discussion comment
6 years ago
I, too, think the unpaid initial meet-and-greet is the best filter. Not perfect, I've run into some escorts who evidently look at a quick initial meeting as the cost of doing business, but no big deal. It certainly weeds out most escorts, all scam artists, and all GPS girls. I've taken to offering the unpaid meet and greet, and if she prefers, an option immediately thereafter to have our first arrangement-date *if* we both are interested and have time. I've found that offering that as an option 1. is not enough for the scam and GPS girls, 2. is a requirement to get the regular-but-desperate-girls who really need the $$$ right away (in an area where a single apartment can cost $4k/moonth, I get that).
The extortion strategy is:
- Extortions are usually preceded by an escalating series of test-steps -- block her immediately once that starts happening (e.g., the moment she asks for $ before you've met)
- If somehow I didn't recognize that I failed the initial test, cut off communication -- if "she" can't get messages to you, she can't scare you into doing something dumb
discussion comment
6 years ago
Last time a stripper did that to me, we had 6 more weeks of winter
discussion comment
6 years ago
^^ Ya, there HAVE been stories about guys who turn down a girl because she was the first to approach, and then ended up hugely regretting it when they couldn't get her attention at all the rest of the night. Those guys have the opposite lesson: if an awesome girl approaches you, take advantage of it right away.
If a girl is an obvious Door Vulture, get rid of her. But I wouldn't unconditionally turn down a girl that comes over to me quickly. The main lesson is: the moment you get that first small-but-unreasonable request, it's time to cut your losses
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"My new dancer confided that she instead told her I was basically a chump and to charge me $15 or $20/dance.Like the horny, time-constrained dolt I was that night, I agreed to the $15 (and I was going to tip her anyway). However, once underway, she expertly blocked me except for superficial touches.
-->"My new dancer confided that she instead told her I was basically a chump and to charge me $15 or $20/dance."
-->"Reminder to self - Never get LDs/VIP from the first girl who greets me at a club, especially if it's before I've barely sat down."
So, I think the lesson here is a little different! I mean, yes, the Door Vultures are very often horrible ROBs who specialize in ripping off guys who haven't got their bearings yet. But, really, the big lesson here seems exactly the same to me as with the recent post about the guy who got ripped off and blackmailed by a girl on SA:
- It's easy for us to want to give in to an initial small, unreasonable demand/request, especially once we're slightly invested. That's almost always the mistake that kicks off all the others -- rather than buy us what we want, it signals to the girl that we're a spineless pushover who is begging to be relieved of his money.
- We also imagine that if we refuse that first request (the up-charge in your case, the $40-for-nothing in the SA case), the girl won't like us, or it will cause drama -- instead, the best thing you can do is refuse even that first small request. The girls otherwise lose whatever little respect that had for you in the first place, and it's their signal to move to phase 2 (overcounting the dances in your case, more sinister action in the SA case)
- Also, avoid the Door Vultures :)
None of this meant as a slam, of course, every single one of us has been taken advantage of by strippers at some point or other, and you made a pretty low-$ mistake! But man, SCing is easier once you refuse the first unreasonable request no matter how small
discussion comment
6 years ago
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founderslip a dollar in her g-string for me
FTS: given someone who already has a VIP, what type of information would you consider paying for? I'm struggling to answer that question, but I might be lacking imagination here. I suppose I could imagine guys paying extra for more precise information of the type that is discouraged on tuscl currently (e.g., Candy at Club Vulva gives BJ for $200). Beyond that, given the level of YMMV, my gut feel about precise information is that the current level of detail gets us to all the significant digits, and anything else might be non-significant digits
discussion comment
6 years ago
The most in-demand girl is not always the hottest, from what I've observed. She's attractive, mind you, but she is great at drawing attention to herself, and is an expert at obtaining and keeping regulars. Sometimes I like this most in-demand girl, but often I don't. Anyway, most in-demand girl has lots of regulars; if you're not a regular, catch her at the beginning of her shift so that you can become a regular, or hope you're lucky enough to catch her between regulars mid-shift.
discussion comment
6 years ago
![]()
founderslip a dollar in her g-string for me
-->"I wonder.. If for some reason, founder would like more ppl to pay for membership, how could he incentivize that, while still encouraging reviews?"
BJ, I don't know of any sex industry site that has pulled that off. The reviews are ultimately what people will pay for, so the site's lifeblood is encouraging review-writing and rewarding it. I'm trying to think of, given I have a VIP from a review, what else I might pay for, and am having trouble thinking of anything. The other ways to increase revenue that I've seen are advertisements, which we already have. And, lastly, just more ways to bring eyeballs to the site, which potentially would increase the number of reviews, increase the number of paying VIPs, and increase the amount of revenue generated from ads. Again, the other revenue-generator I've seen from sex industry sites is classifieds, which is now a slippery slope, I suppose
discussion comment
6 years ago
![]()
founderslip a dollar in her g-string for me
More seriously, I can't see how PMs for VIPs only would help the site in any way. Unlike reviews, PMs aren't such an asset that someone would write a review or pay for a VIP just for that; meanwhile, it could annoy the actual VIPs, who now can't even PM anyone who is not also a VIP.
As minnow suggests, I can see some minimum bar being set, I suppose -- 1 article published or 1 review or 20 forum comments, say, if drive-by PMing is some sort of problem on the site
discussion comment
6 years ago
![]()
founderslip a dollar in her g-string for me
On that note, PMing BJ an ascii rendering of my dick before I lose the ability. 8=======D on its way!
PS well, okay, 8===D
discussion comment
6 years ago
Cash: I definitely agree that it's really unfortunate he ran into someone like this, and obviously anyone can make a mistake. But without bashing the OP, I think it's important to understand this was a series of mistakes:
Using Paypal: Obvious tragic mistake that anyone could have made, but:
Paying her the initial $40 for nothing, instead of blocking her when she asked for it: established him as a mark
Paying the additional $25, instead of blocking her when she asked for THAT: established him as an *easy* mark, since the request had clearly gone to outrageous
Staying in communication with her when she asked him to pay her phone bill: showed her that her easy mark was no longer going to shell out for nothing, so she should move to phase 2.
I would submit that, given the number of signs spencer did not understand how to interpret, even if he hadn't made the mistake of using paypal, she eventually would have manipulated him into making a different mistake. Root problem is not recognizing the con and permanently ceasing communication immediately. Then there never would have been any chance to goof up by using paypal. No bashing here (really!), just think it's important to understand the lesson, and that lesson is NOT just about paypal
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"Omg.. just hand me some money, and we’ll make out in then front room.. ;P"
Don't do it twentyfive! She'll hit you with the boner fee after, and you'll owe an extra $1.50
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"She sends more pics/vids, thanks me, etc. Then when she's "at the store" she says the total was close to $60 so can I send a little more. I send $25 more, we are now at $65. "
I should also mention, this is also textbook -- you paid her $ for nothing, so she knows she's got a live one. She pushes a little more to see exactly how much of a live one you are... paying even more for nothing pretty much told her (or more likely, them -- a criminal ring that does) that she should move the scam forward, you'll take anything. Although the initial $40 should never have happened, huge alarm bells should have be ringing at this point
discussion comment
6 years ago
Like gmd, I can't remember a single time a girl asked for a tip MID-DANCE. Is this happening often to you, Dirk?
My general rule is that I tip for extraordinary service. Not just good, not just better than average. In general, that means that I would NOT tip a low-mileage girl just for pushing herself past her own limits and giving me an average-mileage dance. Of course, every rule is meant to be broken, and at least in theory, I might imagine a special case where I'm highly motivated to encourage things along (brand new dancer, smoking hot)
-->" I appreciate that they were willing to do "more" with me, but they're less likely to get repeat dances from me in the future. "
I -- and I gather most PLs -- have been there where we were not happy the girl asked for a tip, but we gave her a tip anyway and just expressed our displeasure by not doing dances with her in the future. But I always felt like a bitch doing that -- I mean, if I were so annoyed that I wouldn't ever do dances with her again, why did I tip her? Answer: I was intimidated, or afraid of her reaction, or didn't want her to not like me. Or, in other words, I was being a little bitch. These days, I am pretty hardcore invested in my rule #2 of strip clubbing: Don't be a little bitch. Any girl asks me for a tip that I wasn't already about to give her on my own, I turn her down: I do say it with a smile, and with a respectful tone, but also with direct eye contact and confidant voice & posture. I've never had a negative reaction, and often the girl just takes it in stride, which shows you that it is not personal for them, just a technique to maximize their revenue, and in fact I WAS being a little bitch by simply going along.
discussion comment
6 years ago
Okay, I can't resist:
-->"We continue to text/sext throughout the day some. She's "in class" so the texts are spread apart some. She keeps mentioning wanting to meet, so she can get some $$. I continue to tell her no, I can't. She asks a few more times for grocery $$."
This is where I block her. The moment a girl asks for $ for nothing, 100% of the time she is a scammer. Not necessarily a blackmail scammer, as you were unfortunate enough to run into. But if it were me in this story, the moment she asked for money, I'd block her and that would have been that. Doesn't matter how pretty her pic is, doesn't matter how well we got along during messaging so far. Makes for a far more boring story though :)
I tend to immediately block, or at least cease contact for:
- Asking for $ outside of the context of a meet
- Her very first response is to ask for my number
- Her very first response is to ask to meet tonight
The 2nd & 3rd responses aren't necessarily scammers, but they do usually tend to be pros, and I'm not on SA to meet backpage escorts (no judgement, nothing wrong with it, and I realize most tuscl guys have exactly been using SA as an alternative backpage. But I like things to feel a little bit more SD/SB than escort/john, so I like the girls who are a little more cautious)
discussion comment
6 years ago
AGain, I have seen what BJ is describing -- the best looking girls, on busy nights, either bump up the price of dances, or more commonly, go VIP-only and refuse to do lapdances. I expect that most of us hardcore PLs would never go for a higher price, but the point, of course, is that an in-demand dancer on a busy night will find loads of guys who WILL pay, so she doesn't give a fuck whether you and I take a pass
discussion comment
6 years ago
^^^ My very first ATF used to disappear for a couple of days, turned out they were drug-fueled benders of non-stop partying.
My current ATATF sometimes disappears for a couple of days, but it's a several day long hissy fit where she doesn't leave the house and doesn't want to talk or text with anyone ... assuming fits of depression
discussion comment
6 years ago
Damn, that is crazy! I'm guessing you've figured out what your mistakes were, so no reason to go over them?
discussion comment
6 years ago
gawker: if it makes you feel any better, you make the rest of us feel uncomfortavle w ourselves also
discussion comment
6 years ago
We've all experienced the same, ad nauseum. A stripper's mind is a complex, twisted labyrinth of schemes and intrigue. Maybe the girls were just stringing you along, hoping to get you in the club again; maybe they actually intended to show, but then the day-of changed their mind. The ghosting on texts is standard stripper M.O. -- they deal with potential conflict by simply ceasing communication. Yes, I realize that if they'd just texted you "I'm so sorry, I missed our appointment because I got cold feet, and was afraid to text and disappoint you", you'd probably understand -- but that's not how strippers interact with customers, especially non-regulars
discussion comment
6 years ago
#GiveFlagHisDollarBack
discussion comment
6 years ago
skibum (and anyone else who doesn't notice a difference)... what's your typical experience like? Is it basically "talk to the girls for a song or two, do some dances, then she moves on and you hang out for a bit, and repeat with the next girl?" Or, by contrast, are you saying that if you typically like lots of socializing time, it's the same for both day and night shift?
I'm wondering if that's the difference. Just hard for me to believe that anyone is hanging out with a stripper for a long period of time on a busy nightshift, without spending loads of $$$$$$, whereas it's pretty easy to get that on dayshift for an affordable price IME. But a guy who is just grabbing a girl for dances and then sending her on, no socialization, sure -- not as big a difference
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"Boner fee? wtf? bj, if you ever tried to charge me a boner fee that would be the last dollar you ever get from me"
Well, at least now we know that the Boner Fee is 50 cents per inch
discussion comment
6 years ago
She's saying that from the point of view of a stripper, who might measure her dances by whether or not they are boner-inducing (which seems like a fine measure:
Nightshift girls deal with a younger party crowd that get a boner so easily, that the girls might conclude "cursory lapdance = boner = I did a great job"
Dayshift girls have to work hard for the same result, as the older crowd needs a heaping of competent sensuality to get hard. So for a dayshift girl. A dayshift girl who is looking for that boner as feedback on how great her dances are, has to be a lot more sensual and give much more skilled dances to get it.
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"Hmmm... i don't think i've run into any of those things, and i actually go on the busiest shifts at times (Saturday night, which is a shift that the ATF always works), although at one other club, i vastly prefer the day shift which is often busier than the night shifts that follow during the week."
Dirk, for reference, nearly everything BJ mentioned is exactly aligned with my experience of busy nightshifts. Which is not to say that your experience -- you haven't run into them -- is not valid. But I -- and I'm willing to guess, the majority of tuscl PLs who eschew nightshift -- run into all these things. Upcharging, break songs, lower quality dances than dayshift, etc., are unquestionably my experience of busy nightshifts.
discussion comment
6 years ago
Picture perfect explanation as to why I don't do busy night shift :) When I do go to a night shift, I try to go early when it's not busy, and then see if I can sweet-talk her into showing up to a dayshift for me ... or, alternatively, I met a nightshift girl who usually doesn't come in at 10 or 11 because the 7-11pm slot is too dead for her; but if I guaranteed I'd be there, she was willing to come in at 7 for me, and we'd do a more dayshift-type interaction