What I learned on a busy night shift
Bj99
<3
I’ve gained some new insight into some of your concerns, and have some ideas on how you can address them:
- girls charging more than the min for dances.
An attractive girl can spend the entire night doing dances, one after another. Unlike the day shift, guys were just walking up to me, and asking for dances, before I could even cross the room. I learned that a lot of time can be wasted when the guy only wants one min price dance, and that other girls are resentful of the more popular girls, if they allow touching without upcharging. If you have to have that busy girl, I suggest requesting multiple dances at the min rate, or offering to pay extra for one, to see if you connect. Then, negotiating for more. Ask every girl for her dance price first, bc even a lot of the less busy ones will increase their price AFTER, if you just get one, since they don’t rely on return customers, and don’t mind burning bridges.
Dancing during the break songs.
I don’t normally like to do dances during the between songs, but when it is so busy that the girls on stage are dancing to one song, you kinda have to. If you hate break song dances, say so upfront, and pay more for the dances.
Quality of dances.
So many of the young guy party crowd guys already have a boner the moment you sit on their lap, so girls who only work busy night may not get the same lap dance experience as girls who really have to earn that boner. This is another area where you could negotiate price. I doubt a lot of girls are giving it their best effort, if they know they can do dance after dance, and giving good dances is pretty tiring.
These girls can come in for other shifts and might even be required to.
If you find a girl you like, you might ask if she ever works days, or what nights she works when she isn’t very busy. Ask what she would charge for more time, when it’s not so busy. I charge a way lower vip rate on day shifts, and that doesn’t bother me, but it’s simply not worth the time when the club is packed. Make sure she knows that you understand it’s a different rate than Friday/Saturday nights. This could affect mileage too.
- girls charging more than the min for dances.
An attractive girl can spend the entire night doing dances, one after another. Unlike the day shift, guys were just walking up to me, and asking for dances, before I could even cross the room. I learned that a lot of time can be wasted when the guy only wants one min price dance, and that other girls are resentful of the more popular girls, if they allow touching without upcharging. If you have to have that busy girl, I suggest requesting multiple dances at the min rate, or offering to pay extra for one, to see if you connect. Then, negotiating for more. Ask every girl for her dance price first, bc even a lot of the less busy ones will increase their price AFTER, if you just get one, since they don’t rely on return customers, and don’t mind burning bridges.
Dancing during the break songs.
I don’t normally like to do dances during the between songs, but when it is so busy that the girls on stage are dancing to one song, you kinda have to. If you hate break song dances, say so upfront, and pay more for the dances.
Quality of dances.
So many of the young guy party crowd guys already have a boner the moment you sit on their lap, so girls who only work busy night may not get the same lap dance experience as girls who really have to earn that boner. This is another area where you could negotiate price. I doubt a lot of girls are giving it their best effort, if they know they can do dance after dance, and giving good dances is pretty tiring.
These girls can come in for other shifts and might even be required to.
If you find a girl you like, you might ask if she ever works days, or what nights she works when she isn’t very busy. Ask what she would charge for more time, when it’s not so busy. I charge a way lower vip rate on day shifts, and that doesn’t bother me, but it’s simply not worth the time when the club is packed. Make sure she knows that you understand it’s a different rate than Friday/Saturday nights. This could affect mileage too.
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There can be very high demand for certain dancers - and seeing that high demand may create higher demand (when other customers see how popular one dancer is).
The dancer regulars can find it frustrating - as some come to only see a specific dancer. Other guys can get frustrated - as they have difficulty understanding why they can’t get a dancers attention. When you add alcohol - it can make for a bad situation.
For experienced mongers - it’s best to visit during day shift - or during a slow time.
Some guys don’t get it - and those guys seem to continually be frustrated.
I also agree with what Cashman said. Unless I’m going just for eye candy, I avoid night shift. If a hot stripper is really busy, good for her but not good for me. I’m very willing to pay for fun but I’m not willing to stand in line for it nor am I willing to pay a premium price for it.
There are too many good alternatives than clubbing in a strong seller’s market.
On one Fri nite at extras club near me (2008) super pretty 20 yo blonde girl in yellow bik approached me after talking to mgr (he mite have told her I am vip). S came to my table and s said let’s go upstairs and I said would take couple dances. S ignored that and went to work on me sucking my dick then put condom on me and w fuked CG “how u like that 20 yo tight pussy she asked” in her Louisiana accent and not long after I shot and shot - s really good. To my horror I realized I had not negotiated price. She wanted 300 which I paid after went to atm. S saw me take out $400 and asked for $100 tip and like in trance gave it to her. We met on reg basis vip / itc sex $300 every wed afternoon billy she would not come down or meet otc. She was hottest girl in club and had a nice tight one to boot. I bet she bumped off a lot of them..in there.
All that being said, I rather prefer OTC....I probably spend $300 for a couple relaxed OTC hours, vs $400 - 600 in the club for high mileage dances, but not extras because the club is strict about it, and I could push the envelope but why would I want to get someone sent home or fired, or risk an off chance that LE is in the club....
By upcharging, you mean changing the price of a dance or suggesting a tip? Most clubs i've been to, if not all of them, already have well established prices (with signs in the front of the lap dance area) and the dance counter, if they have one, will say how much you owe (total and not just what the girl owes them) sometimes ignoring what the girl and especially what the PL says. In those cases, i and most PLs would consider straight upcharging (unless negotiated and agreed to ahead of time due to "extra" services) ROB behavior as it is quite rare IME and assumes that PLs can't read or don't know how much dances cost. Now tipping for more mileage (than the average girl, not house rules which are often not followed) is generally expected, but how much is something else entirely. But upcharging might actually be a common thing at your club. I don't know how successful that actually is, in terms of getting multiple dances or repeat customers.
Break songs? Are those a regular thing? The way you describe them albeit a bit confusing, it sounded like a shorter song instead of a regular song and played between every set of songs or something. Haven't run into this either. There was a club that played a very shortened song before a new girl was added to the stage, but they played different music in the lap dance area so no confusion there, although a lot of girls didn't like to wait for a new song, grrr... Another club would play a different song or two before a dance promotion where every available girl had to go to the stage that they played while they were rounding them up and then another when they brought them out. They were usually full or near full length songs. They weren't counted as songs by the counter though, so if you were fortunate to already be in the lap dance area at the time, you kind of got "free" lap dance time when it happened, although some girls would stop actively dancing and just stay still in your lap. It didn't stop me from doing other things i liked though. I do consider this time when it comes to tipping (not the full price of a song though, as the girls there didn't keep the full price of a dance anyway nor did they put in the full effort during the time). But otherwise, i and many other PLs wouldn't appreciate a dancer using a shortened song (which includes starting a dance some time after it has started instead of waiting for a new song) and charging full price for it, again considering it ROB behavior.
Boner fee? Never heard that one before, although i think SirLapdancealot really works on his well before the dances start. I don't think he negotiates any price for that pre-dance service as well as when his LDK dances actually happen, although i'm pretty sure he tips afterwards. Likewise, i've never negotiated the price of a dance based on how turned on i expect to get. I thought that was one of the selling points of a dance and expected in the regular price. Again, I and many PLs would be a bit miffed by a dancer suggesting or outright asking for a tip or increased price of a dance because he got hard during a dance, which for some PLs (those young bucks) often might not even have anything to do directly with the dancer.
Honestly, while i appreciate you numerous contributions, these sounds a lot like strategies SW girls give to other girls. Like how not to make more money in the long run from the PLs perspective (except for PLs that don't mind being nickled and dimed). Of course the club you work at sounds quite different (and busier, in terms of paying customers and not just body counts) than any i've been to. Good for you and the other girls that they can get dances literally non stop. Seriously, i don't know why other girls would be resentful in that situation. It sounds more like the hot girl hustle when it's very busy rather than giving extra mileage for "free" as the reason why some dancers do very well on busy nights. Not every stripper is that hot. Tough titties, lol...
Dirk, for reference, nearly everything BJ mentioned is exactly aligned with my experience of busy nightshifts. Which is not to say that your experience -- you haven't run into them -- is not valid. But I -- and I'm willing to guess, the majority of tuscl PLs who eschew nightshift -- run into all these things. Upcharging, break songs, lower quality dances than dayshift, etc., are unquestionably my experience of busy nightshifts.
I guess i misread or misunderstood or something. My understanding of it was that you implied negotiating price on quality of a dance beforehand (which i have never done, unless "additional" services were involved). You also seemed to imply that the boner had something to do with quality and with that more regarding that to the dancer's experience of it (not the PL's):
=> So many of the young guy party crowd guys already have a boner the moment you sit on their lap, so girls who only work busy night may not get the same lap dance experience as girls who really have to earn that boner. This is another area where you could negotiate price.
I thought it was strange that you described the different experience from the girl's perspective as if there should be a different price negotiated if a boner was "created" instead of already present. Hence, boner fee. Again, i guess i misread or misunderstood your implications. At the least it was a bit confusing section. What were you implying?
Nightshift girls deal with a younger party crowd that get a boner so easily, that the girls might conclude "cursory lapdance = boner = I did a great job"
Dayshift girls have to work hard for the same result, as the older crowd needs a heaping of competent sensuality to get hard. So for a dayshift girl. A dayshift girl who is looking for that boner as feedback on how great her dances are, has to be a lot more sensual and give much more skilled dances to get it.
After you posted those glistening and soapy photos - I’m thinking flags must be raised as soon as you start your stage sets!
As a customer I don't expect to have to pay extra to get an adequate dance (i.e. 2-way-contact) - nor do I like to commit to X # of dances ahead of time b/c I may not feel the dancer then I'm locked-in for X-dances - I def understand and accept a dancer opting for a better deal; and I also know and accept a dancer's time is valuable and why I'm cognizant not to waste/milk her time - if I agree to a dance w/ a dancer I always get at least 2 as to not waste her time per se; but wanna have the flexibility to end it at one if I'm not feeling her.
Also - pretty-much every club I've been to has a set dance-price - I don't pay over the set price per dance, if I wanna spend more-$$$ on her I get more dances and if I tip I don't agree to a tip ahead of time and tip post-dances depending on how the dances went.
In most-areas dances are $20+ for about 3-minutes which I think is decent $$$ - at this rate one is down min $60 for about 10-minutes of entertainment.
I accept a dancer not wanting my offer of paying the basic dance-price; she can pass on my offer and I can pass on her - I also accept her stating *upfront* she charges more although I won't pay-it and pass; but I will not accept her telling me after the fact/dances that she charges more than the basic dance-price - IMO that is being a ROB - if a dancer wants to charge more than the going-rate she needs to state that upfront b/c the club has a set price for a reason - the instances a dancer has tried to upcharge me post-dances I have not paid the upcharge and also there goes any possible tip; but many inexperienced SCers are often easily-intimidated and pay-up.
What you're saying is all true. It takes more effort (skill, talents, mileage) to procure a boner in an older man. The older crowd prefers day shift for numerous reasons. Again, the negotiating thing amongst all this lost me though. Discount then, during busy night shifts? Cashman and i can only dream. You do continue to impress, however, including your fluency in Bj99 ;)
ooh, na-na, look what i done started...
I often get from the Fri+Sat dancers: “you look like a Tuesday guy” or “you look like a Thursday guy.” And most will quote their schedule and have me read it back to them after I pay them.
I appreciate you taking the time to research, ponder, and write this post. Yeah, I’m overlooking the obvious.
I totally get the arousal thing — I hesitate to use the @b’ word, since it’s been co-opted by the trolls — because a weekday night or day shift girl is used to working more sensuality than a Fri night girl. So I totally get it! I think you’re pushing me over the edge, in more ways than one, lol. ;).
....I paid 400 to her at the club the other night (plus drinks + tip + cover), then 300 visiting her during the day twice....
I originally told her I might be able to come visit maybe once every other week....LOL so its up to her to make some money dancing now or find another OTC.....though she calls/texts me frequently and claims she doesn't have another OTC....I told her its ok...same as in the club I don't mind her dancing for other guys if she needs to.
Well, at least now we know that the Boner Fee is 50 cents per inch
I take this to mean that a guy w/ a pre-boner has already done part/most of the work for the dancer; i.e. she does not have to work at hard to turn him on thus pre-boner guy may not get the benefit of a dancer that is trying hard to turn him on since he's already there.
I'm wondering if that's the difference. Just hard for me to believe that anyone is hanging out with a stripper for a long period of time on a busy nightshift, without spending loads of $$$$$$, whereas it's pretty easy to get that on dayshift for an affordable price IME. But a guy who is just grabbing a girl for dances and then sending her on, no socialization, sure -- not as big a difference
In the clubs you've been in, does this tend to lead to front room makeout sessions?
SJG
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SJG
;)
Then when it is time for your own pants to come down, you invite her to the back room. Then take her home with you to continue.
Also, always best if you pick the girl and approach her yourself.
SJG
But I’m also a variety guy so walking away is fine with me if we don’t have a meeting of the minds. The longer I do this, the more it makes sense to be polite, direct and clear. One loses out on some opportunities but it doesn’t really cost me any fun to go in a different direction sometimes. I don’t blame a stripper or escort for trying to maximize her earnings and I don’t argue prices with them. But I also don’t feel the least bit bad about saying no.
Tell you the truth if you want to hear it, first rule of sales is be good to your customers, that will build loyalty. If you overcharge it might make some fast money but if you maintain loyal customers, you’ll always make a good living.
I use an email coupon for free cover charge. I arrive between 10 and 12 midnight on a Friday night.
I order a whiskey and have the waitress break some 20s into 5s and 1s for tipping with my drink. Usually after a couple sips, a dancer will stop by and ask to sit. Often with her I just not feeling it and let her go around 10 minutes or when she asks for dances and I decline. Another dancer stops down, I go up to one on the floor, or one on stage catches my eye. We have a nice flirty conversation, after about 5-10 minutes, I tell her I’m enjoying the conversation, and tip her a $5.
The convo with some groping from both of us will go on for 40 minutes to an hour. If she’s really entertaining, I’ll tip her another $5 along the way. She may go up on stage or maybe we’ll go back for dances after the hour. I’ll buy a couple dances. I’ll stop at only 1 dance though if it’s not that good. I might buy 4 if she’s out of this world. I’ll apply the Chili Palmer tip schedule at the end of the dances.
At this point it’s probably 11 or 1 and I’ve lost my table. So I’ll find another table, go out to the smoking patio, or sit at the stage. I’ll order another drink or two. I may watch a tip a few stage sets of maybe show interest in one of the dancers. If not, then one who’s walked the floor or out on that patio has. I’ll sit down with a new dancer. We’ll take for upwards of 90 minutes, tipping her $5 along the way if I’m enjoying it. Then do a couple dances with her.
By now it’s been about 2 hours, spent about an hour each with two dancers, stuffed some singles into Bubble’s g-string, got my lap dances, and I should start to think about heading back home. It’s complicated with the Mrs. I’ve cleared my head, motivated me, so in the morning I should hit the ground running and work my ass off / bust my ass. That’s why I club.
That's good to know. I struggle with rationalizing the VIP rates these days on my budget.
@BJ99 posted, "This could affect mileage too."
I've not found that it has affected mileage. For me, it's same shit, different night. So, I'm not sure if I get *good* Fri night service, or the *lousy* Tues/Thurs service, or maybe something in between? You guys seem adamant so maybe I'm doing it rong.
That creates a feel snags for me that aren't really snags but have a certain cost to them.
(1) a recon visit like that costs at least $50, no? That eats into the budget for the second trip.
(2) I got to then deal with the wife as to why I'm going back out so soon for a second trip, and why if I met her why am I meeting her again so soon. To cut short, I've either (2.1) got to put her in a box and sit on her (2.2) or white lie and keep the trip on the down low. I tend to go with option 2.1, not a big deal, but it's mildly annoying. Ditto if I stay out all hours of the night for 5 hours with another woman, like I used to.
(3) I may run out of money.
Lately, like I've been cutting back expenses on what I spend on her -- suggestions from my budget thread a few months back -- , spending more on me since I'm the one working, coming and going more as a please, and not putting up with her shit. It's not a big deal. That's why now I suddenly open to the ideas of weekday afternoon clubbing, and even getting sex or at least 2 way contact out of the strippers. Though I do keep to @Meat72's suggestion of staying out of the VIP (or hotels) until I'm meeting my financial goals.
The big question is--Who do you adjust/let know your schedule?? Some guy spends $60, are you gonna even waste your time telling him your schedule or coming in just for him?? Or how about a modest but consistent, respectable regular at $120 that you've seen 4 times over 3 months??
Any way, what I got out of Bj99’s subject is that old guys are starting to throw their cash around a little quicker, and will likely do more of that in the near future. They’re going to live like no tomorrow, so if you want to compete with those old fuckers, you may not want to waste your time and throw a little extra cheese when you can for repeat business.
Some of us will be shit out of luck before our turn.
A dancer and a customer can come to whatever arrangement they want but a dancer asking for more per dance when she’s busy is the equivalent of me asking for a reduced rate when she’s slow IMO. I wouldn’t do it to a girl because it just seems like a bad way to start off and that’s the way I take it when it’s asked of me.
Many of the girls who charge more aren’t even trying to make more off dances. They are also looking for whales who will pay rediculous amounts for vips. The girls who adapt this strategy save a lot of energy, but make around the same, or more, as the girls who do dances all night long. They do have to deal w more complicated negotiating that can border on ROB behavior.
If you can see things from a dancer’s perspective, then how can you expect them to see things from yours? I’m just trying to tell you what I saw and experienced. Take of it what you want.
With a strip club - more customers wanting more dances with a particular dancer creates increased demand. That demand - in a non-fixed price economy - will push prices up.
Over a lengthy period of time - after resources shift - and supply increases - an oversupply may occur (and a price drop). But - the initial effect is higher demand = higher marginal prices.
You are only capable of seeing it from your own side.
The end result is room with some guys waiting until a dancer agrees to dance for only $1. Then then next guy will, but only if a free extras are thrown in for that dollar, etc.
Some girls frustrated when not selling dances will just keep dropping prices until the guy says yes. Not sure that’s healthy or sustainable or smart for her.
If each dancer was to set her own price - whether low or high - it would be impossible to enforce. If you couple a dancer’s own price with a premium for prime time - and a discount for slow times - it would be even worse.
If a customer stalls, he knows that song the DJ just played is gone forever and she can’t sell it. It’s sunk. She made $0. But he thinks, if she’ll agree to accept something above zero, then she’s at least made more than she would have otherwise.
I think that’s partly how the price predatory guys see it. She’ll accept my offer other wise she’ll get nothing. If she does that enough, she can scrape together a living.
Rick is the master of exploiting that with his “rent day” OTC and back to school OTC and Christmas presents are needed OTC. She only has a certain number of shifts to due OTC if she’s cash strapped and deadlines are approaching fast.
I was always interested in the supposed value of day shift. Like a dance is $20 and 3 minutes long. Like do the prices suddently drop? Or are the songs suddenly 5 minutes long? What exactly are you getting out of it? Other than they sit and talk longer uncompensated or for smaller tips than Fri nights. Bj’s more denial dances explain it. Subra’s sit and talk for 5 hours uncompensated explains it.
I used to like day shift because the dancers would sit and talk for longer in between asking for dances. I liked this because the money would fly out of my wallet at a slower rate, so I could stay longer. Then eventually I just started paying for convo, tipping a $20, and noticing that she stayed longer than if I bought a $20 dance.
Bj also makes a good point about minimum prices. If a stripper can’t convince enough guys to buy dances at that price, maybe she shouldn’t be there.
In a high demand environment (night shift) to maximize earnings, a dancer cannot waste time with single dances where she will lose the opportunity to cash in on the song prior to the dance and the song after the dance. Her response is to either lock in a higher price for single dance or do a 2 or 3 song minimum. She can’t chill with you at your table either.
In a low demand environment, she will maximize her earnings by giving steady service to someone who will be more stable and reliable. In exchange, she’ll charge the basic rate, or a discounted bulk rate or provide ‘more’ to keep the steady revenue coming.
TLDR - high demand = high hustle maximizes earnings. Low demand = steady value maximizes earnings. As a customer, you can choose in which environment you’d like to spend your money. Now that she’s told you what motivates her, you can use that to your own advantage.
My current strategy is to charge the min rate, but to include the between songs, unless they are very short. I think this is the sweet spot for quality and price increase, since my dances are good, and I’ll be able to use my skills, along w the crowd to make a pretty good amount. It’s no different outcome for me than charging double per song, but the customer gets more songs overall. It also requires the least thinking for the guy. I’m telling any interested customer my day schedule, and my day vip rate.
Don't do it twentyfive! She'll hit you with the boner fee after, and you'll owe an extra $1.50
Also with the first and last songs around a single dance being throwaway, explains to me why some clubs and dancers push a 3/100 or 3/60 price.
I’m really not sure why I think that number is interesting - lol.
Maybe it’s because with tip it’s about $80-100. So maybe it’s a reasonable base rate - that allows for a decent tip too?
She wouldn't care about the risk because she's making so much money. Another reason to avoid busy night shifts.
Meant to say "SKIP-songs are not meant to be lap-dance songs"
Seems for some dancers their hustle is to give a minimal mileage first-dance to leave the PL wanting for more- I'm sure this often works w/ newbs - but as for me that is the quickest way to forgo my busine$$ - i.e. you give me a lame first-dance and it's not only one-and-done but forget about getting any more biz from me in the future - if I pay full-price for a song i expect full-effort; else you are just taking my $$$
I also agree, that what a dancer spends in time "waiting" for a full song, or the time she spends that cuts into the next song for whatever reason is not the PL's problem, essentially spending 3 songs on one dance for the PLs that get just one dance. If the dancer can't sell multiple dances, it's on her.
Damn - that gave me a hard-on
In the context of this thread, we are referring to "skip songs" - I take these to mean when the DJ starts playing a song while the next-girl hasn't made it to the main-stage yet but then he restarts the song once the new-girl is on the main-stage - and it can be all over the place from 15-seconds to 2-minutes but it's not meant to be a lap-dance song, just playing some music till the next-girl makes it on stage - this phenomenon does not occur in most clubs but it does in some clubs - I think the DJ should announce it's a skip-song then announce once he starts playing the regular-song b/c too-many newbs get charged for the skip-song even if it's short, happened to me *once* as a newb and as a newb I paid but never got dances from that dancer again.
Buying Dances is a Chump's Game.
SJG
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I certainly don't expect a dancer to lower their price. I'll get a dance at the advertised price. Whether that is a 2 for 1 or whatever should be none of your concern. Your only concern should be to give quality customer service (i.e a quality dance). I haven't experienced much of this but from what I've heard, a lot of patrons get ripped off on quality. Just don't upcharge. If you get a patron ask for a dance and you think he'll only grab 1 (and thus a waste of time or whatever), then it's up to you if you want to go with him or maybe scout out a whale during a crowded day
"^There will be come a point of diminishing returns, club can only have so many people at one time."
This is true and one day, all of those whales are going to run out (older generation) and the newer generation won't be so willing to hang around SCs due to their poor experiences and customer service. Some other industry might take over in the future is all I'm saying. This is where I run my point on dancers relying on whales is just poor customer service. I see a dancer when I enter a SC and she'll be on her phone the whole shift just waiting for her regular or scouting out a whale. Now imagine seeing 5 dancers doing the same exact thing the same shift (and this is on a day where it's relatively packed). There's having no hustle and then there's "you should just go home cause you aren't dancing"
1. Some dancers charge more because it is proven that they are worth it. PLs keep her busy at the up charge. I don't see anything wrong with that so long as it is agreed upon up front.
2. I almost always get multiple dances but don't commit beforehand, that is a chump's game.
3. Boner Fees are wrong. I wouldn't pay it.
4. It isn't just young guys that enter the lap dance area ready to go. :-)
5. I generally tip a dancer simply because I realize it may be a little more difficult to provide a good dance to a guy like me.