discussion comment
7 years ago
-->"@Rickberge- with all the strippers I know personally, every single one has dated or had a fling with a customer they met in the club"
Agree that a lot of strippers have dated a customer, at least once. Many of them swear off ever dating a customer again after that, but it seems to be pretty common they do it at least once. To really shock you, I've seen this same conversation on StripperWeb, and if I recall correctly, lots of girls admitted dating a customer once, even some of the cuntier girls. In all cases I know about, the guy was a customer first -- that is, the by-rote PUA advice that "once you're a customer, you can never be anything else" seems to be exactly the opposite of what happens (which doesn't surprise me, the PUA are just trying to sell an interesting story to the most gullible guys around). I've gotten to be FWB with a stripper more than once, and was always either her CFPL or ATFPL first.
discussion comment
7 years ago
poleD: Not trying to give you a hard time! But these two statements seem to be directly contradictory:
-->"PL/stripper relationship= i love you for whats in your wallet"
-->"If a PL can make me laugh and feel like i am hanging out with a guy friend then mileage is def up"
Which is true? Or are they both true? The 2nd statement certainly makes it sound like customer personalities -- not just "he's not creepy, and he has money", but things like whether he can make you laugh or put you at ease, can determine mileage. That sounds dangerously like a customer with a more fun personality might get more -- which is anathema to tuscl orthodoxy.
I will tell you my personal theory: they are both true. Stripper/PL relationship is a business relationship at heart. If there's no business, there's no relationship. But, just like with ANY service provider & client relationship, a provider can enjoy interacting with one client over another ... In my line of work, there are definitely customers I enjoy interacting with more than others, and those customers DO get extra benefits, within reason -- I genuinely like some customers, even though if the business relationship disappeared, I'd never talk to them again. That doesn't mean I'm insincere in liking that customer -- just that business relationships are different than personal ones.
discussion comment
7 years ago
Two days in a row, and I've only done that a handful of times. Mind you, though, the strip club is normally a long-distance event for me, rather than a "stick my dick in a hole or two, then leave" thing... which means there's often drinking more than usual, which means it takes my body time to recover, plus I can't afford 5-7 hours for strip clubbing, too many days in a row.
discussion comment
7 years ago
-->"But just to add, I'm not really bothered too much by this. "
Ya, I think the relative pulchritude of the female form is always a fun thing to talk about, but there's so much slop in a simple 1-10 rating that any changes are just over-thinking.
BTW, for myself, a couple of years ago here I proposed a crowdsourced version of ratings as an alternative to 1-10 -- I did this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, and somewhat as a self-indulgent exercise in anal-retentive overthinking. But I actually find myself thinking in terms of my crowdsourced buckets instead of 1-10, when I look back on all the CFs and ATFs I've been in public with (it's crowdsourced! She can't get a rating until you're walking around in public! lol)...
discussion comment
7 years ago
Regarding 1-10, I think on the one hand, all of us think we're trying to keep our scale as consistent as possible. On the other, I don't think it's very controversial that your perception of quality will change depending on what's around. I would like to be as confident as Clubber in saying "an 8.5 anywhere is an 8.5 anywhere", but I'm pretty sure perceptions change.
In fact, I find the reverse sometimes happens for me. I have many times gone to a mediocre club and seen a girl I thought was attractive... then she switches to the club with the hottest women, and for some reason, she seems way hotter. Perhaps upping her game might account for some of this, but I definitely think being surrounded by other beautiful women makes beautiful women even more beautiful... I think the male mind gets overwhelmed by the kid-in-a-candy-store effect! This was so well-known and observed so often locally, that there's a specific term for this effect on the local SC forums.
discussion comment
7 years ago
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GACAUn-retired: Met my ATF. Married her. Divorcing her.
RTP-->" was never remotely close to saying yes, but they are bold in asking for funds."
When you think about it, there's very little downside for them, particularly if they aren't sticking around long-term. Apparently, they will very often find some PL or other who will give the $
One interesting thing I've noticed is that, specifically for these types of requests -- "can you give me an extra $40, because I got fined $40 for going OTC with you instead of making my shift" -- the girls very often convince themselves that this is fair. That it, THEY are not responsible for realizing that they are going to get fined for missing their shift, and baking that into their remuneration -- YOU are responsible, since they did it "for you". It is one of the most consistent things I've found with strippers -- nothing is their fault, and *you* are responsible for any negative consequences they hadn't thought about. I've heard girls whip themselves up into a lather over this type of thing. "It's only fair, since ...". As we've noted over and over, just a lack of personal responsibility that may go hand-in-glove in why some of the girls have few other options other than stripping in the first place
discussion comment
7 years ago
I have some suggestions, but first: do you need just a mover, or both a mover and packer? And are you okay with it that afterwards, your couch smells like Indira Gandhi's thong?
discussion comment
7 years ago
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GACAUn-retired: Met my ATF. Married her. Divorcing her.
They "hey" text is not always followed by a request for a favor. But requests for favors, are always preceded by a "hey" text :)
Super manipulative -- most people start out their text with their topic matter ("Hey baby,when can I see you!"). She's starting with just "hey" because she knows that if she just hits you with her real topic ("Can you lend me $200 to get through rent this month?"), you'll probably just ignore it. So she hits you with the "hey", and now when you text back, which you will, when she makes her awkward request, she knows you have to answer back. This technique isn't just used by strippers, I've noticed a few young people in my life (e.g., a niece) use this technique, too
'course, sometimes a "hey" is just a "hey" -- like I said, it's not always followed by an awkward favor request, but awkward favor requests are all preceded by "hey"
discussion comment
7 years ago
If you're confused about "negotiable", you'll be really confused about what I say next: you should completely ignore the girls' Expectation field. They are meaningless, and IME a Substantial girl is just as likely to take my $300 offer as a Minimal or Negotiable girl. Best thing I did for myself is just stop even checking that field, except to let them know in my initial contact message that I can't meet their $10,000/month expectation. My advice is to offer all girls exactly the same thing: what you're willing to pay for them
discussion comment
7 years ago
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GACAUn-retired: Met my ATF. Married her. Divorcing her.
Send her back a dick pic. She'll understand.
discussion comment
7 years ago
Alec: although not exactly the same reasoning, those are my same conclusions. I am completely uninterested in being romantically involved in a stripper, it's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy (twentyfive) :) A number of my ATF relationships turned more SD/SB, and those were pretty great
discussion comment
7 years ago
I find that often, I'm in strippers' phones as "Subraman (PITA)". I have no idea how the girls know I love hummus and falafel.
discussion comment
7 years ago
25: well, I think you're making nice progress here in group :) If what you're saying is: many tusclers have come up with a one-dimensional and unrealistic model of stripper behavior, possibly as a defense mechanism as a result of a previous emotional injury, I agree with that.
I also, of course, agree that many of us here (me included) have gotten conned by a stripper at some point or other, agree that if the stripper manipulated and encouraged it that it's unethical, and understand why the defense mechanism exists. I'm just pointing out that the "stripper as not a real human" model isn't a realistic one. Humans can have relationships where the foundation is the business relationship, but still "like" the person -- even though, if the business relationship dissolves, that is the end of things.
discussion comment
7 years ago
The most common answer is C.
discussion comment
7 years ago
-->"The simple test of whether a dancer “really” likes you - is to stop paying. If the dancer still wants to keep seeing you - then there’s a possibility she might find you less despicable than other 45 year old perverts."
It's not just a simple test, I think it's the only test... beyond that, I think it's best to assume that the girls are better at playing this game than you are, and her acting beats your bullshit detector every time; the only way to know what's what is to change the rules.
That said, all of this hinges on this weird concept guys have of "really likes" (and I realize you put it in quotes because you probably see this, too). It's like some people have this odd one-dimensional concept of people where they do something for money, or they like you, but there's no intermixing, ever. As I alluded to above, every person I know who has customers, likes some customers more than others... that doesn't mean the basis of the relationship isn't that it's a business relationship, and that if that business relationship was severed, that would end things. But except for folks where the business relationship is one-time and short-lived (toll collectors, used car salesmen, fast food cashiers, etc), people like some customers better than others. Speaking for myself, there are definitely customers I like and enjoy interacting with more than others, and those customers I like certainly get minor benefits.
All this backbending some guys do to try to explain why a stripper did something that's un-business-like, is often more easily explained by occam's razor as, "eh, she likes you as a customer" (or, alternatively, isn't as revolted by you as by her other customers). A stripper can do that without having personal feelings or wanting a customer to become her boyfriend or any other over-romantic silliness.
discussion comment
7 years ago
-->"Still doing that bottom shelf booze thing? You do realize that the cost difference between rot gut and something decent is often nominal, no?"
I was actually just joking there ... with OTC, I get decent stuff, and sometimes downright great stuff, if I think she'll appreciate it. In the club, it's the opposite, I still stick with rotgut, since the cost difference is huge, especially if you'll be doing (say) 5 or 6 shots each. For example, in my fave club, during the slowest dayshifts (e.g., Tuesday afternoon), bottom shelf shots are $3.50 each, anything else starts at $13.50 each and rapidly goes up. So, 3 rounds of 2 shots each, with tip, is either around $30, or over $100, and chances are we're doing more than 3 rounds. $50 for alcohol total for 5 shots each, is well within my total $100 food & alcohol budget; $200 for somewhat better stuff isn't.
discussion comment
7 years ago
-->"@Subra- do people at the trendy bar look at you funny when you walk in with a young hot girl?"
That might be happening, I'm not sure, I'm usually pretty fixated on her and don't think I particularly notice those types of reactions.
discussion comment
7 years ago
^^^ Please tell me that after a shag, you say "Oh, behave!"
discussion comment
7 years ago
^^^ You think anyone is intimidated by such a sweet guy with such nice eyes?
discussion comment
7 years ago
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flagoonerEverything written by this member is a fact.
Where guys whose mothers didn't breastfeed them, go to exchange pics of fat chicks
discussion comment
7 years ago
-->"I also wonder how many of those SA girls are actually also strippers, escorts or other sex workers. I have browsed through SA a few times in my area and I spotted a few strippers that I knew, including one who I used to take OTC for less than $200. I strongly suspect that the college girl angle is as overplayed on SA as it is in some strip clubs, lol"
I don't know how many SA girls are strippers, but IME nearly all strippers are SA girls... or rather, a huge % of strippers have AT LEAST created an SA account and spent a little time seeing what's there, although many of them give up after a few weeks when they realize it takes work and that some $10k/month sugardaddy won't just fall into their laps. That said, there's still an angle to play ITC -- as I've reported multiple times here, I've been in the club and "let slip" that I'm on SA looking for a sugarbaby, I see her eyes momentarily turn into dollar signs like in the cartoons, and the next thing I know we're on our phones showing each other our profiles, and she's saying, "we should meet up!!!". Not that asking for OTC is a big deal for me, but it's nice to have her asking for it instead.
I also am sure that many girls who claim to be college girls on SA, aren't. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure a good number that I've met are.
-->"I won't even get into how much work it would be to spend hours listening to one of these girls prattle on while having to pretend that I'm interested in what they have to say."
Obviously, you and I are opposites here, I can listen to them prattle on for hours, as long as it's punctuated by shots of bottom-shelf whiskey and plenty of groping. That said, it is easily possible to use SA basically as a slightly-higher-class Backpage -- huge number of girls there are perfectly fine with just "let's meet in the hotel, do our business, then go our separate ways", many girls are not really looking to be classic style sugarbabies
discussion comment
7 years ago
-->" it's like real estate. Location, location, location."
No doubt. I've been offering as low as $250, and allowing myself to get talked up to as much as $350 (which is higher than my previous $300 limit). I live in one of the most expensive areas in the country, so it's been interesting to see how people in lower-cost areas all seem to be paying much more than me. Of course, this is somewhat self-selecting: there have been a bunch of SA women who insisted on $500-ish as a minimum, and I've let them all walk . But I've gotten bites from some very attractive young women at $300-$350... What I think may be going on is that with the cost of living being so outrageous, some of the girls will just take whatever they can get, I dunno.
I do think we may be paying similar rates if you consider the entire meeting: just like OTCs, mine are always preceded by food and drinks, and that can easily run into several hundreds on top of the $300 allowance. So a date might be: $300 allowance + $200-$300 for food & drinks + $60-$120 for a good hotel via Recharge (hotel rates are unaffordable here without Recharge, I'd be stuck going to hot tubs or ghetto hotels otherwise)
discussion comment
7 years ago
A, then off to a fun trendy bar, then C. I tend to play things by ear, but a typical OTC for me is: restaurant for great food & alcohol, followed by a cool bar, possibly followed by another strip club, then back to the hotel room when we're crazy drunk & horny to fuck it all off. It has to all be fun and exciting for me, and as a "foodie" (fucking hate that word) and lover of cool bars and strip clubs, the entire agenda is awesome to me.
No to B and D, FUCK NO to E. I don't do anything that isn't exciting or fun for me -- no movies (with one notable exception), NEVER shopping, no sporting event.
F in rare cases. Trips are reserved for ATFs
No G. No interest at all in "fuck and leave", none whatsoever
H -- there are many cool fun bars in a metropolitan area, from quirky dive bars to high end mixology bars to everything in between. If I were in my 20s, I'd be heading with my buddies to the city every weekend to hit them all. But at this point, with rare exceptions, the only time I get to explore those bars is: on civilian dates, on SA dates, and on OTC. So, fuck yes, I use all of those occasions as reasons to explore those bars (plus, strippers are fucking fun to drink with); even better if the stripper lives in the city and can introduce me to a bar I haven't been to
discussion comment
7 years ago
Footman-->"So anyone ever gotten to the point that they believe a stripper legitimately likes them, or do you always tend to stay on the side of not believing what nice things she says about you?"
My broad thinking is along the lines of Papi: "If a guy can get with similar women who are not strippers, then possible strippers also like him"
That said, I also agree with JS69-->"The only stripper that I believe ever had any type of real feelings for me is the one who fucked me for free many times". That is, I've had strippers turn to what are essentially friends with benefits. Pretty sure they all liked me on some level.
Of course, all of this hinges on what you mean by "legitimately likes them". Like them how? Like a BF or FWB? That's not happening very often, unless you fit into Papi's class of guys who score 22-year-old 9s in real life, too. Beyond that, like every person in the world except for those who only deal with their customers for short periods of time (e.g., McDonalds cashiers, used car salesmen, toll collectors), strippers like some customers more than others -- the relationship is still a business one, but just like you probably like some of your customers more than others, so do they
discussion comment
7 years ago
"Yes, we've been importing most of our Al and steel from our mortal enemy -- Canada."
It's about time those frozen fucks pay the piper for all those cold fronts they send down here