The great Mileage debate...

In short, it’s a business where better customers get premium service.

ding ding ding lol

Right on Poledancer. Business is business. I have a women at home (who also likes the strip club) and I’ll share my feelings with her. At the club whether I’m alone or with my GF it’s just for fun. She had never been to a club before and the first thing I told her is don’t ever think a dancer likes you. No offense to them, there just doing there job and if you keep that mindset this can be fun. If you don’t your going to get all fucked up. Keep posting. Your a great read.

normal relationship= i love you for whats in your heart
PL/stripper relationship= i love you for whats in your wallet

I’m a big dork.. I think I might enjoy the romantic fantasy more than some. I never sell or pawn gifts. I might even prefer nice gifts to cash bc I can’t bring myself to ‘waste’ money. I’m comfortable with customers expressing light hearted romantic feelings for me, as long as they enjoy it as part of the fantasy, and they aren’t insecure or possessive. That totally negates any fun sweet gestures. Many of my customers are married, or not in a place where they want a real relationship, but they enjoy the courting. Some guys just love the romantic gentleman role, and really appreciate making women feel special. I don’t take it to heart, but I like it too. I like playing the appreciative lady role. Not damsel in distress, but just enjoying that someone wants to make me feel special. A customer recently sent me flowers to the club. It did make me super happy. I’m sure it bumped him up on my list more than the money would have.

poleD: Not trying to give you a hard time! But these two statements seem to be directly contradictory:

-->"PL/stripper relationship= i love you for whats in your wallet"

-->"If a PL can make me laugh and feel like i am hanging out with a guy friend then mileage is def up"

Which is true? Or are they both true? The 2nd statement certainly makes it sound like customer personalities -- not just "he's not creepy, and he has money", but things like whether he can make you laugh or put you at ease, can determine mileage. That sounds dangerously like a customer with a more fun personality might get more -- which is anathema to tuscl orthodoxy.

I will tell you my personal theory: they are both true. Stripper/PL relationship is a business relationship at heart. If there's no business, there's no relationship. But, just like with ANY service provider & client relationship, a provider can enjoy interacting with one client over another ... In my line of work, there are definitely customers I enjoy interacting with more than others, and those customers DO get extra benefits, within reason -- I genuinely like some customers, even though if the business relationship disappeared, I'd never talk to them again. That doesn't mean I'm insincere in liking that customer -- just that business relationships are different than personal ones.

sub thats a great way to put it

Maybe Im wrong or not seeing things correctly but is a stripper the only professional in where you cant date the customer?

I mean if you are a bank teller and a customer comes in, is there some blockage in your mind that says "no attraction hes just a customer"??
...
In my opinion, strippers/dancers are actually real people with real feelings and emotions. I dont see whats the big deal with a stripper actually liking a customer to the point of dating them.

Great points, dancers. I've always called the SC a pseudo-social environment. I don't know if that's the correct word to use but there's definitely a social interaction to it along with social customs and unspoken expectations. I also agree with subra in that without the business relationship the social relationship doens't exist either. But we can both get our itches scratched.

Ya know. I can call myself a PL. And I don't mind if the guys on here are calling me a PL because they are also. But doesn't it sting just a little more when a dancer calls you a PL ????

“is a stripper the only professional in where you cant date the customer?”

No, law and psychiatry spring to mind.

@Rickberge- with all the strippers I know personally, every single one has dated or had a fling with a customer they met in the club

“But doesn't it sting just a little more when a dancer calls you a PL ????”

I think she’s using it as an affectionate term.

Great points although most guys here, at least the more experienced ones, should already know this. I have only fallen “in love” with one stripper but even then I knew with complete certainty that all we had, or would ever have, is a fun business relationship. It’s a great fantasy but there is tremendous risk for both parties if the guy (either through inexperience or desperation) mistakes a great fantasy for reality.

-->"@Rickberge- with all the strippers I know personally, every single one has dated or had a fling with a customer they met in the club"

Agree that a lot of strippers have dated a customer, at least once. Many of them swear off ever dating a customer again after that, but it seems to be pretty common they do it at least once. To really shock you, I've seen this same conversation on StripperWeb, and if I recall correctly, lots of girls admitted dating a customer once, even some of the cuntier girls. In all cases I know about, the guy was a customer first -- that is, the by-rote PUA advice that "once you're a customer, you can never be anything else" seems to be exactly the opposite of what happens (which doesn't surprise me, the PUA are just trying to sell an interesting story to the most gullible guys around). I've gotten to be FWB with a stripper more than once, and was always either her CFPL or ATFPL first.

I met my ex husband dancing. I wouldn’t date a regular, or a monger, but I’d date a guy I met as a customer. Shit, it’s not like I meet guys when I’m at the grocery store in my sweats, which is pretty much the only other place I go.

I see dancers "dating" custies as similar to a salesman/businessman taking a client out to dinner to further cement/enhance their business relationship - IMO most dancer/custy "dates" are not based on any romantic feelings towards the custy and they date the custy more b/c the custy wants it rather than the dancer wanting it; almost as something they feel they gotta/should do (the dancer kinda sees-it as in her best intere$t to please the custy) - I'm sure some dancers may find it fun and have a good-time, but IMO that's more of the exception with the norm being trying to please the custy whom is the one that wants the date - this is specially so if the age difference is 10+ years, IMO.

^ i.e. there may be a fair-amount of stripper/custy "dating", but most of it seems to be an exten$ion of ITC P4P

Rickberge posted: In my opinion, strippers/dancers are actually real people with real feelings and emotions. I dont see whats the big deal with a stripper actually liking a customer to the point of dating them.

That's SJG's entire theory. I don't think it's a big deal. If SHE genuinely likes the customer and comes on to him then cool. But for guys like SJG it's him convincing himself that whoever he picks out, all he has to do is treat her like a civilian, feed her cash, and initiate a front room makeout session. Afterwards she will immediately be willing to jump into bed with him for free afterwards. Funny stuff.

Poledancer83 one question: out of 100 customers, about how many do you meet that genuinely interested you enough to actually consider pursuing a normal relationship outside the club? My guess is, the ratio is quite low. Probably takes more than 100 customers to even find one lol.

Whenever dealing w/ people, there are some people that are easier to deal with than others, or whose personality one finds easier dealing with.

There are certain dancers I find attractive/desirable but I don't bother w/ them b/c of their personality (GPS; low-mileage; moody; w/e) - similarly for some dancers the juice may worth the squeeze as some say around here - some dancers find it too-much work/trouble dealing w/ clingy/needy custies that want the equivalent of a GF (i.e. want/expect/think the dancer feels for them what they feel for the dancer)

I think the conversation about dating is a dead end ... in 99.99% of cases, this is a business relationship, and that is actually a good thing (at least to me). Every PL who has dated a stripper tends to swear off it and warn others about it; every stripper who has dated a PL tends to swear off it and warn others about it. Business relationship is good! Dating, not so good.

Even with this all being a business relationship, we know that dancers will like some customers more than others, and customers they like can (and probably will) be rewarded with more mileage than those they don't. That's great! The best advice still remains: stay focused on the customer experience you're after, rather than worrying about what she's feeling, and if you continually have trouble getting the customer experience you're after, change something.

^ fuck you jackie


But yeah - that's good advice

^^^Sounds like someone walked you to the door. ;)

So far it seems none of the comments are about "mileage" but more about dating or trying to date a stripper or a stripper dating a customer.

My takeaway from all this: Every stripper is different. Every PL is different. But they're all human, to some degree anyway. Who really knows why a particular PL will be drawn to a stripper or vice versa? And in that extremely rare case where the attraction is genuinely mutual (more rare on the stripper's side of course), and not necessarily only physically, even especially not only physically, just maybe something real (beyond ITC fantasy) can come out of it. But you can't really explain it, it's complicated (yeah i know what i did...).

Okay, after ruminating on this a little bit (here we go again), I have noticed that many if not most strippers will not play the same way with all PLs. There are any number of reasons (and they are legion) why a stripper might not do much with a particular customer. Cheap/poor/stingy/timewaster (probably biggest one), bad hygiene, creepy/bad vibes, not respectful, rough or overbearing hands, etc. The dancer could just be having a bad day or moment at the time, PMSing, tired or who knows. She's just not having it regardless of the PL, although she might suck it up, npi, for her most valuable regulars. She might not even play the same with all regulars. Some are just more "demanding" in different ways.

There might even be a PL that has none of these negative qualities, but maybe the dancer is already in a relationship and is self-aware enough to consider this PL "dangerous" not in a physical way or even a get in trouble at work type of way, but this PL is "fire" to her and she recognizes it and even despite hot and heavy sessions, she is in no rush or even reluctant to push things further and maybe even cull it back a bit. Just a hypothetical. As i said there are any number of reasons, a dancer won't want to commit a decent amount of time or energy into any type of relationship even ITC, even if it might make sense from a business perspective.

^ you seem to be suggesting that dancers will delay instant gratification for their greater needs and wellbeing.. I don’t know ab that one. :/

I appreciate the different perspective BJ and Pole bring to this discussion. I have a "friends with benefits" relationship with my atf. I like her, but never romance her. We watch sports together. We get high together. I make her laugh. We shoot the shit about life and family. We smoke weed together. CR's with her are fun, but there are others that I see more for the end result than the hanging out part. If she has a well paying customer or customers when I get there I never, ever would bitch about being ignored and am glad she can make serious money. She is courteous to me in return and always asks if I am with someone else before she sits. Did we do a CR last time with tip? Yup. Was it fun? Yup. Was it worth it to her? It must have been, but I know that she could have ignored me and made 10x as much in the 3 hours we hung out. Its been going on 12 years so apparently we both enjoy it, but she is way too smart to be doing it for the money I give her.

Poledancer, thank you for posting this.

But from my perspective it is a mistake to get into a situation which is just money for sex.

I understand that sex workers have to do it this way, because that is how most of their clients think, and it makes it faster and more certain. But for myself I'm always going to use what devices are available to get the girl off script. Its in how I talk to her and what I talk to her about. I let her see right off that I don't perceive her as being any different from any other women. I don't discuss this, but it is obvious. Its just like I met her in a regular night club, or even in the super market check out line. I always treat all women as civilians, and in all situations.

And then if it can get intimate early on, when no commitments have been made, that is best. So in strip clubs its that front room makeout session. In AMP's its the early words and getting her DFKing.

To do that, both people have to get shifted from the sympathetic nervous system ( fight or flight ) to the para-sympathetic ( feed and breed ).

Now most action comes from the sympathetic. So this has to be different, just have to some how let it happen.

After this shift has occurred, the girl will be more reasonable about money. But more importantly, the money is no longer really buying anything. It is not being used to persuade her to do anything she would not be otherwise perfectly happy to do. So it becomes more like a civilian first date.

So the money is a show of care and concern, and of respect. It is what allows her to be able to be there, all dolled up and on call. Without that money, she would have to be doing some other job, like say a total waste, the finance sector.

So money is expected, but it is no longer seen as her primary motivation.

So this looks and service level issue, as I see it, it no longer really applies. The money has already started to become more like mistress maintenance, than fee for service.

SJG

I have a slightly different take than the general sentiment here in comparing the club experience to other business relationships. I do agree that it is a business relationship 99% of the time but I think strip club relationships are different than business in at least some respects.

In my work experience, I can’t give better treatment to some customers than others. I need to do a good job for everyone if I take on the work. It’s true that I like some customers better than others but there can’t be two tiers of service. There are customers I enjoy playing golf with or having a beer with. I wouldn’t want to socialize with some customers. But I can’t reserve better service for the golf partners or beer buddies because that of that. There are standards of competence that are generally in existence in business relationships, particularly professional personal service businesses, and one can get sued if one falls short of that standard. A doctor can not give a patient top notch medical care because they are friends and give so-so medical care to a patient who is not a friend. A doctor needs to get an “A” every time with every patient.

Strip clubs are different. It’s all masks and shadows to begin with and the relationships can be as fluid as anyone wants them to be. No one is going to sue a stripper if she gives a low mileage dance in a high mileage club. But what she is selling is the illusion of the relationship itself. As much as we TUSCLers like to act hard boiled, our feel good emotions come into play as much as our physical response. If we can handle it, we can enjoy that experience while clearly understanding that the illusion ends as soon as we are done paying for our dances.

Obviously, I can’t speak for how a stripper might perform for a customer she likes better but I think we can confuse ourselves at times when comparing the club experience to other business relationships. Yes, it is a business relationship. It’s very transactional. But it’s cloudier than that for everybody. If that wasn’t the case we wouldn’t have a discussion board here.

^^^^ So you think that the women who work in strip clubs, and especially those who do FS-ITC and FS-OTC are different from other women?

So you think they run on rechargeable batteries? Do they have built in reverse ATM machines?

SJG

“is a stripper the only professional in where you cant date the customer?”
Teachers also have to keep their hands off their clients ( in theory).

mileage is ymmv.

@ SJG, since they are the same to you, do you treat civil girls like strippers? I’m just imaging you handing a girl cash throughout dinner.

Lol! ^^^

"Mileage for me depends on alot of factors. Speaking to mileage without mentioning money and looks is like asking someone to explain buying a car without talking about looks or dependability."

1. Money
2. Looks, a.k.a. would the dancer actually want to fuck you if strippering and profit weren't involved.
3. Everything else

Fair enough as a summary of 1000s of TUSCL posts. Is the debate part about whether or not it's "real"?

BJ99, wrote, "... since they are the same to you, do you treat civvie girls like strippers?..."

Very good post, very funny too.

Well, in TJ I plan to be taking putas to eat. I'll pay them something up front comparable to session money. Then they get more money when we actually do our session.

Mexico is a third world nation, and so the decent wage employment options for women are basically only two. But the money I give them would quickly be adapted into mistress maintenance, and then into a generous payment for her photo modelling session.

In the US, I don't think most strippers really need to be paid for dinner. But no matter, as I plan to be minimizing car keys and wallet dating. Instead want the modelling sessions behind closed doors.

But I think what you are really asking is if I treat strippers like civvies, am I also treating civvies like strippers? We had Ranukam here, a couple of GF's complaining, "Your treating me like a stripper.

Well what i mean is that I treat all women in a 100% civilian manner. Money is just a show of care and concern, and to clarify my ownership of the pictures we make.

On the whole though I still am not interested in conventional relationships. Building an organization which will change such things substantially. And the women I know will get inducted into it. The benefits for them are far greater than with any of the standard social options, like that nightmare known as marriage.

SJG

The Principle of Satan in Thelema
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbi2acwV…

Led Zeppelin, 1969 Danish TV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-WSbMW7…