What I learned on a busy night shift

Excellent dancer insight. It can be crazy on certain nights.

There can be very high demand for certain dancers - and seeing that high demand may create higher demand (when other customers see how popular one dancer is).

The dancer regulars can find it frustrating - as some come to only see a specific dancer. Other guys can get frustrated - as they have difficulty understanding why they can’t get a dancers attention. When you add alcohol - it can make for a bad situation.

For experienced mongers - it’s best to visit during day shift - or during a slow time.

Some guys don’t get it - and those guys seem to continually be frustrated.

I’m almost always day or early evening, and never Friday or Saturday night after 9PM

You could go in on busy nights to scope girls out, and then offer her a few hundred for more time on her less busy shifts. Much like w OTC, many girls want to maximize their overall earnings. She may come in on a day shift, if she knows she’ll make a few hundred, and spend most of the day with you.

Thanks for the insight Bj. I always appreciate hearing your perspective and those of the other strippers on here.

I also agree with what Cashman said. Unless I’m going just for eye candy, I avoid night shift. If a hot stripper is really busy, good for her but not good for me. I’m very willing to pay for fun but I’m not willing to stand in line for it nor am I willing to pay a premium price for it.

There are too many good alternatives than clubbing in a strong seller’s market.

Yes I prefer visit during slow times.

On one Fri nite at extras club near me (2008) super pretty 20 yo blonde girl in yellow bik approached me after talking to mgr (he mite have told her I am vip). S came to my table and s said let’s go upstairs and I said would take couple dances. S ignored that and went to work on me sucking my dick then put condom on me and w fuked CG “how u like that 20 yo tight pussy she asked” in her Louisiana accent and not long after I shot and shot - s really good. To my horror I realized I had not negotiated price. She wanted 300 which I paid after went to atm. S saw me take out $400 and asked for $100 tip and like in trance gave it to her. We met on reg basis vip / itc sex $300 every wed afternoon billy she would not come down or meet otc. She was hottest girl in club and had a nice tight one to boot. I bet she bumped off a lot of them..in there.

^ sounds like you got a bargain, if she is that busy and hot.

Good insights. Thank you.

Picture perfect explanation as to why I don't do busy night shift :) When I do go to a night shift, I try to go early when it's not busy, and then see if I can sweet-talk her into showing up to a dayshift for me ... or, alternatively, I met a nightshift girl who usually doesn't come in at 10 or 11 because the 7-11pm slot is too dead for her; but if I guaranteed I'd be there, she was willing to come in at 7 for me, and we'd do a more dayshift-type interaction

I think Bj is describing the basics of supply and demand - and when a dancer is in higher demand - it’s appropriate that her rate might be a bit higher. If her rate remains the same - then it might be a bargain. But dancers aren’t robots - and the potential for a less satisfying single dance experience is entirely possible.

Way too complicated for me. I'll just stick with my daytime honeys

I do nights and weekends, I never have a problem....only way you're NOT going to get multiple dances from me is if you're really boring...I don't have a problem getting anyone because they know I usually carry 700-1000 in my wallet, and if you're good I let you dance an hour or two and buy drinks.....:) All that being said, I rather prefer OTC....I probably spend $300 for a couple relaxed OTC hours, vs $400 - 600 in the club for high mileage dances, but not extras because the club is strict about it, and I could push the envelope but why would I want to get someone sent home or fired, or risk an off chance that LE is in the club....

i appreciate the insight BJ99, I'll use the information when I go somewhere new :)

@Bj99 I don’t really care for the late night vibe in the club TBH and believe it or not I am pretty busy weekends, between going out with friends most evenings or dates, and golf on Saturday or Sunday mornings Im just not interested in going to the titty ballet, unless I’m meeting buddies or something

I think when I work the busy nights again, I’ll tell guys, “I do count break songs bc the dj makes sure they are at least 3 mins, but I charge the min rate. I allow touching w no upcharge, but feel free to tip if you enjoy.”

My atf will sometimes laugh when a song gets cut short, or once in a great while she'll get up and go do something during the middle of a song and joke and say, "are you paying for this 1/2 a song?" because she knows I give zero fucks and really don't count them too much

As usual, Subraman offers some great advice. I was surprised how few guys inquired ab my schedule, after expressing a lot of interest. When I told them I work day shifts, they wanted to know when they could come see me. If you enjoy a girl when it is busy, then why not optimize your experience, and her time, by coming in when it’s less busy. I can’t dven imagine how guys enjoy dances when it’s so packed.

If my girl worked day shift, you can bet I'd be there at least once a week to support her....:)

^ with the money you spend, you can prolly negotiate for her to spend an entire day shift w you. She’d likely come in just to see you.

I’d like to supplement you advice Bj by offering this for the dancers, working an occasional night shift might help to build up a decent clientele of regulars

^^^for dayshift work. Hit post too fast

Yeah. I told the ones interested in vips/ multiple dances, my day shifts and my day shift rates. Does seem like a great way to drum up some new regulars

Hmmm... i don't think i've run into any of those things, and i actually go on the busiest shifts at times (Saturday night, which is a shift that the ATF always works), although at one other club, i vastly prefer the day shift which is often busier than the night shifts that follow during the week.

By upcharging, you mean changing the price of a dance or suggesting a tip? Most clubs i've been to, if not all of them, already have well established prices (with signs in the front of the lap dance area) and the dance counter, if they have one, will say how much you owe (total and not just what the girl owes them) sometimes ignoring what the girl and especially what the PL says. In those cases, i and most PLs would consider straight upcharging (unless negotiated and agreed to ahead of time due to "extra" services) ROB behavior as it is quite rare IME and assumes that PLs can't read or don't know how much dances cost. Now tipping for more mileage (than the average girl, not house rules which are often not followed) is generally expected, but how much is something else entirely. But upcharging might actually be a common thing at your club. I don't know how successful that actually is, in terms of getting multiple dances or repeat customers.

Break songs? Are those a regular thing? The way you describe them albeit a bit confusing, it sounded like a shorter song instead of a regular song and played between every set of songs or something. Haven't run into this either. There was a club that played a very shortened song before a new girl was added to the stage, but they played different music in the lap dance area so no confusion there, although a lot of girls didn't like to wait for a new song, grrr... Another club would play a different song or two before a dance promotion where every available girl had to go to the stage that they played while they were rounding them up and then another when they brought them out. They were usually full or near full length songs. They weren't counted as songs by the counter though, so if you were fortunate to already be in the lap dance area at the time, you kind of got "free" lap dance time when it happened, although some girls would stop actively dancing and just stay still in your lap. It didn't stop me from doing other things i liked though. I do consider this time when it comes to tipping (not the full price of a song though, as the girls there didn't keep the full price of a dance anyway nor did they put in the full effort during the time). But otherwise, i and many other PLs wouldn't appreciate a dancer using a shortened song (which includes starting a dance some time after it has started instead of waiting for a new song) and charging full price for it, again considering it ROB behavior.

Boner fee? Never heard that one before, although i think SirLapdancealot really works on his well before the dances start. I don't think he negotiates any price for that pre-dance service as well as when his LDK dances actually happen, although i'm pretty sure he tips afterwards. Likewise, i've never negotiated the price of a dance based on how turned on i expect to get. I thought that was one of the selling points of a dance and expected in the regular price. Again, I and many PLs would be a bit miffed by a dancer suggesting or outright asking for a tip or increased price of a dance because he got hard during a dance, which for some PLs (those young bucks) often might not even have anything to do directly with the dancer.

Honestly, while i appreciate you numerous contributions, these sounds a lot like strategies SW girls give to other girls. Like how not to make more money in the long run from the PLs perspective (except for PLs that don't mind being nickled and dimed). Of course the club you work at sounds quite different (and busier, in terms of paying customers and not just body counts) than any i've been to. Good for you and the other girls that they can get dances literally non stop. Seriously, i don't know why other girls would be resentful in that situation. It sounds more like the hot girl hustle when it's very busy rather than giving extra mileage for "free" as the reason why some dancers do very well on busy nights. Not every stripper is that hot. Tough titties, lol...

I didn’t mention a “boner fee.” Please reread.

Thanks for the insight and tips Bj99! Very useful!

-->"Hmmm... i don't think i've run into any of those things, and i actually go on the busiest shifts at times (Saturday night, which is a shift that the ATF always works), although at one other club, i vastly prefer the day shift which is often busier than the night shifts that follow during the week."

Dirk, for reference, nearly everything BJ mentioned is exactly aligned with my experience of busy nightshifts. Which is not to say that your experience -- you haven't run into them -- is not valid. But I -- and I'm willing to guess, the majority of tuscl PLs who eschew nightshift -- run into all these things. Upcharging, break songs, lower quality dances than dayshift, etc., are unquestionably my experience of busy nightshifts.

^ In that case i guess i'm fortunate in the clubs i go to. But i haven't been to all that many clubs or in that many regions. I will agree that the lower quality of dances (especially with regards to mileage as well as a different type of feeling/energy in general) is more common during busy night shifts and night shifts in general. I chalked that up more to the dancers that tended to work those shifts than something intrinsic to those actual shifts, as in one case the day shifts on weekdays was busier on average (girls working and spending customers) than on the night shifts that followed (on those rare cases i spent major parts of both shifts back to back, at the club as well as hearing from dancer anecdotes).

Bravo Mr. DirkDiggler..I applaude you sir.

@Bj99 I guess i misread or misunderstood or something. My understanding of it was that you implied negotiating price on quality of a dance beforehand (which i have never done, unless "additional" services were involved). You also seemed to imply that the boner had something to do with quality and with that more regarding that to the dancer's experience of it (not the PL's):

=> So many of the young guy party crowd guys already have a boner the moment you sit on their lap, so girls who only work busy night may not get the same lap dance experience as girls who really have to earn that boner. This is another area where you could negotiate price.

I thought it was strange that you described the different experience from the girl's perspective as if there should be a different price negotiated if a boner was "created" instead of already present. Hence, boner fee. Again, i guess i misread or misunderstood your implications. At the least it was a bit confusing section. What were you implying?

She's saying that from the point of view of a stripper, who might measure her dances by whether or not they are boner-inducing (which seems like a fine measure:

Nightshift girls deal with a younger party crowd that get a boner so easily, that the girls might conclude "cursory lapdance = boner = I did a great job"

Dayshift girls have to work hard for the same result, as the older crowd needs a heaping of competent sensuality to get hard. So for a dayshift girl. A dayshift girl who is looking for that boner as feedback on how great her dances are, has to be a lot more sensual and give much more skilled dances to get it.

@ Subraman. Exactly.

Bj99 - a boner fee? So I get a discount for getting hard as soon as I see your hot body on stage? Lol

After you posted those glistening and soapy photos - I’m thinking flags must be raised as soon as you start your stage sets!

I think this is an example of mismatched expectations and how dancers and custies see things very diffferently.

As a customer I don't expect to have to pay extra to get an adequate dance (i.e. 2-way-contact) - nor do I like to commit to X # of dances ahead of time b/c I may not feel the dancer then I'm locked-in for X-dances - I def understand and accept a dancer opting for a better deal; and I also know and accept a dancer's time is valuable and why I'm cognizant not to waste/milk her time - if I agree to a dance w/ a dancer I always get at least 2 as to not waste her time per se; but wanna have the flexibility to end it at one if I'm not feeling her.

Also - pretty-much every club I've been to has a set dance-price - I don't pay over the set price per dance, if I wanna spend more-$$$ on her I get more dances and if I tip I don't agree to a tip ahead of time and tip post-dances depending on how the dances went.

In most-areas dances are $20+ for about 3-minutes which I think is decent $$$ - at this rate one is down min $60 for about 10-minutes of entertainment.

I accept a dancer not wanting my offer of paying the basic dance-price; she can pass on my offer and I can pass on her - I also accept her stating upfront she charges more although I won't pay-it and pass; but I will not accept her telling me after the fact/dances that she charges more than the basic dance-price - IMO that is being a ROB - if a dancer wants to charge more than the going-rate she needs to state that upfront b/c the club has a set price for a reason - the instances a dancer has tried to upcharge me post-dances I have not paid the upcharge and also there goes any possible tip; but many inexperienced SCers are often easily-intimidated and pay-up.

@Subraman What you're saying is all true. It takes more effort (skill, talents, mileage) to procure a boner in an older man. The older crowd prefers day shift for numerous reasons. Again, the negotiating thing amongst all this lost me though. Discount then, during busy night shifts? Cashman and i can only dream. You do continue to impress, however, including your fluency in Bj99 ;)

There’s no fucking boner fee! :P Read Subraman’s explaination. I’m just saying that the reason guys are dissapointed by dancer’s dance quality at night, is bc they aren’t used to trying as hard as the day shift girls, so they might not learn.

I'll respond when I have more time. A scantily clad lady just sat down with me.

@Bj99 just charge them a boner fee, I’ll split it with you;)

Bj99 - I was joking about the boner fee! Lol!

25 has to be in bed by 9:30pm

^^^with you wife she told me you generally go out at 8:30 ;)

You like the nightshift BJ? You going to be doing it more?

It’s more like “boner feedback,” if getting a guy hard is a ‘B’ and making him jizz in his pants is an ‘A’. It’s much easier to get the night shift guys hard.. actually, I think they are walking around like that.

This is why I love reading discussions!

Boner fee? wtf? bj, if you ever tried to charge me a boner fee that would be the last dollar you ever get from me. Not sure why you are suggesting a fee like that. Sheesh!

^ fuck you. I never said that, you stupid fuck.

And dirk is a defensive little bitch to start some shit like that. Fuck you also, dirk.

Lol. Just having a little fun with you bj. Wow.

I think that up until I was 25 I had a boner about 60% of the time. Unfortunately at that age I didn't really know what to do with it!

=D ooh, na-na, look what i done started...

@Bj99, I often get from the Fri+Sat dancers: “you look like a Tuesday guy” or “you look like a Thursday guy.” And most will quote their schedule and have me read it back to them after I pay them.

I appreciate you taking the time to research, ponder, and write this post. Yeah, I’m overlooking the obvious.

I totally get the arousal thing — I hesitate to use the @b’ word, since it’s been co-opted by the trolls — because a weekday night or day shift girl is used to working more sensuality than a Fri night girl. So I totally get it! I think you’re pushing me over the edge, in more ways than one, lol. ;).

haha back I've been working but so funny my atf called me and asked me to come over again today! ....I paid 400 to her at the club the other night (plus drinks + tip + cover), then 300 visiting her during the day twice....

I originally told her I might be able to come visit maybe once every other week....LOL so its up to her to make some money dancing now or find another OTC.....though she calls/texts me frequently and claims she doesn't have another OTC....I told her its ok...same as in the club I don't mind her dancing for other guys if she needs to.

-->"Boner fee? wtf? bj, if you ever tried to charge me a boner fee that would be the last dollar you ever get from me"

Well, at least now we know that the Boner Fee is 50 cents per inch

poor girl...she never said boner fee....A lot of girls have trouble getting me hard...a very few have no problem...none can make me cum.....Once in a while I'll tell them $100 tip if you can make me cum......that gets me some great action and some laughs too....I'm all about having fun though.

"... So many of the young guy party crowd guys already have a boner the moment you sit on their lap, so girls who only work busy night may not get the same lap dance experience as girls who really have to earn that boner ..."

I take this to mean that a guy w/ a pre-boner has already done part/most of the work for the dancer; i.e. she does not have to work at hard to turn him on thus pre-boner guy may not get the benefit of a dancer that is trying hard to turn him on since he's already there.

I find that day and time have little to nothing to do with my experiences. Then again I go to the club with zero expectations. Of course on weekend nights it may be harder to get the dancer you want, but other than that its all pretty much the same.

skibum (and anyone else who doesn't notice a difference)... what's your typical experience like? Is it basically "talk to the girls for a song or two, do some dances, then she moves on and you hang out for a bit, and repeat with the next girl?" Or, by contrast, are you saying that if you typically like lots of socializing time, it's the same for both day and night shift?

I'm wondering if that's the difference. Just hard for me to believe that anyone is hanging out with a stripper for a long period of time on a busy nightshift, without spending loads of $$$$$$, whereas it's pretty easy to get that on dayshift for an affordable price IME. But a guy who is just grabbing a girl for dances and then sending her on, no socialization, sure -- not as big a difference

I guess some of us are lucky too, we have some nightshifts that aren't that busy...mon, tue, sun etc....sometimes can be quite dead....I'll often get to sit a few hours without spending the entire time....even occasionally a fri or sat can be slow...recently the cavs were playing and the girls told me it was dead as fuck in there.

Actually, shorter boners are more work bc I usually have to lift up a guy’s belly to get to it. :P

^ c'mon - don't talk about flagooner like that

#GiveFlagHisDollarBack

Lots of lap sitting there Bj99?

In the clubs you've been in, does this tend to lead to front room makeout sessions?

SJG

Yuja Wang & Lynn Harrell: Rachmaninov Sonata for Cello & Piano in G minor youtube.com

It’s not a belly it’s a dicky do (that’s where his belly sticks out further than his dicky do ) ;)

Writings about King Henry 8th being like that, 60 inch belly.

SJG

Was it Donald Trump with the shortage ? ;)

So would it be fair expect a dancer to charge less than the advertised price for a dance during slow times? I would never pay more than what the club advertised. I get it from the dancers point of view but until a dancer offers me a discounted dance because she’s not busy I’ll stick to the actual price. And if a girl tried to say her dances cost more after the dance Id have a good laugh at that. It’s all up to each person to decide what they’re okay with but like I said you don’t see girls in $20 dance clubs offering $10 dances just because it’s slow. And as a customer just try offering half price for a dance “because she’s not busy” and see the reaction you’d get.

^^^^ Buying dances is a chump's game. Front room makeout session. But get her used to accepting money from you, generous money. Not payments, just a show of care and concern.

Then when it is time for your own pants to come down, you invite her to the back room. Then take her home with you to continue.

Also, always best if you pick the girl and approach her yourself.

SJG

^ it’s supply and demand. The clubs set minimum prices, but most allow girls to raise it. You can maybe get a fugly girl for less.. I don’t know.. it makes sense that the ones in high demand might charge more. That’s all.

^^ive run into that, even in slow clubs on day shift. It doesn’t phase me one way or another. The stripper can ask whatever she wants and I can make my own spending decisions. If I don’t want to pay her price, I don’t. If she asks me why, I do a Subraman and just tell her. Supply and demand works things out pretty well.

But I’m also a variety guy so walking away is fine with me if we don’t have a meeting of the minds. The longer I do this, the more it makes sense to be polite, direct and clear. One loses out on some opportunities but it doesn’t really cost me any fun to go in a different direction sometimes. I don’t blame a stripper or escort for trying to maximize her earnings and I don’t argue prices with them. But I also don’t feel the least bit bad about saying no.

@Bj99 there one problem with your theory of supply and demand, eventually demand is filled, and the girls become an oversupply. Who do you think is going to get dances, when higher rates become gouging? Tell you the truth if you want to hear it, first rule of sales is be good to your customers, that will build loyalty. If you overcharge it might make some fast money but if you maintain loyal customers, you’ll always make a good living.

@Subraman posted, “skibum (and anyone else who doesn't notice a difference)... what's your typical experience like? … Just hard for me to believe that anyone is hanging out with a stripper for a long period of time on a busy nightshift, without spending loads of $$$$$$”

I use an email coupon for free cover charge. I arrive between 10 and 12 midnight on a Friday night.

I order a whiskey and have the waitress break some 20s into 5s and 1s for tipping with my drink. Usually after a couple sips, a dancer will stop by and ask to sit. Often with her I just not feeling it and let her go around 10 minutes or when she asks for dances and I decline. Another dancer stops down, I go up to one on the floor, or one on stage catches my eye. We have a nice flirty conversation, after about 5-10 minutes, I tell her I’m enjoying the conversation, and tip her a $5.

The convo with some groping from both of us will go on for 40 minutes to an hour. If she’s really entertaining, I’ll tip her another $5 along the way. She may go up on stage or maybe we’ll go back for dances after the hour. I’ll buy a couple dances. I’ll stop at only 1 dance though if it’s not that good. I might buy 4 if she’s out of this world. I’ll apply the Chili Palmer tip schedule at the end of the dances.

At this point it’s probably 11 or 1 and I’ve lost my table. So I’ll find another table, go out to the smoking patio, or sit at the stage. I’ll order another drink or two. I may watch a tip a few stage sets of maybe show interest in one of the dancers. If not, then one who’s walked the floor or out on that patio has. I’ll sit down with a new dancer. We’ll take for upwards of 90 minutes, tipping her $5 along the way if I’m enjoying it. Then do a couple dances with her.

By now it’s been about 2 hours, spent about an hour each with two dancers, stuffed some singles into Bubble’s g-string, got my lap dances, and I should start to think about heading back home. It’s complicated with the Mrs. I’ve cleared my head, motivated me, so in the morning I should hit the ground running and work my ass off / bust my ass. That’s why I club.

@Bj99 posted, "I charge a way lower vip rate on day shifts, and that doesn’t bother me, but it’s simply not worth the time when the club is packed. Make sure she knows that you understand it’s a different rate than Friday/Saturday nights."

That's good to know. I struggle with rationalizing the VIP rates these days on my budget.

@BJ99 posted, "This could affect mileage too."

I've not found that it has affected mileage. For me, it's same shit, different night. So, I'm not sure if I get good Fri night service, or the lousy Tues/Thurs service, or maybe something in between? You guys seem adamant so maybe I'm doing it rong.

For the tactic that Bj99 suggests, which has also been Subraman's MO: Find a Fri night shift dancer that you like, then get her schedule and/or see if she'll schedule you mid week day shift for a couple hundred buck guaranteed.

That creates a feel snags for me that aren't really snags but have a certain cost to them.
(1) a recon visit like that costs at least $50, no? That eats into the budget for the second trip. (2) I got to then deal with the wife as to why I'm going back out so soon for a second trip, and why if I met her why am I meeting her again so soon. To cut short, I've either (2.1) got to put her in a box and sit on her (2.2) or white lie and keep the trip on the down low. I tend to go with option 2.1, not a big deal, but it's mildly annoying. Ditto if I stay out all hours of the night for 5 hours with another woman, like I used to.
(3) I may run out of money.

Lately, like I've been cutting back expenses on what I spend on her -- suggestions from my budget thread a few months back -- , spending more on me since I'm the one working, coming and going more as a please, and not putting up with her shit. It's not a big deal. That's why now I suddenly open to the ideas of weekday afternoon clubbing, and even getting sex or at least 2 way contact out of the strippers. Though I do keep to @Meat72's suggestion of staying out of the VIP (or hotels) until I'm meeting my financial goals.

I don’t raise my prices, but I do charge for the songs between dancers. They are usually around 3 mins. If they are super short, I don’t charge. Still. It think it’s better to pay the min for four, than double for two w breaks between. Only the most in demand girls can charge more, but I don’t see a huge benefit. Just letting you know where the dancers are coming from when they do this (if stated before).

Interesting discussion. I too pulled my ATF from a busy wknd shift to come see me on a slower shift. Big difference. Used to be after a few minutes we'd go for dances, but now it's much longer. I'm still spending the same, but getting more out of it.

The big question is--Who do you adjust/let know your schedule?? Some guy spends $60, are you gonna even waste your time telling him your schedule or coming in just for him?? Or how about a modest but consistent, respectable regular at $120 that you've seen 4 times over 3 months??

This has blown up, tldr....

Any way, what I got out of Bj99’s subject is that old guys are starting to throw their cash around a little quicker, and will likely do more of that in the near future. They’re going to live like no tomorrow, so if you want to compete with those old fuckers, you may not want to waste your time and throw a little extra cheese when you can for repeat business.

Some of us will be shit out of luck before our turn.

^I did get it, I’m just telling you something as an old businessman, I built a successful business over many years. I have had many opportunities over the years, with some very large projects offered to me, at a premium if I dropped or stalled what I was working on, and shifted to the new project. One thing I’ve found is that customers will wait if you are a known quantity, one project I am working on now wanted us to drop everything in January and mobilize for them, they threatened to go elsewhere but here I am, not the first time, probably not going to be the last, and here I am over 40 years in this business, made a few pennies and with work starting to slow down I have no openings for new projects till October or November and will book another successful year.

I've very very rarely ran into a situation where getting with a dancer required paying above the going-rate - about 3 years ago a dancer told me she charged above the going-rate, she was hot so I agreed, the dance was meh and I never got with her again in subsequent visits - IME most dancers that want premium prices don't necessarily provide premium service and often times just have premium-GPS - there may be some that may provide above avg service but it's a crapshoot at best IMO/IME

Agree with twentyfive. I’d go on to say that supply and demand is kind of a give and take. Prices would go up from the median when the supply is low and demand high (night shift) and go down from the median when the supply is high and demand low (day shift). Since the prices won’t go down below that median I’d equate this practice more to price gouging instead. Prices go up when the demand is high but only come back to the median when low.

A dancer and a customer can come to whatever arrangement they want but a dancer asking for more per dance when she’s busy is the equivalent of me asking for a reduced rate when she’s slow IMO. I wouldn’t do it to a girl because it just seems like a bad way to start off and that’s the way I take it when it’s asked of me.

I'm used to the '90s SC boom prices (e.g, $100-120/hr for clothed convo with a dancer, heard stories of $700/hr for clothed/topless convo at Diamonds) so prices today don't seem as bad. Still trying to grow my nest egg and increase my income / income streams, so can compete with the old fuckers when its my time, if I even still care by then.

I agree Papi, the last night shift (and one of the only few) that ever asked me to pay over the going rate had bad GPS, wouldn't even allow touching of her hips and outside thighs (clearly everything else off limits, too) and insisted I keep my hands to my sides.

You got this down to a science BJ. I for one have learned you got some mad skills and am impressed with your dedication to the craft. Thank you for sharing your perspective and advice.

There is no way I would let a dancer upcharge me on a dance just because "I have other guys that would pay that right now." That doesn't fly with me. Either you decide to dance for me at the advertised price or move on. I don't think I've encountered a "break song" yet. Maybe I should start timing some of the songs that are being played next time I'm on the floor

I appreciate some of the dancer's insight but her idea of supply and demand is extremely flawed

See the thing is, you wouldn’t, but other guys would. That’s actually how supply and demand works. I’m just explaining why you run into some of these things that don’t appear to make sense. They didn’t make sense to me either, until I worked a busy night and experienced it for myself.

^ If you understand economics and how it relates to sales, demand usually creates an oversupply leading to price drops, that’s the flaw in your understanding.

The club doesn’t allow that, and only the most attractive, high demand girls, can charge more. Strippers are corn, or wheat lol.

Aren’t.

Yeah, clubs probably allow up charging when busy but don’t allow below their standard rate when they are slow. That doesn’t make a lot of sense but I don’t think these clubs are managed by Econ majors.

@ Bj99 Services like strippers perform are extremely commoditized. Too many girls working in a club wouldn’t be good for you.

It’s not just clubs that don’t charge below a min rate. It’s sad how you guys expect strippers to always lower their price, when they aren’t in demand, but can’t comprehand them raising them, when they are. Also, prices aren’t all about YOUR demand, but also her’s. The girls who would lower prices drastically are often desperate for cash bc of issues that nice clubs would rather not encourage or enable.

Many of the girls who charge more aren’t even trying to make more off dances. They are also looking for whales who will pay rediculous amounts for vips. The girls who adapt this strategy save a lot of energy, but make around the same, or more, as the girls who do dances all night long. They do have to deal w more complicated negotiating that can border on ROB behavior.

If you can see things from a dancer’s perspective, then how can you expect them to see things from yours? I’m just trying to tell you what I saw and experienced. Take of it what you want.

25, it hardly matters to me how many girls are working at the club. I still make my money.

Plus, to some degree, more girls means more guys. Even if it’s not proportional, it’s enough.

^My point is made by you , I’ll assume you have regulars that’s why.

^There will be come a point of diminishing returns, club can only have so many people at one time.

BJ, I appreciate your insights you’ve been posting. Thank you.

I think someone missed Econ 101! The law of supply and demand - doesn’t create an oversupply when demand is high. You must keep in mind there is a finite supply. This isn’t manufacturing (where there is still a finite supply).

With a strip club - more customers wanting more dances with a particular dancer creates increased demand. That demand - in a non-fixed price economy - will push prices up.

Over a lengthy period of time - after resources shift - and supply increases - an oversupply may occur (and a price drop). But - the initial effect is higher demand = higher marginal prices.

@ 25. Not at night, I don’t. I do fine bc I have a nice body, a good honest hustle, and I give good dances. And dancers know all about diminishing returns. Hence, why some are relatively low mileage, especially on the first song. You can say “well, I’d get more dances, if she’d let me do more.” But her experience prolly tells her otherwise, or it’s not worth it to her. Plus, dancing can be tiring. Girls are often just fine w making slightly less, of it means they didn’t have to work very hard.

You are only capable of seeing it from your own side.

@ Cashman, exactly. Some ppl must have only taken macro.

The reason why the club doesn’t encourage dancers to do dances below the advertised rate is because it encourages desperate behavior and a race to the bottom.

The end result is room with some guys waiting until a dancer agrees to dance for only $1. Then then next guy will, but only if a free extras are thrown in for that dollar, etc.

Some girls frustrated when not selling dances will just keep dropping prices until the guy says yes. Not sure that’s healthy or sustainable or smart for her.

Dominic77 I don’t know if that’s the case. I think clubs try to provide somewhat set pricing - so customers know the general rate to expect.

If each dancer was to set her own price - whether low or high - it would be impossible to enforce. If you couple a dancer’s own price with a premium for prime time - and a discount for slow times - it would be even worse.

Plus some customers try to leverage the dancer’s time against her. Once she’s dressed, done up, and paid house (negative) the DJ only plays certain number of songs in a shift (60/3x7=140?). Even if she’s dancing half the time (sells one dance and after 1 song of convo,that’s 50 dances? She can’t sell a partial dance.

If a customer stalls, he knows that song the DJ just played is gone forever and she can’t sell it. It’s sunk. She made $0. But he thinks, if she’ll agree to accept something above zero, then she’s at least made more than she would have otherwise.

I think that’s partly how the price predatory guys see it. She’ll accept my offer other wise she’ll get nothing. If she does that enough, she can scrape together a living.

Rick is the master of exploiting that with his “rent day” OTC and back to school OTC and Christmas presents are needed OTC. She only has a certain number of shifts to due OTC if she’s cash strapped and deadlines are approaching fast.

That makes sense, cashman. I prefer to know the prices, too. I think perhaps the race to the bottom is more for extras pricing. Or maybe not even then. But I think you are right.

I was always interested in the supposed value of day shift. Like a dance is $20 and 3 minutes long. Like do the prices suddently drop? Or are the songs suddenly 5 minutes long? What exactly are you getting out of it? Other than they sit and talk longer uncompensated or for smaller tips than Fri nights. Bj’s more denial dances explain it. Subra’s sit and talk for 5 hours uncompensated explains it.

I used to like day shift because the dancers would sit and talk for longer in between asking for dances. I liked this because the money would fly out of my wallet at a slower rate, so I could stay longer. Then eventually I just started paying for convo, tipping a $20, and noticing that she stayed longer than if I bought a $20 dance.

AGain, I have seen what BJ is describing -- the best looking girls, on busy nights, either bump up the price of dances, or more commonly, go VIP-only and refuse to do lapdances. I expect that most of us hardcore PLs would never go for a higher price, but the point, of course, is that an in-demand dancer on a busy night will find loads of guys who WILL pay, so she doesn't give a fuck whether you and I take a pass

I think the club’s set price also acts as quality control. They provide the venue, atmosphere, customers (group effort), and staff. They are kinda saying, our customers will pay this amount for dances, if you cannot make it charging at least this, then you are not a good fit for this club. That way the club doesn’t have to put too much thought into hiring, since girls who can’t make sell dances at their price, will quit. It lets the club’s customers decide which entertainers they want there.

Y’all also need to keep in mind that some clubs take a set amount from each dance, and each vip. If that’s the case, it’s to the girl’s benefit to sell fewer dances/vips at a higher price.

Subraman summarized it well. It’s kind of irrelevant if most of us would pass on the higher prices. The stripper is working and trying to make a buck so it matters more if there are enough customers who will pay more. If so, the price will probably go up.

Bj also makes a good point about minimum prices. If a stripper can’t convince enough guys to buy dances at that price, maybe she shouldn’t be there.

Supply and demand is not what is at issue here. What BJ is trying to explain is how dancers maximize earnings, and where she has gained new insight from working a night shift where demand greatly exceeds supply. Instead of disputing her insight, try to improve your own game by learning the reason behind some of the interactions you have.

In a high demand environment (night shift) to maximize earnings, a dancer cannot waste time with single dances where she will lose the opportunity to cash in on the song prior to the dance and the song after the dance. Her response is to either lock in a higher price for single dance or do a 2 or 3 song minimum. She can’t chill with you at your table either.

In a low demand environment, she will maximize her earnings by giving steady service to someone who will be more stable and reliable. In exchange, she’ll charge the basic rate, or a discounted bulk rate or provide ‘more’ to keep the steady revenue coming.

TLDR - high demand = high hustle maximizes earnings. Low demand = steady value maximizes earnings. As a customer, you can choose in which environment you’d like to spend your money. Now that she’s told you what motivates her, you can use that to your own advantage.

^ very well put!

JimmyM summarized it nicely. I’m sure guys will still argue the point - but that’s why we’re here - lol!

@Bj actually I see it from both sides and understand perfectly well your point still I wish you well just giving you some honest feedback.

If you understood perfectly, you wouldn’t be arguing w me. I didn’t ask for your feedback, and I don’t need it, and I’m not even making any argument here. Just telling you what I experienced and explaining why dancers do some of the things we see, that can appear to be counter intuitive to making money. You’ve never been a high demand dancer on a busy shift, and until the other night, neither had I.

^ Who’s arguing now ?;)

Omg.. just hand me some money, and we’ll make out in then front room.. ;P

@Bj99 - So are you planning on doing more night shifts? How did you do compared to a normal dayshift? Was the hustle and bustle draining or exhilarating?

;)

It was tiring, but I’d rather just work a lot than deal w the mental stress of hustling. It felt great to make money so easily, and I made ab 175 an hour. I’ll work more busy night shifts.

My current strategy is to charge the min rate, but to include the between songs, unless they are very short. I think this is the sweet spot for quality and price increase, since my dances are good, and I’ll be able to use my skills, along w the crowd to make a pretty good amount. It’s no different outcome for me than charging double per song, but the customer gets more songs overall. It also requires the least thinking for the guy. I’m telling any interested customer my day schedule, and my day vip rate.

I’d love to somehow charge 3/60 to guarantee getting at least three, bc the songs before and after are a loss. I only had a few customers get less, and I’m not sure it is worth causing a customer any over thinking or congnitive dissonance. I think my current strategy of pleasantly surprising them, and asking if they’d like another, might be best. Always best to exceed someone’s expectations, and if I get a guy worrying ab a quantity up front, he may be pickier ab which songs we dance to, which is counter productive for me.

-->"Omg.. just hand me some money, and we’ll make out in then front room.. ;P"

Don't do it twentyfive! She'll hit you with the boner fee after, and you'll owe an extra $1.50

;) I already paid the boner fee, just because.

@JimmyMcNulty, well said, sir! I agree with everything you posted. Nothing to argue from me!

Also with the first and last songs around a single dance being throwaway, explains to me why some clubs and dancers push a 3/100 or 3/60 price.

You can make that work for you by letting a girl know you intend to buy multiple dances, if you enjoy them. That would help w mileage too. Some guys want to hold that back, thinking a girl will slow play it, but on a busy shift, she won’t want to only sell one dance.

i dont know how any man with self respect would want to meet up with a stripper on a slow day when she upsells (shorten) songs and has to committ to multiple dances before even having 1 because its "busy." Nevermind, a sucker is born every minute.

Why would a stripper be worried about only selling 1 dance? If your demand is as high as you think it is, you should be able to sell more than 1 dance per customer. Just because the place is full, it does not mean guys are spending money.

Bj99 it’s good you’ve found a sweet spot - with 3/$60. It’s interesting - that those numbers work for you.

I’m really not sure why I think that number is interesting - lol.

Maybe it’s because with tip it’s about $80-100. So maybe it’s a reasonable base rate - that allows for a decent tip too?

Oh no. I don’t request 3/60. I’d like to, but I think it’s best not to. The sweet spot, for me, is charging the min rate, but counting songs between dancers.

Ok. Got it. That works too. If it keeps things going - that’s what’s important to me. I don’t want any down time.

Great topic bj. I go to a sc to party not to negotiate. Any attempt to negotiate with me would probably result in me avoiding the dancer for all future offers.

She wouldn't care about the risk because she's making so much money. Another reason to avoid busy night shifts.

I don't agree w/ this supply-and-demand bullshit that if it's busy then you should expect to pay more for a dance - I've never been in this scenario anymore than going to an Olive Garden on a busy Friday night and being told my lasagna will be $20 instead of the $12 menu-price b/c "it's busy"

Nor do I think it's right/fair to charge a customer full-price for a skip-song which can can be as short as 30-seconds - no more-right to charge a custy full-price for a cut-song than for a custy not to pay full-price for a full-song - i.e. if a dancer does not like getting paid less than the going-rate then she should not charge a custy for less than a song - I rather she not dance the cut-song than charge me full-price for the shortened-song - cut-songs are not meant to be lap-dance songs - some dancers just unfairly take advantage of it

"cut-songs are not meant to be lap-dance songs"

Meant to say "SKIP-songs are not meant to be lap-dance songs"

"The first-song hold-out"

Seems for some dancers their hustle is to give a minimal mileage first-dance to leave the PL wanting for more- I'm sure this often works w/ newbs - but as for me that is the quickest way to forgo my busine$$ - i.e. you give me a lame first-dance and it's not only one-and-done but forget about getting any more biz from me in the future - if I pay full-price for a song i expect full-effort; else you are just taking my $$$

^ I don't know. Supposedly, dancers (the hot ones, anyway) at her club get away with it all the time, but how can she really know that? She doesn't do it herself (upcharge), but just hears(?) that other girls do it. She was talking about girls getting resentful of other popular girls for not upcharging. WTF? If you ask me, upcharging is a quick way for a girl to become very unpopular. Sounds like there's a lot of poisonous advice going around. Like you, i've never encountered this at any club, even at busy clubs. VIP/CRs? Yes, a lot of variation in pricing. A lot of promises too. Even when i read reviews, including the ones that we like to make fun of on these discussions, i don't hear of upcharging dances. Overcounting, yes. Pressuring for tips, yes. Seriously, the only place i've read about upcharging dances is, wait for it, Stripperweb. And contrary to the OP, even at the local clubs near me, despite established pricing, some girls do discount (particularly on multiple dances) despite having to pay a portion of the price to the house. So it's not unheard of to go the other direction, either.

I also agree, that what a dancer spends in time "waiting" for a full song, or the time she spends that cuts into the next song for whatever reason is not the PL's problem, essentially spending 3 songs on one dance for the PLs that get just one dance. If the dancer can't sell multiple dances, it's on her.

^ Woah, you're a little punchier than usual. Yes, i do agree that a dancer should put her best or at least better foot forward even in the beginning of a dance. But i'm not going to question their methods for maximizing their money when it comes to how they give their dances. Talk with your wallet as you say.

It's like I posted originally - dancers and custies will rarely see eye-to-eye; the interests are often diametrically-opposed - many dancers feel they don't get paid enough; most custies feel they are already paying/spending too-much - we usually come to a median that works "well enough" for both-parties

BJ had a good night, good for her. She was able to pull her stunts due to her novelty factor. She's a day dancer and picked up a night shit and was the "new" dancer on nights. I doubt she can continue to make good money with that supply and demand strategy if she continues to work nights. She'll need new suckers every night, but eventually she will get figured out by the night regulars.

w.r.t. the first-song holdout - it makes total-sense - if I get a great dance, one will usually not be enough (I'll want more of that) - if I get a lame-dance why do I wanna repeat - and if she tells me she only does 'X' (e.g. take her top-off, etc) only on the 2nd-song, then she's poisoning the water and making me feel ripped-off - experienced SCers know what to expect for what they pay, newbs often don't and why the first-song-holdout hustle works

@Papi you just said rather bluntly exactly what I said nicely. I agree. It might work for a bit but it’ll bite her in the ass eventually.

There’s no novelty on Saturday nights here. It’s packed like a night club, but w strippers. Every girl might as well be new. I would imagine that most customers would prefer for the girl to keep going through all of the songs, and pay the min rate, rather than her charging double, and then only actually dancing for the main songs. I let the customer know at each song, and I don’t not count the short ones. Most are ab 3 mins. It take some time for the girls to rotate stages.

Maybe her club and area are immune to the effects of the economy, but i doubt it. Unless it's in a high tourist, travel, airport area like Vegas or something, but even that place is seasonal and not consistent.

How do you know if the song is going to be short or not?

I agree Papi. It’s alwyas better for the customer to be pleasantly surprised. I’ve never understood the slow play thing. I take it all off before we sit down and alwyas give high quality dances. One thing that can be a little off putting is when guys immediately want to suck to tires, the first song, and the first time you meet them, but that’s another conversation.

"... I take it all off before we sit down ..."

Damn - that gave me a hard-on

"... How do you know if the song is going to be short or not ..."

In the context of this thread, we are referring to "skip songs" - I take these to mean when the DJ starts playing a song while the next-girl hasn't made it to the main-stage yet but then he restarts the song once the new-girl is on the main-stage - and it can be all over the place from 15-seconds to 2-minutes but it's not meant to be a lap-dance song, just playing some music till the next-girl makes it on stage - this phenomenon does not occur in most clubs but it does in some clubs - I think the DJ should announce it's a skip-song then announce once he starts playing the regular-song b/c too-many newbs get charged for the skip-song even if it's short, happened to me once as a newb and as a newb I paid but never got dances from that dancer again.

That's what i thought she was talking about too. But song length is all over the map like you said

^darn phone... but she counts them anyway. Apparently enough of them are over 3 minutes so that she isn't giving a lot of freebies 1-2.5 minute dances.

Front Room Makeout Session!

Buying Dances is a Chump's Game.

SJG

Mtn VIew Church Shelter Closed mv-voice.com

Gilroy Police Chief's gun, badge and laptop stolen ktvu.com

If the song winds up getting cut short, I just tell the customer “that was short. We won’t count that one” no big deal. I was going to be on his lap anyways. Might as well be dancing.

hahaha SJG ignored by a woman in this thread just like in real life, ha

"It’s not just clubs that don’t charge below a min rate. It’s sad how you guys expect strippers to always lower their price, when they aren’t in demand, but can’t comprehand them raising them, when they are. Also, prices aren’t all about YOUR demand, but also her’s. The girls who would lower prices drastically are often desperate for cash bc of issues that nice clubs would rather not encourage or enable."

I certainly don't expect a dancer to lower their price. I'll get a dance at the advertised price. Whether that is a 2 for 1 or whatever should be none of your concern. Your only concern should be to give quality customer service (i.e a quality dance). I haven't experienced much of this but from what I've heard, a lot of patrons get ripped off on quality. Just don't upcharge. If you get a patron ask for a dance and you think he'll only grab 1 (and thus a waste of time or whatever), then it's up to you if you want to go with him or maybe scout out a whale during a crowded day

If you want this industry to be more respected, then perhaps start using some respectful ways of earning the patron's money. Some of the tactics I've heard about are seedy for any business to use

Forgot to add in my last post but I want to stress this comment:

"^There will be come a point of diminishing returns, club can only have so many people at one time."

This is true and one day, all of those whales are going to run out (older generation) and the newer generation won't be so willing to hang around SCs due to their poor experiences and customer service. Some other industry might take over in the future is all I'm saying. This is where I run my point on dancers relying on whales is just poor customer service. I see a dancer when I enter a SC and she'll be on her phone the whole shift just waiting for her regular or scouting out a whale. Now imagine seeing 5 dancers doing the same exact thing the same shift (and this is on a day where it's relatively packed). There's having no hustle and then there's "you should just go home cause you aren't dancing"

I never said anything about wanting the customers to be more “respectful,” and I only sought to help explain why you might run into whale hunting behavior. It’s is not my personal opinion that whale hunting is the best strategy, but there’s are reasons on girls do it.

Damn, just getting back to this. Too long to read all the responses, but here is my input...

1. Some dancers charge more because it is proven that they are worth it. PLs keep her busy at the up charge. I don't see anything wrong with that so long as it is agreed upon up front.

2. I almost always get multiple dances but don't commit beforehand, that is a chump's game.

3. Boner Fees are wrong. I wouldn't pay it.

4. It isn't just young guys that enter the lap dance area ready to go. :-)

5. I generally tip a dancer simply because I realize it may be a little more difficult to provide a good dance to a guy like me.

I just thought I’d add this comment because I think this thread has a chance to break some sort of tuscl record.

Fuck you, flag! There’s no boner fee. Where do you even get that? I’m done tell you all shit for awhile.

Boner fees are the new best joke of tuscl!

Rong your gonna get band ;)

;-P