depending on the situation - if it's way outside my range then I usually don't bother and actually get turned off.
Hard to say what kinda service one ultimately gets, but IME/IMO dancers charging a premium price are often all about the $$$ and zero about your experience.
Subraman - that's a good point. You aren't talking her down - which might tell her you don't think she's worth her rate. I've taken the price - and I've negotiated other aspects until I get to a value that seems to work with the quoted price.
Yeah, I think this exact same factor works on me, too. I dislike being the seller who is being talked down. Probably why I'm not an awesome businessman and need to stay in tech ;)
Anyway, my personal rule is: never let her quote her price. for myself I'm happier quoting my price and gettting bargained up
^^^^^but like Papi said, sometimes they offer some ridiculously high number just to see if you might bite. Not because they feel they are worth that much.
In Vegas a dancer offered me OTC and I asked how much? She said she felt $1000 was fair. I laughed and told her I'm not an NFL player. Then she said how much do you feel is fair. I said the most I'd pay is $500. She was like ok I can do that but only for you (such blatant SS btw). I take her number down but have no intention of calling as I just wanted to see how much she'd budge from her $1000. One offer chopped it in half and she was ready and willing. Makes me think if I kept negotiating I could have got it down to $300.
I have yet to do any OTC date but I do watch you guys talk about your experiences and learn from that. In the hopes that when my time comes I won't be swindled.
-->" I laughed and told her I'm not an NFL player."
I know you said you were just doing it to see if she'd come down, but that IS exactly the type of reaction that, if you'd actually taken the deal, nearly 100% of the time leads to poor service, IMO. Again, gut instinct, I feel devaluing them may work in business but works terribly on strippers, whereas an approach that reinforces how awesome she is but regrettably your budget is lower, tends to work well.
I do completely agree with you guys that many girls cite very high quotes just to see if a sucker will take it. Another reason not to approach the negotiation by asking how much she charges -- particularly if you're a no-negotiation guy
I think it’s better to negotiate w the experience and expectations, than price. And not at all if it’s in the ballpark. Also, I think it’s fair to ask her how she comes up w that number.
i think in any purchase of personal service that it's best to not try to negotiate the seller's price down. It's better to make the offer to buy and walk away if there isn't a fairly easy meeting of the minds. There is too great a chance of bad service if the seller feels she lost the negotiation.
Personal services involve personal feelings. If I negotiate a vehicle purchase down, the car won't feel bad and perform poorly for me. I don't think it works that way in p4p.
"... I have yet to do any OTC date but I do watch you guys talk about your experiences and learn from that. In the hopes that when my time comes I won't be swindled ..."
When negotiating for anything it's probably best to be prepared/educated as to what a fair-range is - in past OTC threads some PLs have started w/ high-prices they were not comfortable w/ nor comfortable maintaining and subsequently felt they were kinda "locked-in" b/c once they started paying her $X she most-likely would not be happy w/ "$X minus" in the future - i.e. negotiate a fair-deal from the beginning seems to be the way to go and that requires some thought and not just throwing out a random # and subsequently possibly wasting both parties' time.
You don’t negotiate with anything that is non-negotiable there are plenty of others why waste your time and energy, just find someone who is willing to give t you a fair deal, I mean really, why bother.
@Subraman point taken and that makes total sense. Would have been much better if I responded to the $1000 quote with 'that does sound fair for a beautiful woman like yourself. Unfortunately I will have to miss out as I don't have that kind of money.'. At least that possibly opens the door for her to lower the price without feeling insulted. And if not, no worries. I will remember that when I attempt to set up a real OTC date.
I have never found paying significantly more to be worth it. Outside of a few bigger urban markets, I find that $300-400 will create more than enough exclusivity. I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact that even $300 is a lot of money for a lot of people to blow on a one hour (or less) event.
In my local market, there are plenty of good looking dancers giving it up for $200 and some for as little as $150. I pay up a bit to get lower volume girls and I'm ok with that, but in those rare instances where I've dramatically overpaid, I found the girls to be uptight and really not a lot of fun.
All of the possible outcomes you present are possible. It depends on the dancer.
I don't like to haggle like I'm trying to buy a roadside trinket of some sort. If a dancer quotes a crazy price ($5,000/hour), I just tell her that's too rich for me and have a nice shift.
If she quotes a price that's high but not outlandish, I'll say "For that amount, I expect X, Y, and Z over the course of X hours." If she agrees, we're on. If not, I beg off and tell her to have a good shift.
Anytime a negotiation doesn't work out, I'll let the dancer know that she can always come back to me if her pricing changes.
Subra: I usually start with a price, but have tried both ways and found little correlation. I may try again sometime, but at this point I have enough options locally where I'm not negotiating with anyone new. I also never have negotiated any specific activity/acts and/or time in advance/in conjunction with price. For girls I've seen with an established price, I'll sometimes if they want to do something else. Maybe grab something to eat, or ask if shes planning to stay over. But its not like I'm saying for $D I'm expecting A,B,C acts for T hours. It's always just do you want to see me outside for $D?
I do occasionally negotiate downward after a few visits. Usually it takes the form of "this has been really fun, but I can't keep up this price" and quite often they'll drop the rates. Sometimes they do the same, "I know you're busy but I really could use the money, how about $d instead" I've only had one who tried to go up after a few visits, I turned her down and she was gracious but we both moved on.
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I could be wrong - as some girls charge a higher rate because they are open to everything.
Example - I know a stripper who works in a club where ITC can be had. I offered OTC to her and she declined. Her reasoning was it’s too hard to set up a reliable sitter for her kid when she’s normally off work and she’s happy $$$ wise averaging her 2 - 3 VIP sessions a night on 3 nights of work a week. If she doesn’t make what she usually does one week she simply works an extra night.
Unlike shadow, I do negotiate, but I also have a bar I just won't go past -- and that bar is not just about affordability, it's also about (again) the fact that since there's no assumptions I can make about service levels, it's just crazy to pay more, when there's so many gorgeous enthusiastic young women who will take less.
Now if you have a direct conversation and KNOW there will be tangible extra service benefits (she's firm at $450, but for that price she'll spend the night), then you can make your decision on what those tangible extra benefits are worth to you. Without that -- you just can't make any assumptions of what service will be like and you should take a HARD pass without thinking twice if it's past your limit.
I'd say most things in life are negotiable, but getting someone to the point where they're willing to compromise isn't automatic.
She has a right to determine her value and you have the right to determine if you are willing to pay for it.
I also think what your itc experience with the dancer is should also play a role.
There is one dancer I would like to take otc but she hasn't accepted yet. My experiences with her itc would dictate I would be willing to pay a little more to see her otc and really have fun. We have not talked price yet, but If her price is too much and she would not negotiate, I would be happy to continue seeing her itc.
But, every time I've negotiated a price it's been bad to terrible. I don't know if its resentment as a result of the negotiation or if girls who haggle are just bad in bed or what, but its pretty consistent. The same is true ITC.
Hard to say what kinda service one ultimately gets, but IME/IMO dancers charging a premium price are often all about the $$$ and zero about your experience.
Anyway, my personal rule is: never let her quote her price. for myself I'm happier quoting my price and gettting bargained up
In Vegas a dancer offered me OTC and I asked how much? She said she felt $1000 was fair. I laughed and told her I'm not an NFL player. Then she said how much do you feel is fair. I said the most I'd pay is $500. She was like ok I can do that but only for you (such blatant SS btw). I take her number down but have no intention of calling as I just wanted to see how much she'd budge from her $1000. One offer chopped it in half and she was ready and willing. Makes me think if I kept negotiating I could have got it down to $300.
I have yet to do any OTC date but I do watch you guys talk about your experiences and learn from that. In the hopes that when my time comes I won't be swindled.
I know you said you were just doing it to see if she'd come down, but that IS exactly the type of reaction that, if you'd actually taken the deal, nearly 100% of the time leads to poor service, IMO. Again, gut instinct, I feel devaluing them may work in business but works terribly on strippers, whereas an approach that reinforces how awesome she is but regrettably your budget is lower, tends to work well.
I do completely agree with you guys that many girls cite very high quotes just to see if a sucker will take it. Another reason not to approach the negotiation by asking how much she charges -- particularly if you're a no-negotiation guy
Personal services involve personal feelings. If I negotiate a vehicle purchase down, the car won't feel bad and perform poorly for me. I don't think it works that way in p4p.
When negotiating for anything it's probably best to be prepared/educated as to what a fair-range is - in past OTC threads some PLs have started w/ high-prices they were not comfortable w/ nor comfortable maintaining and subsequently felt they were kinda "locked-in" b/c once they started paying her $X she most-likely would not be happy w/ "$X minus" in the future - i.e. negotiate a fair-deal from the beginning seems to be the way to go and that requires some thought and not just throwing out a random # and subsequently possibly wasting both parties' time.
In my local market, there are plenty of good looking dancers giving it up for $200 and some for as little as $150. I pay up a bit to get lower volume girls and I'm ok with that, but in those rare instances where I've dramatically overpaid, I found the girls to be uptight and really not a lot of fun.
I don't like to haggle like I'm trying to buy a roadside trinket of some sort. If a dancer quotes a crazy price ($5,000/hour), I just tell her that's too rich for me and have a nice shift.
If she quotes a price that's high but not outlandish, I'll say "For that amount, I expect X, Y, and Z over the course of X hours." If she agrees, we're on. If not, I beg off and tell her to have a good shift.
Anytime a negotiation doesn't work out, I'll let the dancer know that she can always come back to me if her pricing changes.
I do occasionally negotiate downward after a few visits. Usually it takes the form of "this has been really fun, but I can't keep up this price" and quite often they'll drop the rates. Sometimes they do the same, "I know you're busy but I really could use the money, how about $d instead" I've only had one who tried to go up after a few visits, I turned her down and she was gracious but we both moved on.